I have to do this, because finally you had an interesting response that wasn't just "this is bullshit, you're crazy" before Enigmawing rightfully cut us off. (Thanks for making this thread E.)
Lazario wrote:SWillie! wrote:By saying that the idea that the child is upset by the bully telling him about Santa is not believable, you brought the discussion into real life.
No, that was your justification for calling me heartless. What I said was that a movie's decision to expect us to sympathize with a child whose biggest problem is learning that Santa isn't real is not mature- it's stupid.
Either way, you were arguing that feeling sorry for someone learning this is unfounded. I, obviously, disagreed wholeheartedly.
"Lazario"]
SWillie! wrote:You thought it not believable, and yet it should be because it actually happens in real life.
Yeah, and you chose to make a very big deal out of it. Which is damn ridiculous because I know children who were beaten by their parents (I was one of them, thank you very much), and dealt with things like life-threatening diseases (two cousins of mine DIED from one), gang violence (another one of my cousins who was shot to death), suicide, parental drug abuse, rape and sexual abuse, ETC. It's sad that kids have to cry and be disappointed in life. But it's a learning experience and at worst, it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. It never has been and it never will be. And you can argue otherwise all you want to, but you are wrong. And the fact that you keep harping so much on this insane point of yours forces me to question how much in life you've actually experienced.
Is this what you wanted? Because that is what you get when you call me heartless.
YES! This IS what I wanted! Finally a real reason as to why you disagreed so strongly with everything I was saying! Now we can have a legitimate discussion.
First things first: I never once said or even implied that learning the truth about Santa is the
worst thing a child can be put through. I hope you understand that I am aware that there are worse things in the world.
I really am sorry to hear this though. I meant no offense and if I dug up some deeper stuff that you would rather not discuss, then I'm sorry. But I really never tried to pretend that the Santa thing was the worst thing in the world. It obviously isn't, and there are very real problems out there.
BUT, in the world of The Santa Claus film, that
is the biggest problem. There are kids out there who, even though I'm sure it's hard for someone that has been through so much, like yourself, to imagine... don't have any larger issues than the problems presented in the film.
You are right in assuming that I haven't been through anything overly harsh. The biggest crime committed against me was someone breaking into my car at night to steal my radio. The biggest loss I've gone through is my grandparents dying of cancer, which is hardly uncommon. My life has been ridiculously easy in comparison to some others.
But Lazario, while I am truly sorry that you have gone through some much harder things... I don't think it's fair of you to think
less of someone simply because they
haven't. And that's what you're doing here. You are of the opinion that anyone that can buy into a world where the biggest problem is Santa's believability is utterly stupid. When, for some people, that
is the world they live in. When I was that age, and finding out those things, that was,
honestly, my biggest issue. I recognize that for many that isn't the case, and it's horrible that it has to be so much worse for others. It's not fair. But it's the truth.
So, even though you, personally, can't buy into the film because of the lack of "real-world" problems, doesn't mean that anyone who does is an idiot, like you believe. It's hardly like I'm the only one who enjoys the film. (On that note, please do remember that I admitted that it might be nostalgia in me that enjoys it. I recognize that it isn't a "well made" film and that there are many flaws. But it's entertaining to me! It's funny! Not every film has to be a masterpiece in order to be entertaining.)
I understand and accept that you don't like the movie. I wish you could do the same for people who don't share your taste in film, rather than resort to calling people idiots for liking something you feel "shouldn't" be likable.
Lazario wrote:SWillie! wrote:I'm sorry if I took it further than the boundaries of the film, but anyone that implies that my passion of letting children believe in magic is somehow "wrong" or "troubling" is a personal attack, and is, in my opinion, very immature.
Will you get with the program for 2 seconds? I'm not the only one who thinks your replies have been strange to say the least but NOBODY said a damn thing about your trip on children believing in magic. Nobody else cares. In fact, you've been the one painting this absurd picture of people with an obsession for destroying children's fantasies. And you spearheaded the discussion here because I said there are bigger problems in the world. You actually want to tell me I'm wrong about that or can we both agree that this thing between us has run its' course now?
PLEASE. PLEASE, can you find me someone else that thinks my replies were strange? And strange in the sense that
you mean, not strange in the sense that they believe I'm overreacting. I would honestly love to talk to them, and find out why.
I've been the one painting the picture of people destroying children's fantasies? This says otherwise:
Lazario wrote:Well, I'll tell you what: I don't care enough about kids to ruin their beliefs.
I feel you've painted a picture of ME, as someone who is oblivious to the "real grown up world", and you've let that dictate every one of your posts.
Lazario wrote:To me, the fascination with things like Santa Claus other than aesthetic is for people whose lives are empty or for people who find life itself tedious and uninteresting. This could, I suppose, be a matter of upbringing.
So do you completely disregard what I said above? Do you dismiss the possibility that Santa could be some bigger idea? That it could mean more to some people?
All in all - if you don't believe in it the way others, like myself, do... then that's perfectly fine. But to dismiss others who HAVE a great experience with it and DO truly believe that it isn't something special, just because you DON'T, is selfish and belittling.
Enigmawing obviously doesn't believe in it in the passionate manner that I do - and yet she is so accepting of the fact that others
do that she's ready to do it herself!! So why do you feel so compelled, Lazario, to make me feel like an outcast because I believe that there is something good in this world?
) was always a part of our childhood Christmasses, though from around the age of nine onwards, my belief in him dwindled year by year until it was gone at the age of around twelve or eleven. On the subject of believing in Santa or not, there's nothing wrong with letting your kids believe in one fairy tale. As long as it doesn't turn into something extreme like believing that Santa is a miracle maker (ultimately promoting him into some kind of deity), then I don't see much of a problem. Equally, not letting your children believe in Santa isn't going to necessarily scar them for life. After all, the concept of Santa/Father Christmas is only a recent evolution in the celebration of Christmas. Personally, I see Santa/Father Christmas as a jolly, secular symbol of what's good about his respective holiday.
