The Hunchback of Notre Dame Discussion

[Kyle]

Do they even allow filming in a place like that? A lot of times places like that are off limits and have to be done in CG anyway.

If they did allow filming, it might not be too hard to digitally restore it, only the roof was destroyed from what I gather.

[Disney Duster]

Some people say they did see a terrorist on the roof with explosives before the fire.

Yes, Disney was probably going to do Notre Dame with CGI and sets anyway.

[unprincess]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a resurgence of the film in way of merchandise and even character appearances at Disneyland Paris.

[JeanGreyForever]

I knew of somebody who hated the film and would go on rants and tantrums about saying how overrated it was compared to other Disney films and deserved to be forgotten and such. Hated when Esmeralda was suggested to join the princess line.

I figure this news will lead to another tantrum.

Ironically enough I know somebody just like this. It would be funny if we were talking about the same person.

Some people say they did see a terrorist on the roof with explosives before the fire.

Where did you hear this nonsense? From a Trumpian source no doubt. Let's not spread ridiculous notions like this which only beget further hate and suspicion.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a resurgence of the film in way of merchandise and even character appearances at Disneyland Paris.

I'd love for this to occur since as of now only Japan features Hunchback characters in merchandise, and by that, I mean namely Esmeralda.

[Disney Duster]

Where did you hear this nonsense? From a Trumpian source no doubt. Let's not spread ridiculous notions like this which only beget further hate and suspicion.

Oh, sorry. If it offends you so or you think it could create hate and suspicon, I won't continue with it here. I only was wondering if anyone else heard of it, and if it was terrorism, that a solution would be to have guards around the cathedral. I meant nothing malicious. I don't think the guy from work I heard it from did either, but I don't know if he supports Trump or that much else about him.

[JeanGreyForever]

Where did you hear this nonsense? From a Trumpian source no doubt. Let's not spread ridiculous notions like this which only beget further hate and suspicion.

Oh, sorry. If it offends you so or you think it could create hate and suspicon, I won't continue with it here. I only was wondering if anyone else heard of it, and if it was terrorism, that a solution would be to have guards around the cathedral. I meant nothing malicious. I don't think the guy from work I heard it from did either, but I don't know if he supports Trump or that much else about him.

Sorry to sound harsh but this comes straight out of Trump's playbook considering the propaganda he's created about Muslims cheering on 9/11. I haven't heard anyone say this about Notre Dame except for the quacks hiding on message boards and social media and I'm circumspect of any allegations when there hasn't been any evidence to suggest otherwise. Guards around the cathedral sounds shockingly similar to Trump saying that churches and schools should be armed now. This wasn't a case of gun violence anyway, which Europe is mostly free from.

[thedisneyspirit]

...The streets around Notre Dame have been heavily guarded for years now, before Trump was even a thing. I recall maybe JeanGrey casually forgot about the 2015 Paris attacks.

[JeanGreyForever]

My point was that we've had multiple attacks at churches and schools in the U.S. and Trump has claimed that clergymen and teachers should be armed in order to combat gun violence, without addressing the actual issue which is that any wack job can get his or her hands on a firearm. And France isn't the only country that has experienced terror attacks. England and just recently Sri Lanka come to mind.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic because the point was that the fire at Notre Dame was not a terror incident in the first place and entertaining the idea that the media is covering this up is what starts discourse like this and breeds further distrust in the media. Considering how many death threats have been issued against American reporters thanks to Trump egging them on, I see no reason to spiral down the rabbit hole even further.

[Disney Duster]

I'm really sorry, I didn't mean for this to spiral in some bad way. I would not arm people at churches, just have guards. I would not just give guns to people! I have no idea how the very innocent-sounding guy I talked to heard the rumour but I'm glad it sounds very far from the truth.

[JeanGreyForever]

You don't need to apologize and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was demonizing you. If there had been a link from a verified source that would have been one thing, but mindless speculation can be dangerous because it's what Trumpians feed on so I'm very suspicious of all this.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, ok. Well thank you for saying that. I just am glad we both know neither of us meant to distress or hurt the feelings of each other.

[JeanGreyForever]

I was watching the laserdisc bonus features for Hunchback and I thought I'd post some interesting facts I had never known before.

We all know the history of the song "Someday" and how it briefly replaced "God Help the Outcasts" before they switched back to "God Help the Outcasts." What I personally didn't know though was that very late in production, Menken and Schwartz both felt that they could bring back the song by featuring it directly after "God Help the Outcasts." As soon as Esmeralda finished singing that song, she would segway into "Someday" and the visuals would showcase all the peasant people and Romani living in Paris. Unfortunately, it was too late in production to add this by the time they thought of it. They both really loved the song which is why they used it as the end-credits song so they could keep it in the film in some shape or form.

