Tangled (& Tangled Ever After) Discussion: Part VII

[Sotiris]

While I was watching it, I wrote down when the additional musical numbers start in case someone wants to watch just those moments.

Thanks for doing that. I'm sure people will find it useful. I watched the entire thing and I Ioved it. I think this is proof Tangled would make a great Broadway musical.

It was lovely. The pacing was a bit weird though, seemed like they rushed through the second half, and it's weird they didn't put any credits, not even in the description.

It did feel a bit rushed, probably because they wanted to keep it just hour-long. Yeah, I hate it when they don't include credits. It's kinda disrespectful to the cast and crew involved.

[rodrigo_ca]

Disney Parks has a weird rule where cast is never credited. If you see an actor you like in a show at their parks or cruises, good luck to you finding out who they are. It's easier nowadays with social media and all, but it really wouldn't kill them. I found "Flynn"'s instagram a while back when I watched the musical but I seem to have lost it.

Interesting that they pulled new footage from the show (probably from marketing) and made a new version of the proshot shown in the cabins, although there are some weird cuts (I think after I've Got a Dream Rapunzel and Flynn just jump from one side to the stage to the next because they actually go through the audience during the scene change and they just cut it lol).

Still, a cute production for something done under a probably very short budget and meant to be shown in a cruise and share the theater with other productions (I guess I feel kinda sorry for Rapunzel having half of her acting choices limited to "I need to hold two meters of hair", but what can you do). I like some solutions like the set of the tower being made of hair. Hope it makes its way to the parks one day.

[Farerb]

Disney Parks has a weird rule where cast is never credited. If you see an actor you like in a show at their parks or cruises, good luck to you finding out who they are. It's easier nowadays with social media and all, but it really wouldn't kill them. I found "Flynn"'s instagram a while back when I watched the musical but I seem to have lost it.

https://instagram.com/slicknickicarus?i ... wryn2mjdtm

[Disney's Divinity]

Thank you, D82, that's very kind! It'll take me a while to go through solely the new songs, much less the whole show.

[rodrigo_ca]

Glenn Slater says this is the closest we get to Tangled on Broadway "for now".

The FULL version of our #Tangled live cruise-ship show is now on Youtube. Fantastic production, terrific cast, and 3 brand-new songs by me and @AIMenken! The closest you'll get to Tangled on Broadway...for now.
https://twitter.com/SlaterLyrics/status ... 3897675776

[D82]

Thank you, D82, that's very kind! It'll take me a while to go through solely the new songs, much less the whole show.

No problem! I'm glad you found it useful.

I watched the entire thing and I Ioved it. I think this is proof Tangled would make a great Broadway musical.

I found it quite enjoyable too. I agree it would make a great Broadway musical.

[Disney's Divinity]

I was able to watch the show the past day. I thought it was pretty good for what it was; I can only imagine how great a Broadway show could be if even this was this good. I will be honest that I had a mixed reaction to the new songs. I loved "When She Returns" and all the new reprises, the ending was very well-done. "Flower of Gold" felt like it could be stronger with a little more work though, but I didn't like "Wanted Man" at all. I almost thought there would be a reprise of "Wanted Man" at the end actually, because now he is a "wanted" man (wanted by Rapunzel) and no longer a fake and an orphan. I kind of wish they kept the very end of MKB (reprise) the same, with Gothel shouting.

I think it was smart to make Rapunzel's tower a part of the logo. They should do the same if they ever go to Broadway, to help people know the story is of the fairy tale, Rapunzel, because the Tangled title is just not memorable... At least going by how they changed the title of the TV series to help viewers to know what the show was.

[Sotiris]

The 10th anniversary logo.


Source: https://www.disney.co.jp/fc/princess/rapunzel10.html

[Disney Duster]

Nice idea for a logo. I can't believe it's been ten years!

[Disney's Divinity]

I was going to say the logo used the same idea as the one for the TV series--of using her hair for the border--but then I couldn't remember if the original film's logo also did that before the series came along or not?

