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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:31 am 
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Here is a video of the announcement:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/08W5Os-Wnj0&hl=en&fs=1&hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/08W5Os-Wnj0&hl=en&fs=1&hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

A lot more artwork is shown here than what was released. I will stick with my previous assessment, all style and no substance. Beautiful theming that will surly drop some jaws but nothing more than little meet and greet activities for kids. The Dumbo idea still seems dumb.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:23 am 
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David S. wrote:
However, the rest of the expansion seems like a missed opportunity to add some of those other rides - classics like Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Alice In Wonderland, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (which we ONCE had), Casey Jr. Circus Train, Storybook Land Canal Boats, and the Matterhorn Bobsleds will still be missing from the MK.


As much as I would love to see a salute to these classic Disney animated films in Walt Disney World, I really would hate to see a clone of Disneyland's Fantasyland in Florida. I just recently went to Disneyland this past summer after nearly a decade's worth of summers visiting Disneyland and part of the charm and excitement of visiting Disneyland was that even though those attractions were from the original park opening and the 1983 renovation, they were completely refreshing and new to me because this was something you could not (or no longer could not in regards to Toad) find in WDW. I think it would be a grave mistake on Disney's part to clone their theme parks and plop them all over the globe. Though one could argue that essentially all the Disneylands and the Magic Kingdoms are essentially the same, they each have their own unique twists and differences that make them special. I would love for Phantom Manor and the dueling pirates in DL Paris to be in WDW's Haunted Mansion and Pirates, but then that takes away the specialness of not only Paris, but the original versions at WDW and DL. Though it may be easier for East Coast guests to journey to Florida rather than California had these attractions been built in WDW, the fact that there are differences makes each park more special and unique. Copying them would just make the Disney theme parks a chain of establishments like McDonald's.


David S. wrote:
While I'm sure the new architecture and new music loops will be very charming and awesome, and people who enjoy queueing up to meet princesses will have a more enhanced experience in the new FL, I am sad that Toontown will be razed in the process. The razing of Toontown would have been easier for me to support IF the FL expansion would actually have more than one new ride, but it doesn't.

I admit to being in the apparent minority of online Disney fans who finds Toontown utterly charming, from the music loop drawing heavily on scores from the classic character shorts and Silly Symphonies, to the charming architecture and propping inside Mickey and Minnie's Houses. I wish the new expansion could have stayed more behind the existing FL and left Toontown intact, or possibly even expanded Toontown with the long-awaited WDW debut of Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin (yet another classic DL darkride absent in the MK). When these plans were first leaked, I was honestly hoping the typical Rasulo budget cuts would kick in, so we would get the new Mermaid ride, but save Toontown.


Okay, now I'm agreeing with you! I totally am going to miss Toontown. It really is such a charming area with a lot of witty, comical, and creative visual elements that really enhance the environment at Magic Kingdom. MK is all about putting you in these historical, exotic and enchanted environments and I feel that Toontown does it really really well. It's easy to believe that the classic cartoon characters and their homes can exist among us and children can visit the world' most famous mice in their own homes. I'm hoping that whatever new home for Minnie and Mickey that's apparently moving to the front of the park will do justice to their own homes in Toontown Fair/Mickey's Starland/Birthdayland. Besides the Jungle Cruise, Mickey's Starland was one of my favorite things about my first trip to Disney World.

Though I'm going to miss Toontown, I really am excited for a Dumbo area! Dumbo's usually on the top of my list of favorite DAC's and I'm so glad that FINALLY after over 50 years, a Disney theme park will have a Dumbo Circus-esque attraction.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:09 am 
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PrincePhillipFan wrote:
The meet and greet with characters have grown in a lot more prominence, more than anything it seems in the past decade, but I think that the attractions and the whole level of detailed theming and ambience is what draws the audience more than anything.


jpanimation wrote:
A lot more artwork is shown here than what was released. I will stick with my previous assessment, all style and no substance. Beautiful theming that will surly drop some jaws but nothing more than little meet and greet activities for kids. The Dumbo idea still seems dumb.


