The Little Mermaid Discussion

[Disney's Divinity]

I have the Xanadu OBC recording, but I only got it because I loved Cheyenne Jackson at the Tony Awards. That's the show that introduced me to him and I've been a fan of his ever since, his voice is epic and gorgeous. Too bad WDAS has never used him for a musical film, but they don't make male-driven musicals anymore. Butler's better in Xanadu than she was as Ariel. IDK, I just think her voice is so nasal and flat, I'm not crazy about her. She's definitely not as good as Olivia Newton-John or anything, but she has some fun moments.

[Disney Duster]

When watching the remake, I realized there is a plot hole in both it and the original. After Eric grazes Ursula's arm with a harpoon, he swims up for air, and Ursula sends Flotsam and Jetsam after him...instead of shooting him with the trident. He was just going to the surface. She had a clear shot of him no matter if he reached the surface or not! I guess the story team had to think of some way to make Ursula get mad enough to become huge!

[DisneyFan09]

Hey guys! I`ve recently made a new entry to my blog about the live action remake of Mermaid. Where I`m discussing both the remake and the franchise: https://mydisneyanimationanalysis.blogs ... depth.html

[Atlantis]

Revisiting the OGOG with the Disney OG

[Lele]

I think it's also interesting that in the original she doesn't sing to him on the beach(though that makes sense considering the writing style, in a written form I think it would have looked weird), and neither does she in the 1975 japanese version.
The first animated version that introduces her singing to him, if I'm not wrong, is the 1968 russian version, and they, too, made it a plot point where the prince remembers her singing and asks her to sing to him again; and when he realized she can't, he thinks that then it can't be her who saved him.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D8n6qlEc4gc

[Disney Duster]

The last images are hilarious together!

[VanessaFan]

Here are some really interesting story skecthes from the Disney Book "The Little Mermaid: The Full Film Script"
Apparently, the harpoon that Eric shoots at Ursula, hits her in the back, releasing blood or ink maybe. Also, when Ursula has grown huge, she grabs both Ariel and Eric and has rocks rise out of the ocean. I love that we get to see the wedding ship in the storm as well. Another great thing here, is that Ursula has waves hitting Prince Eric's castle. I would have loved to see that in the animated film. I also love the short of Ursula in the ocean with lightning in the sky and the castle in the background. One thing I wish, is that we saw other characters in the final battle. Like Ariel's sisters. Just a shot of them, reacting to the storm in the sea. Also, the wedding guests on the ship. That would have been cool I think.

[Disney's Divinity]

You can feel how a lot of the work on this scene laid the groundwork for the climax of Aladdin as well. The tentacle that becomes her face reminds me of him becoming a snake, or her lying back among the waves and riding atop a tidal wave in an almost defiance of gravity as if the ocean is her bed or car reminds me of the scene of Jafar releasing magic as he becomes a genie--the sheer joy of unbridled power. I kind of like the idea of Ursula fading into smoke after Eric hits her with the harpoon (similar to the first version of the ending where she becomes black foam after Eric shoots her with the trident when she was trying to drown/strangle him). The idea of her sending waves at Eric's castle is an idea I had recently as something they could have her do if they ever brought the world back in a future Kingdom Hearts game, actually. Overall, I think they made the right choices in the film--instead of riding a wave she uses the ocean like it's one big cauldron and also how they did the confrontation with Triton was much better (not reading from the scroll, fingering the trident rather than the crown, having Triton blast Ursula with the scroll rather than the pool of light around Ariel, Ariel only transforming midway rather than fully into a polyp, Ursula twirling the trident and laughing once she's got it rather than shooting off bolts, etc.). I do like the one drawing of her smiling over the trident Triton has pointed in her face though. I've always thought that the scene reminds me of the Fantasia short (the one where the dinosaurs die from the heat, the earth is rent in an earthquake, lava and waves come, etc.), the idea of her bringing up a mountain is another reminder.

