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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:41 am 
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I don't hate Snow White. I wanted to add my choice to this thread and decided on her. I don't like it that she acts as authority in the dwarfs' home when they're letting her stay out the kindness of their hearts.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:50 am 
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My least favorite is Aurora. She's pretty and sings beautifully. Pretty much the only other thing she's got going for her (in my mind, anyway) is that she goes barefoot and has animal buddies, which makes her a bit of a nature girl to me. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing to her: the pretty, barefoot songstress. Strangely, Odette has always reminded me of Aurora (actually, it's the other way around, since I grew up with The Swan Princess, not Sleeping Beauty), but even Odette is much more of a character than Aurora. And that's saying something.

Jasmine is okay. I hate her clothes, with the exception of the clothes she wears in the market, and her ridiculous body (NO ONE is that thin and lives, much less has breasts) and her overall sexiness. But I do like that she's quick-witted ("Hello, Doctor!") and independent. And she has one cool pet.

Ariel, I've always had a problem with. But I've read so many posts on here defending Ariel, I need to give her another chance. Ariel has the same body problem as Jasmine, though, and a re-watch will do nothing to change that.

I don't know if she counts, but I don't really like Lady. She's just kind of dull. Really cute, but dull.

Eilonwy is a bit annoying, but she falls into the re-watch category. She'll never be her book character, I now see, so I'll have to evaluate who she is in the movie.

Pocahontas is dull. She's beatiful, and although she has an unrealistic body, she's not sickly looking, thankfully. She has some great hear on that head of hers. But beyond looks, a gorgeous singing voice, some guts, and her love of nature, there's not much to like. She's like Aurora, but a little better.

Wow, I came up with more than I expected.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:18 am 
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Eilonwy would be my least favorite. Aside from a feeble attempt to make her assertive, they hardly did anything notable with her at all. Though that may be more the movie's fault, since all of the characters were woefully underdeveloped.

Sky Syndrome wrote:
I don't hate Snow White. I wanted to add my choice to this thread and decided on her. I don't like it that she acts as authority in the dwarfs' home when they're letting her stay out the kindness of their hearts.


Maybe they were willing to give her a break, not just because she was a princess, but because the only visible member of her family was out to kill her. Snow White already dashed any threat she might've indirectly posed, so a plausible exchange for her stay was a free lesson in housekeeping and hygiene, both of which they sorely needed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:46 am 
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Super Aurora
Esmeralda isn't styled as a passive purity sue, but she is one in a narrative sense, through needing to learn nothing, and inspiring others to act, rather than acting herself.

Disney's Divinity
I guess Megara did the best she could in the situation, but it wasn't wise of her to make the deal with Hades in the first place :headshake:

Goliath
-Ariel wasn't miserable enough to go looking for Ursula earlier, and besides, Trition didn't forbid Human contact, to make Ariel miserable. He forbade it in order to stop her swimming up to a ship, which he believed would almost certainly end with her getting speared by a harpoon, or caught in a trawler net.

-Jafar might have wanted power, rather than Jasmine, but she still let herself be a means of aquiring it, and she's a skank because she flirted with Jafar despite having no desire to. She could have distracted him by pinching his staff, or letting Rajah out of the cage, but she chose to turn him on instead. So much for doing something bold.

-You're right about Esmeralda kissing Quasimodo.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:56 am 
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Yeah, but it's not her fault Quasimodo thought she had feelings for him. I mean, girls have kissed me on the cheek lots of times, but not all of them had feelings for me. (Ha, I wish!)


I've said it before, but I'll say it again; You cannot compare a girl's innocent kiss on the cheek to a guy to what Esmeralda did to Quasi! If you have seen the movie, her kiss was a manipulation technique to make Quasi change his mind. It was not just a innocent kiss and it lead Quasi to think that she may have feelings for him!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:00 am 
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Esmeralda - She wasn't wrong to like Phoebus (and she didn't know Quasimodo was watching when they kissed), but she lead him to believe that she had feelings for him, when she kissed him.


Finally someone else who realizes it. Thank goodness, I thought I was the only one.
Although I actually like Esmeralda for her flirty, vivacious nature and her strength and courage, I would have liked her more if she didn't lead Quasi to think that she had feelings for him. Besides, its curious that she actually wanted to hide Phoebus on the Bell Tower, when she knew that he could have been found by Frollo.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:03 am 
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Pocahontas-She's a bland cardboard cutout with no depth whatsoever, and a tiresome bore that you don't care about whatsoever and is in my opinion one of Disney's most uninteresting characters. She barely displays any emotions and is not a character the audience can relate to, and there's no real chemistry between her and John Smith.