[D82]

Glen Keane talks about the version of the film he was going to direct in a new interview:

I want to talk a little bit about your time at Disney. You were supposed to direct Tangled. How did it change after you left?
We were approaching Rapunzel using a Rembrandt style, where she’s coming out of the dark. There was darkness to the version of the movie that I wanted to make, and that turned out to be not so Disney-like. We had a screening and everybody was like, “I didn’t know we could make that kind of a movie. This is really exciting.” And it really, truly was. But it was pushing the needle away from, maybe, mainstream Disney. I mean, it was a good film. It was so much about this love and healing. It really had so much depth to it. All I can say is that I loved that movie. Then, in the process of changing it — it was very difficult to take something that you love and change it and change it and change it until … Then there was a heart attack that I had. At that point, I stepped off it and just supervised the animation, and that was a pure joy. And Byron [Howard] and Nathan [Greno] came in, and they really delivered a wonderful, fun film. But I felt like I grew in a lot of ways as a director through that. Because I was out there working on it for probably five years before that happened.

So your version of the film was fairly far along. Does it exist in any form anywhere?
It does, on some DVDs that I’ve got spirited away.

Do you think there’s any chance we’d see that version at some point?
I don’t know. I’d have to have you come over, and we’d have some beers, and then I could pull it out. But, no, I have to respect Disney’s choice on that. That’s who they are. It was difficult, but I cherish those days with the studio and will always have that Disney DNA in my heart.

Source: https://www.vulture.com/2020/10/disney- ... lanet.html

[rodrigo_ca]

Sadness ensues.


Maybe someday Disney will realize they could make a killing at Disney+ releasing stuff like that. Just as it is, no need to spend a single dime on it. Perhaps along with a nice documentary on the film's production and how whatever version they decide to release became the version we saw. Kinda The Lost Chords, but with movies.

[Disney Duster]

Rodrigo_ca, I feel exactly the same way and really want that to happen. Good God, I wish we got Glen Keane's dark, Rembrandt painterly CGI, Rapunzel-titled movie instead of Tangled!

Thank you for posting that D82! Amazing find!

[Sotiris]

Glen Keane talks about the version of the film he was going to direct in a new interview.

Glen is much more candid now about the Tangled debacle in interviews that before. He admitted for the first time that Lasseter, without naming him, of course, kept pushing him to change his vision to the point nothing was left of it. No wonder Glen's health deteriorated. Who wouldn't be affected by the anguish of having to watch your brainchild get butchered. I feel really sorry for him and for us who will never get to witness his vision. Who knows what would have happened if Glen got to finish what he started. Maybe it would have changed the course of Western animation forever.

Maybe someday Disney will realize they could make a killing at Disney+ releasing stuff like that. Just as it is, no need to spend a single dime on it. Perhaps along with a nice documentary on the film's production and how whatever version they decide to release became the version we saw. Kinda The Lost Chords, but with movies.

That's an idea that would make any Disney fan drool over, but it's never going to happen. If they are unwilling to release something like The Sweatbox which is already finished, they're not going to spend any money and resources to make new documentaries that makes them look bad and makes the audience wish a previous iteration of an established Disney movie was released instead.

[Farerb]

I'm going to be in a minority here (as always) and say that after watching Over the Moon, I'm glad we got Tangled instead of Keane's version. Don't get me wrong, Over the Moon was fine, but it had its own issues and from what I learned about Keane's version of Rapunzel, it was much more cynical and mean spirited than what Tangled turned out to be, so I doubt that it would have been the revolution the animation industry needed. The outcome could have been the opposite and resulted in Pixar being the only animation studio under the Disney umbrella. I feel like being a good animator doesn't automatically make one a good director and to me it seems that Keane has inferiority complex and that he doesn't take criticism really well. Making movies is eventually a collaborative effort of numerous people involved, not just one man. It's especially true to animation.

[Sotiris]

From what I learned about Keane's version of Rapunzel, it was much more cynical and mean spirited than what Tangled turned out to be.

Never heard that before. From what I read, it was serious and sincere, not cynical, unless you're referring to the Unbraided version which Keane himself didn't care for and was imposed by Eisner/Stainton.

To me it seems that Keane has inferiority complex and that he doesn't take criticism really well.

I never got that vibe from him when reading his interviews or watching him talk. Particular and single-minded, perhaps, but not as having an inferiority complex or not accepting criticism.

