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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
ajmrowland wrote:
I couldn't agree more. In fact, (this is a bit off topic), but to even further your belief in the MPAA system being "worthless", I suggest you check out this documentary feature called "This Film is Not Yet Rated". Heven't seen it, myself, but from what I hear, It makes the MPAA look like a complete laughing stock. It's not even the "association" we've come to think of it as. They're just a group of about 6 or 7 "parents, half of whom's kids are already grown up.

Yes, I have seen that documentary! And that's why I hold this opinion about the MPAA! You should definitly watch it as soon as you get the chance. :D


Ok, I'll netflix it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:09 pm 
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I just saw Hunchback for the first time and loved it!

As I've stated on other threads, I'm currently marathoning every Disney Animated Classic by release order as well as inserting the sequels/prequels/etc. in to create continuities for each film.

I really loved The Little Mermaid and thought it has wonderful songs and a great story. Beauty and the Beast was good, too. I loved the Genie in Aladdin. But like when I was a kid, The Lion King was okay but didn't blow me away - and since it's considered Disney's best by so many, one questions their tastes. Pocahontas was alright, but "Colors of the Wind" was really the only thing that stood out.

I thought maybe I was getting jaded and that's why these classics weren't just leaping out at me. I've seen over 100 Disney animated movies since September, after all - surely they might just all begin running into one another.

But Hunchback really stood out. It may be because I get into films with Catholic themes (I mean, I actually enjoy the cheesy Da Vinci Code/Angels & Demons) - it could be because chamber choir music and resounding bells really resonate with me - but I often got chills down my spine with this film.

I really liked Frollo - even though I recently criticized the shallowness of Disney villains - I still enjoyed his self-righteous crusade.

The darkness was great. I wish there were more dark Disney films (but realize that's unlikely to happen ever again).

Quasimodo was a hero I could sympathize for, and Esmeralda seemed like a truly genuine heroine.

The fact she chose Phoebus over Quasimodo added realism to the ending.

I've never read the book, so I could just judge the film on it's own merit and not how it was versus the source material.

The only downside was the Gargoyles. I look forward to a Disney film where the sidekick is either nearly nonexistent, or, can be serious. For example, in Sleeping Beauty, Flora, Fauna, and Merryweather could be serious when they needed to be. If they began cracking jokes during the Maleficent/Phillip fight "she's one hot mama!" - how awful would that have been?

Do kids really need jokes during battles to ease the intensity?

Here, even during an epic and what should be striking battle sequence, they have to be cracking lame jokes. It was awful. And that song - "A Guy Like You" - filled with anachronisms and lame jokes couldn't have come at a worst time in the film.

Blegh! I wish the Gargoyles sort of dropped out by the middle of the film or didn't exist at all.

Some of these films should be able to sell themselves by main characters alone - if you create a strong enough lead - do you need sidekicks to supplement?

All in all, between the adult themes, the powerful songs such as "Hellfire" and "Bells of Notre Dame" - an engaging villain, and the powerful choir and bell music - this is now one of my favorite Disney films!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:07 pm 
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The gargoyles were useless. I'm all for comic relief, but they just didn't bode well with the general atmosphere of the film, especially during the final battle.

All in all, this is a stupendous movie. Frollo is, in my opinion, the most terrifying of the Disney villains due to how deeply realistic he is. There are many still today with religiously bigoted and otherwise bigoted self-righteous mindsets who do not realize how villainous they are.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:18 pm 
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Yes, I know many who are so caught up believing they are messengers of God that nothing they do is wrong - even when it breaks the fundamental ten commandments.

Frollo was terrifying and the Gargoyles didn't ruin it for me, but they were unnecessary.

However, I feel this film is criminally underrated!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Neal wrote:
Yes, I know many who are so caught up believing they are messengers of God that nothing they do is wrong - even when it breaks the fundamental ten commandments.

Frollo was terrifying and the Gargoyles didn't ruin it for me, but they were unnecessary.

However, I feel this film is criminally underrated!


Ridiculous, isn't it? Ha, now I'm reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPMqaqXYok

Frollo types are much more well-composed than the woman in the above linked video was, to be sure.

The gargoyles didn't ruin the movie for me. Just annoyed me.

