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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:51 am 
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I read in The Art of Disney Costuming that when they made Belle's yellow ball dress for this film, Disney and the filmakers spefically did not want it to be like the Cinderella live-action blue ball dress. So that's part of why the yellow dress looks the way it does. I think they should have gone with something more like the Cinderella LA ball dress because almost everyone I have ever heard was disappointed with Belle's dress but thought Cinderella's was great. I have only heard two people were disappointed with Cinderella's.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:07 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I read in The Art of Disney Costuming that when they made Belle's yellow ball dress for this film, Disney and the filmakers spefically did not want it to be like the Cinderella live-action blue ball dress. So that's part of why the yellow dress looks the way it does. I think they should have gone with something more like the Cinderella LA ball dress because almost everyone I have ever heard was disappointed with Belle's dress but thought Cinderella's was great. I have only heard two people were disappointed with Cinderella's.

I'm pretty sure I know one of the two people you are referring to who was disappointed with Cinderella's dress because said person has never stopped ranting about it and every other way the live-action Cinderella personally offended him and ruined his life :lol:

Hmmm, I wonder if that is really the truth or just the cover-up story because they don't want it in print that they let Emma Watson completely decide how the dress would look and they were beholden to her star power. They also must know how unpopular the dress is so they don't want to make it seem like they are blaming her so it's easy to use the Cinderella dress as an excuse as to why Belle's dress couldn't look as good. I think that's a lame excuse anyway because the animated dresses are as different as they can be but both Belle's and Cinderella's ballgowns are frequently considered the best. One didn't have to look bad to not upstage the other.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:42 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
I read in The Art of Disney Costuming that when they made Belle's yellow ball dress for this film, Disney and the filmakers spefically did not want it to be like the Cinderella live-action blue ball dress. So that's part of why the yellow dress looks the way it does. I think they should have gone with something more like the Cinderella LA ball dress because almost everyone I have ever heard was disappointed with Belle's dress but thought Cinderella's was great. I have only heard two people were disappointed with Cinderella's.

I'm pretty sure I know one of the two people you are referring to who was disappointed with Cinderella's dress because said person has never stopped ranting about it and every other way the live-action Cinderella personally offended him and ruined his life :lol:

Hmmm, I wonder if that is really the truth or just the cover-up story because they don't want it in print that they let Emma Watson completely decide how the dress would look and they were beholden to her star power. They also must know how unpopular the dress is so they don't want to make it seem like they are blaming her so it's easy to use the Cinderella dress as an excuse as to why Belle's dress couldn't look as good. I think that's a lame excuse anyway because the animated dresses are as different as they can be but both Belle's and Cinderella's ballgowns are frequently considered the best. One didn't have to look bad to not upstage the other.

Belle's dress was weird because the sleeves were too short and I don't know what's the deal with those napkins, are they more "historically accurate" than the Hungarian curtains? I saw some examples of Belle's dress done elegantly:
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I don't get why they didn't go with the original design. It could have looked amazing.
And TBH I don't get why in both Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast they were so against using gloves.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:14 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'm pretty sure I know one of the two people you are referring to who was disappointed with Cinderella's dress because said person has never stopped ranting about it and every other way the live-action Cinderella personally offended him and ruined his life :lol:

Hmmm, I wonder if that is really the truth or just the cover-up story because they don't want it in print that they let Emma Watson completely decide how the dress would look and they were beholden to her star power. They also must know how unpopular the dress is so they don't want to make it seem like they are blaming her so it's easy to use the Cinderella dress as an excuse as to why Belle's dress couldn't look as good. I think that's a lame excuse anyway because the animated dresses are as different as they can be but both Belle's and Cinderella's ballgowns are frequently considered the best. One didn't have to look bad to not upstage the other.

Lol, yes, it was him, but also UmbrellaFish does not like Cinderella's live-action blue ball gown either, which puzzles me, but hey, it's his opinion. I mean, maybe I kind of get it because at first I, too, was disappointed in the dress when I first saw it, but it grew on me, and when I learned it was meant to be simple but also the most beautiful ball gown in the film, I really began to love it, and now I consider it the best Cinderella ball gown in a live-action film.

