DVDizzy Forum

Goliath wrote:

DisneyFan09 wrote:Sorry if it seems like I'm bitching, but he's actually not right about that case. It was quite obvious that she was using her female, flirty nature to convince him to agree with her. It wasn't just a innocent kiss.

Yeah, you're bitching, but I don't care.

I still don't see that. Maybe you think you see it because you don't like the character and you use circular logic to justidy your dislike? Just a gamble.

Sorry, I didn't mean to bitch. But I disagree with your statement! I actually like Esmeralda, I honestly think she's one of Disney's better and most underrated heroines, because that she's vivacious, strong and stand up for people. But I still stand for my statemnent about her kiss.

Oh, and Ariel was miserable because she didn't want to be underwater. Period. Doesn't matter how beautiful and swell it was. She was unhappy.

Yeah, but the film never justifies that fact. It would have been better if it explained why Ariel was so fascinated by humans, but the film never gets more deeper than that. And that isn't enough to justify why she was unhappy. Besides, she was a teenager and teenager have emotions who are constantly changing, right? She could have longed to be a human one day and yet change her mind the other day, right?

@ DisneyFan09: well, that may be true, what you say about Ariel and teenagers. But I look at the movie from the perspective of a teenager. I think that's what we're supposed to do. I mean, I still remember very vivdly how I was as a teenager. Even though girls and boys are obviously very different, I know how it was to feel such strong emotions and want to act upon them and being frustrated not being able to. So I can definitly understand Ariel. And that's why I root for her.

Right Ariel was going to change her mind that's why she had a giant trove of things from the human world that must have taken a really long time to make. And what more did we need to hear about why she loved the human world? Do any of us know much more about why we like something beyond, well, we like it, there is a strong desire and happiness in us for it? Sometimes we can break big, seemingly strange desires into details that make sense, but, I can't imagine Ariel's really needing more. She thoughts humans and their world looked and felt amazing and cool. And she felt she needed to be there. Why do you like Disney? Would you still be happy if you lived in a swell, but Disneyless world where someone forbade you from liking Disney lol.

Snow White. Can't detect obvious evil afoot and has an incredibly annoying voice, moreso with the voice actresses that took over the part in the 90s and present.

Goliath wrote:@ DisneyFan09: well, that may be true, what you say about Ariel and teenagers. But I look at the movie from the perspective of a teenager. I think that's what we're supposed to do. I mean, I still remember very vivdly how I was as a teenager. Even though girls and boys are obviously very different, I know how it was to feel such strong emotions and want to act upon them and being frustrated not being able to. So I can definitly understand Ariel. And that's why I root for her.

Good point. I'm not trying to bitch, but I still wanted to state that Ariel still doesn't change or develop as a character, although she (in the end) gets what she wants.

DisneyFan09 wrote:Good point. I'm not trying to bitch, but I still wanted to state that Ariel still doesn't change or develop as a character, although she (in the end) gets what she wants.

True. But I still don't care.

In addition to Belle (who, were it not for the lousy "feminist" example she sets, I still wouldn't like because Paige O'Hara is a terrible actress I think- very badly cast), I'm also not a big fan of Snow White. For reasons some already know but she is really dumb. To the point where you really have to scratch your head as to why the ending means so much (other than the terrific nostalgic feeling you get when the music turns on and the animation is stunning, of course).

Georgette and Tinkerbell. Georgette just has a grating personality, but I don't like how her spoiled attitude is allowed by the movie and the fandom just because "oh well, she's a diva". Also, prissy pampered white woman terrified of dirty hispanic cliché...No. Admittedly it's been years since I've seen the film, but she gave me a very negative impression.

Moana is kinda dull and her movie was overhyped in the months leading up to it, but she's overall a nice girl, even if a bit bland. But she's not really a "bad" person for one to dislike in that regard, just a little boring.

Anna, if only because I feel the filmmakers tried too hard with her. The fact that she's Rapunzel in her clownish apparel also doesn't work.

Honey Lemon, if only because she's so one-note, and her design is bland (I'm not a big fan of how skinny she is, either). Plus all the comments about "white hispanics don't exist" she brought to the discourse also soiled my opinion on her.

What do you mean by clownish apparel for Anna? I see Anna as a quirky, more awkward character than Rapunzel.

Honey Lemon was a white hispanic?

Aren't Rapunzel, Anna, Honey Lemon and Judy Hopps basically the same character (personality wise)?

Disney Duster wrote:What do you mean by clownish apparel for Anna? I see Anna as a quirky, more awkward character than Rapunzel.

Honey Lemon was a white hispanic?

It's just that, Anna feels Rapunzel done in extreme- much more goofier, much more awkward, and all that. Hence why I said "clownish".

