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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:20 pm 
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singerguy04 wrote:
Mickeyfan1990 wrote:


As much as I'd LOVE that cover, it looks fan made. The dead give away for me is the fact that it's so out of focus but the DMR logo and Disney Blu-ray logo are perfect.



That cover art is real, though it a special o-sleeve slipcover on the Disney Movie Club. So it's very possible that might be it....

<a href="http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/Al724/Slipcovers/?action=view&amp;current=100_2189.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/Al724/Slipcovers/100_2189.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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disneyboy20022 wrote:
That cover art is
Hideous.

What the hell do they think this movie is- Witches of the Caribbean??

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:22 am 
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Lazario wrote:
What the hell do they think this movie is- Witches of the Caribbean??


:lol: Priceless. I wish I knew exactly how to stimulate you and get you to say more funny stuff.

I suppose I could always get mad at Jodie Foster for not speaking up in The Silence of the Lambs. *ducks*


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SWillie! wrote:
Well, I suppose I'm a sucker for any "Magic of Christmas" movies. I don't think it's strictly a fat-suit comedy. It has a WHOLE lot more to it. The family struggles, the father/son relationship, the "true meaning" of Christmas. Plus, it's pretty funny. And I definitely don't see what's wrong with the kid... I think he's great?

Certainly people my age, that more or less grew up with the film, are extremely fond of it.

I felt I remembered the movie pretty well though it's been at least a decade since I last saw it. But I decided to YouTube it yesterday afternoon and was duly horrified to find out it was MUCH WORSE than I remembered it. Oh, it begins well enough. And Tim Allen did this very funny little run-skip through a patch of snow between his car and the walkway to his house that I actually laughed at. I was all-set to say: I was wrong. Which I hate but I'm big enough to do when I feel it's warranted. Then... the dialogue began to play. And the Angels of Cinema weeped. OPENLY! I stopped the movie when "The Next Morning" scene began, I couldn't take anymore. I already had a quite substantial LIST of things wrong with the movie. Here's most of it:

  • Tim Allen's character seeks to do a biting critique of the Neil character and... can't actually make a single statement without devolving into animal noises. Why? Because he's trying to make the kids laugh. If that's the point of the movie, don't bother criticizing psychiatry! This isn't the same as making jokes about scientology.
  • The parents are BOTH uptight, lame, and have perfect lives except they can't agree. How the HELL does that equal damaging the kid who is also extremely lame and impossible to sympathize with? Divorce isn't magic! Plot device though it may be, it doesn't do all the work that screenwriting and character development are meant to.
  • Tim Allen's character is a king-sized asshole. #1: Why is the movie treating him like a hero? #2: Why does the movie glance over the BEST opportunity they had for a joke?-When the father says "take off your coat, you're sticking around- aren't you?" I'll do it for them: GEE, who could resist an offer like that coming from such a warm and loving guy? (And, no, the movie isn't trying to make the point that the Dad is a flawed person- he just IS flawed and the movie won't admit it because they don't want to let Tim Allen look bad. OOPS!)
  • Body Language Time: what the HELL is he doing sticking his finger into AN ADULT'S FACE like they're a child who did wrong?!?!?! And the Mother just lets him bulldoze right over her (he's WAY too aggressive) because in her book she's getting points for being concerned (read: liberal) and trying to be mature by saying things like "I'm going" whenever Allen criticizes Neil. This is a bad set-up for an exposition dump because no matter what argument each has, he is using his physicality to dominate her and the movie still won't admit he's crossing the line.
  • Charlie comes home from school crying over an altercation with a bully. Believable enough, these things happen. What did the bully do? Told Charlie there was no Santa Claus... (*Pause for my reaction*) (*Nope... gonna have to pause a little longer*) (*...Wait for it*) (*...WAIT for it*)

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/zsTRxXvQY0s" frameborder="0"></iframe>