The one shot of Ursula when she's finally got the trident and goes ballistic looks to me like it may have been re-used by the people who worked on the DTV sequel (as in maybe they looked through things like this before or during work on that film to get a feel of things possibly) because Morgana's reaction when she gets the trident is so similar to that drawing.

[Disney Duster]

I would have liked to see the wedding ship, guests, Ariel's sisters, and Eric's castle with waves hitting it in the climax as well. But what we got is fine.

[Disney's Divinity]

Looking through the script book, it's interesting to finally read Clements' 2-page script that he submitted to Katzenberg (I believe it's the first time I've seen it although I'd heard it spoke of in other details before). So originally Vanessa would lock Ariel in a cell or room, a bit Cinderella-esque. I think this initial plan for Ariel to "die" at the climax and be revived--aside from being a way to involve the original tale there--may have ended up being an idea that was carried over into the making of B&tB (and then re-used again for Tangled).

I've always loved that concept art of Triton, the one where he's at the left side of the image and his tale is orange and almost serpentine (the way it curls around the bottom of the image). To me, that definitely sets the tone for the character and lead to the finished product, whereas some of the others feel too silly. The one of him as a plump king on his throne looks like it might've been an idea carried over to the Sultan in Aladdin--I never have liked the Sultan because of how un-serious he is, always liked that Triton felt like a real ruler with all the protective and forceful qualities. The comments from Pat Carroll and Grimsby's VA about their characters made me laugh.

I used to always think those old Walt drawings (Kay Neilsen, I think I spelled the artist's name right) of his brief thoughts about taking on TLM made me think perhaps the characters were supposed to be Asian? But I suppose maybe he was simply imitating Snow White with the pale skin and dark hair. Those images are beautiful, the way the hair extends out like long ribbons in the Walt artwork is really pretty. That said, I wouldn't exchange the redhead we got in the finished product at all, the vivid red on the blue backgrounds just pops. Interesting to hear it was a quagmire for the animators, but the difficulty of animating long, flowing hair unbound by the rules of gravity clearly ended up being a huge boon to the film. It's beautiful.

So Alana was named by Ashman after Alan Menken... And they changed the names in the remake. TBH, the names being changed was always stupid and pointless--the sisters are probably in the remake less than the original even since they don't even have a song anymore--but now it ends up coming across disrespectful.

I may be alone, but I wish they'd release a book with the full storyboarding of this film (or other films as well) for fans to buy. I LOVE that stuff. I'd also love if they had a book with the entire film in hand-drawn form (before cleanup and ink & paint), too, but I know they'd never release something like that for cheap when an individual cel is sometimes sold for hundreds of dollars. Maybe they would for storyboards though.

[Disney Duster]

But Divinity, Snow White, Pinocchio, and Baloo were "dead" and revived way before the Ariel idea.

Your ideas for books in storyboard and hand-drawn form are brilliant! They should totally happen!

[Disney's Divinity]

In the write-up, Eric comes to protect Ariel from the witch that had taken her after he finds the note back at the castle that she had written for him explaining that she had been the girl who rescued him. After Ursula's defeat, he finds Ariel dead and finally declares his love for her, the declaration being what brings her back to life, returns her voice, and makes her human again (without Triton having anything to do with it all). I think the declaration of love on the deathbed aspect of the moment and her changing form makes it more similar to how Belle finally declares her love as Beast dies, which revives him. I just think it's neat it might've played a small role in story development on B&tB and I don't think it's that weird with B&tB being worked on at the same time this film was going on, I'm sure there was a lot of crossover between people behind-the-scenes even if the directors were different.

Ultimately, despite that attempt to keep the death part of the tale in some way, I'm glad it didn't end that way and it ultimately suits B&tB's story much more. I see TLM more about Triton and Ariel's relationship, so him making her human (giving her her freedom) is a better choice for me.

[Lele]

To me, one of the best parts of the original tale was her sisters giving up their hair, with some adaptations changing it to her sisters giving up everything they owned, to try to save her. It's a pity this aspect wasn't used in any way by Disney by making the sisters play any role in saving her, and they were totally replaced by the father/daughter relationship. It would have been more faithful to the original source to let her sisters somehow find a way to save her.

