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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:01 am 
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Oh, yes ringlets are hair curls, or small rings or circles, so that isn't the right term for Belle's hair thing.

I hate that Belle European musical dress. I hate it. I know it's meant to be between accuracy and whimsy but I think it looks bad. I know hate is a strong word but I hate it because every other costume in that musical is so great.

I love Belle's winter look in the 2017 movie. I get that Belle was purposely not trying to look like a princess in everything she wore at the palace. There's only one gown that needed to look princessy and that was the ballgown.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:21 am 
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See I love dresses like that which is why I also liked that fanedit I posted in the previous page. The super gaudy and fancy dresses with all the frillings and stuff. To this day I haven't seen the BATB musical so I really hope to remedy that one day especially since I've seen Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Lion King, Anastasia, and Hunchback (although Hunchback is the only one I haven't seen in person). Would love to add BATB and Aida to that list.

It's one thing not to look like a princess but Belle could have still looked like a stately lady considering she is a guest at the Beast's castle and I didn't get that impression at all from her costumes. It reminds me of that unnecessary statement from the film about Belle not being a princess.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:36 am 
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I LOVE detail on costumes. So I love dresses with lots of elements to them. Super fancy, yeah. I just don't like the choice of elements in Europe's Beauty and the Beast musical Belle ballgown. I prefer the American version, which also had great costumes all around and won Best Costumes at the Tony's. I hope we both see the musical in person! I saw the whole thing on Youtube with the original Annie as Belle.

Well, I didn't like that Belle didn't want to be a princess when I see that as going completely against her original character right down to her originally wanting a "prince charming" that she even sings about, but I get that in the 2017 one she didn't want to be a princess so she didn't wear clothes like that. I dunno, she didn't dress like a ho, she dressed nicely for a farm girl which is what she was. That's why I feel she only needed to look like a princess when wearing a ballgown.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:09 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I thought Emma Thompson was alright in the role, but not really a great singer. But I've always been a huge fan of Angela Lansbury, so it was going to be hard to see a new version of the character whoever they had picked. I do wish Audra McDonald had performed "Beauty and the Beast." Perhaps they could've had Emma Thompson bookend the song by doing the start, then Audra takes over when they enter the ballroom, and have Thompson back at the very end for the very final chorus.

Don't AT ALL AGRE !! :x

But that's just me :lol: :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:10 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
do wish Audra McDonald had performed "Beauty and the Beast." Perhaps they could've had Emma Thompson bookend the song by doing the start, then Audra takes over when they enter the ballroom, and have Thompson back at the very end for the very final chorus.

Don't AT ALL AGRE !! :x

But that's just me :lol: :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:10 am 
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DisneyFan97 wrote:
Disney's Divinity wrote:
I thought Emma Thompson was alright in the role, but not really a great singer. But I've always been a huge fan of Angela Lansbury, so it was going to be hard to see a new version of the character whoever they had picked. I do wish Audra McDonald had performed "Beauty and the Beast." Perhaps they could've had Emma Thompson bookend the song by doing the start, then Audra takes over when they enter the ballroom, and have Thompson back at the very end for the very final chorus.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:59 pm 
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DisneyFan97 wrote:
Don't AT ALL AGRE !! :x

But that's just me :lol: :)
:lol: That's okay. I'll have to look up and listen to Meta Velander some time, if she sounds a great deal like Lansbury as you say.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:37 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:

Well, I didn't like that Belle didn't want to be a princess when I see that as going completely against her original character right down to her originally wanting a "prince charming" that she even sings about, but I get that in the 2017 one she didn't want to be a princess so she didn't wear clothes like that. I dunno, she didn't dress like a ho, she dressed nicely for a farm girl which is what she was. That's why I feel she only needed to look like a princess when wearing a ballgown.


But in the animated film Belle's vestuary was very important. It represents her mood, her evolution as a character. She wears more elaborate clothes when she lives in the palace because She wears what She has there, She doesn't have her own clothes there so She actually can't choose what She's going to wear. The "winter dress" from the live action doesn't look like a dress that you could find in a palace and even the maids wear best gowns than the Winter one so She could have not take it from one of the maids. It's also very similar to the clothes that She wears in the village and it's not beliavle to me that she finds this kind of clothes.

About the European gown It looks amazing to me. It's what she should have worn. The one that was made for the USA it's amazing too. It was also used in Spain the first time that the Show was made but I have to say that this gown is not accurate to this epoque. To make this gown they get inspired in the gown worn by Sisi's (Elizabeth Von Wittlesbach) in the famous portrait of her. They used other references too but this references were from the XIX century and not from the century that the movie is inspired. In the Broadway show it doesn't seems a problema because I don't see any interest to make everything accurate to the century when the story is based but in the movie everything seems very accurate so something like this gown would not fix in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:33 am 
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I believe that in the live-action film through magic the castle gave Belle dresses that fit what she wanted. In the scene where she gets the yellow ball gown magic makes the decorations on it.

