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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Tangled wrote:
carolinakid wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
The runner-up was Aurora on that site, not Pocahontas. I think Aurora's should have one, but whatever.

But the comment about her "erect nipple", omg! Well, she was with a man who was as hot as her hair. I wonder if the animators...intended that little..feature...on her chest.



Duster,
Ariel, Pocahontas & Snow White were the ones listed on page 13 of the 12/10/10 issue of EW. I didn't check their website but are you saying they list a different result? I'll check it out. BTW, I think Aurora's hair is fabulous too!

OK, I checked the site and here's the entire list from hair don'ts to hair-dos!
10. Rapunzel
9. Snow White
8. Tiana
7. Cinderella
6. Mulan
5. Belle
4. Pocahontas
3. Jasmine
2. Aurora
1. Ariel


Ok, I get why Rapunzel was on the end if your list, but she had no choice really.Her hair never could be cut when it was long, and she was forced to have jagged, brown short hair when Flynn cut it. Also I don't get why people hate the looks of animated females with short hair (I I actually thought Cinderella and even Tiana were two of the prettiest princesses, and IMO, sorry for referencing a Dreamworks movie here, I thought Roxanne in Megamind was very pretty as well.)


While I like long-haired cartoon women myself, it doesn't mean I don't like short-haired women. Tiana looked nice, especially in her green dress. So did Ginormica from Monsters vs. Aliens.

As we've seen from the long-haired women, they open themselves up to a lot of cool ideas, like Ariel's "dinglehopper".


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Jackoleen wrote:
* Esmeralda: There's sooo much to like about Esmeralda that it's a crying shame that she was too shallow of a person to choose for a love interest the same person whom she said was "surprising". I've always disliked Esmeralda for her shallow, "normal", conformist personality,


Have you ever read the book? Pheobus is a self centered jerk who Esmerelda falls for but he doesn't love her back. He just uses her. It is a much darker story and really Disney should have left it alone. It is like talking Les Miserables and making it into a happy Disney musical. It just shouldn't be done...or if it is, it needs a whole new name and set of characters.

Jackoleen wrote:
* Jane Porter: I don't actually dislike Jane Porter herself, but her hair (the messy bun, frosted look) reminds me sooo much of the hair of rich, shallow women who sometimes frequent Disneyland (You know, the frosted, messy bun, the sunglasses, the tanned, muscular husband, and the three kids in tow?) that she seems to represent shallowness, although she herself is FAR from being shallow. I also dislike her decent into primality, because it reminds me of all that's primal, and all that's primal is the opposite of all that's civilized (Ie: Filth Vs. Cleanliness, Hormonal Mating Vs. Civilized Courtship, etc.) I guess that I really dislike the suggestions more than the actual character of Jane Porter, who is delightful, smart, and cool.
:idea:


I don't see Jane as looking like that. Her hair isn't frosted at all. It is "Plain Jane" solid brown. The bun gets messy because she doesn't care about her looks and is in a jungle doing exploration and studies. I don't know what to say about your views of her "descending into primality" because I never saw it that way.

I'm not even going to touch on what you said about Jasmine.

You have a very interesting and different way of seeing things!

My least favorite Disney girl is Kida. She is forgettable and I am not fond of her design either.

I also don't care for Tinkerbelle. She is too bratty.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:55 pm 
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Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

I think that the entire "Tarzan" movie is slightly questionable, in some ways, anyway. Have any of you heard the N' Sync/ Phil Collins version of "Trashin' the Camp"? I'm not even being dirty-minded when I say that I heard something super non-kid-friendly when I FIRST heard that pop song! I mean, anybody can say, "They weren't saying THAT!", and I know what they were SUPPOSEDLY saying, but there's no WAY that anybody can convince me that those horndogs DIDN'T know what it SOUNDED like they were saying! Now, if THAT don't make you think of sex when you're not supposed to be thinking of sex!

With regards to Wendy Darling, she may be a jealous, moody pre-teen mess, but she literally saves Peter Pan's careless, albeit charming, self on more than one occasion! For those of you who doubt me, I have two words: Skull Rock!