This film is criminally underrated! I wonder why!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:31 pm 
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I think the gargoyles were needed to get some lightness in the film. Otherwise it would've been even darker and dramatic. I like dark movies, but I can understand Disney doesn't want their films to be that dark. That they come out of Quasi's loneliness (they're figments of his imagination) is a great and actually pretty dark way to look at it.
Also I'm a big Jason Alexander fan, so that probably helps too :).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Prudence wrote:
Ridiculous, isn't it? Ha, now I'm reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPMqaqXYok


God, her local dietician and dentist must be "dark-sided" for her to have ended up like that. :shock:

On the topic of Hunchback, can't remember if I commented in this thread many moons ago, but my current thoughts on the film in a nutshell (I last watched the film back in January of this year):

Wonderful score, some really powerful moments, a story and characters that really speak in today's society and gorgeous animation and art direction. BUT some corny dialogue and pointless sidekicks do let the film down. Not one of Disney's best, but still recommended to anybody.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Prudence wrote:
Ridiculous, isn't it? Ha, now I'm reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPMqaqXYok

Ahh, "Wife Swap." If it wasn't so ridiculous, it's a fascinating study of human behaviour. They need to figure out how to film that kind of show without cameras or people aware that there are cameras. Then you can see what they really act like.

albert

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Prudence wrote:
Ridiculous, isn't it? Ha, now I'm reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SPMqaqXYok


LOL What a fucking fatty bitch.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Another religious nut on a rampage. I fuckin' hate those people. Will she ever recover from such eternal damage? WILL THE INSANITY NEVER END!!!!!?????????

Say tuned for Next week's episode of "Christians Gone Wild"! :D

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Last edited by ajmrowland on Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Neal wrote:
I just saw Hunchback for the first time and loved it!

The darkness was great. I wish there were more dark Disney films (but realize that's unlikely to happen ever again).

Forgive me for asking, but if this is true, then why would you want to watch the sequel? I mean, I'm sure it's just another light-hearted, simple-storied, kiddies-targeted, watered-down version of the original, like all sequels.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
Neal wrote:
I just saw Hunchback for the first time and loved it!

The darkness was great. I wish there were more dark Disney films (but realize that's unlikely to happen ever again).

Forgive me for asking, but if this is true, then why would you want to watch the sequel? I mean, I'm sure it's just another light-hearted, simple-storied, kiddies-targeted, watered-down version of the original, like all sequels.


Well, the climax is watered down, but I can't remember much of the film.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:01 pm 
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This is funny, I actually just purchased this film and watched it again and see this thread. I hadn't seen it since the original VHS release in ... 1996 was it? Anyway, it was very good, just like I remember it. I actually liked it more than I thought I would. Definitely not your typical Disney stuff.

The only thing I would have changed was Frollo killing Quasimodo's mother. I mean, was that really necessary? Sure, it shows just how cruel Frollo was, but for one thing I don't think he meant to kill her. And the story would have been just as powerful had she left the baby off on the steps, maybe even moreso because it shows that not even his own mother wanted him.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:20 pm 
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ToyStoryFan wrote:
This is funny, I actually just purchased this film and watched it again and see this thread. I hadn't seen it since the original VHS release in ... 1996 was it? Anyway, it was very good, just like I remember it. I actually liked it more than I thought I would. Definitely not your typical Disney stuff.

The only thing I would have changed was Frollo killing Quasimodo's mother. I mean, was that really necessary? Sure, it shows just how cruel Frollo was, but for one thing I don't think he meant to kill her. And the story would have been just as powerful had she left the baby off on the steps, maybe even moreso because it shows that not even his own mother wanted him.


Maybe Disney wanted to show gipsies (or shall I write "Roma")in a more sympathetic way than has mostly been done, by showing a mother who cared for her deformed child and did not abandon it?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Goliath - Why just because I liked the darkness of this Disney film would I in turn avoid light-hearted films?

I can like both - lighthearted and dark.

The Emperor's New Groove is one of my favorites, as well.

And I don't like all dark - The Black Cauldron kind of bored me.

But just because I liked the darkness of this film doesn't mean I'd shun the more happy films.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:15 pm 
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KubrickFan wrote:
I think the gargoyles were needed to get some lightness in the film. Otherwise it would've been even darker and dramatic. I like dark movies, but I can understand Disney doesn't want their films to be that dark. That they come out of Quasi's loneliness (they're figments of his imagination) is a great and actually pretty dark way to look at it.
Also I'm a big Jason Alexander fan, so that probably helps too :).