Thanks so much for posting that video, jpanimation! It really gave me a better idea of what these new princess areas are. I'm a little annoyed that Cinderella is getting an additional area when she already has a whole castle, restaurant, exclusive suite, and boutique, but the idea of possibly having a meet and greet area for the Tremaines sounds exciting! Also, I'm totally stoked for the Beauty and the Beast theme area and restaurant. The idea of traveling from Maurice's house to the castle sounds like such a fun adventure! Though I could do without the reenacting of the story for Belle. Also, it's great to have an additional table service option at MK and Gaston's Tavern will surely appeal to the male audiences who may feel gypped by the princess/pixie take over of Fantasyland. I wonder what they'll serve if they can't serve beer in Disney World? The concept art showed guests with foaming beer mugs...maybe some nice root beer floats. I wonder how Gaston and his buddies will feel about that, haha!

I see what you mean though that the new areas are essentially catering mostly to kids if anything, but to add what PrincePhillipFan already said, one cannot think of this new Fantasyland as just some fancy icing on a meet-n-greet cake. The huge investment into theming is what sets Disney theme parks apart from other entertainment oriented parks from a Six Flags to Universal Studios. Some Six Flag parks do attempt at theming sometimes, but it's layout is essentially standalone rides that do little more than provide a thrill in your day. Disney does provide thrills but always manages to thread in a story whether you're conscious of it or not. The theming of the areas along with the attractions allows you to totally immerse yourself into the worlds of its characters, even if you don't go on rides. In Six Flags, you pretty much wasted $40+ if you don't ride anything. Islands of Adventure tried really hard to do similar things with their theming and they did it extremely well, but the problem is that the themes they've chosen (aside from Dr. Seuss and Harry Potter) are not as memorable and nostalgic as the fantasy properties that Disney is known for. It would be a crime on Disney's part to not do this type of expansion. Fantasyland had been a tournament tent style area of attractions since 1971, so this new immersive and accurately portrayed fairy tale themed area is a long-awaited, needed addition to the existing Fantasyland. It's easy to see the new Fantasyland as just kids lining up to get an autograph and a picture, but from what Jay Rasulo described, it's going to be so much more than that! It's really an interactive experience to not just meet a character, but to explore their environment and be a part of it...be a part of their story. I'd be happy to make a Birthday card for Aurora and teach Cinderella how to dance. :)

The meet and greets have become a really HUGE thing not only here, but in other Disneylands. I read that when Hong Kong Disneyland first opened, there were essentially no lines for the attractions because everyone was in line to meet the characters. They even have a Fantasy Gardens area devoted to just meeting characters. I think it's similar to the pavillion/gazebo style of Camp Minnie-Mickey at Animal Kingdom.

I do agree though, that the Pixie Hollow portion is going to fade with time, but then again, what hasn't in all of Walt Disney World? I think the long term factors of the new Pixie Hollow area is that it's an environment that shrinks you down to minuscule proportions. I mean, not many (if any) kids currently in high school or college are familiar or have any idea what the Honey, I Shrunk the Kids movie franchise was, but that whole area in Disney Hollywood Studios is still popular with children and older guests alike because of the environment and "fantasy" it provides. When "a bug's life" premiered in the late 90s, they had a giant Flik statue, signage, and meet and greets at the entrance, I guess to trick guests into connecting the area to the current popular characters of the times. Who knows? Maybe Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland will bring renewed and more widespread interest in Wonderland and Disney will retheme the area to a Wonderland play area. (AHHH that sounds more awesome, I hope that's what ends up happening!)