I think they actually reall did intend to make the dress different from Cinderella's, because they wanted to set it apart. It just turns out that their decision, while not bad, got executed terribly.

Farerb, as someone who knows a really good amount about 18th-century dresses, I can tell you that both Belle's original animated gold dress and Belle's live-action yellow dress are equally as historically accurate. For one thing the animated one has a look that is similar to this historcially accurate 18th-century dress:
Image

And the live-action one has an overskirt idea and bodice that imitate the 18th-century as well. But those similarities to the 18th-century are where the dresses' historical accuracy end.

It just turns out the animated Belle's dress was the immensely prettier one. Plus, her animated date-night with the Beast hair-style did imitate 18th-century women's hair-styles to a degree.

As for the gloves...I feel like those would not have suited either Cinderella's or Belle's live-action looks. I feel Belle's lack of gloves was the one thing they got right, even though 18th-century gloves did exist. They just weren't that common.

Oh, but thank you for posting those pictures! The first dress is perfect!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:18 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'm pretty sure I know one of the two people you are referring to who was disappointed with Cinderella's dress because said person has never stopped ranting about it and every other way the live-action Cinderella personally offended him and ruined his life :lol:

Hmmm, I wonder if that is really the truth or just the cover-up story because they don't want it in print that they let Emma Watson completely decide how the dress would look and they were beholden to her star power. They also must know how unpopular the dress is so they don't want to make it seem like they are blaming her so it's easy to use the Cinderella dress as an excuse as to why Belle's dress couldn't look as good. I think that's a lame excuse anyway because the animated dresses are as different as they can be but both Belle's and Cinderella's ballgowns are frequently considered the best. One didn't have to look bad to not upstage the other.

Lol, yes, it was him, but also UmbrellaFish does not like Cinderella's live-action blue ball gown either, which puzzles me, but hey, it's his opinion. I mean, maybe I kind of get it because at first I, too, was disappointed in the dress when I first saw it, but it grew on me, and when I learned it was meant to be simple but also the most beautiful ball gown in the film, I really began to love it, and now I consider it the best Cinderella ball gown in a live-action film.

I think they actually reall did intend to make the dress different from Cinderella's, because they wanted to set it apart. It just turns out that their decision, while not bad, got executed terribly.

Farerb, as someone who knows a really good amount about 18th-century dresses, I can tell you that both Belle's original animated gold dress and Belle's live-action yellow dress are equally as historically accurate. For one thing the animated one has a look that is similar to this historcially accurate 18th-century dress:
Image

And the live-action one has an overskirt idea and bodice that imitate the 18th-century as well. But those similarities to the 18th-century are where the dresses' historical accuracy end.

It just turns out the animated Belle's dress was the immensely prettier one. Plus, her animated date-night with the Beast hair-style did imitate 18th-century women's hair-styles to a degree.

As for the gloves...I feel like those would not have suited either Cinderella's or Belle's live-action looks. I feel Belle's lack of gloves was the one thing they got right, even though 18th-century gloves did exist. They just weren't that common.

Oh, but thank you for posting those pictures! The first dress is perfect!

Thank you for the information.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:47 am 
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Absolutely, pal! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:26 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'm pretty sure I know one of the two people you are referring to who was disappointed with Cinderella's dress because said person has never stopped ranting about it and every other way the live-action Cinderella personally offended him and ruined his life :lol:

Hmmm, I wonder if that is really the truth or just the cover-up story because they don't want it in print that they let Emma Watson completely decide how the dress would look and they were beholden to her star power. They also must know how unpopular the dress is so they don't want to make it seem like they are blaming her so it's easy to use the Cinderella dress as an excuse as to why Belle's dress couldn't look as good. I think that's a lame excuse anyway because the animated dresses are as different as they can be but both Belle's and Cinderella's ballgowns are frequently considered the best. One didn't have to look bad to not upstage the other.

Lol, yes, it was him, but also UmbrellaFish does not like Cinderella's live-action blue ball gown either, which puzzles me, but hey, it's his opinion. I mean, maybe I kind of get it because at first I, too, was disappointed in the dress when I first saw it, but it grew on me, and when I learned it was meant to be simple but also the most beautiful ball gown in the film, I really began to love it, and now I consider it the best Cinderella ball gown in a live-action film.

