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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:46 pm 
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No offense to Luke or anyone here, but I think something people are failing to understand is that this site is outdated. The coding and the layout need to be streamlined and updated if the search results are to be optimized for Google's current algorithms.

For example, many search engines (like Google) have issues with pages that have more than 100 urls and will simply ignore them; this site has 366! Google also recommends 4-8 keywords within the quality guidelines, and this site has over 70! These are just a few of many issues outlined in Google's quality guidelines that need to be put into consideration, and these are the kinds of issues that can prevent search engines from processing the sites properly. It's very likely that this site has been in violation of the quality guidelines for quite some time, but was only recently flagged for penalties. Times and processes are changing and this site needs to be revamped and recoded if it's going to survive.

This is only a suggestion of course, but here's a quick look at a layout that may be more productive for the site (once again, the number of links need to be cut down).

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/ ... mple01.png

I also want to stress that Google is not in the business of telling people how to climb up the search ladder, it's only an engine. That is why they only issue their quality guidelines and won't specifically point things out. If one has trouble understanding the guidelines and how to apply them, it's probably best to look for outside help.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:28 am 
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enigmawing wrote:
I also want to stress that Google is not in the business of telling people how to climb up the search ladder, it's only an engine. That is why they only issue their quality guidelines and won't specifically point things out. If one has trouble understanding the guidelines and how to apply them, it's probably best to look for outside help.


I appreciate your feedback and much of what you say is completely on the money. However, I'm not looking to climb up the search ladder or to get better rankings from Google. Search engine optimization is one of the least interesting aspects of web publishing I can think of. All I want and need is to rank where we deserve to be and where we would be without the penalty we have received. There are obviously much more streamlined and better-coded sites out there. That cannot be the top criteria for what people decide would be the best result to their queries.

In case it's not clear, this is not about not ranking as highly as I think we should. This is about not ranking as highly as we should. Google's algorithms perform the magic like always, and in the split-second before results are returned, our penalty is put into effect, sending us down to Page 4, 5, 6, or whatever. Read up on "minus 50", "minus 40", etc., penalties for more on this.

It is unconscionable that a penalty could be instantly applied to a site that for over a decade has existed and has been referred to as one of the most reliable sources for thousands, if not millions of search terms, without clarifying the source of penalty and allowing an opportunity to correct it. Current estimates place Google's net worth around $190 billion. Is there really not anything in there to cover salaries of some people who could humanly address situations like this, which -- forget about the life being ruined (why would they care about that?) -- are negatively affecting the very thing the company is founded upon: returning the most accurate results for web searches?! There are obviously subjects much more important than the ones we cover here, but I can't think of anything more significant to the very image of Google than the issue at large.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:42 am 
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I understand your frustration with Google, and I also understand you only want to fall into your natural ranking on the search and are not trying to cheat the system. The hard fact of the matter is that Google doesn't care. The same penalties are set on everyone flagged that doesn't follow their current standards no matter what great history they may have on the net.

You can continue to focus on how you're being wronged by Google and likely have to close down the site, or you can focus on what you need to do in order to bring things up to date, like starting with the basic details I previously listed. I'll agree that search engine optimization is one of the least interesting aspects of web publishing, but it's pretty necessary in this situation.

It's unfortunate that they've set this situation upon you but it seems you still have ample opportunity to straighten things out; a simple free analyzer points out several issues that search engines such as Google would have with your site that you've yet to address.

I wish you luck; I know this site is your livelihood and has been an important online destination to many of us here. I've been around 7-8 years myself and would hate to see anything happen to it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:35 am 
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The formatting of the page shouldn't really matter - there's plenty of text only or minimal HTML pages/sites that do well enough on Google. Google are primarily interested in the content of a page, and UD/DVD has lots of content. It's really not in their interest to filter out "amateur" pages and if they are, it's something which hasn't been reported and is a worrying trend if true. Google has been a supporter of personal, non-commercial sites for a long time.

As for number of links, I agree Google states this, but again it doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule, especially if the majority of the links are internal to the site - our own site Crash.Net has over the Google Recommended link count on the majority of its pages, but its still pretty high-up for most searches. The main thing Google doesn't want is page after page of endless links linking to external pages/sites - it views these as link farms.

It's possible due to the twin-domain issue somehow Google is picking up on old links/new links and they are cross-domain and Google is thinking the site is a link farm, but in a few quick experiments I've been unable to reproduce that behavior on my browser.

I'm not sure how the site handles the twin domains internally but if it uses temporary redirects it needs to set them to permanent.

Luke you say you have webmaster tools - can you see if Google is at least still spidering your pages as frequently as before? If so, at least there's still hope that they will pick up changes soon after they are made.