As for Dumbo, I think it's my favorite part of the whole expansion (other than Dumbo being my favorite DAC). As I said previously, there have been plans for a Dumbo circus themed area since Walt Disney was planning Disneyland and to finally see it come to fruition is a salute to the classic Disney and a great contrast to its neighboring Pixie Hollow. At first glance there's little value to adding another spinning carnival ride (already existing as 3 other incarnations in WDW - Aladdin, Astro Orbiter, and Triceratops Spin in Dinoland), one has to remember that Jay Rasulo stated that Dumbo is the most popular Fantasyland attraction. My sister worked as a Fantasyland attractions host and she said it was second after Peter Pan to have the longest lines. Disney is simply catering to the responses of its guests by doubling the ride capacity of its most popular Fantasyland ride.

Also, there are rumors that the 2nd Dumbo attraction is going to be a rethemed Magic Carpets of Aladdin. Though the Aladdin themed area in Adventureland was a refreshing addition at the time and great opportunity to bring Aladdin back to the Disney parks, I'd like to see a more classic Adventureland return without the sudden interruption of Agrabah.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:52 am 
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Here's how I'm feeling about the expansion: Everything is going to look awesome, and I am especially excited for the new BATB-themed eateries. What can I say, I love food, and was on the dining plan my last two visits!

The rest of the areas seem like more ways to exclude people who don't have kids. Sure, if you're a parent or with somebody else's kid, there are a lot of ways to have fun and get involved in the action. However, as couple of adults hanging around the child-centric attractions, you tend to get odd looks from Disney security. Don't get me wrong, it will still be really cool, but until I have kids (which will make Disney trips waaay more expensive :( ), I can't see much personal gain from the expansion.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:22 pm 
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David S. wrote:
However, the rest of the expansion seems like a missed opportunity to add some of those other rides - classics like Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Alice In Wonderland, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (which we ONCE had), Casey Jr. Circus Train, Storybook Land Canal Boats, and the Matterhorn Bobsleds will still be missing from the MK.

Actually in the Dumbo section there is a Casey Jr. Circus Train if you look at the concept art closely. Whether it's a ride or not I'm not sure.

WDW doesn't need a Matterhorn since we have Expedition Everest at Animal Kingdom which is essentially the same ride.

Although I can agree that having same rides in different parks make it too much of a "clone" I do wish We got an Alice in Wonderland ride like DL and a Pinocchio ride(since Paris, DL, and Tokyo have one) and Pinocchio gives off a very fantasy feel.

Only other thing they should fix is the facade of Small World. WDW only one with a shitty looking one. they should know down the current building and rebuild the Small World a bit further back since there is room back there.
David S. wrote:
I am sad that Toontown will be razed in the process. The razing of Toontown would have been easier for me to support IF the FL expansion would actually have more than one new ride, but it doesn't.

I always never really cared for Toon town in WDW as never really "excite" me. Where as when finding out about DL's it excites me. So what they could do IF they have money and room is build Toon town section in Disney Hollywood studios as Toons can fit there too and also make a fitting place for Roger rabbit ride if they decided do it.


David S. wrote:
PPS. When Pooh was added in 1998, a lot of people defended the decision to raze Toad rather than expand FL to add Pooh. In hindsight, if they WERE willing to expand FL north of it's existing borders, we could have kept Toad all along and had a new show building for Pooh!

there would be no room as far as i can see upon looking at the current Fantasyland from above and the blue print.
David S. wrote:
I agree! There is a lot that a South American section could do for AK, both in terms of unique animals that could be added, as well as the atmosphere of the continent itself (rainforest, etc). Australia and North America would make great additions as well.

North America and Australia do have great animals but I think Animal Kingdom is using specifically the "more adventurous" continents. Which is why I chosen S. America.

David S. wrote:
Another area that could use work is World Showcase at Epcot. There hasn't been a new country since Norway in the late 80's, and they are only using 11 out of a possible 19 total pads for countries (although International Gateway took one, so I guess they could add up to 7 more countries for a total of 18.) Also, some of the existing countries, specifically those in the back closest to the US pavilion, could use attractions as well.
Upon seeing Epcot map and from satellite google, Where would they have the room to put 7 more? They could know down that africa outpost but that's about it.



