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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:49 pm 
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abenotgabe wrote:
jpanimation, check the the link below and scroll down to my post.
http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 7&start=40
I talked about this and posted screen caps 2 days after I got the 3D edition. Yes, the difference is actually significantly noticeable. I never really understood what color change everyone was talking about until I watched the 3D version and noticed it with my own eyes. I have to say the colors look so much better on the 3D than they do on the standard Diamond. Infact whenever I watch BatB, I pop in the 3D disc and switch my TV to 2D mode. Sorry you missed my post, good luck finding the 3D edition, you still have time.

So you did, credit goes to you for bringing this up. You see, since I already knew those movies were getting 3D releases, I didn't even bother with that thread, hence I missed your posts. Maybe if it had been in a thread dedicated to Beauty and the Beast or it's colors I would've noticed. The other problem is that you were taking pictures off your TV to use as evidence. If anything, it backfired, as it made the two look exactly the same and dampened the credibility of your argument (despite you being 100% right).

Disney Duster wrote:
I prefer the lack of red hue, but I don't like how yellow things look in the 3D one, either. But the contrast in the 3D one is GREAT, much better than the Diamond.

The yellow in the opening Belle number looks like a less washed out version of the LaserDisc, so I'm fine with it. I find the ballroom to be the only thing bothersome when it comes to yellow. Everything else looks miles better then the 2D release.

I'm hoping that if enough people complain to Disney, even those who are apathetic towards this whole color debacle, that they'd start a replacement program with the newly corrected colors (director's preferred colors?). It's not too late, they started the Pinocchio replacement program about a month before it went OOP, so their is still time to complain (I'm also reaching out to those who are not members of Ultimate Disney but are reading this right now, contact Disney).

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I know this will sound a bit naiive... but does anyone else feel cheated by Disney?
When the original platinum edition came out, I was so ticked off by the over-scanned framing and the "human again" modifications that I barely noticed the colors.
When the diamond edition came out with (almost) correct framing and (supposedly) better colors, I was happy (until I noticed they cut the original scene of Mrs Potts kissing chip after Something There). THe colors at times did seem too pink...
And now, with this comparison... I feel like I put my money into a completely tampered version of the film. And I have no intention of buying a 3-D blu ray player... what the f...!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:35 pm 
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I feel cheated. I am okay with the new colors since the directors say they made them more how they wanted them to look when they first made it, but all the other alterations like the changes to the end of "Something There" with the wrong shot and no kiss for Chip...they cheated us. I wish I could see the future and know if a correct version will come out because I'd rather have bought that.

jpanimation wrote:
The yellow in the opening Belle number looks like a less washed out version of the LaserDisc, so I'm fine with it. I find the ballroom to be the only thing bothersome when it comes to yellow. Everything else looks miles better then the 2D release.

I feel like the red hint was good for those opening Belle scenes because they happen at sunrise and sunset and skies can look pink or orange but I've never known them to look yellow. The 3D version sometimes looks a little washed out to me. If you don't know what I mean, I cna't explain it but that's how some of it looks. The washed-out look when the Beast is sad looks right to me because it makes sense to me that the sky would be more gray during a storm than green. Also the Beast's cape looks more brown than royal purplely red in the Diamond and I don't feel that's right.

However, I suppose none of this matters if it all matches the Laserdisc more. But does the Laserdisc or any other "correct" color versions not have quite as yellow a sky or quite as brown a cape?

One thing I feel like is right is that Belle shouldn't have a very orange or yellow dress. I've seen pictures where it looks like there's a dark gold (think almost more brown than orange or yellow) bodice, gloves, and trim, but the skirt and lighter parts look like a very pale yellow-white and that was the loveliest I've seen it. Unless I am dis-remembering/imagining things, which is very possible for those little memories.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:03 pm 
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enigmawing wrote:
It's the same when watching a 3D movie. Switching it out into 2D mode means only getting one of the two "eyes," if that makes sense, so some objects may feel moved, skewed, or can disappear altogether.


This isn't distortion though. The end result will just be a slightly reframed image. Of course they had to distort beauty and the beast since it was originally flat to get that second eye, but what Im curious about is how it was done. Did they more or less take the original movie, leave as is and assign it to an eye, then create the second eye? or are both eyes distorted from the original to sorta meet half way? Because if it's the former, and the 3D version with the feature turned off, the image should be framed just as it always was. But I half a feeling they took the second route with it. Either way, I can't imagine there would be a lot of cut off. The movie didn't have a ton of depth to cause that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Marce82 wrote:
I was happy (until I noticed they cut the original scene of Mrs Potts kissing chip after Something There).