    Are we actually expected to feel sorry for a kid who has had such a perfect life that his big emotional crisis is being told Santa Claus isn't real? YES. Yes, we are. This, naturally, requires an entirely NEW bullet-point check listed analytical breakdown and I don't have the time.
  • Bad acting. BAD acting.
  • Nobody in the world is stupid enough to believe the parents aren't aware that the kid is in earshot of their entire conversation. The movie on the other hand is not smart enough to make this scene realistic.
  • Gee... why are the characters going to such lengths to criticize teaching children about reality? It wouldn't have anything to do with later in life expecting Charlie to apply this logic to the belief in God, would it???!
  • Also, why can't the characters see their own hypocrisy on full-display? Be it the Mother who's trying to shield the kid from pain or the Father trying to give him a way to deal with it, they're both USING him. Though they're trying to find a way to keep his innocence in-tact, they're manipulating and manhandling him so much that they are turning him into a miniature adult ANYWAY. I'll come back to Allen in a later bullet, but for the Mother especially here: she's not proud that the kid now walks around spouting Neil's rhetoric on kids believing in Santa. If anything, she can see this is a problem but won't do anything about it because she won't admit she made a mistake. Her Plot Obligation forces her to compete with / contradict the father's view until the plot obliges her to care more about Charlie.
  • Why is Tim Allen REPEATING the joke about cats? It wasn't funny the first time.
  • Charlie is starting to act more adult than his age- blah blah blah. What a crisis, Tim Allen to the Rescue, right- blah blah blah. Now, the movie is trying to make the kid look like a kid for the purpose of emotional manipulation. He says words like "babyish" (which an adult wouldn't say, of course) and whines "do I gotta stay here?" like an abuse victim being dropped off with their pedophilic Uncle.
  • They SO did not just use the exact version of the song everyone remembers Macaulay Culkin mining in the bathroom while "shaving" in the mirror in Home Alone!!! (Yeah, they did.)
  • More offensive emotional manipulation: the kid is sitting at the table WATCHING a banquetish meal at the table on television. Disney, you are PUSHING my last button here: this kid is NOT HOMELESS, DEPRIVED, or STARVING TO DEATH!!!!
  • "Lash out irrationally" is not a psychiatric term, it's a shitty screenwriter's idea of a psychiatric term. Nor is it an accurate description of Tim Allen's behavior. Tim Allen's behavior is patronizing and childish. Not irrational. Perfectly rational. For a patrionizing and childish person. The movie's decision to use this is to again try to make Tim Allen's character look harmless and entertaining when he is in fact a dangerous person to have in care of a child who will teach him a lot of bad values. Putting a humorous face or voice on it doesn't excuse anything.
  • Is this kid the most sheltered FREAK in the universe? He used to believe in Santa and believes enough now to insist the HUGE NOISE on his roof is the clatter most people associate with Santa and/or his sleigh... and yet it never occured to him that if Santa were real, KNOWS when kids are sleeping and awake, and could visit their homes to deliver gifts, that Santa would have more tact than to give his presence away and that the noise he hears on his roof might be coming from a BAD PERSON / someone he should fear? Time to give Home Alone props: that film actually took place in a universe where kids knew about things like strangers and bad people. What the hell is wrong with this kid?
  • Okay... Rewind Time: Charlie is traumatized to the point of TEARS by a kid in school telling him there's no Santa Claus. Then he is given proof there is a Santa Claus...when his OWN FATHER KILLS HIM... and... he is ENTIRELY EMOTIONALLY UNAFFECTED.