I agree, HB of ND is quite dark and I think the breaks from the heaviness of the film were welcomed. I love Hunchback and seriously miss the grittyness of classic animation. I just re-watched The Secret of NIMH recently and my god, there's a level of gravity that's been lost in most recent animated features I feel. I think that's why I loved the beginning of UP so much. They really gave that character weight and it just made me care about him so much more than I anticipated. I was so invested in him after that!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:46 am 
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ToyStoryFan wrote:
The only thing I would have changed was Frollo killing Quasimodo's mother. I mean, was that really necessary? Sure, it shows just how cruel Frollo was, but for one thing I don't think he meant to kill her.


Regardless, he did kill her. You may think it's unnecessary, but I think it pretty much establishes him well right from the get-go. He's so obsessed with chasing after a lady he thinks just stole some items that he kills her in the process and doesn't even care. Not only does he not care, he's prepared to kill the baby she dies protecting. Cruel, yes, but also a great way to show the audience his true colors.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:59 am 
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Yeah I always thought the Gargoyles were percieved as Quasi's imaginary friends....and through the Gargoyles came Quasi's confidence that he was afraid to show himself.....I liked the Gargoyles....espically the name play on the 2 guy ones...the one played by Jason Alexander is called Hugo and the tall distinquished and trying to help with advice that is already there is Victor and the reasonable one is Laverne....the one that kinda holds the trio together....for instance When Hugo is saying something to Quasi about reeling Esmerelda in Laverne says she's a girl not a mackeral (type of fish) and there needed to be comedic relief...I mean there was comedic relief in the last "dark Disney" Film The Black Cauldron....can anyone say Gurgi??

Also I agree....Frollo is a very dark villain.....I have always ranked him up as high of Villains you love to hate in equal to Jafar and Malificent and Ursula and Cruella Devile and Scar....

However in the sequel to Hunchback....the villain in that movie doesn't come close to the standards of the darkness of Frollo...though In the Lion King sequel I thought Scar's wife was as affective of a villain as Scar was

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:53 pm 
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ToyStoryFan wrote:
The only thing I would have changed was Frollo killing Quasimodo's mother. I mean, was that really necessary? Sure, it shows just how cruel Frollo was, but for one thing I don't think he meant to kill her. And the story would have been just as powerful had she left the baby off on the steps, maybe even moreso because it shows that not even his own mother wanted him.

No, that would have totally ruïned the movie. It explains how Frollo was more or less forced to take care of Quasimodo. How else should the story have gone? The mother leaves the baby there, Frollo passes along, and in all his goodness he decided to take the child in as his own son? :?

MadasaHatter wrote:
I agree, HB of ND is quite dark and I think the breaks from the heaviness of the film were welcomed.

It's true that the films needs a light-hearted side, but I don't see why it have to be three Timon & Pumbaa-ripoffs with no personality at all, who make obnoxious jokes even during serious scenes.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
ToyStoryFan wrote:
The only thing I would have changed was Frollo killing Quasimodo's mother. I mean, was that really necessary? Sure, it shows just how cruel Frollo was, but for one thing I don't think he meant to kill her. And the story would have been just as powerful had she left the baby off on the steps, maybe even moreso because it shows that not even his own mother wanted him.

No, that would have totally ruïned the movie. It explains how Frollo was more or less forced to take care of Quasimodo. How else should the story have gone? The mother leaves the baby there, Frollo passes along, and in all his goodness he decided to take the child in as his own son? :?


This is what more or less happens in the original novel: the gipsies robbed a mother of her a beautiful little daughter (Esmeralda) and left their own deformed 4 year old child as 'replacement'. Frollo took him up. But since it has to be clear from the start in the Disney version that Frollo is evil, it goes much differently. And it's more sympathetic not to portray gipsies (roma -sorry) as robbing other people of their children.

MadasaHatter wrote:
I agree, HB of ND is quite dark and I think the breaks from the heaviness of the film were welcomed.

It's true that the films needs a light-hearted side, but I don't see why it have to be three Timon & Pumbaa-ripoffs with no personality at all, who make obnoxious jokes even during serious scenes.[/quote]

I agree, Goliath

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