With regards to Aurora's perky bustline, I have ALWAYS thought that she had "Cone Boobs" (AKA Those "boobs" that were created by 1950s bras, deceiving men and boys into thinking that women actually grew boobs that were cone-shaped) In Aurora's case, she didn't have that much of a chest, and she had one heck of a good corset, so that her boobs looked like "Cone Boobs", due to the fact that they weren't large enough to be anything but perky.

That Walt certainly knew how to draw women, and men, who looked deliciously desirable! He ALWAYS placed emphasis upon a lady's waist, but each female character had her own unique, visually-coded "Desire Zones" (Ie: Snow White's behind, Cinderella's chest and rear, Aurora's chest, etc.)

With regards to the men, Walt knew how to make clothing and hair look sexy. Prince Philip's hair is pretty sexy, and The Grand Duke's Dairy Queen curl-styled hair is enough to make ME swoon, anyway. Walt didn't do too well with regards to Snow White's prince, though, 'cause any guy who lets a bird kiss his TEETH automatically gets trumped by Grumpy, with regards to sexiness!

Well, anyway, I don't know if I could literally add Rapunzel to my list of least favorite animated Disney heroines, but I know that I STILL don't like the behavior that she displayed after she had her revelation.

For the record, Cinderella and Aurora's bangs both make them look sweeter, sexier, and more timeless. I know that I wouldn't want to see Philip or The Grand Duke if they didn't have THEIR bangs.

Thank you in advance for your replies.
:idea:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:32 am 
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I just want to say that those spoiler alerts aren't really neccessary, Jackoleen. Most of those movies came out 10-15 years ago and i think nearly every hardcore Disneyfan here has seen them.

And i don't really get why you don't like Jane? I have to admit that hair sometimes plays a big role with me liking a character, like Marina in Sinbad. She should have had longer hair.But Jane is awesome.

Anyways. I don't like Aurora, DESPITE of her hair because she has great locks, but she doesn't have a personality.. just like Snow White.
And Jasmine's voice bothers me sometimes, like when Aladdin says: Do you trust me?' She talks so breathy: "whhaaaddd?' and then: 'yesssss.'

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Fairytales wrote:
And Jasmine's voice bothers me sometimes, like when Aladdin says: Do you trust me?' She talks so breathy: "whhaaaddd?' and then: 'yesssss.'

That's one of the things I like about her! Maybe it's because I'm a man... :P


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:14 pm 
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I still fail to see how this kiss was rude. Esmeralda never once led Quasimodo to believe that she had anything more in mind than friendship, and she had no idea that Quasimodo had anything more in mind either..


Oh, didn't she? What about the kiss she gave Quasimodo on the cheek? No offence, though. It was obviously to flirt with him.

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She had every right to kiss Phoebus. AND, even if she did know about Quasimodo's feelings, Esmeralda didn't know he was watching, so it was not rude.


I actually used to think Esmeralda was rude to kiss Phoebus in front of Quasi. However, as you said; She probably wasn't aware that he was watching them.

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If they had done this, the movie would not have been half as good. It would be so unrealistic. Esmeralda thought of him as a friend throughout the whole film, and fell in love with Phoebus first. Also, think of the time period. Not only would this probably not happen today, but it would surely never happen then. It was a such a huge deal when the townspeople accepted Quasi into their community that Esmeralda falling for him is almost impossible. And Disney certainly did not encourage shallowness, everyone accepted Quasi at the end, and Esmeralda risked her life for him, and Phoebus always treated him as an equal.


I agree with you on that one as well. When I first saw the film, I thought Esmeralda was interested in Quasi as well and I felt sorry for Quasi who didn't got a girlfriend during the movie. I even hated Esmeralda for choosing Phoebus for Quasi, ha ha. However, I changed my mind. In fact, Esmeralda is a realistic portation of a woman's desire for a man; Most women actually fall for handsome men, who has wit, charm and personality, which actually made HUNCHBACK more realistic. And the fact that Quasi didn't got a girlfriend, makes the movie even more satisfying, in the realistic terms.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Jackoleen wrote:
With regards to Wendy Darling, she may be a jealous, moody pre-teen mess, but she literally saves Peter Pan's careless, albeit charming, self on more than one occasion! For those of you who doubt me, I have two words: Skull Rock!


