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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:31 am 
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Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

Super Aurora, I'm curious to know why "[you] can't help but laugh...at me for my reasoning".

Goliath, my opinions are indeed influenced by my own psychological, etc., experiences, but they are also influenced by attitudes and behaviors that I've seen in American society.

With regards to the rude kiss between Esmeralda and Phoebus, it's my opinion that said kiss is only deemed to be "normal" because it represents the behavior of an American society that usually dares not step "outside of the box." Of COURSE Esmeralda and Phoebus are gonna smell like roses in a society that has never been ready to accept certain people. For the record, I am as conflicted, with regards to that subject, as anybody else is. I think that those who are "normal" will celebrate the fact that they are normal, and that those who are not "normal" will always try to be "normal", because the desire to be "normal" is as biological as it is social. I only think that if Disney had pushed the envelope, with regards to "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", they could've discouraged shallowness, at least.

With regards to Disney Duster, and with regards to me, we both seem to be the "Popular Unpopulars". Unfortunate? Yes. Surprising? Not really.

Linden, I don't really dislike Jane Porter herself. I think that her personality is interesting, and that her overall, era-correct look is cool.

To that end, I think that MOST of Esmeralda's personality is cool, too! She just wasn't quite there, with regards to making REAL social waves.

Wonderlicious, I wasn't at all offended by the "offensive" avatar. In the world of adult entertainment, animated children are NOT actually considered to be minors, and therefore, they are considered to be "safe", with regards to weather or not it's appropriate to fantasize about them. I don't have an adult entertainment career, but I have a few Disney images that are not at all innocent, and I am by no means offended by them.

Like I've said before, Walt Disney wasn't blind to the fact that eroticism existed.

I don't think that either Alice or Pinocchio were immune to curiosity. With regards to Alice, one need only think about the intriguing Lewis Carroll to see how logical the "Alice in Wonderland"/ erotica connection is.
:wink:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

With regards to Snow White, I am slightly surprised by the amount of dislike that there is for her. Then again, I am biased. I live in mining country. The story of "Snow White" was the first fairy tale that I was really obsessed with when I was young. I didn't see Disney's movie version of the story until I was 14, because my mother was always afraid that I'd be afraid of the movie's scarier aspects, but I loved all things that had anything whatsoever to do with Disney's, or anybody else's "Snow White" story. I sang all of Snow White's songs when I was as young as 3 or 4 (?), trying to imitate Cassalotti's voice perfectly. I had a Snow White costume, even though I was a brown-eyed BLONDE. I still have a video tape of myself (dressed as Snow White) singing in front of Grandma's bedroom mirror.

I realize that Adriana Cassalotti's voice sounds weird to modern ears, because it was stylistically representative of a Depression era America that prized voices like those of Shirley Temple over voices like those of Britney Spears. My grandmother, who was a young teen when "Snow White" was released, is someone whom I could imagine saying "Oooh. YOU must be Grumpy." just as Snow White said it, because she is a direct product of that era.

So, what's cool about Snow White? Why is she NOT exactly the bland, boring little OCD, "pretty pretty princess" that so many people think her to be?

Well, she has put up with a TON of child neglect, and the only tradeable/ marketable skill that she has is that of cleaning. She's actually pretty enterprising, with regards to the fact that she is smart, and determined enough to drive a solid bribe with the dwarfs. She'll use her cleaning skills if they'll be her bodyguards. She doesn't necessarily LOVE doing housework, but she knows how to use her skills to get what she wants.

Snow White isn't exactly passive, either. She displays some dominance that nearly puts her in the realm of S&M. She's willing to starve the dwarfs unless they conform to her standards of cleanliness, and she lines them up, Mistress/ Sub-style, in order to examine their hands; she has the nagging, the finger-pointing, and the sweet version of Nurse Ratched down to a science. She IS rather OCD, but that's not exactly so bad, because at least the dwarfs will finally be clean, even if their thoughts about Snow White aren't so clean. :wink:

Snow White IS a stereotypically 1930s version of femininity (Ie: "I'm going to change you rough guys. I'm gonna perfume the room with pink, and I'm gonna put you under the powder puff until you faint to my every whim.", passive-aggressive dominance of the domestic diva, etc.)

Then again, she's rather poetic. I know that everything is a rhymey-cutesy poem with her, but, hey, at least she has a way with words.

She's also a devoted Christian. Cleanliness might come before Godliness, but Godliness is there, too.

Snow White knows how to balance religion with desire, fear with the act of moving onto a better life. She may be slightly erratic, and she may be a slight user (Ie: She charms seven guys, while telling them of her desire to be swept away by Mr. Right but Absent), but she's at least able to bring Grumpy's sweet/ slightly naughty side to life.

Thank you in advance for your replies.
:idea:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:31 pm 
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Jackoleen wrote:
With regards to Disney Duster, and with regards to me, we both seem to be the "Popular Unpopulars". Unfortunate? Yes. Surprising? Not really.