I know this is going to sound like a lot of work, but I'm really thinking if you wouldn't be better moving to a [free?] content management system for the site. This would result in all new urls apart from the home page and forum pages, so you need to use webmaster tools to find the most common landing pages and make sure you have these in place, even if only with a standard "The site has been redesigned and this page can now be found here" type message. That way you will keep some of your existing Google page ranks.

edit I've just had another idea. Google has been known to link sites together which share the same IP address blocks. I think you should see if you can find out what other sites are being hosted on your ISP - in particular if any other sites are being hosted on the same server. If one of these was doing a major, major violation of Googles best practices, it could have affected your site.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:34 pm 
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As far as I know, the two domains are the only ones on the site's IP address. As for Google spidering pages, Crawl Stats show a sharp decline in the number of pages being crawled per day recently versus even post-penalty March, April, and early May. The most recent cache of the front page is June 10 and forum is June 8, which further demonstrates both how we've been downgraded and how Google isn't doing a good job at bringing our content to their searchers. Almost all of the redirects we have in place here are permanent ones done by 301/.htaccess. I appreciate your comments and sentiments!

If Google was to say "The two domains are an issue", I'd gladly move the UD remnants over to DVDizzy but that is probably weeks worth of work (if not more), quite a bit of time to devote to a "maybe."

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Luke wrote:
As far as I know, the two domains are the only ones on the site's IP address. As for Google spidering pages, Crawl Stats show a sharp decline in the number of pages being crawled per day recently versus even post-penalty March, April, and early May. The most recent cache of the front page is June 10 and forum is June 8, which further demonstrates both how we've been downgraded and how Google isn't doing a good job at bringing our content to their searchers. Almost all of the redirects we have in place here are permanent ones done by 301/.htaccess. I appreciate your comments and sentiments!

If Google was to say "The two domains are an issue", I'd gladly move the UD remnants over to DVDizzy but that is probably weeks worth of work (if not more), quite a bit of time to devote to a "maybe."


Although...in my opinion it's worth a shot...I know it's a lot of time to devote too....and I can imagine if it didn't work it'd be so infuriating....Maybe I'm asking a dumb question....but is there a way to contact google via the telephone? Google Customer Service perhaps? I call disney movie rewards by phone and I get a quicker result than emailing them

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:21 pm 
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I know absolutely ZERO about search engines, site ranking, web design or any of the stuff you've been talking about... but enigmawing's explanation seems reasonable to me. It also seems like something that can be fixed relatively easily. So what's the harm in trying that, instead of denying she might be right?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
I know absolutely ZERO about search engines, site ranking, web design or any of the stuff you've been talking about... but enigmawing's explanation seems reasonable to me. It also seems like something that can be fixed relatively easily. So what's the harm in trying that, instead of denying she might be right?


Luke is probably very very very depressed.....and I probably have no idea how hard Luke's job is....although I do agree in trying to do a maybe...because if nothing is done then the maybe won't work at all...

Someone once told me....If you Don't try....you've already lost....maybe Aaaron or Kelvin or CJ or pinkrenata could help you Luke...throw their ideas together...maybe have a staff meeting...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:31 pm 
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I must agree...

Luke, it may take a lot of time to try...but if this is your life's work, what is a few weeks, or a year, spent making the site better, even for a maybe? You don't want it to end, so try, try, try to stop it! Don't just do nothing and give up!

Besides, from the sound of it, it will at least still be an improvement that makes the site better, even if it's not something noticeable to people who just go here for info and fun!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:34 pm 
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I don't want to get too personal here, but there's something many people have failed to grasp about this situation. Luke is a full-time, self-employed journalist. He is an extremely talented writer who, rather than work for a newspaper, magazine, or online publication, found that he was able to make a modest living off of publishing his own work (site reviews, articles, interviews, you name it). This site is his job, a task on which he spends well over 40 hours a week. What is he going through right now is similar to if somebody loses a job EXCEPT he has been working harder than ever these past few months, trying to continue to provide new and unique content AND to find ways to solve this issue. Obviously the site means a lot more to Luke than a paycheck. If it didn't, he would have already given up by now and have found work elsewhere.

I hope I'm not giving the impression that Luke is looking to site visitors for financial support or anything like that. That's definitely not the case. The cost of the website or the forum really hasn't a thing to do with anything. The time spent for nothing is the real cost.

Also, keep in mind that studios have been sending Luke more product than ever. It is his responsibility to make sure that the site covers those titles. If he puts those reviews on hold and spends copious amounts of time making changes to the site that have only a slight chance of fixing the problem, he will find himself very behind and in the bad graces of a number of studios.