As many know, "In a Place of Miracles" and "As Long as There's a Moon" were both songs that were meant to be used in the Court of Miracles scene before being cut. Both Menken and Schwartz mentioned that they really felt the film needed one of these two ballads, as difficult as it was to position a ballad in the final act of a film since they had never done that before in the previous Disney films. They both regretted that the final film couldn't feature either song and that as a result, something feels missing although both still love the end product. Menken admitted that between the two songs, he was more partial to "In a Place of Miracles." Menken especially felt that the previous Disney films all had a love ballad that took a life of its own outside of the film and Hunchback was missing this by removing "In a Place of Miracles." Menken also revealed that a version was recorded, or at least started, featuring the original voice talents of Kevin Kline, Heidi Mollenhauer, Tom Hulce, and Paul Kandel. The version on the laserdisc features Mollenhauer and Hulce as Esmeralda and Quasi respectively but Phoebus' voice is filled in by Menken and I think Clopin's voice is Schwartz's so it's a shame that there is a full version with the original voice talents out there which we haven't heard. Even more reason for Hunchback to have been added to the Legacy Collection.

Schwartz also stated that Hunchback lacked a pop song and that "As Long as There's a Moon" would have worked really well as the film's pop song if they had retained it. He also felt that "As Long as There's a Moon" had really pretty visuals that would have kept the attention of young viewers more whereas "In a Place of Miracles" was more in the vein of "If I Never Knew You." Going back to "In a Place of Miracles," there's some cool concept art in the art galleries that show color versions of the fantasy sequence. I always wondered what that sequence would look like in color.

The storyboards for "Heaven's Light" and "Hellfire" are pretty interesting as well. The former doesn't feature any of the stupid gargoyle gags that end up in the final film like the gargoyles drawing pictures of Esmeralda and Djali with pencil and paper or Laverne bonking Hugo on the head. "Hellfire" clearly shows that the apparition of Esmeralda in the flames was unclothed, but even more risque than that was the ghost-like apparition of Esmeralda, that Frollo tries to embrace, was clearly not clothed at all and without the flames to cover her up or blend into her, it's very apparent that she's completely naked.

[Marce82]

About Hell fire..... DAAAAAMN!!!!

[Farerb]

It's too bad these songs were cut, but A Guy Like You remains.

[JeanGreyForever]

Agreed. I loathe "A Guy Like You." It's actually not even that bad as a song itself, but you can tell it's been shoehorned into the film and I hate the anachronisms.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/aa9c628c0f5 ... 4_1280.jpg
What's interesting is that if you look at this sequence list of Hunchback early on in production, there was no "A Guy Like You." This is still when "Someday" and "In a Place of Miracles" were in the film (and in fact, Menken mentioned in the laserdisc extras that "Someday" was part of the film's production for much longer than "God Help the Outcasts" was so it must have been a last minute decision to swap the songs) and "A Guy Like You" and 'The Court of Miracles" don't exist. Imo, those are the film's two weakest songs so I almost want to revert back to this version of the film.

Another interesting thing is the inclusion of a dungeon scene that starts off Act 3 before the execution scene. In the film's commentary, it's mentioned that Frollo was supposed to offer Esmeralda her freedom in the dungeons, before this was changed so that he gives her his ultimatum right while she's tied at the stake. If they had kept the dungeon scene, Menken and Schwartz might have realized they can segway straight to "Someday" as she's led to her execution, like they finally figured out for the stage productions.

[Disney Duster]

Interesting! And right you guys are right, all of you! Needed "Someday" and "In a Place of Miracles" instead of "A Guy Like You" and Esmeralda could sing "Someday" when lead to her death. The stage show did it best.

[Farerb]

I think Someday could have worked but I understand the pacing issue with In a A Place of Miracles. Though I don't really care about pacing and the song is beautiful.

[JeanGreyForever]

I don't even get the pacing issue. Especially since the directors cut the song out not because of pacing but because they felt the song took too much attention off of Quasimodo. Even though the first half of the song, he's in agony watching Esmeralda and Phoebus together. Then in the second half, he takes over and envisions his own fantasy sequence/miracle where he is a regular looking guy and can dance with Esmeralda himself. Yet, at the end of it, he realizes that even if he did have looks, Esmeralda would still belong together with Phoebus. He finally makes peace with this and toasts the happy couple (which leads to Clopin hinting towards his real heritage) and unites their hands together like he does at the end of the film. There's never any explanation in the final film as to what makes him okay with Esmeralda and Phoebus being together so I felt this was a missed moment.

This is the only song that features all the main characters, minus Frollo. I also liked how the song was a ballad between the couple because many people critiqued Esmeralda for picking Phoebus over Quasimodo but I think this song helps clear that up a little, the way If I Never Knew You did for people who felt Pocahontas and John Smith's romance was shallow. Here we realize that Esmeralda has become jaded over the years and didn't believe she would ever find love but now she's found her miracle after all.

[Farerb]

The pacing issue is that supposedly the song takes place after Quasimodo and Phoebos are freed, but we know that Frollo followed them so he just wait for this song to end? The Palace of Miracles scene needs to be quick enough.

[JeanGreyForever]

This is more a critique fans have though than anything the directors or songwriters ever brought up, so if they don't see it as an issue, it doesn't bother me either.

Also, Frollo and his men must have kept their distance because neither Quasi or Phoebus ever notice anyone following them. And the Court of Miracles was essentially in a labyrinth of Paris catacombs and they were only able to find the exact location because Clopin and his men seized them when they first detected their presence. It would likely take more time for Frollo and his men to search the tunnels and find the exact location of the Court of Miracles without a guide.