I wouldn't put you and Duster on quite the same level. You both have very... eccentric... points of view, and you're both interested in some... special... aspects of Disney. You seem to see sexual themes in everything Disney has done, it seems. But at least that's... interesting... to me. And we can discuss with you without drama occuring. ;)

Jackoleen wrote:
I don't have an adult entertainment career, but I have a few Disney images that are not at all innocent, and I am by no means offended by them.

You know you can always send me a PM, right? :P


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:20 pm 
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Jackoleen wrote:
With regards to the rude kiss between Esmeralda and Phoebus, it's my opinion that said kiss is only deemed to be "normal" because it represents the behavior of an American society that usually dares not step "outside of the box."


I still fail to see how this kiss was rude. Esmeralda never once led Quasimodo to believe that she had anything more in mind than friendship, and she had no idea that Quasimodo had anything more in mind either.. She had every right to kiss Phoebus. AND, even if she did know about Quasimodo's feelings, Esmeralda didn't know he was watching, so it was not rude.

The kiss is normal because Esmeralda and Phoebus were interested in one another, he was wounded (possible dying) so they kissed. I don't think the filmmakers put this in because of the American society.

Jackoleen wrote:
I only think that if Disney had pushed the envelope, with regards to "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", they could've discouraged shallowness, at least.


If they had done this, the movie would not have been half as good. It would be so unrealistic. Esmeralda thought of him as a friend throughout the whole film, and fell in love with Phoebus first. Also, think of the time period. Not only would this probably not happen today, but it would surely never happen then. It was a such a huge deal when the townspeople accepted Quasi into their community that Esmeralda falling for him is almost impossible. And Disney certainly did not encourage shallowness, everyone accepted Quasi at the end, and Esmeralda risked her life for him, and Phoebus always treated him as an equal.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:06 am 
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Well put, Scarred4life.

Still heartbreaking to see Quasi so sad, but in the end he at least finds peace with the situation. I think I'm in the mood for watching tHond again, though I've seen it many times already.

8)

My least favourite Disney heroins:Alice, Wendy and Tinkerbel (though the last one doens't really have a leading role). I do not really dislike Alice or Wendy, jut think they are underdeveloped as character. Tinkerbel is just mean, jaleous little elf.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:13 pm 
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skyler888 wrote:
Linden wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:
two actually.


Really? What's the song besides "Once Upon a Dream?" Sorry about that. I never really liked the movie, so I haven't seen it much.



"I Wonder"

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YLn9IMNPxG4?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YLn9IMNPxG4?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Thanks for that. Wow, I think I need to see the movie again. It hardly even looked familiar.

Okay, so I guess Aurora's a little better now that she sings two songs instead of one. :wink: I think the fairies need to feed that girl more, though. Poor thing, no wonder she's kind of dull. She's malnourished.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:56 pm 
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Or she could lose the corset.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:26 pm 
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I would have to say Esmerelda, Meg and Jane

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 Post subject: Holy-!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Dear WonderlandFever,

Holy-! You chose two of the same three heroines that I chose. I'm curious to know why Esmeralda and Jane are YOUR least favorite Disney heroines. I'm also curios to know why you don't like Meg.

Thank you in advance for your reply.
:o


WonderlandFever wrote:
I would have to say Esmerelda, Meg and Jane

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I wish to be seduced in a royal Asian locale!


Last edited by Jackoleen on Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:36 am 
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Entertainment Weekly ranked Disney Princess Hair:
Best: Ariel (underwater only)
Runner-Up: Pocahontas
Snoozefest:Snow White, but they gave her props for the nice bow!

Why does everybody pick on the Fairest One Of All??????


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Yeah, I love Ariel's underwater hair. It's nice sometimes when she's on land, too. Like when she first wakes up and finds Eric with Vanessa. But the bangs are a little too big in "KTG." Very '80s. :D

I actually like Snow White (the character; not the movie). She's just very sweet and naive, and she is like 13, right? She's the epitome of innocence. Plus, I've never thought her voice was as bad as some people do.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 pm 
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I love how Ariel's hair is constantly bouncing around, both on dry land and underwater. It's almost like it has a life of its own.

In terms of "best", she's in close competition with Rapunzel. :)

There's nothing really wrong with Snow White, but the fact that every princess since her are more distinguished might be why she gets picked on. It's sort of a price that comes with being a prototypical character.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:03 am 
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The runner-up was Aurora on that site, not Pocahontas. I think Aurora's should have one, but whatever.

But the comment about her "erect nipple", omg! Well, she was with a man who was as hot as her hair. I wonder if the animators...intended that little..feature...on her chest.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:04 am 
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My least favourites would have to be...

Snow White- It's not even her voice that bothers me, she is just so naive! No one could possibly be that ignorant.

Aurora- I have mixed feelings about her. I think that in her film, she works really, really well, and she definitely fits in with the tone. I just wish we had gotten to see her develop a little more.

Wendy- Blah. She is boring, and like Goliath said, passive and void of personality.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:58 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
The runner-up was Aurora on that site, not Pocahontas. I think Aurora's should have one, but whatever.