I think they actually reall did intend to make the dress different from Cinderella's, because they wanted to set it apart. It just turns out that their decision, while not bad, got executed terribly.

Farerb, as someone who knows a really good amount about 18th-century dresses, I can tell you that both Belle's original animated gold dress and Belle's live-action yellow dress are equally as historically accurate. For one thing the animated one has a look that is similar to this historcially accurate 18th-century dress:
Image

And the live-action one has an overskirt idea and bodice that imitate the 18th-century as well. But those similarities to the 18th-century are where the dresses' historical accuracy end.

It just turns out the animated Belle's dress was the immensely prettier one. Plus, her animated date-night with the Beast hair-style did imitate 18th-century women's hair-styles to a degree.

As for the gloves...I feel like those would not have suited either Cinderella's or Belle's live-action looks. I feel Belle's lack of gloves was the one thing they got right, even though 18th-century gloves did exist. They just weren't that common.

Oh, but thank you for posting those pictures! The first dress is perfect!

I suppose it's a bit simple but I think the beauty lies in its simplicty, especially with how Ella was portrayed in the film. My high school calculus teacher claimed it was the most beautiful dress she's ever seen...until the wedding scene where her wedding gown was even more beautiful to her and readily replaced the ball gown for the title of most beautiful dress ever. At least it was another one of Cinderella's dresses that changed her mind lol.

Well the dress looked different enough in the concept art when it had sleeves and such. To be honest, the final product looks more similar to Cinderella's dress, just flimsier like a cheap knockoff.

Is Belle's venetian curtain dress really that historically accurate? I remember people said it was more like a 19th century ballgown (from Cinderella's time). I know that the opera gloves weren't very accurate since they used to wear shorter gloves.

I agree, I'm glad they didn't give either princess gloves in the live-action remakes. Belle needed sleeves imo and Cinderella's bare arms were fine.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:01 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I suppose it's a bit simple but I think the beauty lies in its simplicty, especially with how Ella was portrayed in the film. My high school calculus teacher claimed it was the most beautiful dress she's ever seen...until the wedding scene where her wedding gown was even more beautiful to her and readily replaced the ball gown for the title of most beautiful dress ever. At least it was another one of Cinderella's dresses that changed her mind lol.

Well the dress looked different enough in the concept art when it had sleeves and such. To be honest, the final product looks more similar to Cinderella's dress, just flimsier like a cheap knockoff.

Is Belle's venetian curtain dress really that historically accurate? I remember people said it was more like a 19th century ballgown (from Cinderella's time). I know that the opera gloves weren't very accurate since they used to wear shorter gloves.

I agree, I'm glad they didn't give either princess gloves in the live-action remakes. Belle needed sleeves imo and Cinderella's bare arms were fine.

Indeed, Ella's dress is kind of clever it it's simplicity, in that you need every part of it to work, and it just takes each bit. It's also clever in that every small part comes together to make a big effect. And yes, the beauty is in the simplicity. It's clear. I'm so glad your calculus teacher said that! Ella's wedding dress I loved right away, and that dress actually is also liked by the two people I mentioned as well, so, I guess that says something, too, even though I consider the blue dress truly the best one. But even my friend's boyfriend said, "That's one beautiful wedding dress!" Yes, at least it's a Cinderella dress everyone likes so I can be a happy fan.

This is the part where I would probably say something harsh to someone who I felt "could take it", which I talk about in the email I just sent you, but I'm gonna be really polite - I disagree that Belle's final yellow dress looks much like Ella's blue ball gown. I just think...nope, lol. That's just my opinion. If you want, you could try to explain. But I know sometimes certain stuff is hard to describe.

The Austrian curtains design (if you look it up, you see "Austrian" curtains is the way Belle's animated dress looks) I have never, in my life, seen on an 18th-century or 19th-century dress. Ever. I was just saying with that picture I provided, it kind of looks like one 18th-century style I saw. The closest I ever saw a 19th-century dress get to it was this:
Image

I'm glad we agree about the gloves.

