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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:17 pm 
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DisneyAnimation88 wrote:
What is the situation with contracts at Disney animation, are senior animators like Keane and Deja on long-term deals? I've seen conflicting reports that Keane is reaching the end of a ten-year deal but I didn't think Disney offered contracts like that to animators.


I don't really know either. I've only found a few sources regarding Glen's contract but I'm uncertain of their reliability:

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On completion of his most recent animation project for Disney, the animation of the character of Pocahontas, Glen Keane took a year-long sabbatical to live in Paris. On April 29th 1997, he renewed his animation contract with Disney for a further seven years - he is now in France at Disney's animation studios in Paris, working as the supervising animator of Tarzan in (you've guessed) Tarzan.
Source: http://www.ilhawaii.net/~beast/pages/bb_anim.htm

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Disney re-signed superstar animator Glen Keane (Ariel in "The Little Mermaid," Beast in "Beauty and the Beast" and the title characters in "Aladdin" and "Pocahontas") to a seven-year contract in late April. Minutes after the news hit the financial wires, Disney's already strong stock climbed to a new all-time high.
Source: http://articles.latimes.com/1997-06-01/ ... ed-movie/5

Quote:
CRUCIAL CAREER MOVE: Agreeing to an extended seven-year contract with Disney ("much longer than I wanted") in exchange for being allowed to take a year's sabbatical (1996-97) in Paris, where he feverishly studied anatomy and sculpture — all of which shows in Tarzan's remarkably realistic musculature.
Source: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,273868_3,00.html

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:07 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
You're making me out to be the bad guy.


No, I'm not. Why would you say that? :? :(


SWillie! wrote:
Lasseter, on the other hand, has no reason to change the way he does things... at least not yet. He has done things his way from the very beginning... whether you or I consider that tyrannical is of no consequence. The mere fact that so far, Pixar has put out hit after hit after hit allows JL do keep doing things however he sees fit - because it's working.

One day, Pixar will put out a movie that doesn't do a ridiculous amount at the box office. When that day comes, people will look at Lasseter and say "why didn't this work? You've always made it work in the past? What happened?" And Lasseter will probably have to start changing the way he does things. But until that day comes, nothing will change. To think otherwise is just false hope. Again, it's the suits' mentality of if it's not broken, don't fix it.

About the overall working conditions, I absolutely agree. It's sad that things are the way we hear they are. I hope they change sooner than later. You're making me out to be the bad guy, when the only difference between the way we feel about the whole scenario is the fact that I'm looking at it through a realistic lens, and you're looking at it from a creative lens. Like I said, if I could have things different in my little perfect world, I would. But that's simply not going to happen.

SO to pull everything together... if Pixar is (let's just say arguably so that opinions don't get in the way here)... if Pixar is arguably the most successful animation studio of all time, why would the people in charge of said studio (aka Lasseter) change the way they have done things thus far?

They wouldn't. They'd be stupid to. In a perfect world, creativity would come first. But in this world, money comes first. It's unfortunate, but it's true.


I fully understand what you're saying and I agree with you. I know that the current situation makes good business sense and it would be idealistic to say that things will change any time soon as the current managerial strategies seem to be working. Besides, all businesses' primary (if not only) goal is to make money.

However, just because these tactics make financial sense doesn't make it OK or in some cases - should I even dare say "ethical". You certainly cannot blame artists for aspiring to something better or claiming their rights. Perhaps some exposure or critique of the way things are in the animation industry will help to improve or change some things. In any case, Glen's offer, whether he accepts it or not, and the buzz it has created, has been proven positive for the employees at Disney:

Quote:
A: Glen is not the only current big league Disney animator who has had an offer from Jeffrey Katzenberg. Jeffery is wooing those guys like the stars of animation they are, while the present management team at Disney apparently doesn't want anyone to be thought of as "stars" and would very much like to level the playing field (i.e. bring down wages, for "stars" and everyone else) even more than it has been leveled already.

B: That's absolutely not true. If you were in the Hat Building, you'd know the studio is in the midst of a pay restructuring to get people MORE money.

