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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:48 pm 
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I'll be as pleased as punch if this actually IS being completely hand-drawn once again.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:56 am 
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Steve Hulett wrote:
Bleeding Cool quotes Diz Co.'s Animation Research Library:

"Ron [Clements] and John [Musker] are currently working to develop the next hand-drawn feature at Disney Animation. (Sorry, we can’t tell you what that is.)"

Hand-drawn? The way Princess and the Frog is hand-drawn?

Uuuhhhhhh....


Floyd Norman wrote:
What I've seen so far is pretty darn impressive.


Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... drawn.html

It's quite obvious from this post that Steve knows that the movie is not going to be conventional hand-drawn but a 2D/CG hybrid in the style of "Paperman".

Anonymous wrote:
I know of a very reliable source who mentioned that he had asked John Musker directly about it at a recent lunch and Musker said their film currently in development has NOT yet been greenlit and is not necessarily hand-drawn animation as people are accustomed to using that term , it will perhaps be a sort of 2D/CG hybrid, but not necessarily hand-drawn in the traditional sense.


Source: http://thedisneyblog.com/2012/04/25/dis ... ment-75684

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Last edited by Sotiris on Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:53 am 
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Well, let's just wait and see.

And try not to hold our breath.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:14 am 
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Even more proof that that movie is not going to be hand-drawn but a hybrid in the style of "Paperman".

Steve Hulett wrote:
Last week I had a lengthy sit-down with director/animator/writer Ron Clements.

He laments that hand-drawn animation is in decline, since he really loves the art form. He says that he and Mr. Musker are working on a new project with hand-drawn animation in it. When it gets made, he doesn't know, since he reveals it's in early development.


Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... wn_28.html

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:22 am 
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Well, at least hopefully we know that it's not going to be entirely CG and that hand-drawn animation isn't dead yet...




.... Right? :(

And Paperman, unless I'm wrong, literally looks hand-drawn but is CG. Keep in mind that I never saw it, but I'm hoping that's what is meant about it being a hand-drawn/CG hybrid.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:21 am 
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DisneyJedi wrote:
And Paperman, unless I'm wrong, literally looks hand-drawn but is CG. Keep in mind that I never saw it, but I'm hoping that's what is meant about it being a hand-drawn/CG hybrid.


It looks hand drawn but feels CG, if that makes sense.

Great news. Everyone cross their fingers for me - my greatest life goal at the moment is to graduate school a year from right now, be accepted into the graduate trainee program, and get a chance to work on this film, seeing as how if it's still in early development we're talking at least 2-4 years before this thing would be released. I would give anything to work on this.

I can dream, can't I?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:12 am 
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SWillie! wrote:
DisneyJedi wrote:
And Paperman, unless I'm wrong, literally looks hand-drawn but is CG. Keep in mind that I never saw it, but I'm hoping that's what is meant about it being a hand-drawn/CG hybrid.


It looks hand drawn but feels CG, if that makes sense.

Great news. Everyone cross their fingers for me - my greatest life goal at the moment is to graduate school a year from right now, be accepted into the graduate trainee program, and get a chance to work on this film, seeing as how if it's still in early development we're talking at least 2-4 years before this thing would be released. I would give anything to work on this.

I can dream, can't I?


I'm jealous, good luck!! It feels CG but what is it? Is it done on a computer, is it drawn to a tablet etc? Do you need to know how to draw to make it?


Last edited by Lnds500 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:45 am 
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SWillie! wrote:
Great news. Everyone cross their fingers for me - my greatest life goal at the moment is to graduate school a year from right now, be accepted into the graduate trainee program, and get a chance to work on this film, seeing as how if it's still in early development we're talking at least 2-4 years before this thing would be released. I would give anything to work on this.


Hope your dream comes true, SWillie! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:00 am 
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Lnds500 wrote:
SWillie! wrote:
DisneyJedi wrote:
And Paperman, unless I'm wrong, literally looks hand-drawn but is CG. Keep in mind that I never saw it, but I'm hoping that's what is meant about it being a hand-drawn/CG hybrid.


It looks hand drawn but feels CG, if that makes sense.

Great news. Everyone cross their fingers for me - my greatest life goal at the moment is to graduate school a year from right now, be accepted into the graduate trainee program, and get a chance to work on this film, seeing as how if it's still in early development we're talking at least 2-4 years before this thing would be released. I would give anything to work on this.

I can dream, can't I?


I'm jealous, good luck!! It feels CG but what is it? Is it done on a computer, is it drawn to a tablet etc? Do you need to know how to draw to make it?


if you haven't already, be sure to check out my pretty in-depth review of Paperman in the Paperman thread.