Also, farerb, I just want to be clear, the three-tiered "napkin" overskirts on Belle's live-action yellow dress are totally not historically accurate. But the idea of any kind of overskirt at all is.

I hope I have not sounded bitchy at all as I mean all of this with good feeling! :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:55 pm 
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It's nice to know that at least her wedding dress is universally loved. Sadly, I never felt the dolls lived up to how her wedding dress looked in the film.

Well, my statement about Belle's yellow dress looking similar to Cinderella's dress is based on the fact that a more historically accurate Belle dress (like the animated film or the concept art we saw) looked radically different from Cinderella's dress.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-nqUDKjoUX/
What they ended up going with was much more similar than what they originally planned since both are poofy ballgowns with no sleeves. Belle's dress barely has any embelishments, it lacks sleeves, gloves, jewelry, etc. so it comes across like trying to replicate the Cinderella experience.

This is a fanedit by axelmalibu of Belle's live-action dress and absolutely stunning. It looks historically accurate and so different from Cinderella's live-action dress as well.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-lNpSpjmpX/

Thank you for the information about Belle's dress being historically accurate. And yes, I meant to say Austrian curtains not Venetian curtains lol.

BTW has anyone seen this fanedit? Simply stunning.
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:06 am 
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Yes, none of the dolls really did the wedding dress justice. In fact, I think even Cinderella's blue dress only really looked good on the Mattel doll.

Wow, I would have loved the Chris Notarile dress, especially how it looked in the fourth square!

I see what you mean about no gloves or sleeves on both Cinderella's and Belle's dresses, but Belle had jewelery in earrings, a gold ring in her hair, and a necklace. Also, I count those two overskirts, as well as the designs on them, to be embellishments. Meanwhile, only Cinderella's neckline has embellishments.

I like the first fanedit you showed, but not a lot. I would rather something more like I designed. I really do not like that second fanedit of the white dress as yellow. I'm sorry.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:03 am 
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Live-action Cinderella's face was off in a lot of the dolls like the Disney Store ones although not as bad as the Belle doll at the Disney Store. The one that went viral I mean.

Belle's jewelry is barely noticeable and until you mentioned the necklace, I completely forgot she even had one and I only "remembered" the earrings because the animated version had it. I'm not sure if the gold ring in her hair counts because I was never sure if it was a ribbon or something. I know some people think Cinderella's headband is also a ribbon. I don't count the overskirts because they just looked like plain trash bags hanging over her dress lol. There's a reason Belle's dress is completely trashed on social media to this day.

You don't have to apologize for not liking the designs.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:07 am 
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I never thought Cinderella live-action's face was off in any of the dolls. The only thing I ever thought was wrong with her face on the dolls was that the Mattel one made her look a little grumpy.

Belle's ringlet in her hair in the animated film comes to a point in the back. No ribbon does that. Cinderella's headband is probably a band of the same material as her dress, at least I always thought so, and that's what the parks do. I do not consider it a ribbon, though.

Thanks for what you said about the apologizing thing.

LOL what you said about Belle's live-action dress and doll. rotfl

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:17 am 
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Emma Thopmson was GREAT as Mrs. Potts !, But NO´ONE can do it better than Angela Lansbury and Meta Velander who were both amazing in the original !!

For those who don't Meta Velander is the Swedish voice of Mrs. Potts she sounds almost exactly like Angela Lansbury !

At least very greatfull the remake cast a REALLY GOOD singer as Mrs.Potts, Emma Thopson has played Mrs Lovett Live from the Lincon Center.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:49 pm 
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I thought Emma Thompson was alright in the role, but not really a great singer. But I've always been a huge fan of Angela Lansbury, so it was going to be hard to see a new version of the character whoever they had picked. I do wish Audra McDonald had performed "Beauty and the Beast." Perhaps they could've had Emma Thompson bookend the song by doing the start, then Audra takes over when they enter the ballroom, and have Thompson back at the very end for the very final chorus.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I never thought Cinderella live-action's face was off in any of the dolls. The only thing I ever thought was wrong with her face on the dolls was that the Mattel one made her look a little grumpy.

