Episode 4: A New Hope for Gay UD Threads?

ajmrowland · Post by **ajmrowland** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:08 pm

neither did I.

SpringHeelJack · Post by **SpringHeelJack** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:28 pm

I'm trying to remember the last time a celebrity coming out was an actual surprise to me, and I'm really unable to think of one.

Alphapanchito · Post by **Alphapanchito** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:38 pm

She's beautiful, and she has become a real hard femme/feminist role model for a lot of people.

(oh and i know Duster once told me that he thought this thread was only for gay/bi/lesbian conversations, but the topic post says its for "lgbt people", and I think saying that and totally ignoring the "t" isn't right.)

Flanger-Hanger · Post by **Flanger-Hanger** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:02 pm

Fascinating story on the gay extortion rings of NYC in the mid-1960s. A must read for every LGBT person:

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/hist ... letter_tis

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:22 am

Interesting to read the history of Ed Murphy at the end there. The part about Church was pretty sad.

I've seen the film, Victim, that they talked about, so it wasn't really a shock to read about a huge extortion ring having existed. I'm sure there are still people blackmailed for their sexuality.

Disney Duster · Post by **Disney Duster** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:47 pm

I may have to read that later.

Alphapanchito wrote:(oh and i know Duster once told me that he thought this thread was only for gay/bi/lesbian conversations, but the topic post says its for "lgbt people", and I think saying that and totally ignoring the "t" isn't right.)

Yea. I would have made just a gay and lesbian thread, but the maker of the thread decided what it would be, so you're right there.

Alphapanchito · Post by **Alphapanchito** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:53 pm

Disney Duster wrote: Yea. I would have made just a gay and lesbian thread, but the maker of the thread decided what it would be, so you're right there.

I get why you would think that, because yeah, being transgender has absolutely nothing to do with sexual preference. And being gay is all about sexual preference. But I do wonder why you didn't include bi people?

The reason why we lump lgbt together is because all of those people have something in common- we are all queer, and we are discriminated against because of veering away from gender norms (I say we because I am gay, although I think i mentioned that before). I hope you don't mind if I quote Autumn Sandeen, because I think she explains it really well.

there is an external force that pushes lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) together as a community — the commonality of discrimination based on visible gender expression. If one thinks for a moment, the most discriminated against members of the LGB portion of the LGBT community are lesbians who, by societal sex and gender norms, are considered masculine; and gay men who, again by societal sex and gender norms, considered feminine. It’s how many lesbian, gay, and bisexual people visibly express gender identifies them as lesbian and gay. And, some in our society — despising lesbian and gay people — single out these visible LGB people for harassment and discrimination.

Trans people have the same gender expression issue — especially trans women. Male-to-female people who don’t “pass” in their target sex are also perceived to be feminine gay men because their gender expression, and are subject to discrimination as such. And, when they call trans women pejoratives, those pejoratives are often “fag,” “faggot,” and “fairy” — anti-gay epithets.

As Kate Bornstein describes it, we folk in the LGBT community are all “gender outlaws” — all lesbian, gay, and bisexual people all “violate” societal sex and gender norms by our sexual orientations and/or our gender identities. And, that “violation” of societal sex and gender norms, be it from whom we love or how we identify our gender, is the “why” behind why many of us LGBT folk are singled out for harassment and discrimination. And, we should note here that those who hate LGBT people can’t tell gay men, trans women, drag queens, and crossdressers apart — as well as not being able to tell butch women, trans men, and drag kings apart. Many in society see all those who don’t conform to societal sex and gender norms as being lesbian or gay — with all the anti-LGBT hate that goes with being perceived as lesbian or gay.

Lastly, gender variant people have been part of the LGBT civil rights movement since before the Stonewall Riots and Uprising. Drag queens and folk we’d now identify as transgender — such as Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera — were there battling for equality back in the days that the movement was called the Gay Liberation movement.

In other words, there are several reasons that LGB is “lumped together” with T in the LGBT community. And to quote suffragist Alice Paul regarding her civil rights movement — with a quote that could apply to any civil rights movement, including the LGBT civil rights movement — “I always feel the movement is a sort of mosaic. Each of us puts in one little stone, and then you get a great mosaic at the end.”