To give you the short and sweet, it is both. CG animators are working with traditional animators and combining their powers. They said what they would like to do is eventually have a team of super-animators that can do both.

And thank you guys!


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Steve Hulett: Where do you think hand-drawn animation is going to go from here? In terms of the mainstream, Disney-style, hand-drawn animated features, do you think we’ll ever see that look again?

Ron Clements: I hope so. I love hand-drawn animation, I always have. I love CG animation. It was always my hope that there could be room for both kinds of animation. Just like there is puppet animation...

The future is a little hard to predict. At Disney, hand-drawn is not gone; it’s something we’re still looking at very strongly. On The Princess and the Frog we were trying to recapture something. I think right now at Disney we’re looking at trying to reinvent it in some way; to bring something new to it that you haven’t seen before. Maybe that’s the thing that needs to happen to awaken people to what’s so great about it. If you love hand-drawn animation, you know that there’re certain things about it that’s unique and can’t be achieved any other way. So, I think there is a place at Disney for hand-drawn animation in the future and that it will continue in some way – and we’re still looking at what that may be – but there is excitement about that. There’re tests being done right now that are pretty exciting.

I also wouldn’t be surprised, somewhere along the line, if someone, somewhere, does something that’s stunning that nobody expects and nobody’s looking at that wakes everybody up. It’s happened before, it’s happened with different things; things go through cycles and they go through phases. I’ve always thought that if something is really good it has a place. There’s something to me that’s magical about that process. In terms of aesthetics, it becomes harder to say whether there is a sort of film that has to be hand-drawn. But there can be different things and everything shouldn’t be the same and I know there’re a lot of people that feel that way. Regardless of what happens, I think [hand-drawn animation] is going to find its way back.


Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... t-iii.html

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:47 pm 
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I hope your dream comes true too, [b]Swillie[/n]. I'll even say a prayer for ya. But...you want to work on this without even knowing what it is? Or you do know, you just can't say because it isn't official yet? ; ) I am also surprised you want it to be the new animation technique. I would think you would want your first time working on a feature to be all hand-drawn, for many reasons, one of them being to get to do that classic animation. Do you care about the future of hand-drawn staying at Disney, and not just CGI or this CGI hybrid?

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I hope your dream comes true too, [b]Swillie[/n]. I'll even say a prayer for ya. But...you want to work on this without even knowing what it is? Or you do know, you just can't say because it isn't official yet? ; ) I am also surprised you want it to be the new animation technique. I would think you would want your first time working on a feature to be all hand-drawn, for many reasons, one of them being to get to do that classic animation. Do you care about the future of hand-drawn staying at Disney, and not just CGI or this CGI hybrid?


I don't know what the film is. All I know is that seeing Paperman changed the entire way I look at animation, and I would give up the chance to work on ANYTHING else. I don't care what the story is - I'm sure it'll be good, given Ron and John's track record, but it's the technique that is so exciting.

Sure, I'd love to do some "traditional" animation for Disney at some point, and I'd even like to do some plain old cg. But I'd take this over either of them. Like I said in the Paperman thread, it has beaten hand-drawn animation at it's own game. As someone who has always loved hand-drawn animation, I would be perfectly fine if Disney said "we will definitely not be doing any straight traditional animation anymore. We will be focusing on this new technique." I would be all for it. I'm sure at some point Disney will do some more traditional. But right now, this is the most exciting thing that has happened in the world of animation since god knows when.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:12 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
Like I said in the Paperman thread, it has beaten hand-drawn animation at it's own game.

Well, that's really just in your and some other people's opinions.

SWillie! wrote:
As someone who has always loved hand-drawn animation, I would be perfectly fine if Disney said "we will definitely not be doing any straight traditional animation anymore. We will be focusing on this new technique." I would be all for it. I'm sure at some point Disney will do some more traditional. But right now, this is the most exciting thing that has happened in the world of animation since god knows when.

You jump on anything new and don't consider the consequences of losing things very much. This is a trait of yours. I don't mean to be mean, I mean to help you realize this. You really don't see any problem with the company that founded itself on the best hand-drawn animation and first hand-drawn animated feature (hand-drawn as in not Prince Achmed silhouettes) deciding to never do hand-drawn animation as it was then ever again. You don't...care about Disney's hand-drawn legacy.

This new technique, it sounds, doesn't even require much actual hand-drawing. The computer fills in a lot.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 12:19 am 
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It's nice to hear that Disney hasn't given up completely on hand-drawn animation, from what I'm reading.

