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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:12 pm 
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Bartok's my favorite character from Anastasia. :lol: Too bad the Wrecked Princess franchise seems to be very slow-going... I keep hoping one day Tiana will get a Menken-written song that way--a song that's closer to ANR's level of talent.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:18 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Too bad the Wrecked Princess franchise seems to be very slow-going... I keep hoping one day Tiana will get a Menken-written song that way--a song that's closer to ANR's level of talent.

I hope so too. Tiana and Anika both deserve a better signature song. The Tiana series is going to be musical and I doubt Randy Newman will be invited to come back, so maybe she will end up getting a more Broadway-esque song there.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:12 pm 
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Redadoodles wrote:
Personally, I find Tiana bland and forgettable. They made her boring because they were afraid of offending people. If you take a look at some deleted scenes, she comes across as being way more interesting and lively.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. While I didn`t consider Tiana as a particularly memorable character, I didn`t found her to be bland and boring. I thought she had some sass and spunk to her, which made her appealing.

Redadoodles wrote:
After changing those details, the creative team hired Oprah as a consultant on the film which is funny because she didn't promote it at all. You think she would when you know how much of a following she has thanks to her talk show.

It`s contradictory to cast someone as huge as Oprah and not having her promote the movie at all. Which was indeed suprising, given her status.

farerb wrote:
As for The Prince of Egypt, while I have a lot of appreciation for the film and I even watched it this week for Passover, I can't deny that the characters feel unmemorable and they lack a certain charisma. Compare Moses to Disney's other heroes like Aladdin, Simba, Quasimodo,etc... Or Tzipporah to Jasmine, Esmeralda or Meg (purposefully talking about deuteragonists). I also think that critics felt that it was inappropriate to depict children being murdered so graphically in this kind of film and that might have affected their judgement.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on that,. I thought that Tzipporah was a great character and frankly one of the highlights of the film. Some people have even called her an Esmeralda knockoff, which is understandable. Since both characters are assertive and strong-willed. But Tzipporah is still great, nonetheless. The same goes to Miriam. And frankly, some people have praised the characters from The Prince of Egypt as well.

Mooky wrote:
The Prince of Egypt Still, it's probably the most ambitious of the three and it shows.

Word. And it shall have kudos for it.

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I agree with Redadoodles that POC characters seem to be intentionally stripped of flaws in an effort to not offend anyone, which effectively also strips them of personality and humor and makes them boring to most people, and Tiana is a good example (I love her, but the constant work mantra can get tedious after a while). See also Pocahontas. Mulan somehow got away with her clumsiness and awkwardness.

I don`t want to sound condescending, but I happen to disagree with that. And especially about Tiana. When she meets Naveen as a frog, she throws stuffed animals at him and smashes him with a book. And when she agrees to kiss him, it`s only to make her dream come true. And she constantly snaps and bitches at him afterwards. Moana does have a similar moment where she smacks Maui with her oar, despite having done nothing to her. As for Pocahontas, while her flaws may not be as huge, she doesn`t thanks her animal friends when they help her (which is especially proven by the scenes where Meeko gives her the compass and her necklace at the end). Mulan may be the least flawed in my opinion, even though her biggest flaw is how the avalance is not particularly foolproof. But to talk about another POC character who`s seriously flawed, it`s Jasmine. Who is occassionally off-putting with her snappy tantrums (even though she has her reasons for being so).

Disney's Divinity wrote:
Since it was brought up, yes, I do prefer The Swan Princess to Anastasia, overall, too,

So do I :) You have a great taste. While I like Anastasia, but I do find the The Swan Princess to be superior: It has better characters, music, humor and is more enchanting as a whole.

Redadoodles wrote:
I remember the Nostalgia Critic panning Pocahontas for its preachy message and saying that kind of story have been done to death (which is not false) but look at what's going on in America right now, it just shows that clearly that message is still needed

Well, Nostalgia Critic haven`t been the only one who`s panned it for that reason.

Sotiris wrote:
The only change I hated was the title. I think it's terrible and it doesn't make any sense. They should have left it The Frog Princess or changed it back to the original fairytale's title The Frog Prince. Calling it Tiana would have been much preferable too.

