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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:50 pm 
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I don't accept the gargoyles are Quazi's imagination (although I believe that their is a single passage/scene in the novel where he does imagine the gargoyles to be alive and his friends and confidents)

The thing is... the battle scene clearly shows the gargoyles helping with the defence of the cathedral - and clearly having an effect on the invading soldiers. So I can only put them as "real" - as real as the film's reality anyway.

I don't think the gargoyles did make a lot of objectionable slapstick. Yes they were anachronistic and yes, A Guy Like You was woefully out of place. But I don't mind the gargoyles. In fact, I love Laverne and think she had some killer lines which were incredibly clever (and for want of another word) "adult".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:28 pm 
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2099net wrote:
I don't accept the gargoyles are Quazi's imagination (although I believe that their is a single passage/scene in the novel where he does imagine the gargoyles to be alive and his friends and confidents)

The thing is... the battle scene clearly shows the gargoyles helping with the defence of the cathedral - and clearly having an effect on the invading soldiers. So I can only put them as "real" - as real as the film's reality anyway.


Quite true

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I don't think the gargoyles did make a lot of objectionable slapstick. Yes they were anachronistic and yes, A Guy Like You was woefully out of place. But I don't mind the gargoyles. In fact, I love Laverne and think she had some killer lines which were incredibly clever (and for want of another word) "adult".


I find Laverne the most tolerable of the three, I've stated that before..

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:35 pm 
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I still think the gargoyles represent Quasimodo's mind/psyche/person. Hugo, for example, would obviously be the id. The other guy would be the superego (the way he's kind of apalled, with disdain, over Hugo's sick and primal statements/acts). And Laverne would be his anima.

Regardless of whether you see that yourself, I personally found stone gargoyles interacting in the final battle kind of stupid anyway.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Well said BelleGirl on the gypsies leaving Quasimodo on the doorstep and Frollo having just a little more heart, and perhaps even more of that...complexity dun dun dun. But the whole chasing the gypsies in the beginning is really dramatic and sets the tone...

Now for the gargoyles!

In the Broadway version, they actually wanted to take out the gargoyles, but Disney said that was one of the biggest things that made their Hunchback the Disney version, different from other versions, so they made them more like different parts of Quasimodo's personality.

Hey, do you remember that Frollo saw the eyes of the church looking at him, but more than that, a gargoyle actually came to life to him to make him be frightened and fall to his doom (like Lucifer the Devil...)?

So, it actually makes it have some more sense when even others can see the gargoyles come to life, metaphorically or imagined.

However, I think the gargoyles taking part in the battle simply ruined the effect. Maybe some people writing that scene didn't talk to the people who knew what the gargoyles were supposed to be.

However, isn't it possible the soldiers who got creamed by the gargoyle's doings imagined that as well, kind of like Frollo's demise by gargoyle? Oh yes, then in a way it makes those moments rather surreal, but it's still possible, right? Maybe what would have been best I guess would be the gargoyles "helping" Quasimodo and he does the real work/damage. But making the birds release on the soldiers, that could have been natural, or the gargoyles, is it our imagination gargoyles were behind it?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:16 pm 
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I just watched this movie for the first time since my childhood, and absolutely loved it. (And understood it :P ) This movie is....... wow. Simply amazing. I love the animation, the songs, and the voices. (Especially Tony Jay).

The gargoyles are a necessary part of the film, whether you like it or not. True, some of their humour was out of place, but at least it wasn't Timon and Pumbaa's type of humour. I don't hate them, I just think they could have been better. And 'A Guy Like You' came at the worst time possible. They already had 'Heaven's Light', so 'A Guy Like You' was not needed. Back to the gargoyles, I think that they were real. They interact with people at the battle, and Hugo appears in front of Djali. I would have preferred them to be figments of Quasi's imagination, because anybody who has lived alone their whole life has to have had some way of coping.

I think the ending works. It wasn't completely happy, Quasi didn't end up with Esmeralda, but he was accepted by the villagers. It was bittersweet, and really worked for the film.

And of course, the villain is amazing. Frollo is frighteningly real, doesn't feel any remorse, and doesn't even know what he is doing is wrong.

I must say, this movie is my favourite movie ever. I absolutely love it.