No one in the 18th century would have worn the gown from that European musical. None of the clothes in that musical are exactly historically accurate, they are like a mix of 18th century and fantasy. The ball gown you provided a picture of actually is a different gown for Belle than her ball gown, it is the gown she wears at the end after the curse is broken. Also, in the animated Beauty and the Beast, I don't think very many of the costumes or architecture were accurate to the 18th century either. Yes, the setting was intended to be the 18th century, but the clothes and architecture only reflect it to a small degree. Belle's yellow ballgown in the animated film is actually more inspired by the XIX century, which is why the costume designer for the US musical used XIX century inspiration.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:33 am 
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Thumper_93 wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:

Well, I didn't like that Belle didn't want to be a princess when I see that as going completely against her original character right down to her originally wanting a "prince charming" that she even sings about, but I get that in the 2017 one she didn't want to be a princess so she didn't wear clothes like that. I dunno, she didn't dress like a ho, she dressed nicely for a farm girl which is what she was. That's why I feel she only needed to look like a princess when wearing a ballgown.


But in the animated film Belle's vestuary was very important. It represents her mood, her evolution as a character. She wears more elaborate clothes when she lives in the palace because She wears what She has there, She doesn't have her own clothes there so She actually can't choose what She's going to wear. The "winter dress" from the live action doesn't look like a dress that you could find in a palace and even the maids wear best gowns than the Winter one so She could have not take it from one of the maids. It's also very similar to the clothes that She wears in the village and it's not beliavle to me that she finds this kind of clothes.

About the European gown It looks amazing to me. It's what she should have worn. The one that was made for the USA it's amazing too. It was also used in Spain the first time that the Show was made but I have to say that this gown is not accurate to this epoque. To make this gown they get inspired in the gown worn by Sisi's (Elizabeth Von Wittlesbach) in the famous portrait of her. They used other references too but this references were from the XIX century and not from the century that the movie is inspired. In the Broadway show it doesn't seems a problema because I don't see any interest to make everything accurate to the century when the story is based but in the movie everything seems very accurate so something like this gown would not fix in my opinion.

https://i.ibb.co/tPRCypz/Imagen-JPEG.jpg

That gown is gorgeous! And I agree that I wouldn't mind if it's historically inaccurate if it looked as good as that. The problem with Belle's live-action dress was that neither was it historically accurate nor was it at all a pleasure to look at. Cinderella's live-action gown may not have been historically accurate but it was still a wonder so all was forgiven. And I agree with you about the caliber of dresses Belle would wear. She shouldn't look like a peasant since she's a guest of the castle and they wouldn't have clothes like that there. You won't see the green and pink dress from the animated film as something the villagers would ever wear and they look nothing like her blue dress and rightfully so.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:35 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I believe that in the live-action film through magic the castle gave Belle dresses that fit what she wanted. In the scene where she gets the yellow ball gown magic makes the decorations on it.

No one in the 18th century would have worn the gown from that European musical. None of the clothes in that musical are exactly historically accurate, they are like a mix of 18th century and fantasy. The ball gown you provided a picture of actually is a different gown for Belle than her ball gown, it is the gown she wears at the end after the curse is broken. Also, in the animated Beauty and the Beast, I don't think very many of the costumes or architecture were accurate to the 18th century either. Yes, the setting was intended to be the 18th century, but the clothes and architecture only reflect it to a small degree. Belle's yellow ballgown in the animated film is actually more inspired by the XIX century, which is why the costume designer for the US musical used XIX century inspiration.


An actual gown from the 18th Century:

Image

I know that you "hate" this dress but It's accurated and it could be worn perfectly by a 18th century woman. Obviously it has some details that are invented but it's much more accurate than the american version (the ball scene and the finale scene). Both gowns in american versions is a mix of styles that don't fix in any epoque.


I have some things to say about the animated one. Like in other Disney's movies the gowns that the main character wears have somo insipiratrions in the fashion that was worn in the time that the movie was made. Snow white for example wears shoes with the form and design from the 30's. Her kind of skirt was also famous in that decade. In Belle's golden ballgown we can find some elements that were popular in the 80's like the bodice of the gown and so elements that remind to other famous gowns like Audrey Hepburn's gown worn in Roman Holiday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DltU8apWsAAtsS_.jpg
Belle's animated gown is a mix of different styles. It's a fantasy dress. The pink one is more accurate in my opinion than any other dress that She wears.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:34 pm 
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This video explain how the gown should be to be accurate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbLEaTjYQtk

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:52 pm 
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Thank you for your information and video link Thumper_93!