Agreed. The title was hokey and didn`t make any sense at all. Mostly because it`s irrelevant to what actually happens. Tiana and Naveen never spends time together as a Princess and a frog. When he first meets her as a frog, she`s dressed up as a Princess, but never actually becomes one when they`re both human again. But we all know how the title was perceived as offensive, even to France. And how it made Disney believe that The Princess and the Frog flopped because it had the word "Princess" on it.

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I think the main character spending most of the running time as an animal would have hurt the film regardless of her race. It seems it's something audiences have a distaste for. Come to think of it, no movie where the lead was transformed into an animal was very successful at the box office.

And to add some fuel to the fire, all of those movie featured a non-White protagonist who was transformed.

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Did racists not exist when Aladdin, Pocahontas or Mulan were released?

It certainly did. Remember all the fuzz about Aladdin and Pocahontas for their representations of their cultures? While Mulan received some havoc, it still seemed to be less hampering than it was to those predecessors. Which made it bold that Disney dared to remake Aladdin in live action for that lone reason. While it`s been implied that Pocahontas won`t be getting the live action treatment due to racial scrutiny, Aladdin`s live action update was mandatory for being one of the cornerstones of the Renaissance, despite the racial issue.

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I would too. Even though I quite like TatF, both The Prince of Egypt and Anastasia are superior to it in pretty much every way.

How come?

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Disney also sabotaged The Swan Princess by re-releasing The Lion King. Disney claimed they did so for the kiddies because there were no animated movies in theaters at the time.

Which is one reason for all the claims of how The Lion King became so successful. For being the only animated movie in theaters that summer.

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I would also add Bartok to the film's weaknesses. They didn't know what to do with that character. Was he a villain sidekick? Was he a good guy? It got confusing. His attempts at humor didn't mesh well with the rest of the film either. His entire presence was gratuitous, I'd say.

Agreed. I remember looking forward to Bartok when I saw Anastasia theatrically. For his potential. But he ended up being just meh. He was underwhelming and forgettable and was a missed opportunity to create a great villain sidekick.

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The only "bad marriage" of drama and comedy in The Prince of Egypt was "Playing with the Big Boys". Even by the title you can tell it's silly and ill-fitted. No wonder it got cut from the stage adaptation.

You know what? Many reviewers and people have complained about Playing with the Big Boys being the sole flaw of the film. But for me personally, I don`t think it clashes with the tone of the movie. It may be superfluous, but it`s still a dark and brooding song. There were other comical moments that clashed with the tone of the film, but they were in minority and didn`t hampered the serious tone the film was striving for.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Actually, we found out that film's real production budget was $65-$70 million and not $105 as it's stated on Box Office Mojo. That's why some hypothesize that Disney exaggerated the film's under-performance to justify eliminating 2D at the studio altogether.


Maybe it was 65 million but that does not cover the marketing costs.

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I agree that it should have been addressed a bit more. When I first watched The Princess and the Frog, I found Tiana and Charlotte's relationship odd given the setting and the time period. I got that someone living in her own fairy tale bubble like Charlotte wouldn't be aware of racism or have a problem with befriending a Black girl, but it was weird that no one seemed fazed or bothered by it. It was treated like a very common, mundane thing when it wasn't. I also found strange that Charlotte didn't have any white girlfriends or a social circle of any kind. When you're wealthy and in a position of power people approach you and cling to you even if you aren't actively pursuing such relationships. It would have been interesting to see the interactions between Charlotte's white friends and Tiana, how they treated her and Charlotte's response to that.


I don't even know why Charlotte would dress Tiana as a princess as she wouldn't be allowed to join the party anyway. Maybe Charlotte and her father were not racist but most people attending would have been. I guess it was to cheer her friend up but still it doesn't make much sense. I've always preferred the first dress designed for the party anyway.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:31 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
I don`t want to sound condescending, but I happen to disagree with that. And especially about Tiana. When she meets Naveen as a frog, she throws stuffed animals at him and smashes him with a book. And when she agrees to kiss him, it`s only to make her dream come true. And she constantly snaps and bitches at him afterwards.
:clap: I've heard this argument that Tiana was supposedly stripped of flaws since 2009. I've never agreed with it.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
So do I :) You have a great taste. While I like Anastasia, but I do find the The Swan Princess to be superior: It has better characters, music, humor and is more enchanting as a whole.
It's nice not be alone. I love many of the characters, but particularly Odette and Uberta. I adore the song that opens the film, and "Far Longer Than Forever" is so pretty (while cheesy). "No Fear" is the only song I'm not super into (Well, the villain's song is kinda bad, but I also sort of like it at the same time? It's a similar situation to "Toxic Love" in FernGully for me.).