One more thing, does anyone else find it weird that their is this big pit of burning oil, which Frollo falls into, and then as soon as Quasi, Esmeralda, and Phoebus walk outside, it's gone?

<Has anyone noticed that when Frollo visits Quasi, and he says Festival, Frollo chokes on his wine, but his goblet is still lying on the table, untouched?>


Last edited by Scarred4life on Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:32 pm 
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Scarred4life wrote:
One more thing, does anyone else find it weird that their is this big pit of burning oil, which Frollo falls into, and then as soon as Quasi, Esmeralda, and Phoebus walk outside, it's gone?


Hmmm... Maybe the townspeople cleaned it up? :twisted: Or maybe, there's like these little ruts in the cathedral (like a moat), and it slipped underground.

Glad to know you liked it. I personally enjoy it very much myself, but when people see Frollo singing Hellfire, you can obviously tell they're itching to say: What is wrong with Disney? And you?! :P

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:49 pm 
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^Ahh. Another mystery solved. :)

And I don't really care if people think their is something wrong with Disney (or me :P), Hellfire is such a strong, powerful scene; the best one in the whole movie (for me).


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:43 am 
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In terms of changing anything of the questionable stuff, they've already altered movies with rumors in them. Like in TLM with the supposed boner on the priest or the change in the original poster when Triton's castle had one portion that looked like a male's genital. Anything that becomes too upsetting (the drastic changes in POTC attraction at Disneyland) gets changed. So, with HOND, they had better leave it alone. If they wanted to make a squeaky clean version, they should have done that the first time around.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:59 am 
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What did they do to the POTC attraction and when?

I too loved Hunchback and liked it's more mature themes.

Disney is not and should not just be for the kids.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:12 am 
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BK wrote:
What did they do to the POTC attraction and when?
Oh, nothing in recent times, I was referring to the whole chasing the women scene was altered to a gluttony scene. Plus, the woman in the barrel and the pirate holding her petticoat. Some guests were offended when he said stuff like, "It's sore I be to hoist me colors upon the likes of that shy little wench!" It's been altered to how it is now since 1997 (with, of course, the later additions with Captain Jack, Captain Barbossa and Davy Jones). I last saw it the original way (chased women) in October of 1996.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:25 am 
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I don't think this movie should have gotten a PG rating, it is perfectly acceptable for kids. When they are old enough to understand, they will. There is nothing that Disney needs to change.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:23 pm 
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Scarred4life wrote:
I don't think this movie should have gotten a PG rating, it is perfectly acceptable for kids. When they are old enough to understand, they will. There is nothing that Disney needs to change.


True. The Hellfire sequence is handled well enough to avoid the PG rating, even if it's a bit head-scratching for others.

I'll make my thoughts on HOND fairly plain, I LOVE this movie. It's in my personal top 5 just below the big 4 of the Renaissance era. I love the much darker and more serious tone HOND has compared to the other movies that surrounded it and it's one of the only movies that has gotten me to well up a little. Sort of strange, when I was younger, it bored the living daylights out of me and I almost never made it to the end. I rediscovered the movie on a big Disney kick I had been going through last year into this year and I was amazed by it. Very good movie, needs a better DVD.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:03 pm 
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^Wow. It's like you just described my life. :lol: :P (Except, HOND is my favourite)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:37 pm 
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^ I felt the same way, too. :lol:

I think most people here share the same experience with Hunchback and Pocahontas-- how it bored them to death when they were kids but appreciating them much later. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:00 am 
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It's surprising how much I understood what was going on in HOND after my kid years. In fact, I found it more disturbing watching it grown up then as a little kid. I knew Frollo was was one bad man, but now he's cleary cold and menacing. The scene where he's practically running throug Paris and arresting everybody just because Esmerelda wasn't with them made me mad, especially when he deliberately burned down a farmer's windmill and house. What makes it more scary is that all of that could have happened (and probably did) in real life.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:53 am 
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Scarred4life wrote:
I just watched this movie for the first time since my childhood, and absolutely loved it. (And understood it :P ) This movie is....... wow. Simply amazing. I love the animation, the songs, and the voices. (Especially Tony Jay).

