Alan Menken News & Discussion

All topics relating to Disney-branded content.
Post Reply
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by estefan »

Again, his replacement is Ropert Lopez, who is a fantastic Broadway composer, somebody I'm sure Menken has the utmost respect for and Lopez has the utmost respect for Menken. In the end, Lopez is going to write some phenomenal songs and that's all that matters. What ultimately appears in the final cut of the film.

Now, if he was replaced by Justin Bieber or the folks who wrote those High School Musical songs. THEN I would be just as annoyed as the rest of you.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
User avatar
DisneyJedi
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by DisneyJedi »

Is it wrong of me to claim that John Lasseter may be turning into an arrogant pretentious jerk? :x
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by estefan »

Kind of, since you haven't even met the man.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
User avatar
DisneyJedi
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by DisneyJedi »

In all honesty, I've never met the man, but now I'm getting the feeling that I should hate him already.

Nevertheless, I don't care what he says when/if I manage to pitch my crossover trilogy to Disney. I'm going to DEMAND that two things be done for it.

1) The animated portion of the films (about 75-85% of the movies) be done in hand-drawn animation.

2) Alan Menken (with Stephen Schwartz as lyricist) doing the music!

So when/if it happens, it either be my way or the highway. :p
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by estefan »

I'm of the opinion you shouldn't hate somebody who haven't met (unless it's a murderer).

I dislike a lot of the decisions made by David Stainton during his tenure as Disney Animation Head, but not having met him, I can't say I hate him.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
User avatar
Disney's Divinity
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 15767
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
Gender: Male

Post by Disney's Divinity »

I think it’s fine to dislike someone for the job they do or the role they play, but not for the person they are, since we don’t know anything about these people personally.
estefan wrote:Again, his replacement is Ropert Lopez, who is a fantastic Broadway composer, somebody I'm sure Menken has the utmost respect for and Lopez has the utmost respect for Menken. In the end, Lopez is going to write some phenomenal songs and that's all that matters.
Except we aren't just talking about Frozen (although I do think having one award-winning musical-writer on a project before shoving them off for another is disrespectful by itself), but more of the sum of Disney's behavior toward Menken starting with TP&TF. There are apparently one or more musicals in the pipe line after Frozen, none of which Disney has even considered contacting Menken for--for no particular reason why.

But I suppose it's excusable since he's hardly the first employee at Disney or Pixar to be treated disrespectfully. I do hope he'll find work outside of Disney, since he apparently doesn't have Lasseter's seal of approval. Not the first to work with Dreamworks either, I'm sure.
Image
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
User avatar
disneyprincess11
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4363
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:46 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Post by disneyprincess11 »

Disney's Divinity wrote:There are apparently one or more musicals in the pipe line after Frozen, none of which Disney has even considered contacting Menken for--for no particular reason why.

But I suppose it's excusable since he's hardly the first employee at Disney or Pixar to be treated disrespectfully. I do hope he'll find work outside of Disney, since he apparently doesn't have Lasseter's seal of approval. Not the first to work with Dreamworks either, I'm sure.
2 things:

1. I think you know this, but Stephen Schwartz was supposed to do the songs for Mulan. He tried to do both that AND Dreamworks movie, Prince of Egypt. Disney got pissed off that he was doing a non-Disney animated musical and made him choose between PoE and Mulan. Obivously, he chose Poe and got fired. So, obviously Menken is not the first to work with Dreamworks.
2. How does anyone know that Lassenter hasn't called Menken about the next few musicals? They could be squaring deals with him right now or they could be thinking about him, and we wouldn't know.
Last edited by disneyprincess11 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
DisneyAnimation88
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:00 am

Post by DisneyAnimation88 »