Redadoodles wrote:
Sotiris wrote:
Actually, we found out that film's real production budget was $65-$70 million and not $105 as it's stated on Box Office Mojo. That's why some hypothesize that Disney exaggerated the film's under-performance to justify eliminating 2D at the studio altogether.


Maybe it was 65 million but that does not cover the marketing costs.
I think that's the point, some have speculated that $65 million was the total budget, not the budget before marketing. I can believe Disney lied, personally. They lie about a lot of things.

I prefer that early design for the blue dress, too. The tiara especially was so much nicer.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:21 pm 
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Then again, I don't understand why John Lassetter would sabotage The Princess And The Frog when he is the one who wanted to bring 2D animation back. I mean, it's not like anyone forced him to do that. He even asked Glen Keane if he wanted to direct Rapunzel in traditional animation..

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:58 am 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
While I didn`t consider Tiana as a particularly memorable character, I didn`t found her to be bland and boring. I thought she had some sass and spunk to her, which made her appealing.

I find Tiana as a character better than the movie she's in. I think in a better movie, she would have shined more.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
It`s contradictory to cast someone as huge as Oprah and not having her promote the movie at all. Which was indeed suprising, given her status.

That was Oprah's stipulation though. It wasn't Disney's decision.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
Moana does have a similar moment where she smacks Maui with her oar, despite having done nothing to her.

The film doesn't present this as a flaw though. Quite the opposite. It's meant to showcase how strong she is and how she doesn't take crap from anyone. By the way, I find that scene sends out the wrong message. That it's OK to use violence just because you're frustrated with someone. I believe physical violence should only be used as a last resort i.e. to defend one self or others.

None of the things you mention about the princesses' supposed flaws were meant to be seen as such by the audience. A lot of the "flaws" people often cite about the princesses were not intentional. It's something audiences read into decades after the movies were released due to cultural shifts. Besides, it's understandable that the leads in an animated movie will have very few, if any flaws, because they're designed to be the good guys that the audience roots for. This goes for male protagonists too. What are the flaws of Hercules, Tarzan, Milo, Ralph or Hiro? You'd be pressed to find any. It's rare that a main character is presented with significant character flaws like in the case of Kuzco or Beast.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
And to add some fuel to the fire, all of those movies feature a non-White protagonist who was transformed.

The Swan Princess doesn't.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I prefer that early design for the blue dress, too. The tiara especially was so much nicer.

I think so too. The early designs for both the dress and the tiara were better.

Redadoodles wrote:
Then again, I don't understand why John Lassetter would sabotage The Princess And The Frog when he is the one who wanted to bring 2D animation back. I mean, it's not like anyone forced him to do that.

I think what Disney's Divinity is saying is that the higher-ups tried to sabotage it. Not Lasseter.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:10 am 
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I think it was good The Princess and the Frog didn't feature racism in a bigger way. I think it would have ruined what is a modern fairy tale young kids can enjoy just as much as older kids and adults.

I've always loved that earlier white dress and lower bun look for Tiana! I think it would have been beautiful to see in the film, but I don't know if I would have preferred it to the blue one or not.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:42 am 
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I think there was too much pressure placed on "The Princess and the Frog" to be this Pixar-sized mega-success that would save hand-drawn animation. When you compare it to the grosses Disney Animation had that decade, the film did respectable enough.

Here's what the Disney Animation films in the 2000s made:
The Princess and the Frog: $269 million
Bolt: $310 million
Meet the Robinsons: $169 million
Chicken Little: $314 million
Home on the Range: $145 million
Brother Bear: $250 million
Treasure Planet: $109 million
Lilo & Stitch: $273 million
Atlantis The Lost Empire: $186 million
The Emperor's New Groove: $169 million
Dinosaur: $349 million
Fantasia 2000: $90 million

I remember at the time Walt Disney Animation was perceived as Pixar's less cool cousin, so it had a uphill battle of convincing people to give it a shot, especially with Home on the Range still being a recent memory in 2009. I don't know why Disney expected a massive leap in grosses from their last few films, when their growth back to prominence was always going to be gradual, much like the journey from The Black Cauldron to The Lion King. I do think Princess and the Frog helped Tangled get to $592 million, as most people who did see it in theatres or eventually at home did come away with a positive opinion and it was seen as a comeback of sorts for the studio.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:18 am 
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DisneyFan09, Tzipporah start out as interesting, but once they get married, all she does is stand by his side and doesn't do anything else. I don't think they are bad characters, just not as memorable as the Disney characters back then and even now.