[Disney Duster]

Ohhhh...yes Divinity, that specific way of Ariel being revived, and becoming human no less, is very BatB. I also agree it turned out better the way they did it in the final Mermaid film.

[Disney's Divinity]

To me, one of the best parts of the original tale was her sisters giving up their hair, with some adaptations changing it to her sisters giving up everything they owned, to try to save her. It's a pity this aspect wasn't used in any way by Disney by making the sisters play any role in saving her, and they were totally replaced by the father/daughter relationship. It would have been more faithful to the original source to let her sisters somehow find a way to save her.

Yeah, the Sea King is almost irrelevant in the fairy tale, her grandmother and sisters play more role than he does; although the film makes his role more meaningful, it also turns him and the Witch both into villains even if he is redeemed at the end. As far as the animated film, I think I've wrote in the past how interesting it would've been if, instead of Triton coming to meet Ursula, Ursula went to him instead. I think of a scene of her strolling (or swimming ) through the palace gates and into the court, amidst all the merfolk gawping in terror, holding Ariel by arm, would've been interesting. It would've been a nice play on her first scene scoffing at them all and their celebration. And that way Ariel's sisters would've been there as the mediation between her and Triton over Ariel happens, perhaps they attack her with Ariel after Triton becomes a polyp. I imagine they limited the sisters in part because you still get the familial sacrifice in Triton taking Ariel's place (and he sacrifices even more for her than they did in the tale) while also reducing the number of characters to animate.

That said, that would've eliminated a lot of urgency perhaps. I like that Sebastian sort of allots Flounder and Scuttle with jobs to do while he gets the King and his "HMPH!" at her when Triton appears. It makes Sebastian a stronger character and the climax more tense with all the characters doing something in that way. Plus, no way for Eric to be involved if they swim off to deep underwater.

[Disney Duster]

But Triton going to Ursula to save his daughter just makes sense! And Eric being there to save his love makes the romance better!

[Disney's Divinity]

Yeah. I said that...

[Disney Duster]

You said it would eliminate "some urgency", that's what you said! And I didn't see you say anything about the romance!

[Disney's Divinity]

If you say so!

[Lele]

To me, one of the best parts of the original tale was her sisters giving up their hair, with some adaptations changing it to her sisters giving up everything they owned, to try to save her. It's a pity this aspect wasn't used in any way by Disney by making the sisters play any role in saving her, and they were totally replaced by the father/daughter relationship. It would have been more faithful to the original source to let her sisters somehow find a way to save her.

Yeah, the Sea King is almost irrelevant in the fairy tale, her grandmother and sisters play more role than he does; although the film makes his role more meaningful, it also turns him and the Witch both into villains even if he is redeemed at the end. As far as the animated film, I think I've wrote in the past how interesting it would've been if, instead of Triton coming to meet Ursula, Ursula went to him instead. I think of a scene of her strolling (or swimming ) through the palace gates and into the court, amidst all the merfolk gawping in terror, holding Ariel by arm, would've been interesting. It would've been a nice play on her first scene scoffing at them all and their celebration. And that way Ariel's sisters would've been there as the mediation between her and Triton over Ariel happens, perhaps they attack her with Ariel after Triton becomes a polyp. I imagine they limited the sisters in part because you still get the familial sacrifice in Triton taking Ariel's place (and he sacrifices even more for her than they did in the tale) while also reducing the number of characters to animate.

That said, that would've eliminated a lot of urgency perhaps. I like that Sebastian sort of allots Flounder and Scuttle with jobs to do while he gets the King and his "HMPH!" at her when Triton appears. It makes Sebastian a stronger character and the climax more tense with all the characters doing something in that way. Plus, no way for Eric to be involved if they swim off to deep underwater.

I never thought about it that way, but Ursula doing this would have been very fitting for her character. It would have been interesting to see