A: The ONLY reason the Dis management might be making some noises now about raising people's pay is because of the moves Jeffery is putting on the A-list animators (like Glen). You probably weren't around to remember the last time anyone's pay went up was because of Jeffery hiring people away. If the Northern California anti-union contingent had their way they'd get everyone's wages down to on par with Emeryville and get rid of the union.

C: It sounds like wages will be raised at Disney, in an attempt to keep their employees from bolting to undeniably greener pastures elsewhere. Glenn is merely the most visible and highest profile. This is all good news for animators. Finally, the free market will decide the value of our wages, rather than being artificially dampened by illegal collusion between the studios.

D: Lets do talk about wages at Disney. When I was there I was titled an "assistant animator" yet I was never doing any assistant work, I was animating sequences. All this was done to save themselves a measly $200 a week. Not only did I animate my own shots I also assisted and inbetweened them all myself as well. Many people did this and that is the way it is. Studios need to pay you for the job you do and not classify you as something lesser to then turn around and have you animate. Obviously they have enough faith in your skills yet are unwilling to pay for them 100%.
Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... ng-on.html


These kind of practices that the last comment exposes are highly unethical and should not be happening at such a big studio as Disney which can clearly afford to pay their employees what they deserve.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:00 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
:headshake: You just can't compare Lasseter whose studio produced great animated movies to Walt who revolutionized not only the animation or the film industry but the entertainment industry in general.

The same can be said about John Lasseter. With Pixar, he revolutionized the animation industry. In the 1980's he already suggested computers being used to help develop animated features and Disney canned him for even daring to bring it up. They feared animators would be put out of work. So Lasseter and a handful of others start a small production company called Pixar and they start making shorts and commercials. It has to be said, without the money and confidence of Steve Jobs they wouldn't have made it (Jobs kept investing year after years, although the studio was losing millions of dollars).

Lasseter was the artistic compass. When they struck a deal with Disney to produce a feature lenght film, Disney wanted Toy Story to be a completely different story, with 'edgy', 'adult' and 'sarcastic' humor, but it didn't work. Lasseter rewrote the story the way he wanted it and the movie became a smash hit. He fought tooth and nail to keep Disney from bringing out direct-to-video sequels of Pixar's films and refused to sell the rights to the characters to Disney. Lasseter could have made millions of dollars very easy, but he rather protected the artistic integrity of his films.

This is all from the documentary The Pixar Story (2007). You should watch it. I could see a lot of simlarities between the visionary Walt Disney and John Lasseter, including never being satisfied with what they have accomplished, but always pushing his animators harder to become better at what they do --the same Walt used to do.

Sotiris wrote:
Owning the company and being the "boss" is not an excuse to treat your artists and employees this way or proclaiming "creative freedom" and wanting artists with a vision who can break storytelling boundaries etc when you really want is for them to merely execute your vision. Chapman's and Sanford's treatment are great examples of this.

Well, it's not that different from what Walt used to do. He would have Bill Peet work out a complete script and storyboard for Jungle Book and then come in, look at it, throw it all away and let him start from scratch. Peet's dark, but faithful adaptation was turned into a light-hearted tale that Walt wanted. And the one time Walt didn't get involved in a feature and relied entirely on his team, they turned out a real stinker called The Sword in the Stone.

Sotiris wrote:
It's not only Bruce Smith, but a lot of directors and artists, including Glen who is now pondering to leave Disney, have praised John Lasseter when he first came to run WDAS. And not unworthily, since he did improve the product Disney was producing. However, a lot of people became quickly disillusioned with Lasseter's managing strategies. It's not a coincidence that a lot of Disney and Pixar artists are fleeing to DreamWorks.

Artists have been leaving animation studios and joining others for decades. I don't get why this is such a big deal. Bill Melendez left Disney to work for Warner Bros.; Art Babbitt went to UPA, a studio formed by former Disney employees; Bill Tytla moved to TerryToons; Don Bluth left to form his own studio; Eric Golberg has done work for Warner Bros. but returned to Disney.

I'm beginning to think every excuse to bash Lasseter/Pixar on this board is good enough. Almost every thread seems to end up in Lasseter-bashing.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:22 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
I'm beginning to think every excuse to bash Lasseter/Pixar on this board is good enough. Almost every thread seems to end up in Lasseter-bashing.