As for "characters flaws" I think some are more subtle than others and I think it's fine because even we in real life don't go around with a sign that details our flaws. The most common one is identity crisis - Aladdin, Simba, Mulan, Tarzan and Moana.
Then you have Beast, Meg, Kuzco who needs to learn to become better people. Ariel is irresponsible, but I don't think the movie acknowledges it enough, or it does so vaguely and then spins it towards Triton, which it should cause Triton was the one who drove Ariel to Ursula in the first place, but Triton is not the main character. Belle and Pocahontas don't have any flaws whatsoever, I guess we can kind of say that Belle is a bit "snobbish" with her saying "little people", but she's still nice to them, and in her case I don't mind because she's still well defined, she still feels real and three dimensional, which is more than I can say for Pocahontas. John Smith has flaws, the worst one being that he is a murderer, but that one is sort off ignored.
Quasimodo and Rapunzel are not assertive enough and need to learn to stand up to their abusers. I'm not sure what Hercules' flaws are other than being clumsy, but I guess that's because he doesn't really have a clear arc. Does he want to find where he belongs? Be a true hero? Be a successful star (he doesn't but that's sort of brought up as a conflict).
Elsa needs to realize people love her, Anna is too trusting, Raya is not trusting enough.

So with The Princess and the Frog, to me it was quite clear that what they wanted to do is have two characters who are the opposite from one another, that by the end they sort of complete each other and have the other one learn something. It's something I used to dismiss, but then I read this:
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"Tiana has had a tough life: We always related her to Cinderella as more of an underdog princess," says Clements. "And to contrast her with the prince. We were sort of basing things on It Happened One Night in reverse. Tiana in some ways was Clark Gable, and the Prince was Claudette Colbert. We also had Three Little Pigs in mind: Tiana is Practical Pig; the Prince represents the other two pigs combined. Tiana is like Cinderella: She's got to fight, she's got to struggle. She's a little bit of an anti-princess. Charlotte represents the princess dream, and Tiana rejects all that. It's the last thing she's interested in."

and I guess something just clicked. Tiana's flaw is not just working too hard, it's working too hard to the point where she misses out living her life, and Naveen is someone who only enjoys life, but doesn't work and doesn't take responsibility. Then you have those cute moments where she teaches him to mince and he tells her to dance and while they're not as great as the Beast giving Belle the Library and their ballroom dance, it's still a nice intimate moments that work to evolve the characters. Moreover I like that Tiana has a "real-life" goal and not something vague like the other princesses, I like that her issues is what it is because our life is shaped by wanting to succeed, wanting to reach a certain goal without realizing that life is passing by and we might miss things. It might not have been something I'd relate to ten years ago, but it is now, especially in my career. And I also find it refreshing that Tiana gets the role that is usually given to male characters and Naveen gets the role that is given to female characters.

Anyway, when I listened to one of the podcasts with Ron and John they said they had nothing to do with either version that were previously worked on by either Pixar or WDAS, they liked the idea of New Orleans and it was Musker's idea to bring in Randy Newman, which Lasseter approved.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:45 pm 
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M&C are nice people who go along to get along; Ashman talked them into a lot of things as well, from what I remember, although I often agreed with those decisions more than I did with ones Lasseter made. They would probably say they "chose" Moana to be 3D, too, because saying the truth--that they weren't given an option--would be spitting in their employer's eye when it's obvious the employer wanted to downplay the death of hand-drawn animation. Even in retirement, they probably see Disney as having been good to them overall since they were there for many years and they were allowed to release their dream project before it was over (TP) as well as in consideration of how many people at the studio were thrown out the door when Lasseter came aboard and yet they got to keep their jobs (for a while). They're not going to say anything that would make Disney look bad.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
:clap: I've heard this argument that Tiana was supposedly stripped of flaws since 2009. I've never agreed with it.