Basically, we all face similar discrimination so fighting against that discrimination together only makes sense.

The bad thing about lumping together lgbt people is something that some people like to call the "phantom T effect", which is basically when people tag on the t and the end just to be inclusive, with no intent of really including trans people.

Disney Duster · Post by **Disney Duster** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:13 pm

Oh sorry this was late but I just forgot to include bi people. I mean I used to think there was no such thing as bi, and to a degree it is true that you will always prefer one sex at least a little bit over the other, but yes I would include bi people in a thread pertaining to sexual preference.

Flanger-Hanger · Post by **Flanger-Hanger** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:18 pm

An interesting episode of "Sneak Previews" (with Siskel and Ebert) from 1982 that looks at the then trend in movies to feature gay characters. It also discusses the evolution of gay characters in film up to that point:

http://siskelandebert.org/video/48H5SYK ... ality-1982

ProfessorRatigan · Post by **ProfessorRatigan** » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:35 pm

Has anybody else on here had to deal with this Chick Fil-A bullshit yet? I'm getting sick of it. I've already lost three 'friends' on Facebook over this. It seems to just keep getting bigger and bigger where I live (the southern United States) with more and more of these...fucking Christians coming out and 'supporting' Chick Fil-A for their 'morals' and Christian values. It's depressing. I thought my generation was better than this.

DancingCrab · Post by **DancingCrab** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:56 am

This "Chick-Fil-A" Phenomenon is THE most ridiculous bullsh** I think I have EVER experienced in this country regarding the gay-marriage debate. There is legitimate cause for concern because of completely asinine behavior on both sides of this fiasco.

a recap of whats happening....

Information (that has been out for YEARS) about super conservative and religiously owned and operated fast food company, Chick-Fil-A, not only has a public opinion that does not favor giving rights to homosexual couples to marry, but throughout the years has donated MILLIONS of dollars to religious based groups that actively work to fight against the states issuing these rights. When questioned about these donations, owner Dan Cathy replies "Guilty as Charged" which is a pretty insensitive response to such a question.

Gay people and their allies, rightfully get pissed and decide that giving money to this company actually does contribute active harm to the advancement of gay rights. A nationwide boycott becomes news, the Jim Henson co. withdrawals from their partnership over differences on the issue. Everything is going the way a boycott should go... but then... some Boston mayor goes and f***s everything up.

Mayor Thomas Menino declares that the homophobic company better not think about opening a store in his town. This idiot might as well have hand delivered firing ammo to the doorsteps of every conservative, republican, and false Christian in the country. He turned a proper boycott into a scapegoat for the religious right and every homophobe in the country to declare the gay-marriage movement as an infringement on the rights of American freedom. Menino is followed by the mayors of Chicago and San Francisco in threatening the business to "stay out". Now the fire has turned into a bad disaster movie from the 1990's.

Conservative, Mike Huckabee encourages Americans to have a Chick-Fil-A appreciation day to fight for the freedom that the gays and liberals are trying to steal from them. Original boycotters are calling BS, that this isn't a freedom of speech issue, but it's too late, the issue against Chick-Fil-A has been corrupted because of a few dumb politicians who overstepped boundaries with an American business' right to speak and practice it's political and religious beliefs as it sees fit.

Now, situation is completely out of control and has ignited an insane level of people having the nerve to express the hatred and intolerance they seem to have been wanting to say to us "gays" for a long time. People can't post ANY thought on facebook without somebody on their friends list turning it into an argument. Friends deleting friends left and right, people being interviewed standing in line at Chick-Fil-A saying the most ghastly things about gay people. Right now it feels like anytime there is a voice of reason, it quickly gets drowned out by an a-hole who has twisted this into something it was never intended to be.

That seems to be where we are at the moment from what I've been able to put together. Sadly, still in a state of chaos.

This is the first time I've ever felt afraid of this country in such a way, and yet I've never been prouder to be a gay man. I have THE most wonderful love in my life, and though false Christians and politicians may spew ignorant and hateful oppression at us, I am blessed that I can look into the eyes of the man I love and see that those morons are all full of nothing but WRONG. The love he and I share is a genuine and blessed thing. Anyone who says differently is wrong. No If's, And's or But's about it, they are 100% dead wrong.