Disney's Divinity wrote:There are apparently one or more musicals in the pipe line after Frozen, none of which Disney has even considered contacting Menken for--for no particular reason why.
Maybe they just want to work with some different composers? Out of interest, what are the musicals in the pipeline? I haven't been on the forum a lot lately so the only films I know of beyond Frozen are Big Hero 6 and Ron Clements and John Musker's film set in the South Pacific.
DisneyJedi wrote:Nevertheless, I don't care what he says when/if I manage to pitch my crossover trilogy to Disney. I'm going to DEMAND that two things be done for it.
Go in to Disney with a list of demands and you will be on the highway. Have you looked into applying for jobs at WDAS; the company policy was that they don't accept any pitches from anyone outside the studio; unless that's changed (it used to be on one of corporate websites but I'm not sure if it still is), you would have to get a job and some experience there before you could pitch your idea.
We're not going to Guam, are we?
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by estefan »

Disney's Divinity wrote: But I suppose it's excusable since he's hardly the first employee at Disney or Pixar to be treated disrespectfully.
Since none of us work in the Hat Building (that I know of), I don't know if we can say Disney or Lasseter is being disrespectful towards Menken. We don't know if they said to Menken "Get out of the building!" or "We respect the work you've done on Frozen, but we would like to go for a different composer on this project."

Plus, Disney is not the only studio to change somebody for a different personnel. This happens on every single film, sometimes even at the last minute. Do you have any idea how many screenwriters have their hand in one big movie, with most not even getting a credit? Then there are films with revolving doors of directors that pass through and ultimately don't work out, for a variety of reasons. In animation, it's especially frequent the amount of directors who are replaced on a project. Some examples include Gary Trousdale on Kung Fu Panda, Richard Purdum on Beauty and the Beast, George Scribner on The Lion King or, to use a more recent example, the many directors who were at one point set to helm Hotel Transylvania.

Now, of course, there have been those who were pushed off a film in a rather disrespectful way, like Brenda Chapman on Brave (though, the final cut is apparently very close to her original vision). However, there are also those where the the director or writer or songwriter just isn't working. There were the many horror stories about The Emperor's New Groove production and how the executives kept messing with the movie to the point of Roger Allers being fired. But, upon watching The Sweatbox (which Disney didn't officially release, due to how they were apparently poorly-portrayed), the suggestions given and the problems felt by Peter Schneider and Thomas Schumacher all sounded completely reasonable and understandable. And Roger Allers apparently left by his own decision (if The Sweatbox is to be believed).

In the end, unless we find complete information, we have no idea how Alan Menken was treated by John Lasseter and/or Chris Buck, leading up to or upon the decision to go with Robert Lopez instead.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
User avatar
Disney's Divinity
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 15767
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
Gender: Male

Post by Disney's Divinity »

estefan wrote:Since none of us work in the Hat Building (that I know of), I don't know if we can say Disney or Lasseter is being disrespectful towards Menken. We don't know if they said to Menken "Get out of the building!"
Exclamation marks are not required to be disrespectful. No need to exaggerate to discredit the point. It seems more that they've simply ignored him; shut him out without being direct about it.

And, yes, people have been treated more roughly by Disney which I acknowledged (although they are usually not the same people who have worked with them 6-7 times previously like Menken) and, yes, there's nothing wrong with them trying new composers, which I also already acknowledged--although, again, what purpose is there in getting a different composer for a project that's essentially the same as many others someone you've worked with for years has received awards for their work on? Yes, different composers create something uniquely their own, but it's not as if Robert Lopez is someone like Sondheim, who would give us noticeably different results to justify choosing someone different.
Image
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
User avatar
DisneyJedi
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:53 pm

Post by DisneyJedi »

To be honest, if Stephen Sondheim is still doing music, I'd like to see him do the music for an animated Disney movie.
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 19912
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Post by Sotiris »

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:I haven't been on the forum a lot lately so the only films I know of beyond Frozen are Big Hero 6 and Ron Clements and John Musker's film set in the South Pacific.
John Musker confirmed that their movie is going to be a musical. It is estimated for a 2015 or 2016 release.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage
DisneyAnimation88
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1088
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:00 am

Post by DisneyAnimation88 »

Sotiris wrote:John Musker confirmed that their movie is going to be a musical. It is estimated for a 2015 or 2016 release.
Thanks for the update. So presumably there's a possibility Menken could score this film? Unless there's been news to the contrary that I've missed.
We're not going to Guam, are we?
User avatar
Sotiris
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 19912
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:06 am
Gender: Male
Location: Fantasyland