I`m glad I could please you ;)

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It's nice not be alone. I love many of the characters, but particularly Odette and Uberta. I adore the song that opens the film, and "Far Longer Than Forever" is so pretty (while cheesy). "No Fear" is the only song I'm not super into (Well, the villain's song is kinda bad, but I also sort of like it at the same time? It's a similar situation to "Toxic Love" in FernGully for me.).

I see a lot of love for Uberta, but Speed and Puffin are my favorite characters (not Jean-Bob, since I find him too snooty and off-putting). In hindsight, Lord Rogers is also funny. I like the songs as well, even No More Mr. Nice Guy is too peppy and upbeat to be menacing as a villain song.

Sotiris wrote:
I find Tiana as a character better than the movie she's in. I think in a better movie, she would have shined more.

True. But Tiana faced a lot of critical scrutiny, nonetheless. For being Disney`s first African-American Princess.

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That was Oprah's stipulation though. It wasn't Disney's decision.

Okay. Don`t get me wrong, but I never wanted to imply that Disney were responsible for it.

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The film doesn't present this as a flaw though. Quite the opposite. It's meant to showcase how strong she is and how she doesn't take crap from anyone. By the way, I find that scene sends out the wrong message. That it's OK to use violence just because you're frustrated with someone. I believe physical violence should only be used as a last resort i.e. to defend one self or others.

Agreed. And I have the same policy against violence.

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None of the things you mention about the princesses' supposed flaws were meant to be seen as such by the audience. A lot of the "flaws" people often cite about the princesses were not intentional. It's something audiences read into decades after the movies were released due to cultural shifts. Besides, it's understandable that the leads in an animated movie will have very few, if any flaws, because they're designed to be the good guys that the audience roots for. This goes for male protagonists too. What are the flaws of Hercules, Tarzan, Milo, Ralph or Hiro? You'd be pressed to find any. It's rare that a main character is presented with significant character flaws like in the case of Kuzco or Beast.

Fair enough. Perhaps those shortcomings I`ve mentioned weren`t huge flaws. But it still made those characters flawed to a certain extent. As for Tarzan, I`ve never found him unflawed. I think that he`s somewhat snappy to his adoptive mother quite often and urges his two jungle pals (Terk and Tantor) to distract Kerchak, after having practically ignored them after meeting his own kind. Ralph and Hiro are more flawed, though (especially in the sequel, where Ralph tries to sabotage for Vanellope). Hiro wants to avenge his brother by wanting to kill the villain at first. In fact, Disney characters have a lot more dimension and flaws than people give them credit for, but they`re mostly labeled for being just one-dimensional archetypes. Just for the sake of being fictional characters (which is understandable).

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The Swan Princess doesn't.

Well, The Swan Princess is a rare exception :P Just kidding ;)

farerb wrote:
DisneyFan09, Tzipporah start out as interesting, but once they get married, all she does is stand by his side and doesn't do anything else. I don't think they are bad characters, just not as memorable as the Disney characters back then and even now.

Well, fair enough. But I never thought that she lost her spunk or spark afterwards. So we can agree to disagree.

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Belle and Pocahontas don't have any flaws whatsoever, I guess we can kind of say that Belle is a bit "snobbish" with her saying "little people", but she's still nice to them, and in her case I don't mind because she's still well defined, she still feels real and three dimensional, which is more than I can say for Pocahontas.

Well, while I`ve always been one of Belle`s defenders, she does have a couple of flaws: She does sneak into the West Wing when she wasn`t supposed to. And while it wasn`t intentional, she does expose the Beast to the villagers. But to her credit, she does regret her mistake right away. Pocahontas does disobeys her father by sneaking out to meet John Smith when she wasn`t supposed to, even though it wasn`t her fault that Kocoum was shot and killed.

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John Smith has flaws, the worst one being that he is a murderer, but that one is sort off ignored.

True. But the same goes to Tarzan as well. Since he kills a leopard.

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Quasimodo and Rapunzel are not assertive enough and need to learn to stand up to their abusers.

True, but both of them learns to be assertive (even though Quasimodo should`ve definitively been more assertive to Frollo than he was). While I`ve used to consider Quasimodo as flawless priorly, I`ve come to realize that he isn`t. He treats Phoebus very poorly and even dismisses the Gargoyles at the climax, even though they`ve been on his side the entire time. I`ve always found Rapunzel`s arc to be more satisfying, since it`s more overt. And she manages to stand up to her oppressor in a more satisfying way. But that`s just me, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:27 am 
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I've always felt Tiana is the Disney lead most outshined by the characters around her of all Disney movies. Even by her Prince.