    I want to say this again, so everyone can follow:
    Kid being told there is no Santa Claus = Tear Time
    Kid witnessing his father having killed Santa Claus = No Big Deal
  • Okay, Santa's not dead... He's just a zombie / ghost.
  • "You NEVER do what I wanna do!" Okay, shut up now, you damn little brat! Children who are legitimately emotionally scarred or deprived of opportunities do not say things like "you never do what I wanna do!" You are losing your bid for audience sympathy, twirp.
  • "The Rose Suchak Ladder Company" = shoot me now. Please. (This is also the exact moment I wanted to see that child recast in Pet Sematary. Part 2!!!)
  • Fart joke... Really? HERE?! WHY?!
  • That reindeer does not look friendly, he looks demonic. And his voice actor is the same guy who did Tokar/Razar (?spelling?) from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie(s) and Goro in Mortal Kombat the movie. And, terrifyingly enough- he has EXACTLY the same eyes as Goro.
  • Bad CGI. CGI = shitty, not magical.
  • Okay, forget who's piloting this sleigh for a second, WHY THE HELL would the reindeer allow a person on the street to see Santa's Sleigh FLYING????!!!!! Gee... how convenient for the plot that it turns out this guy didn't decide to run to the freaking papers screaming "I saw Santa's sleigh flying and REAL magical reindeer." Sure, they might not have believed him, but doesn't Allen's character get put in an insane aslyum for saying he's Santa and for this event to get news coverage later in the movie?
  • "How come everything I want to do is stupid?" Oh... My... FREAKING LORD!!! The kid only says this so the Dad will GO DOWN THE CHIMNEY. Not how this works in real life. Kids. Care. About. Being. Neglected. (When they think their parents are neglecting them.)
  • ... ... ... ... ...The Demonic Reindeer is eavesdropping on the father and son's conversation. This is creepy! This is 2001: A Space Odyssey creepy!
  • Tim Allen breaks character to make the "How do I look; nice?" joke. No logical reasoning behind that, given how much of his dialogue in this scene is about raising logical objections to what they are doing.
  • Gay joke. Real classy.
  • Tim Allen's Santa visits his 1st house and is quickly met with SHOTGUN COCKING and GUNFIRE. Um... WTF? The guy with the gun isn't even in the same room?! He's shooting at NOTHING??? I'm not going to say this is too adult for a kids' movie but there are 2 very large problems here. One is that this is not funny, this is DEAD serious. And suffers hugely from logical retardation. Another problem is the continuing theme that adults shoot first and ask questions later but kids never would. And... I'm sorry, but here's a 3rd one: we continue hearing the sleigh land on everyone's roof extremely loudly. Why? Because it gives the sound mixers something to play with. I'm SORRY but, if this is happening in a movie where any of this is meant to be grounded in reality, he cannot travel to every house and make that kind of noise on everyone's roof!! It's so loud, the people in the house NEXT DOOR will hear when Santa arrives and as a result, there's no belief in Santa and even the adults will know something is up.
  • CLOSEUPS of The Demonic Reindeer's EVIL eyes and angry mouth!! And Tim Allen is being perfectly non-aggressive and non-threatening to The Demonic Reindeer but TDM is reacting like the killer Bear in Dolls (1987). Or like The Incredible Hulk. Like- 1 more word and he's going to tear Tim Allen limb from limb... how is that not going too far??
  • I know I'm really harping on the CGI here but... c'mon! It looks like water. This is beyond unrealistic. He's being sucked into and spit out from a Holographic Water Portal. This ain't Donnie Darko!
  • The kayak house: OKAY, "SANTA," MAKE AS MUCH NOISE AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE!!! You really must want a repeat of Mr. Shotgun, don't ya??!
  • This orchestration is just sucky. I mean, Home Alone 2 was far more impressive- in my (anything but) humble opinion. And this scene is going on forever (the sleigh's descent into Santa's workshop). We know you spent a lot of money but GET TO THE POINT!
  • Why the (I'm holding back the F-word SO HARD right now, I'm about to burst) do (can I burst?)ing movies ever put in jokes about kids being hundreds of years old? You're not fooling anyone, you little bastard- you're 8 or 9. NOT 8 or 9 HUNDRED!!! Smug Children Are NOT FUNNY!
  • Is it also NOT FUNNY to watch smug teenagers pretending to be world-weary playing slave-driving bosses to smug children!
  • Okay, if Bernard knows Allen's Santa is new... why the HELL is he asking "who's causing the trouble around here" to 2 people when he's never met one of them before? Even in this movie's universe, this doesn't make sense.
  • Shut up, Tim Allen. Just... SHUT UP!
  • I said: SHUT UP!!!!!!
  • ANOTHER moment of *wink wink, I was in Home Improvement*???!!! Who do I take a contract out to have killed for this, I need to know: Allen or the screenwriter(s)?
  • He knows what a fucking (I tried as hard as I could!) CLAUSE is, you moron!!
  • Tim Allen's Bug-Out Eyes Through a Magnifying Lens = Most Obnoxious Gag in Cinema History. Just bypassed fart jokes and ANYTHING Jim Carrey did in the Ace Venturas AND Howie Mandell in Little Monsters. I think it did. Give this guy a Raspberry already!
  • Okay... what the fuck in an intelligent filmmaker's mind could POSSIBLY justify Bernard's psychotic anger and Tim Allen's inexplicable sudden retardation into lip-waggering stupidity in this scene???
  • Okay... these children are meant to be playing elves that are HUNDREDS of years old, world-weary, and cynical but... suddenly, because Tim Allen says "what if I choose not to believe?"... suddenly we get closeups of their sad faces and ONE OF THEM is on the verge of crying like a baby?
  • This:
    "You look pretty good for your age."
    "Thanks, but I'm seeing someone in Wrapping."