Haha! Sorry, but your first comment made me laugh. Although she does have her moments where she comes off as dull and boring, she does have depth and complexity. Do I have to remind you that she sacrificed to be with her boyfriend for the safety of her people?

Sorry, I didn't wanna seem rude.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:00 pm 
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This conversation is slowly starting to drift off-topic. Please take the discussion of how women choose to dress and the consequences of their choices to a new thread.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:33 pm 
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People saying Pocahontas is 'dull' and 'boring' shows a little bit of a lack of maturity to me.

Pocahontas isn't supposed to be silly or naive or super fun and mischievous. They already had that with Ariel. I think if they made Poca act too 'young' and 'fun' people would say she's too similar to Ariel.

Plus, racism, greed and war isn't exactly a 'fun' topic so I'm glad she's smart and wise. I've always seen Pocahontas as one of the most intuitive heroines. I think she knows things about people before she even has to get to know them.

I feel like I spend alot more time defending these heroines than trying to point out all their flaws. It might be fun to talk about which heroes/heroines you hate but I feel like I can always normally see why they made the descision to make them like that.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:52 am 
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WarriorDreamer wrote:
People saying Pocahontas is 'dull' and 'boring' shows a little bit of a lack of maturity to me.

Pocahontas isn't supposed to be silly or naive or super fun and mischievous. They already had that with Ariel. I think if they made Poca act too 'young' and 'fun' people would say she's too similar to Ariel.

Plus, racism, greed and war isn't exactly a 'fun' topic so I'm glad she's smart and wise. I've always seen Pocahontas as one of the most intuitive heroines. I think she knows things about people before she even has to get to know them.

I feel like I spend alot more time defending these heroines than trying to point out all their flaws. It might be fun to talk about which heroes/heroines you hate but I feel like I can always normally see why they made the descision to make them like that.


Totally agree with you! :up:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:53 pm 
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I have moved the off-topic conversation to a new thread. Feel free to continue that discussion here:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28826

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:53 pm 
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CJ wrote:
This conversation is slowly starting to drift off-topic. Please take the discussion of how women choose to dress and the consequences of their choices to a new thread.

I know I focused on physical appearance and dress a bit much in my post, but it does affect how much you like a character (the dressing part, especially). I didn't mean to be off topic. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:30 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
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I'm sorry, but if you really believe that, I have to ask: have you actually *seen* the movie? It seems as if you didn't understand it, or at least didn't understand the character of Ariel. Ariel was clearly miserable in her life underwater. Sure, *you* may think it was a treat, what with being a princess and living a life in luxury and having dancing and singing crabs and fishes around all the time --but *she* wasn't happy, and that's the crux! And her dad wasn't mean to her? He forbade her to do anything she really wanted; he kept her locked up in a world she didn't want to be in. He destroyed everything which was dear to her. So yes, that's why I root for Ariel: to escape the life she hated.


Yes, I've actually seen the movie.

You have good points. But what really was so miserable about the ocean life? If the film really made a valid point for Ariel to be miserable, then her desire to get free from the ocean could be more understandable. Otherwise, I simply got the notion that she was just ungrateful and spoiled and actually glorified the human world, without even knowing that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side (if you've heard that expression).

I think she was miserable just because of all the restrictions. I know the feeling.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
Disney Geek wrote:
-Ariel wasn't miserable enough to go looking for Ursula earlier, and besides, Trition didn't forbid Human contact, to make Ariel miserable. He forbade it in order to stop her swimming up to a ship, which he believed would almost certainly end with her getting speared by a harpoon, or caught in a trawler net.


That way well be, but even then it made Ariel miserable. It doesn't matter what Triton's reasons were for forbading Ariel to have contact with humans --he *did* and that made his daughter unhappy. I call the destruction of Ariel's cavern the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The fight she and Triton had at the beginning of the movie obviously wasn't the first, as evidenced by his words. Was the deal with Ursula smart? No. Do teenagers do stupid things? Yes. Should we hate them for it? I don't think so.


I think we should just agree to disagree on Ariel :|


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Disney Geek wrote:
-Jafar might have wanted power, rather than Jasmine, but she still let herself be a means of aquiring it, and she's a skank because she flirted with Jafar despite having no desire to. She could have distracted him by pinching his staff, or letting Rajah out of the cage, but she chose to turn him on instead. So much for doing something bold.


You are so wrong in more ways than I can describe --or care to. Jasmine wasn't "letting herself be a means of acquiring" anything. I'm sorry, but that's not a difference of opinion. She simply wasn't. She never wanted to be with Jafar, so how was she a means for him to acquire power? That doesn't make sense. And Jasmine distracted Jafar to save Aladdin, her father and herself. You can see how much she hated doing it. Saying that she is a 'skank' for doing so makes no sense. At all. Not even remotely. And it still saddens me that a woman would call another woman a 'skank' (or a 'slut' or 'whore' or whatever derogatory names there exist for women), no matter what the context.