DisneyFan09 wrote:
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John Smith has flaws, the worst one being that he is a murderer, but that one is sort off ignored.

True. But the same goes to Tarzan as well. Since he kills a leopard.

Killing animals is not seen as murder by everyone. Also, didn't he kill in self-defense? That's also not murder.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:22 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I've always felt Tiana is the Disney lead most outshined by the characters around her of all Disney movies. Even by her Prince.

Agreed. Even though Tiana wasn`t a bland character, both her Prince and her villain were far superior characters than her. I don`t count the sidekicks, since I found them annoying.

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Killing animals is not seen as murder by everyone. Also, didn't he kill in self-defense? That's also not murder.

Alright, fair enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:43 am 
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I found even the sidekicks to outshine Tiana, but I understand you didn't, it's ok we disagree on that bit. I'm glad we agree she was outshined by her prince and villain, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:52 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I found even the sidekicks to outshine Tiana, but I understand you didn't, it's ok we disagree on that bit. I'm glad we agree she was outshined by her prince and villain, though.

So do I.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:25 pm 
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farerb wrote:
DisneyFan09, Tzipporah start out as interesting, but once they get married, all she does is stand by his side and doesn't do anything else. I don't think they are bad characters, just not as memorable as the Disney characters back then and even now.

As for "characters flaws" I think some are more subtle than others and I think it's fine because even we in real life don't go around with a sign that details our flaws. The most common one is identity crisis - Aladdin, Simba, Mulan, Tarzan and Moana.
Then you have Beast, Meg, Kuzco who needs to learn to become better people. Ariel is irresponsible, but I don't think the movie acknowledges it enough, or it does so vaguely and then spins it towards Triton, which it should cause Triton was the one who drove Ariel to Ursula in the first place, but Triton is not the main character. Belle and Pocahontas don't have any flaws whatsoever, I guess we can kind of say that Belle is a bit "snobbish" with her saying "little people", but she's still nice to them, and in her case I don't mind because she's still well defined, she still feels real and three dimensional, which is more than I can say for Pocahontas. John Smith has flaws, the worst one being that he is a murderer, but that one is sort off ignored.
Quasimodo and Rapunzel are not assertive enough and need to learn to stand up to their abusers. I'm not sure what Hercules' flaws are other than being clumsy, but I guess that's because he doesn't really have a clear arc. Does he want to find where he belongs? Be a true hero? Be a successful star (he doesn't but that's sort of brought up as a conflict).
Elsa needs to realize people love her, Anna is too trusting, Raya is not trusting enough.


You could argue that Pocahontas’s flaw is that she is too curious and irresponsible. When you think about it, the only reason John Smith didn’t shoot her was because she’s hot.. so, she’d be dead if it wasn’t for her beauty. For Hercules, his flaw is that his lack of self worth drives him to desire fame which he thinks will fill a gap that’s missing in his life. He confused fame with being a true hero.
As for Naveen, his playboy persona is really just a mask to cover his insecurities and his lack of self worth as well.
Actually a lot of Disney males have a self worth issue such as Flynn, Kristoff, Kuzco, Aladdin and Simba.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:01 pm 
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When will this movie resume filming ?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:45 am 
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I believe this movie resumed filming just a few weeks ago.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:43 pm 
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Redadoodles wrote:
You could argue that Pocahontas’s flaw is that she is too curious and irresponsible. When you think about it, the only reason John Smith didn’t shoot her was because she’s hot.. so, she’d be dead if it wasn’t for her beauty.

Funny, but true. But I`ll have to disagree about her irresponsibility. In fact, I find her to be very opposite in many ways, especially how she acts when the conflict truly escalates. And sure, sneaking out to meet John Smith the last time could be perceived as irresponsible. But she still does it to have a closure between the two races. No offense, though.

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As for Naveen, his playboy persona is really just a mask to cover his insecurities and his lack of self worth as well. Actually a lot of Disney males have a self worth issue such as Flynn, Kristoff, Kuzco, Aladdin and Simba.

True. But to be honest, I`ll always thought it was a satisfying moment for Naveen. Even though it`s a small moment, I found it to be very compelling. Since it was culminating his character in such an economic, yet relatable way.


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