    If you don't find that profoundly disturbing...

Well, I can't finish that thought. In fact, I can't talk about this movie anymore. Besides being disturbing and not funny, it is a failure on every level a Hollywood film can fail. It's badly written. It's badly acted. The music is bad. The effects are bad. It's as magical as politics (an apt metaphor considering how badly it wishes it were Miracle on 34th Street) and as charming as a flesh-eating virus.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:24 am 
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I hate to be a party pooper, but I think this thread is really going off topic. I don't see this thread as being the place to start an argument about an 18 year-old Christmas movie.

Now to go back on topic: judging from the cover arts we've seen, it looks like a good majority will be re-hashes of previous designs. I know that it's ultimately no big deal, but I kinda can't help but worry that little effort elsewhere is being made on these releases...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:34 am 
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Wonderlicious wrote:
I hate to be a party pooper, but I think this thread is really going off topic. I don't see this thread as being the place to start an argument about an 18 year-old Christmas movie.
:D

Well, I don't believe in overcrowding the board with repeat threads on the same topic and the Search function is pretty much dead. And I'm not a mod. So, it's wee bit completely impossible to just move all the posts related to Santa Clause (especially since I've been told there's also no Merge function anymore) into the official Santa Clause: Discussion Thread. Wherever that may be (there's got to be one).

Just sayin'.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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I'm not even going to try a rebuttal here. Jesus man, relax. This is all I feel compelled to respond to:

Lazario wrote:
Are we actually expected to feel sorry for a kid who has had such a perfect life that his big emotional crisis is being told Santa Claus isn't real? YES. Yes, we are. This, naturally, requires an entirely NEW bullet-point check listed analytical breakdown and I don't have the time.


This IS a big emotional crisis for many children. It sure as hell was for me. I cried when I found out that Santa wasn't real, as did MANY people I know. Are you really that heartless that you can't sympathize with that?

I DO feel bad for him at this point in the film, the same way I feel bad when I hear younger kids talking about the fact that Santa isn't real, knowing that there is probably at least one of them that still believes.

Anyone who forcibly ruins that belief for anyone else is, in my opinion, scum of the earth.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:03 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
Anyone who forcibly ruins that belief for anyone else is, in my opinion, scum of the earth.


Now who needs to relax? :roll:

So how should kids find out that Santa isn't real? They're going to find out eventually, somehow, and when that day comes is the person or group who tells them automatically "scum of the earth" for reminding them of how reality works? Is it not better for kinds to find out that all this time their parents and relatives are the ones that have put in their own time and money to please them with gifts?

Kids may be upset, I get that, but it's not some life altering crisis that they can not get over, especially for a well-off middle class white kid like the one in the movie. Come Christmas Day when the presents roll in, they'll still be happy.

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Again, Flanger-Hanger, you RULE!!!

Sorry, Wonder, it was bound to happen.

SWillie! wrote:
Anyone who forcibly ruins that belief for anyone else is, in my opinion, scum of the earth.