And yes, Disney admitted Honey Lemon was latina (her voice actress is Puerto Rican). That lead to a buttload of people saying how that's whitewashing, how she looked "white", how hispanics are only dark-skinned...A lot of really ignorants comments regarding race and such, not understanding that Latin America, much like the USA, is a melting pot of different races living together. But Americans seem to have this idea that they must all look the same, and if not, they're just same ol' white people (never mind a white European can't compare to a white American? And white latinos also grow up having different beliefs and cultures etc compared to "white people", but nobody wants to accept that).

Just an ugly discussion all around.

farerb wrote:Aren't Rapunzel, Anna, Honey Lemon and Judy Hopps basically the same character (personality wise)?

You mean the sheltered, naive girl that comes from a small background and despite being naive, she's hardworking, determined and optimistic and has a dream? That goes on a trip with a patronizing jerk only to discover he's not all that bad and forms a connection with him? Yeah, pretty much.
There's also a bit of that in Tiana and Moana, too.

thedisneyspirit wrote: Moana is kinda dull and her movie was overhyped in the months leading up to it, but she's overall a nice girl, even if a bit bland. But she's not really a "bad" person for one to dislike in that regard, just a little boring.

Completely agree. She panders to the audience too much for my taste which is also what I consider Rapunzel guilty of. After Tiana failed to connect with audiences, Disney seemed desperate to ensure that Rapunzel would be likable. Frankly, the long golden blonde hair should already have accomplished that, but they had to put her in the Barbified purple dress and give her every hobby that could ever exist so that chances are, little kids would relate to at least one, whether it's painting, baking, reading, or even ventriloquism. On top of that, she's a complete Mary-Sue who is somehow perfect in every way and flawless in every social interaction, despite being isolated for 18 years of her life. Not realistic at all, especially in comparison to Quasimodo. All the anachronistic lingo and valley-girl speak don't endear her to me either, although I imagine that the masses disagree on this.

farerb wrote:Aren't Rapunzel, Anna, Honey Lemon and Judy Hopps basically the same character (personality wise)?

All the Revival heroines are basically the same in looks and personality. Judy is the most well done version though so I don't mind her and think she's easily the best out of the new wave of heroines.

I'm still thrown off by apparel...? I get why you said "clownish" even though I would not use that word.

Oh that Honey Lemon thing is interesting.

I do not get the appeal of Moana. Movie or character. Someone stole an item. It has to go back. That's it. Oh, and let's steal the Firebird ending from Fantasia 2000.

Moana is more character driven than plot driven. What appeals to me about Moana is that it is a story about a young girl, who's torn between her obligation and her desire, who goes through a personal journey where she learns a lot about her culture, but more importantly about herself and who she really is. Plus it has one of the best soundtracks.

Oh. Well I can sort of see that appeal, but I guess I like more of a story.

Disney Duster wrote:Oh. Well I can sort of see that appeal, but I guess I like more of a story.

Same. I love character development too but I think if I had to choose, I'd prefer something more like Sleeping Beauty than Moana.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I just personally prefer.

Wonderlicious wrote:

Semaj wrote: Why?

I think the simple image of Pinocchio and Alice kissing would make quite a few people feel uneasy, since they are child characters, and moreover they are sharing in such a passionate kiss. I have no qualms over the avatar itself, though.

Mamma mia I missed this! Semaj you come back right here and show me this avatar ASAP!

Tinkerbell is annoying because she is a vindictive little witch. She is cute, but appearances are deceiving she tries to kill Wendy multiple times. And never has to own up to it. She does save Peter in the end but by then the damage has been done imo.

Merida is another annoying brat. They tried so hard to make her a "strong, independent woman" and totally unlike the other princesses. But they took all of the renaissance heroines, threw them in a blender and puled out Merida, But they forgot to make her likeable. Knowingly giving her mom a cake that could have killed and the way she is acting while her mother is choking. Again, like Tink she earns her lesson at the end but the damage has been done.

Eilonwy and Kida annoy me too. Moreso that people complain they aren't in the princess lineup because they are real princesses!!!! But their films were flops and that's why they aren't included. Plus they are both so bland. Eilonwy especially is bland in every possible way. It's a shame because she was so cool in the books. Her design is Alice 2.0 her personality is Alice and Wendy mixed together. They already have Alice and Wendy if they need the sassy English girl troupe. Kida's design is more interesting but that would hinder her inclusion in the long run. Pocahontas is barely featured and she has black hair not white. Plus Kida is kind of generic fierce, warrior princess troupe. And we already have Pocahontas/Mulan and Jasmine(counting the TV series) to fill that role. Also Cree Summer's voice doesn't really do it for me in the role. I can only think of The Rugrats when I hear her.

I so agree about Cree Summer. I always thought that was a horrible choice. Not because she's a bad voice actress, but because her voice is too distinctive and recognizable as another animated character.

I LOVE Eilonwy in the books. The movie barely taps the surface with her or Taran, making her fairly forgettable there.