And whether what's happening in this country is going to turn out for the better or worse, I will know that I stood up for the correct side on this issue.

ProfessorRatigan · Post by **ProfessorRatigan** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:11 am

http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p=288 -I think this post is the perfect response to this fiasco. It eloquently expresses everything I've been trying to say to the haters over the past few days over Facebook.

"This is the first time I've ever felt afraid of this country in such a way, and yet I've never been prouder to be a gay man."

-That is EXACTLY how I feel. It makes me frightened seeing this visceral HATE on display, from people I thought were tolerant 'friends.' It's sickening. Especially knowing it was sparked by the former-governor of my HOME STATE (Arkansas) Mike Huckabee. (Or Fuckabee, as my friends and I have taken to calling him over the years.) He really is a despicable human being. He goes on the airways talking about 'homosexuals' (like me) are 'immoral,' meanwhile HIS SON TORTURED AND KILLED A DOG at a summer camp. (Google it, if you don't believe me.) As my mother said, I'd rather have a homosexual for a son than an animal torturing psycho. But what would I know? I'm a deviant. How could I judge right and wrong?

I'm not 'out' to everyone. A few friends, but not my entire family or everyone on my Facebook. I've never seen something that just made me want to come out in full force like this debacle has. I'm seriously considering doing it. Ripping the band-aid off and just going ahead and getting it over with. I guess I'll see how this develops over the next few days.[/quote]

DancingCrab · Post by **DancingCrab** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:40 am

That was a great blog you linked to. You're right. It is the perfect response. Thanks for sharing it.

Lazario · Post by **Lazario** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:44 am

Since no one else has posted it yet:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sO-msplukrw" frameborder="0"></iframe>

DancingCrab wrote:a recap of whats happening....

Information (that has been out for YEARS) about super conservative and religiously owned and operated fast food company, Chick-Fil-A, not only has a public opinion that does not favor giving rights to homosexual couples to marry, but throughout the years has donated MILLIONS of dollars to religious based groups that actively work to fight against the states issuing these rights. When questioned about these donations, owner Dan Cathy replies "Guilty as Charged" which is a pretty insensitive response to such a question.

Gay people and their allies, rightfully get pissed and decide that giving money to this company actually does contribute active harm to the advancement of gay rights. A nationwide boycott becomes news, the Jim Henson co. withdrawals from their partnership over differences on the issue. Everything is going the way a boycott should go... but then... some Boston mayor goes and f***s everything up.

Mayor Thomas Menino declares that the homophobic company better not think about opening a store in his town. This idiot might as well have hand delivered firing ammo to the doorsteps of every conservative, republican, and false Christian in the country. He turned a proper boycott into a scapegoat for the religious right and every homophobe in the country to declare the gay-marriage movement as an infringement on the rights of American freedom.

Not sure I agree with you there.

You just illustrated that the company's profits are being used publically against gay rights, a boycott very publically asserts that this is wrong, and that this same boycott is intending to affect the profits of a company doing something wrong. This mayor's actions are public and are intended to affect the profits of this company.

Exactly...what did he do wrong?

Disney Duster · Post by **Disney Duster** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:40 am

Actually, this is a good way to see what people really think about gays and who's really your friends, isn't it? And remember, all your Facebook friends are not all really your friends.

Dancing Crab by standing up for the correct side do you mean you chose not to eat at Chik-fil-a or something lol or you just stood your ground as saying you are who you are and its not wrong?

carolinakid · Post by **carolinakid** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:40 am

The line at our local Chick-fil-A was out the door for Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day. It made the local (Philadelphia) news.

I have an out gay friend who works for Chick-fil-A in Georgia and he says it's a fantastic company to work for.

I say if you disagree with Mr Cathy's opinions or how he chooses to donate his own money, then don't patronize Chick-fil-A. There are plenty of places where I refuse to spend my money. But for a mayor to tell a legitimate and legal business he doesn't want them in his town or will try to shut them down is wrong to me. That screams fascism to me.

And I loved Willam's video!