It's been a while since I've seen Peter Pan, but I thought Pan was doing all the saving. I'll have to double check.

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With regards to Aurora's perky bustline, I have ALWAYS thought that she had "Cone Boobs" (AKA Those "boobs" that were created by 1950s bras, deceiving men and boys into thinking that women actually grew boobs that were cone-shaped) In Aurora's case, she didn't have that much of a chest, and she had one heck of a good corset, so that her boobs looked like "Cone Boobs", due to the fact that they weren't large enough to be anything but perky.


Ugh, triangle boobs drive me nuts! They can put an eye out.

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That Walt certainly knew how to draw women, and men, who looked deliciously desirable! He ALWAYS placed emphasis upon a lady's waist, but each female character had her own unique, visually-coded "Desire Zones" (Ie: Snow White's behind, Cinderella's chest and rear, Aurora's chest, etc.)


Yes, he and his artists have corrupted generations of curious boys with their delicious anatomy. 8)

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With regards to the men, Walt knew how to make clothing and hair look sexy. Prince Philip's hair is pretty sexy, and The Grand Duke's Dairy Queen curl-styled hair is enough to make ME swoon, anyway. Walt didn't do too well with regards to Snow White's prince, though, 'cause any guy who lets a bird kiss his TEETH automatically gets trumped by Grumpy, with regards to sexiness!


Maybe because I can't distinguish male sexiness like most people, but I found nearly all of Disney's male heroes practically indistinguishable.

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Well, anyway, I don't know if I could literally add Rapunzel to my list of least favorite animated Disney heroines, but I know that I STILL don't like the behavior that she displayed after she had her revelation.


You mean when she found out she was the lost princess?

Yes, I did feel that Rapunzel would've had more mixed feelings about the woman who raised her for exactly eighteen years. Of course she would be angered from having been "grounded for life", but she respected Gothel long enough, and got a taste of the real world during her field trip with Flynn that it would've been a little harder for her to suddenly accept that she was being deceived the whole time. Short of calling it Stockholm Syndrome, her anger seemed more cathartic than anything.

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For the record, Cinderella and Aurora's bangs both make them look sweeter, sexier, and more timeless. I know that I wouldn't want to see Philip or The Grand Duke if they didn't have THEIR bangs.


None of their bangs can compare to Ariel's, whose are almost big enough for a game of peek-a-boo. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Snow White - her voice kind of annoys me..

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Semaj wrote:
It's been a while since I've seen Peter Pan, but I thought Pan was doing all the saving. I'll have to double check.

She means when Wendy shouts for Peter Pan to look out, it saves him from Hook's attack.

Semaj wrote:
Maybe because I can't distinguish male sexiness like most people, but I found nearly all of Disney's male heroes practically indistinguishable.

If you are a boy, I guess that's okay, but if you are a girl, you might not be...into guys...but rather...into girls...

Semaj wrote:
Yes, I did feel that Rapunzel would've had more mixed feelings about the woman who raised her for exactly eighteen years. Of course she would be angered from having been "grounded for life", but she respected Gothel long enough, and got a taste of the real world during her field trip with Flynn that it would've been a little harder for her to suddenly accept that she was being deceived the whole time. Short of calling it Stockholm Syndrome, her anger seemed more cathartic than anything.

I think I agree, but I don't get that last part. Are you saying that she would have been nicer to Mother Gothel or would have acted more shocked and big? Because I would agree that Rapunzel probably wouldn't act as angry at first, but rather ask her mother, "Is it true, that you did this?" or something. But maybe she would act angry, I mean, she has been in a tower all her life waiting to come out and she finds out she was lied to all that time. People do explode after revelations.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:11 pm 
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To give my opinion;

The worst Disney female in without doubt Nakoma in POCAHONTAS. Sure, she wasn't the main character, but why did they have to still make her a completely dull, dour and personality deprived character? She was completely annoying and barely smiled.