The gargoyles are a necessary part of the film, whether you like it or not. True, some of their humour was out of place, but at least it wasn't Timon and Pumbaa's type of humour. I don't hate them, I just think they could have been better. And 'A Guy Like You' came at the worst time possible. They already had 'Heaven's Light', so 'A Guy Like You' was not needed. Back to the gargoyles, I think that they were real. They interact with people at the battle, and Hugo appears in front of Djali. I would have preferred them to be figments of Quasi's imagination, because anybody who has lived alone their whole life has to have had some way of coping.



I don't see why the gargoyles are 'necessary'. Sure Quasi needed imaginary friends to cope with his loneliness, but did they have to be so obnoxious? Another thing that irritates me about "A guy like you" apart from the timing, is the willful anagronism. Hey guys we're talking about the middle ages here: there were no tuxedo coats, grand pianos or powdered wigs (of course I get the reference to "Amadeus", but it's still out of place). Of course one can put in it's defence" "It's only a figment of Quasi's imagination, so anagronism is allowed." But how than could Quasi imagine just the things that would be invented centuries later? May it be that he's related to the magician Merlin? :roll:
:lol:
I have a suspicion the directors looked a bit to much toward the example ofAladdin as inspiration for 'comic relief'. Sorry guys, what is funny and works in Aladdin sticks out like a sore thumb in The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

But this is my main criticism of HOND, for the rest I love this movie very much.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:56 pm 
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Didn't HOND get away with obvious innuendo such as Frolllo groping Esmeralda and sniffing her hair? I'm surprised there wasn't outrage over that just because we all know the soccer moms wouldn't tolerate that in a wholesome, family film...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:10 pm 
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I don't remember this film at all but I do recall watching it. I want to go buy and watch it now but I'm afraid Disney will rerelease it and I don't want to double-dip!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:32 pm 
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magicalwands wrote:
I don't remember this film at all but I do recall watching it. I want to go buy and watch it now but I'm afraid Disney will rerelease it and I don't want to double-dip!


You should watch for a sale and just grab it. I felt the same way as you do about Hercules, and finally I gave up waiting and just got the current version for $10 on sale at Target (this was maybe a year ago). I'm glad I did, even if I have to double-dip when it's finally released on Blu-ray. My kids had never seen Hercules and now it's one of their favorites.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:36 pm 
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BelleGirl wrote:
Scarred4life wrote:
I just watched this movie for the first time since my childhood, and absolutely loved it. (And understood it :P ) This movie is....... wow. Simply amazing. I love the animation, the songs, and the voices. (Especially Tony Jay).

The gargoyles are a necessary part of the film, whether you like it or not. True, some of their humour was out of place, but at least it wasn't Timon and Pumbaa's type of humour. I don't hate them, I just think they could have been better. And 'A Guy Like You' came at the worst time possible. They already had 'Heaven's Light', so 'A Guy Like You' was not needed. Back to the gargoyles, I think that they were real. They interact with people at the battle, and Hugo appears in front of Djali. I would have preferred them to be figments of Quasi's imagination, because anybody who has lived alone their whole life has to have had some way of coping.



I don't see why the gargoyles are 'necessary'. Sure Quasi needed imaginary friends to cope with his loneliness, but did they have to be so obnoxious? Another thing that irritates me about "A guy like you" apart from the timing, is the willful anagronism. Hey guys we're talking about the middle ages here: there were no tuxedo coats, grand pianos or powdered wigs (of course I get the reference to "Amadeus", but it's still out of place). Of course one can put in it's defence" "It's only a figment of Quasi's imagination, so anagronism is allowed." But how than could Quasi imagine just the things that would be invented centuries later? May it be that he's related to the magician Merlin? :roll:
:lol:
I have a suspicion the directors looked a bit to much toward the example ofAladdin as inspiration for 'comic relief'. Sorry guys, what is funny and works in Aladdin sticks out like a sore thumb in The Hunchback of Notre Dame.

But this is my main criticism of HOND, for the rest I love this movie very much.


The point was that Quasi needed someone to talk to, I definitely agree that the gargoyles humour was stupid.

:lol: I never thought about the wigs, tuxedo's, etc in 'A Guy Like You'.


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