I'm still not cool with that. I just don't understand how the fan community rallied around a missing line in Pinocchio but they could care less if there is a missing scene in Beauty and the Beast. I'd also like the blue castle logo back but I don't see that happening. At least there is hope with the other two mistakes.

Disney Duster wrote:
I am okay with the new colors since the directors say they made them more how they wanted them to look when they first made it

or did they? This brings to question, what version were they talking about in those interviews? Were they talking about the original Blu-ray or the 3D Blu-ray (the one that was also in theaters at the time)? Makes you wonder if this was the version they assumed was on disc the first time and it's the version they were talking about.

Disney Duster wrote:
Also the Beast's cape looks more brown than royal purplely red in the Diamond and I don't feel that's right.

They you'd really hate the LaserDisc, it's a dark maroon, almost brownish at times. The 3D version more closely resembles this.

Disney Duster wrote:
However, I suppose none of this matters if it all matches the Laserdisc more.

Only if the LaserDisc is truly the correct version. I just happen to think it matches the theatrical more (from what I can remember) and looks more natural, so I use it as a jumping off point when discussing the colors.

Disney Duster wrote:
But does the Laserdisc or any other "correct" color versions not have quite as yellow a sky or quite as brown a cape?

The sky is a washed out white with a hint of yellow, not at all red, while Beast's cape is a dark maroon (almost brownish at times).

Disney Duster wrote:
One thing I feel like is right is that Belle shouldn't have a very orange or yellow dress. I've seen pictures where it looks like there's a dark gold (think almost more brown than orange or yellow) bodice, gloves, and trim, but the skirt and lighter parts look like a very pale yellow-white and that was the loveliest I've seen it. Unless I am dis-remembering/imagining things, which is very possible for those little memories.

I still think what we saw in The Princess and the Frog trailer is the most accurate but I suspect they accidentally released that. Like Lucas with Star Wars; "Theatrical what? Only this version exists"

Image

Which is one of my concerns about the switch to digital distribution, specifically when utilizing streaming. With a physical media, at least we can hold on to it if they mess up a new release. With streaming, if they decide to alter a film in any way, then you have nothing to fall back on. You're stuck with what they give you.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Kyle wrote:
enigmawing wrote:
It's the same when watching a 3D movie. Switching it out into 2D mode means only getting one of the two "eyes," if that makes sense, so some objects may feel moved, skewed, or can disappear altogether.

This isn't distortion though. The end result will just be a slightly reframed image. Of course they had to distort beauty and the beast since it was originally flat to get that second eye, but what Im curious about is how it was done. Did they more or less take the original movie, leave as is and assign it to an eye, then create the second eye? or are both eyes distorted from the original to sorta meet half way? Because if it's the former, and the 3D version with the feature turned off, the image should be framed just as it always was. But I half a feeling they took the second route with it. Either way, I can't imagine there would be a lot of cut off. The movie didn't have a ton of depth to cause that.

I was specifically speaking of B&tB there; obviously they had to distort something hand-drawn, there'd be no need to distort something that's a stereogram made with real photos. I suspect that the production stills are two new images in order to keep things centered properly as opposed to one being original and one new, but what would I know? :p

(edited for clarity)

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Last edited by Elladorine on Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Well, as for color distortion... at times it's hard to make out what the filmmakers intended. But when the "white" in the eyes is pink... that gives me pause.
Also... I DO remember the original theatrical release of BATB... and one thing I do remember for sure, is that Belle's hair was brown. Not maroon, not dark red...
How come these color issues don't happen with Aladdin? Or Pocahontas??


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:56 pm 
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I'm on my phone and don't feel like reading through all these long posts so I dont know if this has been clarified yet or not... But are the fixed colors only on the actual 3d bluray? Or are they on the 2d bluray that was released in the 3d combo pack as well?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Only the 3D disc has the corrected colors. The included 2D disc is the same printing as before. This makes me wonder as to whether Disney is lazy or just unaware of the problem. This is why I urge people to contact them.