But the comment about her "erect nipple", omg! Well, she was with a man who was as hot as her hair. I wonder if the animators...intended that little..feature...on her chest.



Duster,
Ariel, Pocahontas & Snow White were the ones listed on page 13 of the 12/10/10 issue of EW. I didn't check their website but are you saying they list a different result? I'll check it out. BTW, I think Aurora's hair is fabulous too!

OK, I checked the site and here's the entire list from hair don'ts to hair-dos!
10. Rapunzel
9. Snow White
8. Tiana
7. Cinderella
6. Mulan
5. Belle
4. Pocahontas
3. Jasmine
2. Aurora
1. Ariel


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:44 pm 
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They must have something against short hair. Cinderella, Snow White, Mulan, and Tiana all have short hair, with Belle being medium-sized. All the top ones have long hair.

I'm assuming Rapunzel is at the bottom because it's 20+ feet long. But if they took her final design into account (the really short brown hair), she'd probably still end up at the bottom because of the anti-short sentiment. :lol: They're shorthairist.

With Aurora, I like the way it curls at the bottom, but I hate the bangs.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Besides the fact that no one should ever have 70 feet of hair, Rapunzel's hair is really pretty and I liked her short hair. Plus she should get props for being able to keep it so clean and untangled :lol:

My least favorite heroine would probably have to be Aurora. She's pretty and all, but she's barely there and so she has no personality. I really disliked Snow White when I was younger for some reason. Now I can't say, because it's been awhile since I've seen the movie.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:17 am 
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I agree about Snow White at least making a smart trade and taking charge with the dwarfs Jackoleen!

There ya go carolinakid!

Disney's Divinity wrote:
With Aurora, I like the way it curls at the bottom, but I hate the bangs.

Say wha?! I love her bangs! The hanging sectioned part and the big curl part! How do you not like them?! And while they aren't as good as Aurora's, I don't get why no one seems like Cinderella's bangs either.

I think Aurora has personality but just not enough/shows it enough, and I think Wendy is at least not passive in telling her parents she does not want to grow up. Maybe that's it, but unfortunately she's also stuck in a foreign land with mermaids and Indians and pirates that can do a lot to her. Also, she is in Peter Pan's film, so in a way I can see her passivity as ok because it's kind of from a guy's point of view...then again sometimes it feels like it's her story, too. Eh.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:25 am 
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My least favorite is Tinkerbell. She was such a b*tch in Peter Pan. :x


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:28 am 
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carolinakid wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
The runner-up was Aurora on that site, not Pocahontas. I think Aurora's should have one, but whatever.

But the comment about her "erect nipple", omg! Well, she was with a man who was as hot as her hair. I wonder if the animators...intended that little..feature...on her chest.



Duster,
Ariel, Pocahontas & Snow White were the ones listed on page 13 of the 12/10/10 issue of EW. I didn't check their website but are you saying they list a different result? I'll check it out. BTW, I think Aurora's hair is fabulous too!

OK, I checked the site and here's the entire list from hair don'ts to hair-dos!
10. Rapunzel
9. Snow White
8. Tiana
7. Cinderella
6. Mulan
5. Belle
4. Pocahontas
3. Jasmine
2. Aurora
1. Ariel


Ok, I get why Rapunzel was on the end if your list, but she had no choice really.Her hair never could be cut when it was long, and she was forced to have jagged, brown short hair when Flynn cut it. Also I don't get why people hate the looks of animated females with short hair (I I actually thought Cinderella and even Tiana were two of the prettiest princesses, and IMO, sorry for referencing a Dreamworks movie here, I thought Roxanne in Megamind was very pretty as well.)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:30 am 
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Tangled wrote:
carolinakid wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
The runner-up was Aurora on that site, not Pocahontas. I think Aurora's should have one, but whatever.

But the comment about her "erect nipple", omg! Well, she was with a man who was as hot as her hair. I wonder if the animators...intended that little..feature...on her chest.



Duster,
Ariel, Pocahontas & Snow White were the ones listed on page 13 of the 12/10/10 issue of EW. I didn't check their website but are you saying they list a different result? I'll check it out. BTW, I think Aurora's hair is fabulous too!

OK, I checked the site and here's the entire list from hair don'ts to hair-dos!
10. Rapunzel
9. Snow White
8. Tiana
7. Cinderella
6. Mulan
5. Belle
4. Pocahontas
3. Jasmine
2. Aurora
1. Ariel


Ok, I get why Rapunzel was on the end if your list, but she had no choice really.Her hair never could be cut when it was long, and she was forced to have jagged, brown short hair when Flynn cut it. Also I don't get why people hate the looks of animated females with short hair (I I actually thought Cinderella and even Tiana were two of the prettiest princesses, and IMO, sorry for referencing a Dreamworks movie here, I thought Roxanne in Megamind was very pretty as well. both Rapunzel and Roxanne are probably the two prettiest CGI characters IMO.)

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