I adore that dress you posted. It looks a lot like some concept art of the animated Belle and while I normally prefer Belle in gold over yellow, that shade of yellow looks great mixed with the cream/ivory color. Much better than the shade of yellow used in the live-action film.

All the princesses were definitely inspired by the era they came out in. Snow White, besides the dress and shoes you mentioned, had hair drawn straight from the 1930s and even the sleeves were reminiscent of that time I believe. Aurora's dress shape and her off-the-shoulders neckline came straight from the 50s as well. Cinderella's wedding gown is basically exactly what a 50s wedding gown would look like. Ariel is the epitome of the 80s with her hair and big sleeves. Her sparkling seafoam dress is clearly from a contemporary age and her wedding gown screams 80s. I've heard so many women talk about how they had wedding dresses just like that. Jasmine's harem pants (like MC Hammer), crop top, and jewelry are as heavily inspired from 90s fashion as they are from I Dream of Jeannie.

Like you said, when it came to Belle's dresses, the pink one always looked like the one straight from the 1700s. I'm not sure what the green dress was inspired by though.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:45 am 
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I think that the green one is a generic gown. I believe that they didn't take inspiration from any epoque. I agree with you about the relation between the fashion in the disney films and the decade when they were made. Cinderella's bride gown is an example of it. Ariel's wedding gown for example is very from the 80's (like Lady Diana's wedding gown for example). My mother's bride gown was like Ariel's in the sleeves and in the bodice. They do this to make the characters more attractive to the audience

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Thumper_93 wrote:
I think that the green one is a generic gown. I believe that they didn't take inspiration from any epoque. I agree with you about the relation between the fashion in the disney films and the decade when they were made. Cinderella's bride gown is an example of it. Ariel's wedding gown for example is very from the 80's (like Lady Diana's wedding gown for example). My mother's bride gown was like Ariel's in the sleeves and in the bodice. They do this to make the characters more attractive to the audience

That's what I was thinking about the green dress as well. Even Snow White's wedding dress from the deleted scenes and concept art I've heard was very reminiscent of a wedding dress from the 1930s, certainly moreso than a 16th century wedding gown.

That's so neat that your mother's dress was like Ariel's. And I imagine that the mothers of the women in that generation very likely had wedding gowns like Cinderella's from the 50s.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:02 am 
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You guys just ignored when I said the castle magically gives Belle the clothes she wants?

Thumper_93 wrote:
An actual gown from the 18th Century:

Image

I know that you "hate" this dress but It's accurated and it could be worn perfectly by a 18th century woman. Obviously it has some details that are invented but it's much more accurate than the american version (the ball scene and the finale scene). Both gowns in american versions is a mix of styles that don't fix in any epoque.th gowns in american versions is a mix of styles that don't fix in any epoque.

I do not hate that dress you posted a picture of at all, though to be honest I am not a fan of that particular dress but it is not the general style I hate just that specific dress. I was saying the one in the European musical I hate, because, no, that dress is not completely accurate. It has these ugly giant petals hanging over it and I hate them. Only the sleeves and bodice are accurate. I am pretty sure the American gowns both follow a 19th century epoch.

Thumper_93 wrote:
I have some things to say about the animated one. Like in other Disney's movies the gowns that the main character wears have somo insipiratrions in the fashion that was worn in the time that the movie was made. Snow white for example wears shoes with the form and design from the 30's. Her kind of skirt was also famous in that decade. In Belle's golden ballgown we can find some elements that were popular in the 80's like the bodice of the gown and so elements that remind to other famous gowns like Audrey Hepburn's gown worn in Roman Holiday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DltU8apWsAAtsS_.jpg
Belle's animated gown is a mix of different styles. It's a fantasy dress. The pink one is more accurate in my opinion than any other dress that She wears.

I had read that Belle's gown was inspired by the Roman Holiday one, and I guess it turns out it was true. Belle's gold dress is a fantasy dress, yes, but it looks a lot like a 19th century dress as well. I agree the pink dress is the one accurate to the 1700's.