Well, I'll tell you what: I don't care enough about kids to ruin their beliefs. But I care about filmmaking and the shit that comes out which dictates what the studios force into American culture. The Santa Clause and movies like it are very largely to blame for the Idiocracy we've been living in for a long time now. Whereas Home Alone got trashed for violence, Santa Clause is a hundred times more brainless, offensive, and pushing a very unveiled agenda. With no right whatsoever to do so. And thanks to the Christmas Magic Excuse, we ended up with An American Carol, Deck the Halls, and Christmas with the Kranks.

Using my brain doesn't mean I stopped using my heart. This film was manipulating at every turn. And for you to say I need to see this as heart-warming is like a helicopter pilot swooping in to rescue this guy:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DB78NMrLB50" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Okay, I suck at analogies but the point is that when you see something with a great big sign on it telling you what to think, it's hard to see it as natural. Why is this film not heart-warming: because it tells you you have to see it as heart-warming. It might as well be the Nazi's in The Sound of Music telling that Max guy what to do.

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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
SWillie! wrote:
Anyone who forcibly ruins that belief for anyone else is, in my opinion, scum of the earth.

Now who needs to relax? :roll:

So how should kids find out that Santa isn't real? They're going to find out eventually, somehow, and when that day comes is the person or group who tells them automatically "scum of the earth" for reminding them of how reality works? Is it not better for kinds to find out that all this time their parents and relatives are the ones that have put in their own time and money to please them with gifts?

Kids may be upset, I get that, but it's not some life altering crisis that they can not get over, especially for a well-off middle class white kid like the one in the movie. Come Christmas Day when the presents roll in, they'll still be happy.


I think kids ought to find out from their parents, or by simply growing old enough to figure it out and understand on their own. Just because another kid (oftentimes a little older) doesn't believe anymore, that doesn't mean the other kid that does needs a reality check prematurely. When it comes from another kid, it could very easily give a kid feelings of "why have my parents been lying to me?" Whereas if a parent sits their kid down to explain to them how things work and why they are done this way, there won't be those feelings against the parents.

I never said it's a life altering crisis that kids shouldn't get over. The kid in the movie gets over it, just as kids like myself do in real life. But at the time, it can be genuinely upsetting. So to act as if you just can't even believe that the kid in the movie is upset is just silly, because it DOES happen in real life.

Lazario wrote:
Well, I'll tell you what: I don't care enough about kids to ruin their beliefs.

Well, obviously this is where we differ. I feel like this sentence alone explains all of the differences and disagreements between us.


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SWillie! wrote:
I never said it's a life altering crisis that kids shouldn't get over. The kid in the movie gets over it
Um...

In the movie: Santa Claus was real.


SWillie! wrote:
Lazario wrote:
Well, I'll tell you what: I don't care enough about kids to ruin their beliefs.

Well, obviously this is where we differ. I feel like this sentence alone explains all of the differences and disagreements between us.

Okay, I'm not sure what you're trying to say about yourself- but there are 2 possibilities which spring to mind and both of them make me uncomfortable. Either you're still a kid talking about other kids feeling betrayed by their parents or you're an extraordinarily childlike adult. I'm betting on the latter.

Either way, I'm going to try to (in vain) invoke Wonderlicious here and say this is a good place to stop the conversation. I shouldn't lecture a child. And the same goes for a child at heart. Though I still stand by every single thing I said about that awful movie.

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Lazario wrote:
SWillie! wrote:
I never said it's a life altering crisis that kids shouldn't get over. The kid in the movie gets over it
Um...

In the movie: Santa Claus was real.


SWillie! wrote:
Lazario wrote:
Well, I'll tell you what: I don't care enough about kids to ruin their beliefs.

Well, obviously this is where we differ. I feel like this sentence alone explains all of the differences and disagreements between us.

Okay, I'm not sure what you're trying to say about yourself- but there are 2 possibilities which spring to mind and both of them make me uncomfortable. Either you're still a kid talking about other kids feeling betrayed by their parents or you're an extraordinarily childlike adult. I'm betting on the latter.

