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 Post subject: Transformers
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:24 pm 
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It is sad that the Transformers version that most people are aware of these days is the Michael Bay version. Not that there is anything wrong in being a fan of the movies, but personally I stopped seeing them a couple of movies ago. The problem with today's Transformers is that they feel more like human characters disguised as huge robots.
I'm mentioning Transformers here because of the comic book version that was published by Marvel, now owned by Disney, in the 80s. I'm not sure if it is because of the director, producer or scriptwriter, but the movies feels nothing like the comics, which has so much potential. They did use the idea of Spark, called the Matrix or something in the comic I think, but again, very little in common with the original material.

If we could get a director, scriptwriter and producer that were big fans of the comic, and possibly also the animated 80s version, we could get an amazing movie. (The newer comics is nothing like the old ones, and the digital colors makes my eyes hurt.) Not sure how the ownership of the stories would be solved, but since the Transformers universe (the Marvel version) already exist inside the head of the fans, they could expand it by adding their own stories to it.

The same with the Star Wars comic published by Marvel in the 80s. The comic book world was so full of interesting concept and ideas that reached far beyond the movies. One reason is that only three movies were made, each with a single story, while Marvel could publish dozens of new stories. And without being restricted by budget or technological limitations regarding special and visual effects. Make some spin-off Star Wars films based on some of these ideas, there is plenty of material and characters to choose from.


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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:47 am 
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Transformers movies are terrible on top of featuring ugly and unnecessarily busy robot designs. Half the time you can't even tell who's who. They were supposedly going for an organic look, but what is organic about metal? There was nothing wrong with G1 designs that they had to be changed to that extent. There's a Bumblebee prequel/spin-off coming out later this year and it's directed by Travis Knight, head of Laika studio. He's of right age to have experienced Transformers TV show as a kid/teen (and the movie is also set in the '80s!), so I'm hoping he gives the characters their due. I'm also hoping the movie turns out to be a reboot, so those Michael Bay abominations are wiped from continuity if not from public's collective memory.
EDIT: I guess not, the trailer just came out and it is a prequel, and the characters feature those complicated designs again. Oh well, maybe the story itself will be good.

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The same with the Star Wars comic published by Marvel in the 80s. The comic book world was so full of interesting concept and ideas that reached far beyond the movies. One reason is that only three movies were made, each with a single story, while Marvel could publish dozens of new stories. And without being restricted by budget or technological limitations regarding special and visual effects. Make some spin-off Star Wars films based on some of these ideas, there is plenty of material and characters to choose from.

This is very true. I recently (re)read some Disney prequel comics for The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and for such short stories, they're miles above the DTV continuations/prequels in terms of story ideas and locations, and they tie nicely into the original films. I urge everyone to read TLM's Serpent-Teen (it would have been a much better DTV prequel than Ariel's Beginning, blech!), and BatB's Bewitched/Bothered/Bewildered and Elsewhere/Elsewhen. I think they're all available for free online, you can find scans on Disney's wikia pages.

I think it's because comics cost less to produce and they're a cheaper investment, so they're free to play around with ideas and are not limited by budgets or subjected to scrutiny as a feature film would be.


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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:41 am 
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Thanks for the recommendations Mooky! I'll look them up.

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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:43 am 
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You're more than welcome! If you're looking for a physical copy to own, may I recommend Disney Princess Comics Treasury? That's where I first read the TLM ones. It's an 800 pages collection of official comic book adaptations of every canon Disney Princess movie (minus Moana and Frozen), both Aladdin sequels, TLM and BatB prequel comics, and a couple of others.


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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Mooky wrote:
This is very true. I recently (re)read some Disney prequel comics for The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast and for such short stories, they're miles above the DTV continuations/prequels in terms of story ideas and locations, and they tie nicely into the original films. I urge everyone to read TLM's Serpent-Teen (it would have been a much better DTV prequel than Ariel's Beginning, blech!), and BatB's Bewitched/Bothered/Bewildered and Elsewhere/Elsewhen. I think they're all available for free online, you can find scans on Disney's wikia pages.

I made a thread here about the Beauty and the Beast: The New Adventures comic years ago when I rediscovered my old copy in the basement, haha. Scanned all the stories but never got around to posting "Elsewhen," and since that's two hard-drives ago, I don't know if I have those files anywhere.

Albert

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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Oh, man, that was such a long time ago! You posting those scans actually prompted me to look for the comic on eBay so I could add it to my collection. It's such a wonderful little addition to the BatB mythos.


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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Mooky wrote:
I guess not, the trailer just came out and it is a prequel, and the characters feature those complicated designs again. Oh well, maybe the story itself will be good.

Doubtful. It looks like an Iron Giant rip-off.

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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Too bad, I had hoped the Bumblebee movie, which I hadn't even heard of before now, would pretend the Michael Bay movies never happened. But I assume the movie went into production before the latest Transformers movie, which did not turn out to be the huge successes its predecessors had been. But one can always hope it doesn't repeat the same mistakes the others Transformers movies did.

They are so hard to tell apart that you barely remember who's who from one movie to the next with the exception of a very few. Don't know what they mean about the "organic look", but it could be that all of them have human facial expressions, are grown in in-vitro uteruses and pee, farts, smoke cigars, have beard, are corpulent, and age like humans do (even if much slower).

It's not the first time Hollywood has been given a concept on a silver platter, have no idea what to do with it, and messes it all up.

Must confess that I have never read any of the Disney prequel comics for The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. (I do have some old comics from the 60s, I think, that I got from my grandmother, which have characters like Pinocchio interacting with other Disney characters.)

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I think it's because comics cost less to produce and they're a cheaper investment, so they're free to play around with ideas and are not limited by budgets or subjected to scrutiny as a feature film would be.


The best thing one can do is give talented writers/artists free hands, like Carl Barks and Floyd Gottfredson had. Which usually happens when the editors little interest for the editors. Stan Lee and Steve Ditko were allowed to create Spider-Man and put it in the Amazing Fantasy comic because it sold so badly that it was cancelled, so they couldn't possibly make it worse. Claremont and Byrne were also allowed to do whatever they wanted with the X-Men, and made it Marvel's best selling title (and what did Bryan Singer and Brett Ratner do with them?). The same with Peter David and Hulk. But when Hulk gradually turned more popular, the suits noticed and started interfering, telling the writer what to do, frustrating Peter David to such a degree that he eventually left.
Once a title sell good enough to be noticed, some always get the idea that they want it to sell even better and they are always willing to do whatever they can to draw attention to potential buyers by using various gimmicks like killing off a major character. Never mind that it will leave the loyal readers devastated, at least it will be written about in the media and make sure collectors are buying the issue. Instead of allowing the comics to do what they originally did; give the readers great stories to read (and now and then not so great), they become dependent on "big ideas" that may work for a while, but which gradually eat the original comic away.


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 Post subject: Re: Transformers
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
They are so hard to tell apart that you barely remember who's who from one movie to the next with the exception of a very few. Don't know what they mean about the "organic look", but it could be that all of them have human facial expressions, are grown in in-vitro uteruses and pee, farts, smoke cigars, have beard, are corpulent, and age like humans do (even if much slower).

Sort of. I believe it refers to how their robot-modes don't truly look robotic, bulky, sharp-edged or cuboid in form (in other words, how the cartoon robots looked like), but rather how their parts shift around and grow mass to give them appearance of muscles, and make them seem human-like.

Citroën made this commercial in the early 2000s and this is what I expected a live-action Transfomer would look like. I guess the robot appeared too frail for the type of combat/destruction/war movie Michael Bay would have it star in :roll:


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