If that IS the case...


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:04 am 
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Duster, how dare you. Seriously. For you to accuse me of "not caring" is incredibly short-sighted and selfish.

First, you haven't seen Paperman, and so you have no idea what it's like. It isn't only my opinion that hand-drawn has been beaten at it's own game - it's literally almost every single person that has seen it. Here you are again, judging something before you have any basis to judge anything on - just like you always do. You haven't seen it - how can you possibly know that you won't enjoy it more than Cinderella, Duster? How can you possibly know that? You can't. It's actually impossible for you to know that at this point.

Second, you also have no idea how much I've wanted Disney to continue hand-drawn animation, and so you also can't possibly accuse me that I "don't care" about Disney's legacy in the medium. It's what made me love the medium - it's what made me love Disney. It's why I do what I do every single day of my life.

When they announced they would be cutting off traditional animation, I was depressed with everyone else. I hated Chicken Little and the rest solely based on the fact they had taken away my chance to pursue my dream. I had just started college, and had decided to pursue hand-drawn throughout college against my professor's suggestions and better judgements. I hoped beyond belief that it would be worth it someday. When they announced Princess and the Frog, I rejoiced like everyone else - and told my professors "See? I knew they'd come to their senses."

I continued hand-drawn animation for another year, and then Tangled proved to me that CG can exist peacefully alongside traditional animation - and that at moments it can even be as amazing. After visiting Walt Disney Animation Studios for the first time not long after Tangled came out, and seeing the amazing stuff they were working on, I decided to also tackle the challenge of learning CG animation. For the past year I have been doing both, and loving both. However, CG was still a little reluctant, because I knew that if I was ever given the choice to work on one or the other professionally, I would no doubt choose hand-drawn, just because it has had so much more of an affect on me personally. There is a legacy there that hasn't yet been translated into CG.

When visiting WDAS again this year, I was told by recruiters and animators that if I come out of school being able to do BOTH hand-drawn and CG animation, I will be indispensable - especially with this new stuff they're working on. They showed us Paperman, and as you well know by now, my perspective on everything changed. As I was watching it, all I was thinking was "this is what I want to do with my life." It's so incredibly innovative, creative and beautiful all at the same time. It's creating something new. It's inspiring to me in the same way that the Beast's Transformation is, or the opening scenes of Snow White, or the Circle of Life scene, or yes, Cinderella's dress scene. It gives me that feeling of "a group of talented, inspired, creative people have created something amazing. Something magical. Something that will last long after they are gone." That is inspiring to an artist in a way that many can't possibly imagine.

Seeing Paperman, and knowing that I will soon be coming out of school with an education based on hand-drawn animation and developing CG skills, I knew that they would be taking this technique further - because it's the most exciting thing to happen to animation in years. The mere idea that I'm coming out of school during such an exciting and innovative time at the studio makes me more excited to do what I do than I have ever been.

Regarding your comment that it doesn't require much actual drawing: it doesn't require as much drawing, quantity-wise - but the reason why hand-drawn animators are so excited about it is because it allows the artist to really focus on making beautiful drawings, that won't lose life through the clean-up process. You have to be just as talented and creative - and you get to see that in the final product.

I know for a fact that you will come back at me with some bullshit response and pick apart my logic and find ways to debunk it in your own mind, as you always do. I don't care. What myself and everyone else on this forum knows is that your hero, Walt Disney, strived for innovation, creativity, good storytelling, and timelessness. When something new and exciting was knocking, he was the first to jump at it and at least give it a try.

The technique introduced in Paperman is innovative, creative, and has a great, timeless story. There is even MAGIC involved, Duster! It is pushing the envelope of what animation can be, and at the same time is still rooted in Disney's amazing legacy that has been founded on hand-drawn animation - my favorite medium in the entire world. It pays tribute to that legacy, and it adds to it. Walt Disney would likely be as excited as everyone else is.

Do I jump headfirst into new ideas and new technology? Absolutely. I don't need you to help me realize that I do. It is indeed a trait of mine, and I wear it proudly. It's a conscious decision to do so. But never have I once given any indication that I care nothing about the consequences of losing the things of the past. In the digital media debates, I stressed that I hope studios continue making physical collectors editions for those who are interested, as there is undeniably something great about owning something tangible. In this situation, I said in my previous post, which you quoted, that I know Disney will continue to do traditional animation, and that I hope they do. But I'm talking about the here and now. Right now, something new is happening, and it needs to be given the right amount of attention to grow. After it has made it's mark and has been experimented with, then it would be a great time to go back and do something traditional.