Post by Sotiris »

DisneyAnimation88 wrote:So presumably there's a possibility Menken could score this film? Unless there's been news to the contrary that I've missed.
No but Menken in a very recent interview talked about his future projects and said that he didn't have any film projects for Disney. Considering that the songwriter is usually attached from very early on to a musical, it is improbable that Menken is working on it.
ImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
disneyprincess11
Diamond Edition
Posts: 4363
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:46 am
Location: Maryland, USA

Post by disneyprincess11 »

Sotiris wrote:No but Menken in a very recent interview talked about his future projects and said that he didn't have any film projects for Disney. Considering that the songwriter is usually attached from very early on to a musical, it is improbable that Menken is working on it.
Maybe they're still brainstorming ideas for the movie. So maybe after they get everything down, they'll choose the songwriter/music composer? Or maybe they're still choosing who it will be? Ron and Musker worked with Menken a lot. I can't imagine them, pushing him off. After all, he's part of the reason why TLM and Aladdin were successful.
User avatar
RyGuy
Special Edition
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:50 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Post by RyGuy »

I think there's something to be said for fresh talent sometimes as well. I watched "The Boys" not too long ago and didn't realize that the Sherman Brothers had pitched their soundtrack ideas for "The Little Mermaid" to Disney but ultimately Disney chose Ashman and Menken, who then became as iconic as the Sherman Brothers.

As much as I love the Sherman Brothers, it's hard to say whether their version of "The Little Mermaid" would have been as great as "Mary Poppins" or as banal as "The Tigger Movie."

I think the same can be said of Menken's ideas for "The Princess and the Frog" or "Frozen." We'll never know for sure (one decent song floating around out there doesn't necessarily mean they all would have been great).

I do think it's important to keep cultivating fresh talent and not just rely on what's tried and true. It's doubtful that Haley Mills or Dean Jones could sell a Disney picture these days.

Sometimes the risk taking pays off like using Elton John for the Lion King and sometimes no so much (such as using Sting for The Emperor's New Groove)

I wasn't super impressed with what Lopez did for Winnie the Pooh - it was OK, but "Book of Mormon" has left me intrigued to hear more from him.
User avatar
Disney's Divinity
Ultimate Collector's Edition
Posts: 15767
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:26 am
Gender: Male

Post by Disney's Divinity »

RyGuy wrote:I think there's something to be said for fresh talent sometimes as well. I watched "The Boys" not too long ago and didn't realize that the Sherman Brothers had pitched their soundtrack ideas for "The Little Mermaid" to Disney but ultimately Disney chose Ashman and Menken, who then became as iconic as the Sherman Brothers.
Really? I never knew that (which is why I asked about them earlier). That said, there is a bit of a difference considering the Menken/Ashman soundtrack is excellent, while the TP&TF soundtrack...not so much. It would be easier to imagine a different album in the latter's case.

(Although I would love to know what a Sherman Bros. The Little Mermaid would have been like).
Image
Listening to most often lately:
Ariana Grande ~ "we can't be friends (wait for your love)"
Ariana Grande ~ "imperfect for you"
Kacey Musgraves ~ "The Architect"
User avatar
RyGuy
Special Edition
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:50 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Post by RyGuy »

^Definitely agree with you about TPatF soundtrack . . . not one of my favorites. Your point is well taken :)
User avatar
thelittleursula
Anniversary Edition
Posts: 1235
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:15 am
Location: Europe

Post by thelittleursula »

I love the PaTF soundtrack but compared to the likes of say Little Mermaid it's not that great. It's good, but Disney has proven that they can do soooo, sooo, sooo, so much better.

Thanks to Alan and the late Howard Ashman of course.
User avatar
estefan
Platinum Edition
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by estefan »

I think I'm the only person on this forum who thinks the Princess and the Frog songs are fantastic. Then again, I'm a Randy Newman fan.
"There are two wolves and they are always fighting. One is darkness and despair. The other is light and hope. Which wolf wins? Whichever one you feed." - Casey Newton, Tomorrowland
Post Reply