Pixar's Brave (formerly The Bear and the Bow)
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Author:  Rumpelstiltskin [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Pixar's Brave (formerly The Bear and the Bow)

At least the theme seems to be related to something celtic. perhaps containing druids and old oaks and such. I like animated features based on old Europe, but usually it's tales from sources such as the Grimm Brothers or H.C. Andersen. Nice to see they are still able to find inspiration in other materialas now and then.

Author:  Siren [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:35 pm ]
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I have a lot of mythology books, I will look it up and let you know if I find anything.

Author:  2099net [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:23 pm ]
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Doing a google search for
"bear and the bow" -pixar -disney
doesn't bring up anything of interest, so I'm pretty sure its an all new story.

Author:  Rumpelstiltskin [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:34 pm ]
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Thanks, but I didn't mean if it was based on an already existing celtic tale, but if it is a movie with elements from the celtic mythology, classifying it as a modern story about the subject. All I know is that it takes place in ancient Scotland.

Author:  singerguy04 [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:16 pm ]
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Wasn't there someone from Pixar that wanted to do a film about a Irish princess? maybe this is it?

Author:  Disneykid [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:51 pm ]
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It was actually a Scottish princess that was mentioned (in a Disney Consumer Products press release, I think), so it's got to be this film they were talking about. It's great seeing Pixar branch out from their usual comedies. Not that they were feeling formulaic, but I think a genre change is in their favor, especially considering how few CG films nowadays are anything but comedies.

Author:  Atlantica [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:53 pm ]
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Do you think Reese Witherspoon will adopt a Scottish accent for the movie? Or do you think it will just be set in Scotland, and thats it.

Author:  Siren [ Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:08 pm ]
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Just because the title of the movie is Bear and the Bow doesn't mean the original story had the same title. It may also be an adaptation of a celtic tale, they may have changed so much that a title change was made.

Author:  2099net [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:53 am ]
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It's possible it is loosely adapted from an existing tale, but I doubt it. None of the existing Disney fairytale films have had a name change at all, least of all a drastic one. And if it is adapted from an existing fable I doubt it is from a Scottish/British/Irish one.

I'm not sure how important the bear in the title is, but I know of not one single folk or fairy tale from this area that includes one. Bear's were hunted to extinction in all of the UK in the early middle ages - the time of knights in armour, the crusades and probably Robin Hood, depending on who and what you believe (around the 1000-1200 AD).

I know not on one single story featuring one - even the myths and legends around Robin Hood do not feature bears, even though he was by most accounts a contemporary (save for perhaps domesticated dancing bears at fairs and festivals but most people think these were added much later).

If it is adapted from an existing tale, I would suggest it is more likely to be a Eastern European one, where to this day bears still exist in sizable numbers (unlike Western Europe), relocated to Scotland.

Now, bringing up Scotland brings up another bugbear (no pun intended) of mine about this film, especailly after reading the cast list. If it is set in a named, existant country, what are Pixar/Disney going to do about the voices? I would say accents would just be ignored - especially with the casting of Reece Witherspoon. I have no doubt Emma Thompson can do a Scottish accent. The casting of Billy Connolly seems to imply Scottish accents will be used, as he has a very strong accent and I've never heard him not use it. But then, why cast Reece? Even when doing Finding Nemo, Pixar cast Australians for all the parts requiring an Australian accent.

Author:  Prudence [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:08 am ]
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Emma Thompson is going to be in it? This film keeps sounding better and better. :) I have some friends who are both very Scottish -and- Irish, who are extremely proud of their heritages. I shall ask them if the plotline sounds familar. (These are female, fairy tale and legend loving friends. Not the "Get me drunk, I'm Celtic!" type -- at least not usually.)