Either way, I'm going to try to (in vain) invoke Wonderlicious here and say this is a good place to stop the conversation. I shouldn't lecture a child. And the same goes for a child at heart. Though I still stand by every single thing I said about that awful movie.


I'm a 22 year old guy. I wouldn't consider myself "extraordinarily childlike", to the point of it being a problem like you seem to be inferring. But I certainly would say I'm still in touch with my "inner child". You make it sound like that's something to be ashamed of?

All I was trying to say with that comment was that I'm obviously much more all about the "magic and wonder" of life and you're much more of a realist. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, but just that it seems to explain the fact that we strongly disagree on pretty much everything ever discussed on this site.


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SWillie! wrote:
we strongly disagree on pretty much everything ever discussed on this site.

That doesn't interest me, whether there's any truth to it or not.

The fact that you're 22 and seem to have enough material to write an essay should you ever choose to on this subject is telling though (and like a kid sitting on the lap of a chatty, drunken Santa, there's a lot I didn't need to hear):

SWillie! wrote:
This IS a big emotional crisis for many children. It sure as hell was for me. I cried when I found out that Santa wasn't real, as did MANY people I know. Are you really that heartless that you can't sympathize with that?

I DO feel bad for him at this point in the film, the same way I feel bad when I hear younger kids talking about the fact that Santa isn't real, knowing that there is probably at least one of them that still believes.

Anyone who forcibly ruins that belief for anyone else is, in my opinion, scum of the earth.
SWillie! wrote:
I think kids ought to find out from their parents, or by simply growing old enough to figure it out and understand on their own. Just because another kid (oftentimes a little older) doesn't believe anymore, that doesn't mean the other kid that does needs a reality check prematurely. When it comes from another kid, it could very easily give a kid feelings of "why have my parents been lying to me?" Whereas if a parent sits their kid down to explain to them how things work and why they are done this way, there won't be those feelings against the parents.

I never said it's a life altering crisis that kids shouldn't get over. The kid in the movie gets over it, just as kids like myself do in real life. But at the time, it can be genuinely upsetting. So to act as if you just can't even believe that the kid in the movie is upset is just silly, because it DOES happen in real life.

What would you think if I said the world isn't comfortable either with you talking at length about children's emotions? Think about it this way: how would you know and how would it make other adults or children comfortable seeing that you profess to think so deeply into children's psyches? (Please take a moment and think about what you're really saying here.)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:33 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
I cried when I found out that Santa wasn't real, as did MANY people I know


Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you found out?

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Lazario wrote:
What would you think if I said the world isn't comfortable either with you talking at length about children's emotions? Think about it this way: how would you know and how would it make other adults or children comfortable seeing that you profess to think so deeply into children's psyches? (Please take a moment and think about what you're really saying here.)

Can you just come out and say what you're trying to say? Because I really don't know. If you're trying to accuse me of something, then do it.

"The world" isn't comfortable with me talking about children's emotions? Can someone else confirm this, please? Because my whole life revolves around children, and the other adults in my life are constantly discussing the actions of those children, whether good or bad, emotional of what have you. No one has ever seemed to be "uncomfortable" with that. Myself working at Disney World, and my girlfriend working as a preschool teacher... I'm around kids all the time, and those I work with feel as strongly as I do that being in touch with your inner child is possibly the most important ingredient to truly enjoying life. Most adults who "grow up" lose sight of such things.

One of my favorite quotes is by C.S. Lewis -
“Critics who treat “adult” as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adults themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence….When I was ten, I read fairytales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”"

And yet here you are, saying you're uncomfortable with the mere thought that I am "childish". Do you honestly consider that mature?

You ask how I would know about children's emotions. All I can say to that is that one, I was a child not all that long ago, and remember things like discovering the truth about Santa... I literally remember what that felt like to me. And two, what I mentioned above - I'm surrounded by children all the time, and so I feel I have a fairly good understanding of what is upsetting, exciting, etc... to them.

