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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:28 pm 
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I am very glad we agree too! But I don't think it's the only only time it's happened lol.

What is Inspire Days?

And...do people really not have a problem with the computer doing the in-betweening? That's still scarily smart and removing an authentic part of authentic hand-animation. Isn't anyone complaining about it, discussing it, even trying to stop it?

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 5:07 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
And...do people really not have a problem with the computer doing the in-betweening?


Not to fuel the fire or anything, but I actually did make an animated short using this technique. Basically, I made a model of the character, which I can manipulate into different poses. Using this, I made the key poses. The computer then filled in the blanks, resulting in fluid movement.
This was just an experiment on my part, but I was pretty happy with the result. If I can do this without any training or specific skills, a more accomplished animator should be able to create anything.
The short can be viewed here. The program I used was Anime Studio Pro.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:31 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
What is Inspire Days?

And...do people really not have a problem with the computer doing the in-betweening?


Considering how in-betweening is supposedly such a tedious job, I doubt it. :p

As for Inspire Days, I was under the impression that they are special open days for animation students, where they get to see what goes on at the studio.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:54 am 
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Wonderlicious wrote:
Considering how in-betweening is supposedly such a tedious job, I doubt it. :p


Since the computer is able to simulate how an object or character moves between each keyframe, I'm not sure it the audience should be able to notice.
Maybe they could do a little test, where the drawings between the keyframes in just a minute long animated short is first made by hand, and then by a computer, to see if there is any difference.

If there is no difference to be noticed, it's only natural that the studio will choose what is fastest and cheapest. I think it was said that the animators just had to draw every tenth drawing or something on average. But creating CGI characters in a CGI world requires more and effort than just drawing one. If they also do the rough animation first, with rough characters, before the animatiors polish it and add some details, I'm not sure. If it actually is faster than making a hand drawn movie in the more traditional way, then the old style will become even more rare. Since it feels like CGI but looks like its drawn by hand, I suppose it doesn't feel like more traditional animation. Something new has been added, but has something also been lost? It's hard to say before some footage is released.

This technology could perhaps also be of good use if the theatres decides to go for 48 fps. A compuer should be able to double the frame rate between two keyframes.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Wondy is correct - Inspire Days is an event that the studio holds once a year when they invite animation students to come see the studio and have their work reviewed. We get a tour and screenings and keynote type talks, etc. It's been a fantastic event for the past two years.

As for the in-betweening process - I think people don't see it as much of an issue because it is such a tedious thing. Most animators hate doing it, because there is little to no creativity involved, and that's why the job is given to the youngest, most inexperienced animators. It's literally just looking at each line in drawings 1 and 3, and making a line in-between the two. It's very dry work. So, I think if the computer can allow the artists that would be taking time to do that to do more creative aspects, I'm sure most animators like it.

And like I said, they do have to go in and tweak many of the drawings done by the computer to get them exactly how they want them. It's still just a tool.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:28 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
And like I said, they do have to go in and tweak many of the drawings done by the computer to get them exactly how they want them. It's still just a tool.


That seems like a challenge, trying to correct what the computer is unable to do, or does not do as well as the artists. Sounds that what's left of the in-betweening actually do involve some creativity in this new process.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:39 pm 
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But in-betweening was a way of building people up. And you did have to learn that way. It was a step toward full animator and a right of passage.

I'm guite baffled that no one's considering what the computer doing the in-betweening means for human creativity.

Will a line be drawn? Or will computers someday replace animators after animators just come up with, say, a designed model?

Ethics? Reality and humans before machines? Only humans creating human life, even to the tiniest aspects? Consequences? What anything means? What are those things??? Who cares!

When you start with a computer doing one thing for you...it's a start. Of it doing more later.

Nandor, what a cute cartoon! But I must say...it does look very...computer-done. Not like usual hand-drawn animation. And, sadly I must say, actual hand-drawn animation does look more real and better.

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
If there is no difference to be noticed, it's only natural that the studio will choose what is fastest and cheapest.

Exactly. Computers replacing people in creativity and jobs.

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Last edited by Disney Duster on Sun May 06, 2012 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Well I certainly see what you're saying and I get what you mean, but at the end of the day... as unfortunate as it may be, that's the world we live in. Computers are a huge part of our lives, and so we need to be aware of the issues you mentioned and put that much more of our own creativity into the things we create using computers.

And I think we're actually going in the right direction in recent years - I mean, picture Luxo Jr. and some of the older Pixar stuff. Most of it feels like a computer made it. It's plainly obvious. But then look at Brave - the fact that it was made on a computer is not nearly as obvious or distracting. Even comparing Chicken Little to Tangled - the former feels so much more "computery". So I think artists are definitely aware of these issues and are working to create ways of making the films feel more organic.

Also, regarding your comment about in-betweening being a stepping stone and right of passage - until only recently in the industry, students didn't learn nearly as much in school as they do now - they did most of their learning on the job (often as an in-bewteener, like you said). But today, students come out of school having made full short films. So it's almost as if the "training" has simply been pushed back into school instead of being learned on the job.