No one is "bashing" Lasseter in this thread. :roll:

I just disagree with some of his managerial tactics and criticize the work conditions at Disney. That does not constitute bashing; at least not in my book.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:41 am 
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Goliath wrote:
This is all from the documentary The Pixar Story (2007). You should watch it. I could see a lot of simlarities between the visionary Walt Disney and John Lasseter, including never being satisfied with what they have accomplished, but always pushing his animators harder to become better at what they do --the same Walt used to do.

Yes. But even I and I'm sure other people here have things in common with Walt Disney. To call Lasseter or anyone the next Walt Disney is blasphemy! (exclamation added because I know how silly that would sound to you and just about anyone). I saw the Pixar Story, and it simply makes Lasseter out to be a guy who truly is fun loving and all warm and gooey as his films are, plus very determined, so those things made him able to turn out lots of good films. Steven Spielburg has turned out lots of good films, too. It's just that Lasseter happens to work in animation and happens to like Disney, too. There's a lot of similarities with him and Disney, but lots of different ones, too. The kind of art they do, for one. Lasseter has never made anything like Bambi or Fantasia. In fact, the fact that Walt Disney did not make films that were always successful is another big difference, and one I like, because it means Walt made artistic films that the majority didn't always get or approve of. It's pretty bad to say someone is the next so and so, so please look at people as individuals, my good chap. You too Swillie!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:47 am 
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DisneyDuster wrote:
I saw the Pixar Story, and it simply makes Lasseter out to be a guy who truly is fun loving and all warm and gooey as his films are, plus very determined, so those things made him able to turn out lots of good films.


That is underselling Lasseter massively. If you saw the documentary then you saw Joe Grant and Diane Disney Miller, two people who knew Walt far better than anyone here, compare Lasseter favourably to Walt. Lasseter is not at all "simply a warm and gooey guy". He was unjustly fired from Disney and went on to form arguably the most successful film studio of recent times. It shows how highly regarded he remained at Disney as the documentary states that they spent practically all of the time leading up to the release of Toy Story begging him to return to the company, yet he stsayed with Pixar when they were struggling; that to me suggests that he is a man of integrity and loyalty. I don't argue that there will never be another Walt but Lasseter is far more talented than you seem to give him credit for here.

DisneyDuster wrote:
Walt made artistic films that the majority didn't always get or approve of.


I'm not arguing this point but I wouldn't say that WALL-E or Ratatouille are mainstream concepts. Perhaps they're not artistic but I think Pixar have taken chances on films that other studios wouldn't have, similar to what Walt did. As the documentary also says, Lasseter has shown complete faith in unproven directors like Andrew Stanton and Peter Docter in the past but that seems to be forgotten by some.

Sotiris wrote:
These kind of practices that the last comment exposes are highly unethical and should not be happening at such a big studio as Disney which can clearly afford to pay their employees what they deserve.


I agree with this completely. And as you said, that seems to be happening now so things will hopefully now begin to improve.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Yes. But even I and I'm sure other people here have things in common with Walt Disney. To call Lasseter or anyone the next Walt Disney is blasphemousy! (exclamation added because I know how silly that would sound to you and just about anyone).


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:57 am 
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DisneyAnimation, I do give Lasseter those credits you also gave him, don't worry. It still doesn't make him enough like Walt. The two are just so very different. Another thing is, I didn't just mean that Walt made more artistic or less mainstream films, I mean he made films that were so much that way, the public didn't like them. That is something Lasster still hasn't done, gone so far that the public didn't like it. It's something that doesn't sit right with me, like Pixar's not really making art,, (hey, I said "like" they aren't, okay!) and instead films that either carefully or uncarefully are made to be crowd pleasers each time, but either way, it's another big difference between him and Walt.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:22 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
DisneyAnimation, I do give Lasseter those credits you also gave him, don't worry. It still doesn't make him enough like Walt. The two are just so very different.....


I know the answer.