However, I don't try to pretend that I know anything profound about "children's psyches". I'm discussing what is on the surface - the fact that discovering the truth about something that has been as big a part of their lives as Santa can be upsetting to a child, and should not be simply dismissed.

The fact is that there are plenty of people that are completely comfortable discussing something like this, and agree with all these ideas wholeheartedly. Especially the idea that true "childishness" is the fear of childishness itself, as in the Lewis quote.

Yet you're making me out to sound like a some sort of creep or something, who is out of line for even thinking about such things. I'd love to hear if anyone else feels the same.

Sotiris wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how old were you when you found out?

I don't remember precisely age wise, but I know it was right around third grade. So like 7 or 8. The movie "Tooth Fairy" made me start questioning things, and I asked my parents about it. They explained it all to me, and I was crushed. But now I was part of the secret, and I continued to grow up and see the faces my little brother and sister would make at the mention of Santa, and I understood the "magic" of it all. I can't wait to have kids so I can continue to be a part of that.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:10 pm 
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You know, I actually told you I didn't really want to discuss this further. I never said anything along the lines that you are a creep- I said spend 2 seconds thinking how a rational person would view what you are saying given your age and especially your view on, for example, something like Disney's The Santa Clause. I don't give a damn that apparently you spend your time in the company of people in caregiving professions talking about children. You will note that I wanted to talk about The Santa Clause and the points that I actually expressed about children believing in Santa were all in relation to how the movie handled it. You're the one who decided to take it out into real life and argue I was heartless. I think that's a stupid, shameful, and entirely pointless and irrelevant thing for anyone to do when they're arguing with someone else about a movie (and if you will remember, I didn't take kindly to you and Goliath doing it when we were talking about Snow White either)- so I humored you and continued discussing this topic in a real life context. But did at one point say: this is a good place to stop. So, don't go all "how could you call me a creep?" I didn't. But I do believe your passion for this subject seems a bit troubling. And, as I just said in my last post, I don't need to know everything that goes on in your head.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:18 pm 
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By saying that the idea that the child is upset by the bully telling him about Santa is not believable, you brought the discussion into real life. You thought it not believable, and yet it should be because it actually happens in real life.

I'm sorry if I took it further than the boundaries of the film, but anyone that implies that my passion of letting children believe in magic is somehow "wrong" or "troubling" is a personal attack, and is, in my opinion, very immature.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:36 pm 
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So we can get this thread back on track . . . Did You Ever Believe in Santa? ;)

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SWillie! wrote:
By saying that the idea that the child is upset by the bully telling him about Santa is not believable, you brought the discussion into real life.

No, that was your justification for calling me heartless. What I said was that a movie's decision to expect us to sympathize with a child whose biggest problem is learning that Santa isn't real is not mature- it's stupid.


SWillie! wrote:
You thought it not believable, and yet it should be because it actually happens in real life.

Yeah, and you chose to make a very big deal out of it. Which is damn ridiculous because I know children who were beaten by their parents (I was one of them, thank you very much), and dealt with things like life-threatening diseases (two cousins of mine DIED from one), gang violence (another one of my cousins who was shot to death), suicide, parental drug abuse, rape and sexual abuse, ETC. It's sad that kids have to cry and be disappointed in life. But it's a learning experience and at worst, it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be. It never has been and it never will be. And you can argue otherwise all you want to, but you are wrong. And the fact that you keep harping so much on this insane point of yours forces me to question how much in life you've actually experienced.

Is this what you wanted? Because that is what you get when you call me heartless.


SWillie! wrote:
I'm sorry if I took it further than the boundaries of the film, but anyone that implies that my passion of letting children believe in magic is somehow "wrong" or "troubling" is a personal attack, and is, in my opinion, very immature.

Will you get with the program for 2 seconds? I'm not the only one who thinks your replies have been strange to say the least but NOBODY said a damn thing about your trip on children believing in magic. Nobody else cares. In fact, you've been the one painting this absurd picture of people with an obsession for destroying children's fantasies. And you spearheaded the discussion here because I said there are bigger problems in the world. You actually want to tell me I'm wrong about that or can we both agree that this thing between us has run its' course now?

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