Making movies is eventually a collaborative effort of numerous people involved, not just one man. It's especially true to animation.

There's a difference between working with a crew to achieve a singular vision and a film made by committee. Artistic greatness is rarely achieved by having many cooks in the kitchen.

[Disney's Divinity]

Glen Keane talks about the version of the film he was going to direct in a new interview.

Glen is much more candid now about the Tangled debacle in interviews that before. He admitted for the first time that Lasseter, without naming him, of course, kept pushing him to change his vision to the point nothing was left of it. No wonder Glen's health deteriorated. Who wouldn't be affected by the anguish of having to watch your brainchild get butchered. I feel really sorry for him and for us who will never get to witness his vision. Who knows what would have happened if Glen got to finish what he started. Maybe it would have changed the course of Western animation forever.

I talked in the TP thread about Disney's transition to 3D animation, and how Disney has made no real impression with the medium. Something like Paperman or Keane's Rapunzel would've been Disney making the medium their own instead of aping PIXAR, but naturally PIXAR's driving force wouldn't have wanted Disney to be a force again. I think Lasseter enjoyed Disney being the numero dos studio, and wouldn't have allowed anything to happen that would change that dynamic on his watch. So happy he's gone.

While I liked Rapunzel in the finished film (even if so much of her feels like an Ariel ripoff), I've been consistent in always wishing we'd got Keane's version where there was subtlety to Mother Gothel instead of the ham we got in the finished film. Maybe Keane's version of Gothel would've had a better design, too.

[DisneyFan09]

Never heard that before. From what I read, it was serious and sincere, not cynical, unless you're referring to the Unbraided version which Keane himself didn't care for and was imposed by Eisner/Stainton.

Agreed. Glen Keane is known for believing in heartfelt sincerity, so I highly doubt he would`ve gone against something like that.

[Farerb]

Yeah I thought Rapunzel Unbraided was his version but apparently it wasn't, my mistake. Maybe someone could correct me but I've searched about the matter and saw that he still wanted to keep the angle of a witch turning two modern children into Rapunzel and her prince. I also read that he worked on this for seven years and still had issues (whether in the story or technological I do not know, I'm guessing with the story cause if it were technology they could have told him to just work with what he had) but consider this: Rapunzel is being funded by the Company's money. The Disney Board expects a solid return on that money within a sensible amount of time and the project's budget just keeps growing. There is only so long they are going to allow anybody to work on a project before they pull the plug or assign that project to somebody else, and seven years is a long time to be working on a project spending the studio's money and not having a finished product. I also believe that since Keane eventually became a producer and animation director, not all of his ideas were thrown and they didn't start the whole thing from scratch.

[Sotiris]

While I liked Rapunzel in the finished film (even if so much of her feels like an Ariel ripoff), I've been consistent in always wishing we'd got Keane's version where there was subtlety to Mother Gothel instead of the ham we got in the finished film. Maybe Keane's version of Gothel would've had a better design, too.

My favorite version of Gothel was the one based on Michelle Pfeiffer.

Maybe someone could correct me but I've searched about the matter and saw that he still wanted to keep the angle of a witch turning two modern children into Rapunzel and her prince.

No, that idea was thrown out with Unbraided.

I also read that he worked on this for seven years and still had issues (whether in the story or technological I do not know, I'm guessing with the story cause if it were technology they could have told him to just work with what he had) but consider this: Rapunzel is being funded by the Company's money. The Disney Board expects a solid return on that money within a sensible amount of time and the project's budget just keeps growing. There is only so long they are going to allow anybody to work on a project before they pull the plug or assign that project to somebody else, and seven years is a long time to be working on a project spending the studio's money and not having a finished product.

You're not taking into account the change of leadership at the studio. Every new person at the helm wanted something different from the project. If Stainton remained, Unbraided would have moved forward as it was at a pretty advanced stage. I don't see how that is Glen's fault.

I also believe that since Keane eventually became a producer and animation director, not all of his ideas were thrown and they didn't start the whole thing from scratch.

No, almost everything was changed. The only thing that remained was some characterization for Rapunzel and the basic premise of the fairytale.