Author:  Siren [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:38 am ]
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Celtic mythology does have a bear goddess, Artio. Whether or not this movie will involve her, I don't know. Too early to tell. Artio is believed to have basis in the Greek goddess, Artemis. Artemis was the daughter of Zeus and a mortal woman. When she grew up, she ran off into the woods and lived and hunted with Nymphs. Taking a vow of chastity. She had a deep respect for animals and a hatred of humans. And she hunted with a bow.

Though I doubt the movie will involve her to that extent, if at all, it does show there are myths in Celtic beliefs that involve bears of some form. I am still looking to see if I find anything.

Author:  2099net [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:23 am ]
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It's true that there are Celtic myths and I suppose legends which feature bears and other forest creatures, but generally speaking these aren't common knowledge today. They're too old and lost in the mists of time. Of course around the world there are of course exceptions to this – most noticeably Greek and Roman mythology. But it could be argued in the case of those two, the academic interest in those great historical empires is what kept the stories in circulation over the centuries, rather than the stories themselves.

Most "fairytales" are very modern historically, even if some do have roots in mythology of old. Even stories "of" the time the Bow and the Bear is likely to be set, were written or refined much later – such as the modern "popular" mythology surrounding Robin Hood or King Arthur.

The fact that nobody here, including those who have interests in Celtic history/tales or various mythologies, or even those who live in the country the story is located haven't heard of the story, or one similar shows that if is it a traditional Celtic/Scottish myth, it's not a popular one. It's not like Disney/Pixar is turning around and making another "Rapunzel" or "Little Mermaid" where the story is at worst, vaguely known by the bulk of adults before the film is made. I still personally think it will be a modern take specifically created for the film.

Also, if this is from an ancient myth, I doubt it will be a traditional Disney "Princess" movie in most respects. That's one of the advantages or disadvantages of setting it in a specific country and (presumably) at a recognized period too. It has to have some historical accuracy, no matter how vague, to justify its setting – or else, why bother? Why not have it set in a vague never-existent Celtic never land full of Will-O'-the-Wips, Banshees and sea/loch monsters and fairies? Disney has always played it reasonably smart with their Princess movies, with the possible exception of Pinocchio, as they seem to take place in a make believe Europe, with inhabitants and influences from many different countries.

What I'm saying is, Disney/Pixar, be that taking and adapting a Scottish myth or adapting/creating a modern tale, have by naming the country an obligation to be true and faithful to the country.

Oh and Siren, surely Celtic mythology is more likely to have been inspired by Roman (or Norse) mythology rather than Greek? (Although I know Roman mythology shared many Greek mythological aspects).

Also, from my understanding, Wolves and Werewolves are a lot more common than bears (probably Nordic influences). Well, much more common Celtic mythology from say around 1000 AD onwards.

Another edit
I'm actually facinated by this thread, and I've looked up "Artio" on Wikipedia and I'm a little surprised by the lack of information. I know Wikipedia isn't always the best of sources, but it only lists 1 actual representation (and its in Switzerland!), and no examples of stories or myths containing the goddess - which again seems to support my argument that the vast majority of mythology from that time is either lost or mainly known now by academia rather than the general population.

Author:  Siren [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:45 am ]
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Check out godchecker.com. Wiki only has what info people put on afterall. But that specific website has info on many gods and goddesses, including very obscure ones. I got the name Artio from a book and then began trying to google it and found that site.

http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/celt ... eity=ARTIO

I doubt the movie is specifically based on the myth, but there are some small coincidences. And there are myths of bears in Celtic mythology. That was the only point I was trying to make. I have not found any reference to the story at hand, so I figure they may have taken bits and pieces of Celtic lore and put them together for an original story. Much as Brother Bear was done, as there are many many tales of "skinwalkers", which is essentially what Kenei became.