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Oh. Well. I hope you're right. But I still se Disney using computers, even for something as small as inbetweening, to be a way of the corporate, marketing, and money loving heads of Disney to cut on creativity, humanity, work, costs, and Disney magic, and that the artists are just choosing not to fight against it. : (

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Well, I'm sure corporate decisions are a big factor, but I don't think the artists are just "not fighting back". I honestly think the artists are doing the best job they possibly can to give the audience the best film they can - artistically, technically, creatively, innovatively, etc... and at the end of the day I think that's what matters.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:22 am 
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Kahrs and Disney are definitely experimenting further with this potentially ground-breaking approach that empowers animators. Kahrs even hinted that it might find its way into a feature, which would mean the next iteration for hand-drawn.


Source: http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononho ... ugh?page=2


Quote:
Q: Will the success of this hybrid technique on Paperman lead to an expansion of its use on other projects at Disney?

Kristina Reed: Definitely. John has already been asked to explore other environments where this technique can be applied, other looks this can stretch into.

Q: John, what’s next for you? Will you be traveling the festival circuit in support of the film’s release?

John Kahrs: I’m doing three things. One is animating on Wreck-it Ralph. I’m also supposed to pursue more with this hybrid technique. That will probably happen in the fall. The third thing is I’m doing the festival circuit with Paperman.


Source: http://www.awn.com/articles/short-films ... page/2%2C1


Quote:
Q: Are you developing any other shorts or maybe planning a feature in this style?

John Kahrs: Every time I show the film, the lights come up, and the first question is “Are you working on a feature that looks like this?” I think we are going to move toward that direction – but we’re not quite there yet. I’ve been asked by John and Ed (Catmull) to pursue the technique. Take it to the next level. And I’ll let you guess what the next level is.


Source: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/a-lit ... erman.html


Quote:
Q: And what about doing a whole movie either in this CG/hand drawn style or with similar technology?

Kristina Reed: I think we want to experiment with that. We believe in story first, so how that – the technique really fits the story for this short, and now we need to see if we can mold it and shape it in different ways and potentially pitch it to other directors and see where they want to take it.


Source: http://www.411mania.com/movies/columns/ ... perman.htm


Quote:
Both Kahrs and Reed have great hopes for the future of Meander and this new way of blending CG and 2D.

"We are continuing to explore the possibilities and there’s definitely interest in what we can accomplish in the feature space," says Reed.


Source: http://www.animationmagazine.net/featur ... ne-by-era/

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:30 am 
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Interesting. To me it already looks ready for a feature film but what do I know :P . From what I've seen of Paperman, this new style already looks amazing and has exceeded my own expectations of what I thought it might look like so I'm intrigued to see how they will improve it and make it look even more brilliant than it already does.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:05 am 
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Rich Moore wrote:
John Musker is working right now on an idea. [...] He went to the South Pacific.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Itt-Xf4Qg&feature=plcp

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:07 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
Rich Moore wrote:
John Musker is working right now on an idea set in the South Pacific.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Itt-Xf4Qg&feature=plcp


Maybe its set in the Philipines man that would be an interesting movie to see.And the Philipines don't get that much attention except for World War movies.That might just give me the idea that maybe its going to be a retro World War 2 movie in shoutout to the fact of Disney's part in war propaganda during World War 2.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
Rich Moore wrote:
John Musker is working right now on an idea set in the South Pacific.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Itt-Xf4Qg&feature=plcp
Ooh! That kind of reminded me of Rodgers & Hammersteins South Pacific. I did that musical before. That would be awesome. :)


Last edited by TsWade2 on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Honor Hunter wrote:
John Kahrs' "Paperman" is getting an unbelievably large amount of positive buzz. So when you go to see "Wreck-It Ralph" this fall, you'll get a diamond-like bonus in front of that film. And you will see the future of Disney Animation with this short...


Source: http://www.blueskydisney.com/2012/07/paperclips.html


Well, here's hoping.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Rich Moore wrote:
John Musker is working right now on an idea set in the South Pacific.


Is Ron Clements confirmed to be working on this film with him? Or is that just a given?

jazzflower92 wrote:
Maybe its set in the Philipines man that would be an interesting movie to see.


That would be an interesting setting for the film. The South Pacific alone is very different from the films that John Musker has worked on in the past so it will be very nice to see something original from this film.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:48 am 
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DisneyAnimation88 wrote:
Is Ron Clements confirmed to be working on this film with him? Or is that just a given?


It's both a given and confirmed. :wink: Steve Hulett confirmed that they are both working on the same project multiple times.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:40 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
It's both a given and confirmed. Steve Hulett confirmed that they are both working on the same project multiple times.


I assumed as much, it's just odd to see one mentioned without the other :lol: .

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:20 pm 
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I'm just making sure, but will this use the same technique as Paperman?


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