Anyway, I'm not expert either, but this mess is a bit more complicated than many realize.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:57 pm 
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Oh, and I forgot to say thank you for continuing to share the article. It is my hope that by spreading the word, we can get Google to pay attention and own up to what they've done. Maybe, maybe not.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:25 pm 
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I hope I haven't come off as condescending here; I've understood from the get-go that this is Luke's full-time job and life's work, and that the site is indeed far more important to him than any paycheck. I was merely suggesting that changes need to be made in order to get back on the right track with Google. Something I was trying to get at was that if he doesn't have the time or isn't capable of making the changes for whatever reason, perhaps he could use some help.

I also hope it goes without saying that the site is very important to me as well. If a main concern is the amount of time dedicated to making the coding changes, it's something my husband has experience with and is willing to lend a hand with free of charge.

Luke, if you are interested in discussing any options with my husband, please contact me through my registered email. Once again, he is willing to help out in this case free of charge.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:38 pm 
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I found a few pages I wonder if they are helpful but i'll post them anyway l.......and I'm sure if there was an easy way to fix this it would already be fixed.... and couldn't there be a staff meeting between all the mods, reviewers etc via the internet on just shooting some suggestions and toss around ideas...though that has probably been done already

http://www.google.com/contact/


http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmasters/

and here I found a list of Google Companies throughout the usa that has some phone numbers....sometimes talking to a person is better than emailing and get a computerized reply....In my Humble Opinion

http://www.google.com/intl/en/about/cor ... dress.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:35 pm 
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@ pinkrenata & Luke: I didn't mean to make it sound like this was just a 'small' problem; I realize this site is Luke's work and is providing him with a living and he works very hard at it. I'm sorry if my remarks came off the wrong way.

I just think enigmawing makes a lot of sense. If Luke doesn't have the time to adjust his site to Google's demands, maybe he can get others to help? I think the offer from enigma's husband is very generous. I would offer my help, if I didn't know for sure it would torpedo the entire site, since I'm clueless when it comes to computing. :P


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:15 pm 
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So... dvdizzy is going down the drain and this thread just dies after 4 pages and sinks back to the second page? Wow.

I've been reading back and a bit and I just wanted to say that I don't understand why Luke and the other mods are so defensive whenever people offer help or tips. You'd think advice was welcomed, but it seems to me Luke has already made up his mind that Google is the only problem. Like I said before: I don't understand much about this abracadabra, but I've read some of Google's guidelines to which another member was referring and it's true that it states a site can only have a limited number of keywords and url's and dvdizzy has surpassed those by quite a lot. This has been said before and the mods have blown it off by saying "it was never a problem before". That may be, but it seems to be a problem *now*. Things change, maybe Google didn't pay much attention before, but they are now.

So you can either be stubborn and blame Google (but they don't care where your site turns up among the search results), or you can do something about it. As I understand it, right now, you're choosing to do nothing. I'm sorry, but writing novel-lenght posts about how you've been wronged by Google and passing it around on the internet is not going to help move Google even an inch. This may sound harsh (my trademark!), but it's only the truth.

I understand it takes a lot of time to make all those changes and mods have said Luke doesn't have the time to do it, because he's writing reviews and articles and stuff for a living. That's true, but there's more to a site than writing content. It also involved site maintanance. As I've understood it, dvdizzy is not very up-to-date and needs a lot of work done. People have offered you help, Luke, and if you want the site to survive, as it is providing your daily bread, you'd better accept it, even if it comes from 'outsiders'.

I'll admit this post is made partly in my own self-interest. I always use dvdizzy as my source of information for Disney dvd's. I always enjoy the reviews and I get a lot of information about the different editions and bonus features there that I don't find elsewhere (or at least not as reliable as dvdizzy). But that's just what you want, Luke: for people to visit your site. So if you want people to keep finding the site, it needs to be worked on. "Easy for you to say", you'll think. And you're right. It *is* easy for me to say. So you can get angry with me or defensive, but I don't care (you know I don't). Or you can see this long-ass post of mine as a sign of support and start working on meeting Google's criteria.

Take care.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
So... dvdizzy is going down the drain and this thread just dies after 4 pages and sinks back to the second page? Wow.

I've been reading back and a bit and I just wanted to say that I don't understand why Luke and the other mods are so defensive whenever people offer help or tips. You'd think advice was welcomed, but it seems to me Luke has already made up his mind that Google is the only problem. Like I said before: I don't understand much about this abracadabra, but I've read some of Google's guidelines to which another member was referring and it's true that it states a site can only have a limited number of keywords and url's and dvdizzy has surpassed those by quite a lot. This has been said before and the mods have blown it off by saying "it was never a problem before". That may be, but it seems to be a problem *now*. Things change, maybe Google didn't pay much attention before, but they are now.

So you can either be stubborn and blame Google (but they don't care where your site turns up among the search results), or you can do something about it. As I understand it, right now, you're choosing to do nothing. I'm sorry, but writing novel-lenght posts about how you've been wronged by Google and passing it around on the internet is not going to help move Google even an inch. This may sound harsh (my trademark!), but it's only the truth.