Belle's ringlet in her hair in the animated film comes to a point in the back. No ribbon does that. Cinderella's headband is probably a band of the same material as her dress, at least I always thought so, and that's what the parks do. I do not consider it a ribbon, though.

Thanks for what you said about the apologizing thing.

LOL what you said about Belle's live-action dress and doll. rotfl

I never liked her Disney Store face. I think it was the shape of the head and how oddly her chain was sculpted. It reminded me of a girl from my school lol so that might be why Ella's face didn't work for me lol. I thought the Mattel one was an improvement although I can see why you think she might look grumpy.

In the animated film it was definitely pointed but I have no idea what it's supposed to be in the live-action film. Good point about Cinderella's headband in the parks. A lot of dolls give her ribbon in her hair like Snow White's ribbon.

Lol, well it's true. If you look at those Instagram links I've posted, almost every comment is about trashing the live-action Belle, both the dress and the character. And if I watch almost any scene or song from a live-action Disney film like Aladdin or Cinderella on YouTube, the comments will inevitably compare to BATB and trash the film and Belle's dress. And I still remember when the live-action Belle doll was in the Disney Store, the actual Disney Store employees flat out admitted that no one was buying the doll but everyone was coming in to take pictures of it and trash it online. That doll probably would have made more money if they charged people to take a picture of it than charging them to purchase it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:02 am 
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Oh, hm. Well it's ok you don't like the Disney Store Ellla face mold.

In the both the BatB animated and live-action films, I would call Belle's...hair thing maybe a ringlet or a circlet but I really don't know the right terminology for that, either. Gold scrunchie? lol

Omg, the best comments were that person who said their version of the live-action film was Gaston and Beast got together! And one other Instagram post I clicked on said Belle's dress had cheese slices! rotfl I can't believe people bash the film, dress, and Belle every chance they get, but at least I share their annoyance.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
That doll probably would have made more money if they charged people to take a picture of it than charging them to purchase it.

rotfl

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:38 am 
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I thought it was a ringlet as well in the animated film. I think a circlet is more like a band around your forehead like Merida's crown during the suitor scene.

Lol that is a funny comment although I think Luke Evans is too good for Dan Stevens. I don't quite get the cheese slices comment unless it's a reference to those skirt folds.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:01 am 
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I think you are right about ringlets vs. circlets.

I think Dan Stevens has been said to be good in other stuff so I like him. The slices of cheese insult must be about the flat square looking overskirts.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:07 am 
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I always thought that Belle's LA dress should have been similar to the European Musical one:

Image

In this movie the vestuary is very accurate to the century where it's based and Belle's dress doesn't looks from this century. All the vestuary that Emma wears in the castle seems wrong to me. The winter gown wouldn't be wear by someone from the royalty that lives in a castle, they could have made a Sherpherdess looks like the one that Marie Antoinette used to wear

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:28 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I think you are right about ringlets vs. circlets.

I think Dan Stevens has been said to be good in other stuff so I like him. The slices of cheese insult must be about the flat square looking overskirts.

Also aren't ringlets also how corkscrew curls are referred to? Like Belle's hair in the parks?

I've seen him in some other films and shows and he's just okay, not terrible but nothing remarkable either. Much like his performance in BATB. Yes, the cheese slices must be those skirt flaps.

Thumper_93 wrote:
I always thought that Belle's LA dress should have been similar to the European Musical one:

Image

In this movie the vestuary is very accurate to the century where it's based and Belle's dress doesn't looks from this century. All the vestuary that Emma wears in the castle seems wrong to me. The winter gown wouldn't be wear by someone from the royalty that lives in a castle, they could have made a Sherpherdess looks like the one that Marie Antoinette used to wear

Yes, I love that gown!

And I agree that in the live-action film, the costumes mostly seem historically accurate except for almost all of Belle's. Not just her ballgown (if you can even call it that) but especially her winter dress. That one disappointed me very much since it's one of my favorite looks in the animated film and this was just such a cheap attempt to try and pull it off. All of the grandeur of the hood and fur cloak were lost.

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