ABC should Launch a TV show Finding the Next Walt Disney and have a you must prove your Waltness by Providing Authentic Disney Dust, if you have counterfeit Disney Dust you might inherit Tiger Blood. How else do you think Charlie Sheen has Tiger Blood :D

Lasseter In My Opinion is the Walt Disney of the 21st Century...also is there a place he can test his Waltness so he can finally prove or disprove to people that secretly he is Walt Disney with a formula of Ensure and some mixture of stuff that's like the polyjuice potion that keeps his secret of him really bing Walt and turning into John Lasseter when he drinks this Ensure Polyjuice Potion, oh and Authentic Leprechaun Gold. If you get fake Leprechaun Gold you turn into Gilbert Gottfried :P


Sorry for the off topic post or random babbling....I've only been 24 years old for 22 minutes as of this post :party:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:54 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I mean he made films that were so much that way, the public didn't like them. That is something Lasster still hasn't done, gone so far that the public didn't like it.


I think you have to redefine what an artistic film is for yourself.

Anyways, I'm glad Lasseter is nothing like Walt, but that Lasseter channels his spirit of what makes animation good. That is what the company needs right now: to have an artist in charge. I do admit that he is in control of so many things, it might be making him play too cautiously. Hopefully once he churns a few more "safe" films out and California Adventure is fixed, he will loosen up. Then, we will have more creative, new films.

(And Happy Birthday disneyboy!!! Hope you have a great day!!!)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:56 am 
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In my mind, every film is art, even the Bio-Domes and Cop Outs of the world.

As for Lasseter not producing something that is perfectly timed as crowd-pleasers, you don't recall him putting forth a project about robots who speak with extremely minimal dialogue through the entire course of the film? Heck, Wall-E is practically a silent film at times, bringing to mind the works of Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. Considering, silent films are pretty much a dead artform, that's fairly ballsy on Lasseter and Stanton' part.

And personally, I felt it paid off and, in my opinion, they made a film better than anything Walt Disney, Hayao Miyazaki and Jeffrey Katzenberg were ever involved with.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:46 pm 
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DisneyDuster wrote:
Another thing is, I didn't just mean that Walt made more artistic or less mainstream films, I mean he made films that were so much that way, the public didn't like them.


Like Fantasia and Bambi? He didn't make those films in the hope that the public wouldn't like them. That is the exact opposite of what he wanted so I don't really understand your point here.

DisneyDuster wrote:
That is something Lasster still hasn't done, gone so far that the public didn't like it.


And that's a bad thing? :?

I'm not saying Lasseter is another Walt, nor do I think that he needs to be. But I think he deserves a lot more credit than he gets on this forum. Something that Lasseter does have in common with Walt is that he has revolutionised not only animation but the film industry in general.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
DisneyAnimation, I do give Lasseter those credits you also gave him, don't worry. It still doesn't make him enough like Walt. The two are just so very different. Another thing is, I didn't just mean that Walt made more artistic or less mainstream films, I mean he made films that were so much that way, the public didn't like them. That is something Lasster still hasn't done, gone so far that the public didn't like it. It's something that doesn't sit right with me, like Pixar's not really making art,, (hey, I said "like" they aren't, okay!) and instead films that either carefully or uncarefully are made to be crowd pleasers each time, but either way, it's another big difference between him and Walt.


It's odd that you seem to associate "art" with "the public doesn't like it," which feels like a pretty narrow view to me. The two are not mutually exclusive.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:22 pm 
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Glen Keane has shed some light on the whole DreamWorks offer, but hasn't said whether he will be leaving or not.

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/glen-k-speaks.html

Glen Keane wrote:
"My contract is up at Disney in May, and I'm doing due diligence, looking around, seeing what's out there. I'm 57 years old and I want to make the rest of my career count.

"I've known Jeffrey Katzenberg for a long time, and like him. And DreamWorks Animation is a dynamic studio. I also like what's happening at Disney. I think Tangled was one of our best features, and I did more drawings on it than I did working on Tarzan. It was great working with the animators on the crew, helping them take the work to the next level ..."