ProfessorRatigan · Post by **ProfessorRatigan** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:16 am

^When he's donating millions to a group that actively tried to get a bill in Uganda passed that would make homosexuality punishable by DEATH, we have a right to call "Mr." (and I use the term loosely) Cathy a fascist. Those aren't 'opinions' they're prejudices.

It isn't fascistic for a mayor to say they don't want that kind of intolerable hate in their town.

A thoughtful quote I saw on twitter, paraphrased, "Was there a Woolworth's Counter Appreciation day in 1960?"

Was Eisenhower a fascist because he sent the National Guard into Little Rock, Arkansas, to ensure that the black students got into the schools? Civil rights are civil rights.

Flanger-Hanger · Post by **Flanger-Hanger** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:05 am

The Chick Fil-A fiasco is so foreign to me for several reasons.

I don't believe any locations exist in Canada, and if they do I doubt they'd be allowed to be so explicitly anti-gay as they are in the US as there are laws against such things here. I've never really heard of them before this and now it's the centre of attention, which just seems weird to me (or a slow non-Olympic news week in the US).

Also, did everyone forget what companies like Nike and Google say they were going to do FOR gay people this year? Who cares what one fried chicken company (who has most of it locations within one region of the US - the south) thinks when Microsoft, Disney, Apple, Facebook, Coke, Pepsi (and by association KFC), Starbucks, Virgin, Gap, JC Penny, and so many other major American corporate players DO support LGBT people and causes.

Right-wingers are SO desperate to cling to ANYTHING that fits their radical world view that they'll support anything to absurd degrees that supports their cause. But just remember that 89% of Fortune 500 companies have polices against anti-gay discrimination, Prop 8 and DOMA are continuing to loose court battles and polling continues to show a majority US residents support SSM.

Those "Chick"s are going to end up being the real losers no matter what. With so many other fast-food options out there, who cares what one thinks?

Edit: I bet alot of these "support Chick Fil-A" people are ones who go home and use all manner of products from companies that do support gay people without ever realizing the irony (and hopelesness) of it all.

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:34 am

Disney Duster wrote:Actually, this is a good way to see what people really think about gays and who's really your friends, isn't it? And remember, all your Facebook friends are not all really your friends.

Well, you generally find that kind of thing out on Facebook all the time. Thankfully, I avoid Facebook most of the time, but I have seen some people going on a crusade saying how they "went to CFA again," as if Christians are the ones being discriminated against.

Somehow they manage to always make it about them, and their rights.

I have to say I've never been to Chick-Fil-A and, at this point, never will. I hope they go out of business (though that's unlikely).

DancingCrab · Post by **DancingCrab** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:01 am

Lazario, there is nothing wrong with his opinion, obviously I agree with his personal views on LGBT rights, but as a person of political power, he's overstepped himself by coming across as threatening to keep a business from operating that no matter how wrong they are, are still in the legal right. I think had he been more careful how he had worded his support, things might be a little bit less nuts right now. His threats, along with San Fran and Chicago, have just made it easier for people like Huckabee, Palin and Santorum to rally the people into flocking to chick-fil-a to protect their free speech.

Duster, sorry for not being clearer, it was in the wee hours of the morning after a million arguments with FRIENDS all day, but by standing up for the correct side, I was talking about the general and overall fight for equality in this country for myself, my boyfriend and the entire LGBT community. I got defensive because I had a LOT of hurtful things said to me yesterday from close people I never imagined would say such to or about their "friends". It's painful enough to learn a friend's true colors are against you, but when it's nearly a dozens in one day, it's overwhelming, and proof that shit needs to change in this country and no minority group should be under the foot of people who feel like that towards them.

Sheeple going to Chick-Fil-A to protect their freedom, are being ignoramuses. They are not doing any research on the controversy to see that there is legitimate cause for a boycott from people trying to advance equality. All they care is that leaders of their preferred political party have told them to run, don't walk, to Chick-Fil-A because their freedom is on the line.

If you haven't read that blog that ProfessorRatigan posted, please do, the blogger puts up a great, straight forward argument about everything. I'll be forwarding that link to a lot of my friends.

DVDizzy Forum

Latest Movie Reviews

🎬 DVDizzy Top Stories️️

Episode 4: A New Hope for Gay UD Threads?