Second place comes Ariel. I'm a bit surprised that no'one has mentioned her yet, since she's hated on the Imdb boards. While Ariel had her fun and engaging moments, she was pretty much a shallow, naive and quite selfish girl. She acted like a spoiled little brat and as much as I love "Part of Your World", the lyrics reflects her shallow nature. Sure, her father is overprotective and overracting, but at least he was genuinly concerned for her. In the series, she's more lovable, likeable and actually wise, but in the film she was mostly unlikeable and dumb.

Third place comes Jasmine. Just like Ariel, she acts somewhat like a spoiled brat, but while Ariel at least displayed some personality, Jasmine is pretty much a personality-deprived character, despite Linda Larkin's marvellous and sexy voice. Of the post-80 era, she's probably the most underdeveloped princess and after having a quest of her own plot line, her mission and wants becomes ignored in the rest of the movie and it becomes all about Aladdin. Yes, she's fallen in love with Aladdin, which actually fulfills her mission (to marry a guy because of love), but she still hardly changes or develop her character.

Adult Kiara in THE LION KING II; SIMBA'S PRIDE. Yes, she's a lioness, but I still count her. I don't know why, but I just found her annoying for some reason.

And for the rest. I thought Nani in LILO & STITCH could be pretty annoying, because of her voice and serious nature. Tiana also had her unlikeable and annoying moments, especially in the beginning with Naveen. I won't say I hate Aurora, but she's the most passive Princess that Disney has ever created.

Otherwise, as much as I like Esmeralda in HUNCHBACK, I must say that she's a somewhat flawed character, since she's causing herself trouble. In fact, she's brought Frollo's hatred (and lust) on herself. Remember in the Topsy Turvy sequence, where she danced to Frollo and put her scarf on him? Sure, it was just a innocent and mischevious flirt, but considering that she knew that he hated gypsies, she should've known better. And the kiss she gave Quasi on the cheek could also been avoiden. She was just flirting with him and obviously had a clue that he liked him.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:36 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Remember in the Topsy Turvy sequence, where she danced to Frollo and put her scarf on him? Sure, it was just a innocent and mischevious flirt, but considering that she knew that he hated gypsies, she should've known better. And the kiss she gave Quasi on the cheek could also been avoiden. She was just flirting with him and obviously had a clue that he liked him.

You have good points there, unless, are you sure she knew he hated the gypsies? Does the movie say?

I can also see her action as a way of fighting the hate, in a way. Or thinking on this day, all is okay, because it's Topsy Turvey. But yes, she could have perhaps not done that, and instead get persecuted for...uhhhh...just making him hot for her from afar? She'd probably still need to at least look at him once with a smile to make it happen.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:21 pm 
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LOL don't you guys get it? Esmeralda is a top class troll and cockteaser. That's why she's so awesome.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I think I agree, but I don't get that last part. Are you saying that she would have been nicer to Mother Gothel or would have acted more shocked and big? Because I would agree that Rapunzel probably wouldn't act as angry at first, but rather ask her mother, "Is it true, that you did this?" or something. But maybe she would act angry, I mean, she has been in a tower all her life waiting to come out and she finds out she was lied to all that time. People do explode after revelations.


What I meant is her relationship with Gothel could at first glance be seen as Stockholm Syndrome, but Rapunzel would have to have known from the start that she was being held captive. Since she didn't, it seemed that Rapunzel's revelation would've stirred a little more confusion than abrupt anger. In addition to connecting the dots to her royalty, she also would've had to review her life-long relationship with Gothel in order to weigh what remaining bit of trust or respect she still had for her.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Oh, then I think I agree. And I think a "Mother, is this true?" maybe could have worked.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:42 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
The worst Disney female in without doubt Nakoma in POCAHONTAS. Sure, she wasn't the main character, but why did they have to still make her a completely dull, dour and personality deprived character? She was completely annoying and barely smiled.


There were some recent stories behind Disney's 90's films where the higher-ups were trying to give the lead characters actual human friends, instead of the animal sidekicks that are common in almost every Disney feature.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Super Aurora wrote:
LOL don't you guys get it? Esmeralda is a top class troll and cockteaser. That's why she's so awesome.