Steve Hulett/TAG Blog wrote:
Glen didn't say whether he was moving on to another studio or not. He related that he likes the people he's working with at the Mouse House a lot, but said he's interested in "working without walls," which I took to mean he's going to look at his options and decide what he wants his next project(s) and/or studio(s) to be.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
DisneyAnimation, I do give Lasseter those credits you also gave him, don't worry. It still doesn't make him enough like Walt. The two are just so very different. Another thing is, I didn't just mean that Walt made more artistic or less mainstream films, I mean he made films that were so much that way, the public didn't like them. That is something Lasster still hasn't done, gone so far that the public didn't like it. It's something that doesn't sit right with me, like Pixar's not really making art,, (hey, I said "like" they aren't, okay!) and instead films that either carefully or uncarefully are made to be crowd pleasers each time, but either way, it's another big difference between him and Walt.

So you think Walt *intended* for Pinocchio, Fantasia and Bambi to bomb on their initial release? WTF?! Are you for real?! Walt *wanted* to make crowd-pleasers. That's why he returned to the fairy tale concept after WW II to save his studio. Walt didn't make 'art'. He made entertainment. And he was pretty damn good at it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:53 pm 
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Glen Keane wrote:
My contract is up at Disney in May, and I'm doing due diligence, looking around, seeing what's out there. I'm 57 years old and I want to make the rest of my career count. I've known Jeffrey Katzenberg for a long time, and like him. And DreamWorks Animation is a dynamic studio. I also like what's happening at Disney. I think Tangled was one of our best features, and I did more drawings on it than I did working on Tarzan. It was great working with the animators on the crew, helping them take the work to the next level.

Steve Hulett wrote:
Glen didn't say whether he was moving on to another studio or not. He related that he likes the people he's working with at the Mouse House a lot, but said he's interested in "working without walls," which I took to mean he's going to look at his options and decide what he wants his next project(s) and/or studio(s) to be.
Source: http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... peaks.html


Sounds to me that he's seriously thinking of leaving Disney. I hope he doesn't though and gets to work on a hand-drawn feature at Disney again. He could work on Mort or they could let him direct a project of his own. Snow Queen perhaps? It sounds like he does want his own project instead of simply working on one.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Sotiris wrote:
estefan wrote:
Glen Keane has shed some light on the whole DreamWorks offer, but hasn't said whether he will be leaving or not.

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/glen-k-speaks.html

Glen Keane wrote:
"My contract is up at Disney in May, and I'm doing due diligence, looking around, seeing what's out there. I'm 57 years old and I want to make the rest of my career count.

"I've known Jeffrey Katzenberg for a long time, and like him. And DreamWorks Animation is a dynamic studio. I also like what's happening at Disney. I think Tangled was one of our best features, and I did more drawings on it than I did working on Tarzan. It was great working with the animators on the crew, helping them take the work to the next level ..."


Steve Hulett/TAG Blog wrote:
Glen didn't say whether he was moving on to another studio or not. He related that he likes the people he's working with at the Mouse House a lot, but said he's interested in "working without walls," which I took to mean he's going to look at his options and decide what he wants his next project(s) and/or studio(s) to be.


Sounds to me that he's seriously thinking of leaving Disney. I hope he doesn't though and gets to work on a hand-drawn feature at Disney again. He could work on Mort or they could let him direct a project of his own. Snow Queen perhaps? It sounds like he does want his own project instead of simply working on one.


NOOOOOOOZ! :cry: :cry:

I would love it if Glen directs another movie. Snow Queen would be a good start!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:11 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
Pixar is the most successful animation studio of all time.


SWillie, I'm saying this in a good way, but do you know what you made me think of?

"Yo, Disney! I'm really happy of your successes. I'm gonna let you finish making movies, but Pixar is the most successful animation studio of all time! ALL TIME! JUST SAYING! :D"

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:42 am 
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Sotiris wrote:
Sounds to me that he's seriously thinking of leaving Disney. I hope he doesn't though and gets to work on a hand-drawn feature at Disney again. He could work on Mort or they could let him direct a project of his own. Snow Queen perhaps? It sounds like he does want his own project instead of simply working on one.


I was thinking the same, that it would be intersting what Keane could do with a character like Death in Mort. To be honest, I don't think he would direct if he did go to DreamWorks; with all the projects they apparently have planned there I think he would have the same sort of role that he does at Disney, as a supervising animator.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:47 pm 
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Lasseter Animosity?
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... osity.html

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