Looks like someone on HTF noticed the color were fixed for the 3D release a while back, via the trailer alone:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/31512 ... st_3874392

I think the screen capture he made says it all. Since they have the 2D files with the corrected colors handy to make a trailer, it shouldn't be to hard for them to put it on the disc and issue a replacement program.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:00 pm 
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I just don't see a replacement program happening unfortunately. Both B&B and The Lion king should get one in my opinion. I was watching the new Lion King transfer on the Disney Channel over the weekend, its so bad. I refuse to buy the movie in this state.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:04 pm 
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^The difference being that Roger Allers said he intentionally altered the colors in The Lion King. The fact that a corrected version of Beauty and the Beast exists only proves that they weren't intentional. I think The Lion King should get replacement program for the damn missing clouds. As minor as it may seem to some, having the camera cut away twice to any empty sky just doesn't makes sense at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:17 am 
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jpanimation wrote:
I think The Lion King should get replacement program for the damn missing clouds. As minor as it may seem to some, having the camera cut away twice to any empty sky just doesn't makes sense at all.


I completely agree. I try to just shrug it off, but it looks so choppy and awful. I always LOVED that shot of the clouds too. Such an important scene, so it's shame it's nothing but irritating now.

Let me know if a petition exists to get a replacement disc, cause I'd gladly sign it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:20 am 
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Yes Lion King needs a replacement, and let's get other fixes besides just the clouds! What are the other changes?

Enigmawing I forgot to say you gave a perfect explanation, thank you! Except we still don't know how Disney did that with their originally 2D film!

jpanimation wrote:
I just don't understand how the fan community rallied around a missing line in Pinocchio but they could care less if there is a missing scene in Beauty and the Beast. I'd also like the blue castle logo back but I don't see that happening. At least there is hope with the other two mistakes.

How would you like us to conact Disney? How did the Pinocchio line get fixed? How do we do stuff like this? (We should work on getting Tangled and Frozen changed, too! But we may need a much bigger campaign)

jpanimation wrote:
This brings to question, what version were they talking about in those interviews? Were they talking about the original Blu-ray or the 3D Blu-ray (the one that was also in theaters at the time)? Makes you wonder if this was the version they assumed was on disc the first time and it's the version they were talking about.

From my memory it was well before the 3D version was even done. It was right when the Diamond, not the 3D Blu-ray, came out. I'm sorry but I am almost 100% certain they meant the Diamond.

Here is the original place where we found the interview, much earlier than any announcements for the 3D version. Scroll down to find Escapay's post first presenting it:

http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=520

jpanimation wrote:
The sky is a washed out white with a hint of yellow, not at all red, while Beast's cape is a dark maroon (almost brownish at times).

I've seen it look washed out white with a hint of pink, not yellow. Pink(ish orange/yellow) looks better to me and also makes more sense to me as I said.

jpanimation wrote:
I still think what we saw in The Princess and the Frog trailer is the most accurate but I suspect they accidentally released that. Like Lucas with Star Wars; "Theatrical what? Only this version exists"

Image

I dunno. I think in this image below, A and B are what look best for her dress, though I still feel I've seen a very lovely whiter version of her skirt...oh well. The image:

http://imageshack.us/f/718/bigbeautyand ... tcomp.jpg/

jpanimation wrote:
Which is one of my concerns about the switch to digital distribution, specifically when utilizing streaming. With a physical media, at least we can hold on to it if they mess up a new release. With streaming, if they decide to alter a film in any way, then you have nothing to fall back on. You're stuck with what they give you.

Get in that Lady and the Tramp thread and say that! It's brilliantly right!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:25 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Yes Lion King needs a replacement, and let's get other fixes besides just the clouds! What are the other changes?

As much as I'd love to remove the director's changes, I think we should be realistic and concentrate on getting unintentional mistakes corrected instead. The clouds are the only mess up that I know of, besides maybe the missing blue castle logo that resulted in the beginning audio being cutoff. It may just be sound-effects but it sets up the movie.

Disney Duster wrote:
How would you like us to conact Disney? How did the Pinocchio line get fixed? How do we do stuff like this?

Oh sorry, I never posted the link:

http://www.disneystudioshelp.com/Contact_Us.html

I've emailed them with no reply back and I've called them only to get the standard "I'm sorry to hear that, we're unaware of the problem but will pass it along. If you leave us you're contact information, we'll be sure to let you know if a replacement program is implemented".

As for Pinocchio, after enough calls they we're given a memo that it was part of a replacement program. That's all that happened there and I'm hoping it'll happen here (if only enough people cared). This may be our last chance to own this on a physical format and it's about to go OOP. So it is urgent that everyone contact Disney now to let them know about this problem.