Thanks for putting it so delicately, Super Aurora. ;)

A lot of what I'm hearing about Esmeralda relates to the way she expresses and uses her own sexuality–yes, she definitely manipulates Quasimodo when she kisses him on the cheek, but she's not teasing him for the sake of just doing it; she uses it to convince him to let her come up to the tower whenever she wants. As far as the dance in "Topsy Turvy", it's the reason for the season, as the saying goes–mocking Frollo goes along with it. (And Esmeralda is pretty confident about being able to protect herself against Frollo; although she turns out to be wrong, there's that.)

In fact, I think part of the subtext of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame is that it's alright to be a sexually expressive woman–it's the virgin/whore dichotomy all over again. Quasimodo puts her on a pedestal (the common treatment for the idealized virgin; he gets over it at the end) and Frollo sees her as a temptress (fulfilling the whore role). She ends up with Phoebus because he doesn't place her in either category–he loves her for who she is, not what she represents to him.

…that was too happy and affirming! Um! I've never cared for Tink, but then again, I've only seen Peter Pan a few times.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:49 pm 
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eralkfang wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:
LOL don't you guys get it? Esmeralda is a top class troll and cockteaser. That's why she's so awesome.


Thanks for putting it so delicately, Super Aurora. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:27 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Second place comes Ariel. ... She acted like a spoiled little brat and as much as I love "Part of Your World", the lyrics reflects her shallow nature.
How so?

I find the early lyrics in the song (the ones I’m guessing you’re referring to, because I’ve read this argument before) to be far beyond shallow or materialistic. When she starts the song, she spends a few seconds going on and on about all the great things she has, but then she kind of says, in a sarcastic manner, “Yeah, she’s got everything.” And then she lists specific things again, before boredly setting them aside with, “Who cares? No big deal. I want more.” Now, you could either assume that “oh, she’s just a selfish bitch who wants to own the whole damn world,” or you could look at what comes after, where she talks about being a part of the world above, seeing people dance, and living in a world of the sun (outside the dark, xenophobic, oppressive world of her father). Where she can explore and learn without that being a crime. More doesn’t = things. And besides the fact that it’s the most logical conclusion to make based on the lyrics, it’s hard to imagine filmmakers deliberately having their character say, “I want more things,” unless they’re a villain.

I don’t mind that others dislike like her, and they usually have somewhat valid reasons to hate her (such as believing she’s stupid for making the deal with Ursula--I don’t agree, of course, but I understand it), but you shouldn’t superimpose what comes later on what comes before. Still, I can’t help but think we must have completely contrary views on parent-child relationships.

I usually try not to respond to every “I hate Ariel/TLM” comment because I know that can be annoying, but I just wanted to put the above out there.

I agree on Esmeralda though, to an extent. I always found Esmeralda unlikable for that part at the beginning of the movie where she flippantly shoves the scarf in Frollo's face. Still, to look at it from her point of view, this is a man who oppresses her people and who has likely tortured many and put more of them to death. Any misinterpretation of her actions as "flirtatious" is more Frollo's sick mind than anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:25 pm 
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You have good points there, unless, are you sure she knew he hated the gypsies? Does the movie say?


Thanks. Remember that she does say to Frollo; "You mistreat this poor boy the same way that you mistreat my people."


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Quote:
How so?

I find the early lyrics in the song (the ones I’m guessing you’re referring to, because I’ve read this argument before) to be far beyond shallow or materialistic. When she starts the song, she spends a few seconds going on and on about all the great things she has, but then she kind of says, in a sarcastic manner, “Yeah, she’s got everything.” And then she lists specific things again, before boredly setting them aside with, “Who cares? No big deal. I want more.” Now, you could either assume that “oh, she’s just a selfish bitch who wants to own the whole damn world,” or you could look at what comes after, where she talks about being a part of the world above, seeing people dance, and living in a world of the sun (outside the dark, xenophobic, oppressive world of her father). Where she can explore and learn without that being a crime. More doesn’t = things. And besides the fact that it’s the most logical conclusion to make based on the lyrics, it’s hard to imagine filmmakers deliberately having their character say, “I want more things,” unless they’re a villain.


Its excatly how you describes; I find the lyrics shallow since Ariel describes that she has "everything" and then want more. She describes herself as a prisoner, while she in reality has a good life.


Last edited by DisneyFan09 on Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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