Do I hope that Disney continues to create traditionally animated films? Of course! I would love to be a part of one someday. It has been my dream ever since I connected drawing to movies when I was 5, and continues to be my dream. I of course do not want it to go away forever - and I'm absolutely positive that it won't, because there will always be artists that want to create it. Hell, I would love to see Disney go and do a REALLY traditionally animated film - clean-up, cels, ink and paint, the whole deal. That would be another dream come true.

But at this moment, something exciting is happening within the animation industry, and as someone who is inspired by and strives for innovation, creativity, great emotional storytelling, and timelessness in my work - I want to be a part of it.

So for you to tell me that I don't care about Disney's legacy is rude, arrogant, and insulting. I plan to be one of the many artists who live by that legacy everyday, paying homage to it and pushing it forward into places that it has never been, and stories that will be remembered long after I'm gone.

You need to pull yourself out of 1950 and realize that amazing things are happening in the world today, Duster, and you are missing out on them because of your preconceived notions as to what is "good" for Disney.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:09 am 
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Ron Clements wrote:
The future is a little hard to predict. At Disney, hand-drawn is not gone; it’s something we’re still looking at very strongly. On The Princess and the Frog we were trying to recapture something. I think right now at Disney we’re looking at trying to reinvent it in some way; to bring something new to it that you haven’t seen before.


It interested me reading this bit as I always viewed The Princess and the Frog as the rebirth of hand-drawn animation but Ron is right, it was more of an attempt to recapture something than anything else so that has changed the way I see the film but I still think it was excellent. It's good to know that there does appear to be a future for hand-drawn animation at Disney with this new method and that Ron and John are at the forefront of it. There's been so much doom and gloom and speculation surrounding hand-drawn animation that it's nice to get some reassurance that it will not only be sticking around but used in a new and very exciting way.

SWillie! wrote:
All I know is that seeing Paperman changed the entire way I look at animation, and I would give up the chance to work on ANYTHING else. I don't care what the story is - I'm sure it'll be good, given Ron and John's track record, but it's the technique that is so exciting.


I really can't wait to see Paperman, the buzz and excitement it's generating is really amazing.

Disney Duster wrote:
Well, that's really just in your and some other people's opinions.


Yeah, just the opinion of professional animators who are experts in their craft and have actually seen the short. What do they know... :roll:

SWillie!, :clap: for your last post, it really was one of the most brilliant and passionate responses I've seen since I've joined the forum and I think you were 100% spot-on about absolutely everything you spoke about. I've become more and more excited about Paperman because of the enthusiasm and positivity with which you've spoken about it on the forum and I'm sure I'm not the only member who would say that. I really hope you achieve your dream of working at WDAS and I'm sure the animation industry would benefit from your passion and willingness to embrace each new innovation that comes along.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:05 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Quote:
Steve Hulett: Where do you think hand-drawn animation is going to go from here? In terms of the mainstream, Disney-style, hand-drawn animated features, do you think we’ll ever see that look again?

Ron Clements: I hope so. I love hand-drawn animation, I always have. I love CG animation. It was always my hope that there could be room for both kinds of animation. Just like there is puppet animation...

The future is a little hard to predict. At Disney, hand-drawn is not gone; it’s something we’re still looking at very strongly. On The Princess and the Frog we were trying to recapture something. I think right now at Disney we’re looking at trying to reinvent it in some way; to bring something new to it that you haven’t seen before. Maybe that’s the thing that needs to happen to awaken people to what’s so great about it. If you love hand-drawn animation, you know that there’re certain things about it that’s unique and can’t be achieved any other way. So, I think there is a place at Disney for hand-drawn animation in the future and that it will continue in some way – and we’re still looking at what that may be – but there is excitement about that. There’re tests being done right now that are pretty exciting.

I also wouldn’t be surprised, somewhere along the line, if someone, somewhere, does something that’s stunning that nobody expects and nobody’s looking at that wakes everybody up. It’s happened before, it’s happened with different things; things go through cycles and they go through phases. I’ve always thought that if something is really good it has a place. There’s something to me that’s magical about that process. In terms of aesthetics, it becomes harder to say whether there is a sort of film that has to be hand-drawn. But there can be different things and everything shouldn’t be the same and I know there’re a lot of people that feel that way. Regardless of what happens, I think [hand-drawn animation] is going to find its way back.


Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... t-iii.html
Wow! What Ron Clemenst says makes me feel better already. Now I except CGI Movies, for now. I know we might not get hand drawn for awhile, but as long as Disney never gives up hand drawn, then all I have to says is....Thank you Mr. Clements. :thumb:


Last edited by TsWade2 on Mon May 07, 2012 9:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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SWillie!, I just wanted to second what DisneyAnimation88 said about your last post. It was one of the very best posts I have ever seen on this forum in the 7 years I've been here. Your passion for animation is inspiring, and I heartily wish you good luck in all your future endeavours. Disney will indeed be lucky to have you.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:36 am 
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DisneyAnimation88 wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
Well, that's really just in your and some other people's opinions.


Yeah, just the opinion of professional animators who are experts in their craft and have actually seen the short. What do they know... :roll:

Swillie is the only one who said it beat hand-drawn at its own game.

Obviously, that was a really great post you made Swillie. Everything.

But that doesn't mean you didn't get me wrong, or that I actually got you wrong. You can't say that what I said was rude and selfish if I was only basing it on something you said but that you explained later to sound the exact opposite.


In your encouraging, inspiring, great post, you said "In this situation, I said in my previous post, which you quoted, that I know Disney will continue to do traditional animation, and that I hope they do."

But that is not what you said, my man! What you actually said was "As someone who has always loved hand-drawn animation, I would be perfectly fine if Disney said "we will definitely not be doing any straight traditional animation anymore. We will be focusing on this new technique." I would be all for it."

And then you said "I'm sure at some point Disney will do some more traditional."

Like it was an after thought. You sounded like you were saying before that you did not care if Disney said they would stop doing hand-drawn, and then you said, but I think they will in the future anyway. That's what it actually sounded like you were saying.

I'm really glad though that all through college you had faith in your dreams that hand-drawn would stay and you could do that in your career. How very Disney of you, even Cinderella in particular. Regardless of being similar to Disney characters, for anyone in real life that's just plain brave, heroic, admirable, incredible, and inspiring.


Swilli wrote:
I would no doubt choose hand-drawn, just because it has had so much more of an affect on me personally. There is a legacy there that hasn't yet been translated into CG.

I hope you also like hand-drawn because of what it can do that CGI can't. And by that I mean what those lines can do, what the hand can do, what rela paper and paint can do. The look, the feel, that CGI can't have, and yes, can never beat hand-drawn at! :wink:

Swillie wrote:
Regarding your comment that it doesn't require much actual drawing: it doesn't require as much drawing, quantity-wise - but the reason why hand-drawn animators are so excited about it is because it allows the artist to really focus on making beautiful drawings, that won't lose life through the clean-up process. You have to be just as talented and creative - and you get to see that in the final product.

What I'm really, really worried about is the computer just figuring out how to inbetween one drawing to the other. It's like doing the work of a human mind. It's so inhuman but doing a human's work...it's not just unethicla and un-Disney to me but just plain creepy. If you keep going that way, you could eventually get to the computers doing almost all the work. No that's not happening now, but this is what I mean about considering the consequences. Out of pure ethics, and to get the authentic human touch Disney's animation has always been known for, the human hand/mind should do every drawing.

Swillie wrote:
Hell, I would love to see Disney go and do a REALLY traditionally animated film - clean-up, cels, ink and paint, the whole deal. That would be another dream come true.

Yea!!!! Yay!!!!!!!

Swillie wrote:
You need to pull yourself out of 1950 and realize that amazing things are happening in the world today, Duster, and you are missing out on them because of your preconceived notions as to what is "good" for Disney.

Hopefully by now you can see that's not what I've been doing at all. : ) I am actually all for (some aspects of) this new animation, in addition to keeping pure hand-drawn alive.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:46 am 
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Well, I'm glad I was able to explain myself better - that is what I meant when I said that in the first place, but I definitely get where you could read it as an afterthought.

Glad to see that we can pretty much agree here, though - I think this might be the first time I've ever seen that happen :lol: I understand your worries about computers taking over the job of the artists. It is a very real threat - but we talk about this all the time at school: computers, no matter how advanced they become, will still always remain a tool. They will get better at certain things, and they will eliminate humans having to do certain things. But at the end of the day, the computer will be used as a tool to tell a story that the human mind has come up with. No matter how smart they get, they will never be as creative as us. So I don't think we have to worry TOO much. It is something to be aware of though.

Just to clarify one thing, though - I'm not the only one who said it has beaten hand-drawn at it's own game. I actually stole that quote from someone else - an anonymous poster from the TAG Blog. Sotiris quoted them here - http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29514&highlight=paperman - it's Anonymous #3 on March 22. So there's that guy, and then also people at Inspire Days seemed to be throwing that phrase around as well.

And thanks for the words of encouragement you guys :)


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