Author:  Wonderlicious [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:07 pm ]
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I personally believe that The Bear and the Bow will be an original story. Whilst it obviously will be taking bits and bobs from Scottish folklore, I don't think that Pixar will be making a film directly based on a previously existing story in the same way that the likes of the upcoming Rapunzel is. I'd see it in the same way as an Andersen story. Unlike the Grimms, who adapted oral tales to print, Hans Christian Andersen mainly wrote stories from his own imagination, though nearly all of his tales, be it Thumbelina, The Ugly Duckling, The Little Mermaid or any other, were inspired very very much so by existing fairy literature and folklore. I also think that The Princess and the Frog will be like The Bear and the Bow in form (since I personally predict that it will be basically the story of The Frog Prince, but with flappers and witch doctors instead of knights and fairies).

By the way, Netty, you mention Pinocchio as a "princess" movie. I never knew it was... ;)

Author:  Rumpelstiltskin [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:07 pm ]
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I read a short article earlier today where it was mentioned what the director got the inspiration from (I think there was an outdoor picture of Brenda Chapman next to a horse and a couple of other persons, if my memory is correct), but it's impossible to find it once more for some reason. For all I know it no longer exists.

Luckely there are another article about the subject:

"PRINCE OF EGYPT director Brenda Chapman, together with producer Katherine Sarafian (from the Pixar short LIFTED), introduced Pixar's THE BEAR AND THE BOW, a Celtic-themed legend targeted for a Christmas 2011 release. Against a background of concept paintings and character designs (many reminiscent of Victorian illustrator Arthur Rackham), Chapman described the factors inspiring her original story: her love of Brothers Grimm-style dark fairy tales, the landscapes of Scotland ("it's very rugged and masculine, yet it has a feminine aspect -- there's something growing on everything") and her daughter Emma Rose's fiery personality, the inspiration for the film's Princess Merida. "She has one of the most important traits of all," Sarafian observed, "great hair."

The film abounds in mythic elements, including an ancient ring of stones (that exists in real-life Scotland and is older than Stonehenge), a secret cave, a witch (or "wise woman," depending on your perspective) and a cursed beast -- a 15-foot-tall bear. Oscar winner Reese Witherspoon voices Merida, while Billy Connolly and Emma Thompson portray her royal parents and Julie Waters (Ron Weasley's mom in the HARRY POTTER movies) is the wise woman."

http://news.awn.com/index.php?ltype=top ... m_no=22844

P.S. Since it is now confirmed that it contains celtic mythology and is an original idea, I changed the title of the thread.

Author:  Disney's Divinity [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:12 pm ]
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Julie Walters?!!!! I want this movie now. In fact, all of Pixar's films look extremely interesting (with the possible exception of Newt).

Author:  Applefied [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:39 pm ]
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Im not really sure what to make of this after hearing the discription.

So is this Scottish Princess gonna become a Disney Princess? no1 seems to know about Rapunzel due to her being 3D and Giselle got the bump...

A Celtic Disney Story....lets just hope it's not be like that bomb of a film "Quest For Camelot" hopefully they'll do better than Warner Bros did.

Author:  Siren [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:48 pm ]
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Brenda Chapman has worked on several great movies. Prince of Egypt, Lion King, Hunchback, Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and more. I have confidence in this movie now more than ever. Her saying about the dark Grimm tales....awesome. So I take it this won't be an adorable princess movie. Not that there is anything wrong with them, I like them, but its nice to get something different for a change. And I like the darker stuff better anyways. I am really excited about this one.

Author:  SpringHeelJack [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:11 pm ]
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Applefied wrote:
So is this Scottish Princess gonna become a Disney Princess?

I don't see why she would, since this is Pixar. Frankly, Giselle shouldn't have ever been considered, IMO, as the Princesses should only be from the fully animated features.

Author:  Disney's Divinity [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:44 pm ]
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SpringHeelJack wrote:
I don't see why she would, since this is Pixar. Frankly, Giselle shouldn't have ever been considered, IMO, as the Princesses should only be from the fully animated features.
I agree, but this brings into question what exactly will happen with Rapunzel. Aside from the 2D/3D conflict, she looks a lot like Aurora as well.

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