Disney Duster wrote:
Hey guys! I suffer from depression, but I wanted you to know, I actually like this movie and a lot of things about it, but I also enjoy talking about what I think was bad and could be changed, and I love talking about dresses. I just love talking to you guys and it's perfect for a depressed guy!
nomad2010 wrote:
I still to this day am in disbelief of how bad this dress was. It’s arguably the most famous dress in cinema history. When she walks down the staircase, jaws should have dropped. The fact that Disney approved it, and allowed such a flimsy, prom dress-looking concoction with such tacky modern day, could’ve been bought at any department store jewelry... it’s mind boggling. Especially when the rest of the film had such a strict adherence to the time period.
Don’t even get me started on how awful the cinematography is during that scene. It may be some of the worst in cinema history in my books.
I am unsure whether Belle's dress or Cinderella's (and
JeanGreyForever brought up Scarlett O'Hara's) dress is the more famous one in history. I really don't know. Yes, I am biased towards Cinderella, and I also know that I think more people in the world actually think Belle's dress is the more impressive one, but Cinderella's is so famous for the whole movie kind of being
about the dress, and it's the transformation scene that is once again
about that Cinderella dress, not the dance in it, that is most famous from that movie. But I would not be surprised if we polled the world and Belle's dress won, lol. I just pick Cinderella's form as much as I know.
The cinematography in the film, or the direction, I really don't know which to blame, was really awful. There were like no good shots of anything!!! If you want to see how a live-action remake dance between to people falling in love should be done, watch the Cinderella live-action remake.
UmbrellaFish wrote:
Well, I might make fun of the dress but I wouldn’t make fun of your taste. Besides, very often I agree with your takes on dresses- not here though!
Oh, it's ok. In fact, I thank you for saying that!
JeanGreyForever wrote:
You're not alone Duster, I don't think this dress is really that bad either. It may not be something that I would look at once and feel the need to own but I would never put it on the worst dressed list either. Now that Lena Dunham outfit on the next page...yikes.
Thanks for saying that about Sarah Silverman's! I don't know how to see the Lena Dunham outfit. Link?
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'd probably give most famous dress in cinema history to Cinderella's ballgown (or maybe one of Scarlett O'Hara's outfits) but Belle's ballgown is certainly one of the most iconic. Disney wanted to keep Emma Watson happy so they gave her free range and creative control of the character, probably to ensure that Emma would feel comfortable with a more liberated version of Belle so that online, Belle couldn't be criticized as regressive or a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. The necklace was really awful and I just found out recently that she's wearing a ring as well which is so bland and generic.
And honestly, the quality of the cinematography becomes clear when you see the production shots of the scene and realize that Dan Stevens was in a full mo-cap suit so no wonder there was no magic in the performance. Who could possibly feel into their performance dancing alongside this in one of the most romantic scenes in cinema?
AGREED!!!! You know, I didn't realize it, but maybe that's why they gave Emma so much freedom. To keep her in their movie. By any chance, was it written into her contract she had a right to change things about her character, even down to what she wore?
I hate to give the idea that I hate this film because there are a lot of things I really love about it (and we should totally discuss the things we love about this film too) and I was super hyped for this film when it came out. But after several years I can more clearly see the faults and frankly that puts this down as one of the more middling remakes. Not nearly as bad as Maleficent but definitely not the best like Cinderella and from what I've seen online, that's the general consensus.
And I like I said to Duster earlier, I live to hear shade thrown at the dress.
Cinderella's ballgown is much older for starters so you have 41 years of nostalgia and generations growing up with it. And like you said, the film and story is known for the dress. Belle's ballgown only became famous because of the Disney film. It's possible that Belle's dress is more popular than Cinderella's gown in terms of people preferring it but I'd say that in terms of being better known and more iconic, that would still be Cinderella's dress. Not to mention, Cinderella is the face of the Disney Princess franchise and at least she used to be the most popular princess by far. She's also the face of the Disney Parks with her castle and anyone in any country knows who Cinderella is.
The Cinderella live-action dance sequence is considered absolutely beloved in England. When Lily James got a role in the BBC adaptation of War and Peace shortly afterwards, everyone in England was hyped about it comparing it to the dance scene in Cinderella because of how iconic that became. I've never heard anything even remotely similar be used to describe the BATB dance sequence from the remake.
The Lena Dunham outfit was in the same link as the Sarah Silverman one. You just click the next button and her dress popped up. I clicked on it by accident so that's how I saw it.
I don't know how much Emma Watson was contractually given besides the fact that if the film made a certain amount of money, Emma Watson would get a huge bonus and the film did make way more than that so Emma surely did get that bonus. Disney clearly wanted to hire her for a while since she was a choice for Cinderella (I don't remember if she was the original choice or just a potential choice) and she thankfully turned that down.
farerb wrote:
The cinematography was awful indeed. I would even say that the framing is awful as well. What comes to my mind is the West Wing scene after Belle flees, there's a baffling wide shot that doesn't let us have a clear view on his facial expression, like in the original where we could see that he has an expression of regret. This actually might be a good thing cause in the remake it seems like he cares more about the rose than the fact that he's messed up, which doesn't surprise me cause he views Belle as beneath him anyway - "a daughter of a theif" or insulting her literally taste. What does surprise me is that he went after her. All the changes to the remake Beast makes him a different character so to me it doesn't really make sense character-wise other than "it happened in the original". I don't even understand why he was upset at her at all cause he never told her not to go into the West Wing. Lumiere and Cogsworth did and only because they suddenly remembered it, it wasn't even planned.
This is what I mean when I say that they kept plot points the same but gave them an a different illogical context. It's like they made a check list, did it without actually putting effort into the set up that actually made these scenes work in the first place, and then added a bunch of unnecessary crap cause the film needs to be longer while the original used its 84 minutes so effectively.
This turned out to be longer than I anticipated.
Anyway, Disney Duster, I think you said something about the original Belle not having sleeves as well in another thread, but to me it's not about it being sleeveless that makes it seem awkward, it's the fact that her entire arms are completely bare. Original Belle had that thing, I guess I'm gonna call it "sleeves" covering part of her upper arms and she had the gloves, which make it more elegant.
The next time I rewatch this film (although I have no plans to do so anytime soon lol) I'll have to pay specific attention to the West Wing scene. I honestly don't even remember how it went in the remake which shows how much of an impact it left on me. I didn't remember that the Beast never tells Belle to go to the West Wing either which I agree doesn't gel well with that scene. And I wasn't a fan of the Beast's characterization either. He's very snobbish and constantly looks down on Belle and I'm assuming this was done to make him seem more like a gentleman like in the fairy tale but even that Beast, as scholarly and refined as he was, never looked down on Belle or taunted her for her class or station.
Belle's lack of sleeves wouldn't be an issue like you said had it not been for the absence of gloves. The bare arms seem really odd especially because this dress is already simple enough as it is so the whole concept is just so plain. It doesn't help that her jewelry is so minimal that it's barely noticeable.
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Silverman tells the story now because she realizes it was actually really awful.