Thumper_93 wrote:
This video explain how the gown should be to be accurate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbLEaTjYQtk

I saw that video already. In that video the fashion expert even says Belle's gold yellow gown looks like a 19th century dress.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:49 am 
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I don't know where you got this idea that the castle is magically enchanted to give Belle dresses. That's certainly not the case in the animated film and even in the live-action film, the Wardrobe offers whatever dresses she has inside of her. There's no talk about conjuring up a dress. The ridiculous scene where the gold flakes became a part of the dress was just an attempt to replicate the Cinderella transformation sequence and it failed...miserably. No one remembered or cared about it. I'm assuming that scene is why you think the castle could create dresses for Belle though. If something else made you think that way, I'd love to know what. And in the animated film, Belle had no issue wearing more "festive" dresses like her golden ballgown or the utterly opulent fur-trimmed winter cloak.

I've also read the Marvel comics for the animated film that came out in the 90s and the Wardrobe provides a pink ballgown for Belle and there was nothing about her sticking her nose up at being dressed like a lady or a princess, let alone the castle magically providing clothes.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:26 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I don't know where you got this idea that the castle is magically enchanted to give Belle dresses. That's certainly not the case in the animated film and even in the live-action film, the Wardrobe offers whatever dresses she has inside of her. There's no talk about conjuring up a dress. The ridiculous scene where the gold flakes became a part of the dress was just an attempt to replicate the Cinderella transformation sequence and it failed...miserably. No one remembered or cared about it. I'm assuming that scene is why you think the castle could create dresses for Belle though. If something else made you think that way, I'd love to know what. And in the animated film, Belle had no issue wearing more "festive" dresses like her golden ballgown or the utterly opulent fur-trimmed winter cloak.

I've also read the Marvel comics for the animated film that came out in the 90s and the Wardrobe provides a pink ballgown for Belle and there was nothing about her sticking her nose up at being dressed like a lady or a princess, let alone the castle magically providing clothes.


I'm agree with you. The wardrobe can't create any dress. The "transformation scene" only adds embroidery to the ball gown but that's all (that's what I remember). I'm pretty sure that Emma Watson complained about all the things relationated with the vestuary. I red some interviews when the movie came out and I couldn't believe what I was reading. I think that they should have not listened at her.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:48 am 
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Thumper_93 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I don't know where you got this idea that the castle is magically enchanted to give Belle dresses. That's certainly not the case in the animated film and even in the live-action film, the Wardrobe offers whatever dresses she has inside of her. There's no talk about conjuring up a dress. The ridiculous scene where the gold flakes became a part of the dress was just an attempt to replicate the Cinderella transformation sequence and it failed...miserably. No one remembered or cared about it. I'm assuming that scene is why you think the castle could create dresses for Belle though. If something else made you think that way, I'd love to know what. And in the animated film, Belle had no issue wearing more "festive" dresses like her golden ballgown or the utterly opulent fur-trimmed winter cloak.

I've also read the Marvel comics for the animated film that came out in the 90s and the Wardrobe provides a pink ballgown for Belle and there was nothing about her sticking her nose up at being dressed like a lady or a princess, let alone the castle magically providing clothes.


I'm agree with you. The wardrobe can't create any dress. The "transformation scene" only adds embroidery to the ball gown but that's all (that's what I remember). I'm pretty sure that Emma Watson complained about all the things relationated with the vestuary. I red some interviews when the movie came out and I couldn't believe what I was reading. I think that they should have not listened at her.

She did complain about the corset and how one of her conditions for doing this film is that she wouldn't wear one. I wonder if she wore one in Little Women. All the concept art for her ballgown had sleeves and was a lot more frilly with more layers and we all know that Emma Watson was instrumental in creating the dress design so the safe assumption is that she got rid of all those more historically accurate elements. I think she was a bit defensive about the boots she wore as part of her village dress ensemble as well although that may have been one of the costume designers.

I've heard from sources online that Disney is very embarrassed about the dress and how they basically gave Emma Watson completely freedom to overhaul it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:54 am 
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Quote:
I've heard from sources online that Disney is very embarrassed about the dress and how they basically gave Emma Watson completely freedom to overhaul it.


It's normal...The dress looks like a cheap prom dress. In "The art of Disney costuming" book you can see some details of the dress and It's a shame. I also have a magazine that was released with the film and the Shoes have more details than de dress.
Image

It says that the dress has 2160 crystals, 12.238 hours of filming, 55 meters of organza fabric and that 1000 meters of thread was used. The bodice is designed with a shape that remembers an eagle feathers and it reprensets Belle's free spirit. The shoes also wears feathers and tbe necklace represents "the tree of life".

In my opinion an eagle doesn't have anything to see with Belle. But if they believe so it's ok.

I think that they should not have chosen Emma for the role. She doesn't have Belle's spirit. In the movie She doesn't look comfortable in the role and She doesn't have chemistry with Dan. She was the worst choice in the film.

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