I understand it takes a lot of time to make all those changes and mods have said Luke doesn't have the time to do it, because he's writing reviews and articles and stuff for a living. That's true, but there's more to a site than writing content. It also involved site maintanance. As I've understood it, dvdizzy is not very up-to-date and needs a lot of work done. People have offered you help, Luke, and if you want the site to survive, as it is providing your daily bread, you'd better accept it, even if it comes from 'outsiders'.

I'll admit this post is made partly in my own self-interest. I always use dvdizzy as my source of information for Disney dvd's. I always enjoy the reviews and I get a lot of information about the different editions and bonus features there that I don't find elsewhere (or at least not as reliable as dvdizzy). But that's just what you want, Luke: for people to visit your site. So if you want people to keep finding the site, it needs to be worked on. "Easy for you to say", you'll think. And you're right. It *is* easy for me to say. So you can get angry with me or defensive, but I don't care (you know I don't). Or you can see this long-ass post of mine as a sign of support and start working on meeting Google's criteria.

Take care.



I....respectively agree with Goliath and Luke I hope this doesn't come off as rude..maybe it's tough love perhaps...anyway......You have to try Luke, ...think of it...in 10 years from now will you think to yourself I am so glad I didn't even try to modify the site and......or most likely you'll be asking your self in many years you'll have that feeling of...what if I tried....if you try you might succeed. If you don't try....you've already lost....


This song has helped me in very very tough times....times when I thought about suicide of my severe.....when I was 19.......I proposed to my girlfriend and she accepted a couple months back.....If someone would have told me when I was 19 that what in my personal life would happen in 2010 and 2011 I would have said yeah and I'm the King of Spain...Unless you are tired of the site...maybe it's hard to maintain it a lot....perhaps someone else could take over for a while......I mean no disrespect toward you Luke.......and I probably don't know a diddly squat about these things...I just thought I'd share my two cents...


Here's the song

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ftXVY1jZSzs" frameborder="0"></iframe>

and then there's this song from Disney
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hZYZVHH98nI" frameborder="0"></iframe>

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:33 pm 
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I've hung back from posting in this thread because I don't have anything helpful to contribute to it. All I can do is wish luck to Luke and tell people "Farewell in advance. I hope I find some of you in other forums and communities. I'll keep browsing your little corner of deviantART, enigmawing."

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:40 pm 
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I haven't really been around as much as others, I actually lurk more than I post, but I don't want to come off like I don't care about the site but it's a sad fact that eventually all message boards or websites come to an end for any number of reasons. Don't worry, everyone can all reunite on another site I've had to do this before.

Enigmawing's suggestions really need to be taken seriously though if you want to keep things going, good luck.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:19 pm 
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WonderlandFever wrote:


Enigmawing's suggestions really need to be taken seriously though if you want to keep things going, good luck.


I second that.....

Also....I think if the site should go down....I'll go to Micechat could someone pm me some suggestions....I hope it doesn't go away.....but I want to know where I can find some of you on another forum if the worst should happen to this site..

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:40 pm 
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No, not all web sites come to an end! Disney.com is still up! Yea, that's a company site but still, not all web sites "have to end"!

Anyway...I want to aplaud Goliath for saying what he did. I am not saying that he is right, because I don't know if he is, what I am saying is that I think it takes courage to speak your mind like that and even if he didn't know how to do something, he was trying to do something, trying to say sonething that will make someone save the site, and it was brave.

:clap:

I also hate to add to some drama, but I have to say this because I got hurt by something Luke said. I didn't like how Luke wrote:

Quote:
There were some readers who didn't like the change, feeling that tuning out content they didn't care about was too much to ask of them while giving them detailed, high quality articles at the most reasonable price of free. Others were more excited.


Luke, that statement was an assumption of how we felt, and a negative one as well, making us seem like we couldn't do the simple task of ignoring something we didn't have interest in, when that was not the case for all of us, if any of us. I can't speak for everyone, but I know the issue that I and others had was not the one you claimed. It wasn't that we couldn't tune out content we didn't like. It was that Ultimate Disney was becoming something else. When it became DVDizzy, I felt better because then I saw that you meant the site to be something else, but at first, the change was bad because it was called Ultimate Disney and yet you were reviewing the works of rival studios like Dreamworks and such! It wasn't that we didn't have interest in those things, it's just that those things weren't Disney, when, at the time, it was meant to be, and called, a Disney site, and an Ultimate one at that.

I had to get that off my chest. I completely forgive what happened, but I just felt hurt by the comment and held my feelings till now. I would hope you would re-write that part in your article, though, Luke, if you would please to make us feel better.

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