I know Jasmine didn't want to marry Jafar, or get him hot and bothered, but that's my point. She was submissive, and I know why she distracted him, but my issue is how she distracted him. She kissed him even though it obviously did not appeal to her. Regarding the use of the word "skank", I meant it only as a lamentation of the submissiveness I see in Jasmine, but then it isn't really reclaimed if it's used in a critical sense, so you have a point.

Goliath wrote:
Oh, and of course none of what I wrote has to be taken personally :)


Don't worry. It hasn't been :thumb:

P.S: I posted a message almost identical to this one in the break off thread (as that was where your post got moved), but I feel it's more relevant here.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:14 am 
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[quote="Disney's Divinity"]

Hi Disney's Divinity.

Since this last discussion, I've re-watched "The Little Mermaid" and I've come to understand your point of view about Triton. I saw that he was quite jugdemental about humans and that he wouldn't even bother to listen to Ariel. So he's a quite flawed character, indeed.

However, that doesn't make Ariel less flawed. She still quite selfish, she puts her friends in danger and still has no consideration about nothing else than getting what she wants. I'm not saying that Ariel is a completely heartless character and of course, she was only a teenager in the movie. However, what makes Triton up for Ariel is the fact that he has a character arc and Ariel doesn't. He learns to let her go and fulfill her dream, while Ariel doesn't really change or grows - or even apologizes for the outcome for what she did. However, that's rather a script flaw than a character flaw.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:42 am 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
she puts her friends in danger
Mostly unknowingly. The one bright side to Ariel's naivete is that she doesn't take into consideration that others might get hurt by her actions--she only sees the risks she's taking on herself. I don't think she thought Ursula was trying to get Triton, just that she might end up as Ursula's slave.

The other thing I like about Ariel is that, even when her actions cause bad outcomes (like the shark chase at the beginning and then the Ursula-takeover at the end), she does try to fix it. She saves Flounder and then attacks Ursula after seeing what she had done to her father, both of which tell me she is far from a selfish person. But if wanting to live one's own life = "selfish," then I would agree that Ariel's selfish and there's nothing wrong with it. :P

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and still has no consideration about nothing else than getting what she wants.
What should she have consideration for? A father she doesn't want to stay with? Rules she doesn't believe are right?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:03 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Mostly unknowingly. The one bright side to Ariel's naivete is that she doesn't take into consideration that others might get hurt by her actions--she only sees the risks she's taking on herself. I don't think she thought Ursula was trying to get Triton, just that she might end up as Ursula's slave.
The other thing I like about Ariel is that, even when her actions cause bad outcomes (like the shark chase at the beginning and then the Ursula-takeover at the end), she does try to fix it. She saves Flounder and then attacks Ursula after seeing what she had done to her father, both of which tell me she is far from a selfish person. But if wanting to live one's own life = "selfish," then I would agree that Ariel's selfish and there's nothing wrong with it. :P


You're right about that. Once again; I'm not saying that Ariel is completely heartless. She does try to save Flounder and attacking Ursula. However, that doesn't make her less flawed.

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What should she have consideration for? A father she doesn't want to stay with? Rules she doesn't believe are right?


Should a person let an obsession take over you? Obsessions aren't always good and even though Trtion was a jerk, he still loved her and wanted her to be safe. Besides Triton, there was no reason for Ariel to be unhappy with her life at the ocean. She seemed to have a good life, with good friends, while her obsession for humans made her (not litterally) blind. She almost never considered the consequences for being a human.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:06 am 
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Disney Geek wrote:
Goliath-You're right about Esmeralda kissing Quasimodo.


Sorry if it seems like I'm bitching, but he's actually not right about that case. It was quite obvious that she was using her female, flirty nature to convince him to agree with her. It wasn't just a innocent kiss.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:30 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Sorry if it seems like I'm bitching, but he's actually not right about that case. It was quite obvious that she was using her female, flirty nature to convince him to agree with her. It wasn't just a innocent kiss.

Yeah, you're bitching, but I don't care. :)

I still don't see that. Maybe you think you see it because you don't like the character and you use circular logic to justidy your dislike? Just a gamble.

Oh, and Ariel was miserable because she didn't want to be underwater. Period. Doesn't matter how beautiful and swell it was. She was unhappy.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:19 pm 
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Goliath wrote:

Oh, and Ariel was miserable because she didn't want to be underwater. Period. Doesn't matter how beautiful and swell it was. She was unhappy.


Nah she was miserable because she couldn't get any cock under the sea. Any silly 16 yr old girl would be desperate for some nice juicy cock.

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