Disney Duster wrote:
From my memory it was well before the 3D version was even done. It was right when the Diamond, not the 3D Blu-ray, came out. I'm sorry but I am almost 100% certain they meant the Diamond.

IDK, I remember a 3D version was supposed to be released in theaters months before the Diamond Edition release and to my memory, it was in select countries (well before the US release). I remember at the time people claiming the colors were better in theaters then what was on the Diamond Edition, but I thought they were mistaking the darkness caused by the 3D glasses as better, so I wrote it off.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:17 pm 
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Your memory lines up with mine, I think they had the 3D version done long before anyone got a chance to see it in the first place so he could have easily been referring to this one. Hard to say.

And I agree, unintentional mistakes should be taken care of first. In addition to the missing clouds I have to wonder if the missing shadow was intended later in the movie. (This is only present in the 3D version)
The audio as well, they had a great home threater mix on the platinum edition, but gave us an inferior mix for the blu ray. There's also some glitch apparently when the audio skips at a certain moment during the circle of life. All of this seems like reason enough to offer replacement discs.

Hope Im not derailing too much but another thing I wish they would offer a replacement for, Toy Story 3, to correct this massive animation errorthat surprisingly hadn't been caught by anyone at Pixar until I pointed it out to Lee Unkrich. I hoped they would have corrected it by the time the 3D blu ray had been released, but nope. It was my favorite shot before I noticed it, now I can't unsee it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:15 pm 
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I did the contact thing. I selected Technical question, Region A for my Samsung Blu-ray player since I really have no idea, I didn't buy it, and I didn't put the model, but anyway, I wrote:

I bought the Beauty and the Beast: Diamond Edition Blu-ray and noticed the colors were different and brighter than the original VHS release I had and when I saw it in theaters. But when I saw the movie in 3D, both in theaters and on Blu-ray, the film had colors much closer to the ones from the original release. So I would like to know which colors the filmakers want the film to be, and if they want the brighter ones, if they could release a limited number of Blu-rays that have the old original colors. Thank you.

So, I hope that was good for this. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:26 pm 
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I sent them an e-mail over the Beauty and the Beast color issue as well. Mine was a bit longer, giving examples such as the scene where Belle is trying to free Maurice from the dungeon. (You can SEE the Beast CLEARLY the whole time whereas on the VHS he was in shadow) And noted the side-by-side comparisons fans have done throughout the years as well. I hope we can get some sort of replacement program before this goes back to the dreaded vault. But I doubt it.

Also, I've read there was something about Pinocchio's blu-ray? What was the story there?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:28 am 
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Yea, getting specific is good!

CRAP! I forgot to tell them about the scene where you see the enchanted objects without Belle and the Beast at the fireplace and the missing scene of Mrs. Potts kissing Chip! I guess I'll have to send another E-mail.

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 Post subject: Okay, so...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:33 am 
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Hello~

Okay, so...since the three images are labelled "A" (Top), "B" (Middle), and "C" (Bottom), does one of them represent the original, official 1991 colors of "Beauty and The Beast"?

Have a Disneylicious day!
:?:


Image[/quote]
I dunno. I think in this image below, A and B are what look best for her dress, though I still feel I've seen a very lovely whiter version of her skirt...oh well. The image:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:55 pm 
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So, I got a response from Disney to my e-mail.

What I sent them: "Hi! I'm contacting you to inquire about the colors in the blu-ray version of Beauty and the Beast. From viewing the film's original VHS release, one can see that the colors were much more dark and the scenes where Belle gets Maurice out of the dungeon, the Beast is in shadow, as he is implied to be throughout the scene. However, viewing this scene on the Diamond edition blu-ray, one can SEE the beast pretty clearly all throughout! In addition, the colors throughout the film are much BRIGHTER. There have been several fans of the film I know who have done side-by-side comparisons of the colors in both versions (VHS and Blu-ray) and the difference is quite clear. Furthermore, it has been brought to attention by fans that the recent RE-release of Beauty and the Beast on the 3D-BLU-RAY format has colors much closer to the VHS. I'm wondering, will there be some sort of replacement program perhaps, for those of us who bought the original Diamond release, one with colors closer to the original?"

What THEY sent me: "Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your interest and are happy to answer your questions.

The 3D Blu-ray release is the Theatrical version of the movie. This was the way this film was released."

...

Yeah...um...So I guess they're implying that it's okay since the regular old blu-ray isn't the theatrical release? :roll:


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