I have two concerning question for Princephillip fan.

1. After watching video and hearing more in-depth news on the fantasyland, Did they ever say or confirm about the news you said about that Alice in Wonderland coster?

2. You also said after the new fantasyland being built, they will renovate the facade of the current fantasyland (ala getting rid of those tournament tents and shit). Is this still true and will happen?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:27 pm 
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Super Aurora wrote:
David S. wrote:
However, the rest of the expansion seems like a missed opportunity to add some of those other rides - classics like Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Alice In Wonderland, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (which we ONCE had), Casey Jr. Circus Train, Storybook Land Canal Boats, and the Matterhorn Bobsleds will still be missing from the MK.

Actually in the Dumbo section there is a Casey Jr. Circus Train if you look at the concept art closely. Whether it's a ride or not I'm not sure.


Good point, but I think if there were plans to add a ride other than Mermaid, (such as Casey), they would have been touting it along with all the other new features.

Quote:
WDW doesn't need a Matterhorn since we have Expedition Everest at Animal Kingdom which is essentially the same ride.


Thematically, I can see your point. As a coaster enthusiast, however, I would say Everest reminds me very little of the Matterhorn as far as the physicality of the ride. The WDW Space Mountain was actually WDWs "answer" to the Matterhorn (as far as the ride system itself) with it's twin tracks and shorter, Wild-Maus style cars - as well as the gradual descent throughout the ride with no major uphills which keeps the speed going throughout the ride. Everest has the longer trains and different elements and feels like a completely different ride to me than Matterhorn or Space. The thing is, Space Mountain as a theme/concept was so popular that DL got their own version anyway, after WDWs was built, and that's how Cali ended up with an extra coaster/mountain in their "castle park".

Quote:
Although I can agree that having same rides in different parks make it too much of a "clone" I do wish We got an Alice in Wonderland ride like DL and a Pinocchio ride(since Paris, DL, and Tokyo have one) and Pinocchio gives off a very fantasy feel.


I completely agree!


Super Aurora wrote:
David S. wrote:
I am sad that Toontown will be razed in the process. The razing of Toontown would have been easier for me to support IF the FL expansion would actually have more than one new ride, but it doesn't.

I always never really cared for Toon town in WDW as never really "excite" me. Where as when finding out about DL's it excites me. So what they could do IF they have money and room is build Toon town section in Disney Hollywood studios as Toons can fit there too and also make a fitting place for Roger rabbit ride if they decided do it.


I'd be in favor. I've always wanted the Roger Rabbit ride, and Mickey and the gang need a new place to live!


Super Aurora wrote:
David S. wrote:
PPS. When Pooh was added in 1998, a lot of people defended the decision to raze Toad rather than expand FL to add Pooh. In hindsight, if they WERE willing to expand FL north of it's existing borders, we could have kept Toad all along and had a new show building for Pooh!

there would be no room as far as i can see upon looking at the current Fantasyland from above and the blue print.


No, I meant at the time they tore down Toad, they could have just built Pooh a new building and kept Toad, using just a small portion of all the land they will be using to expand on now (that many fans at the time pretended like this land wasn't there!)

Super Aurora wrote:
David S. wrote:
I agree! There is a lot that a South American section could do for AK, both in terms of unique animals that could be added, as well as the atmosphere of the continent itself (rainforest, etc). Australia and North America would make great additions as well.

North America and Australia do have great animals but I think Animal Kingdom is using specifically the "more adventurous" continents. Which is why I chosen S. America.


Right, that would probably be the best choice. I didn't mean to imply those others would be better, just that after they would add South America, they should look at those as well ;)

Super Aurora wrote:
David S. wrote:
Another area that could use work is World Showcase at Epcot. There hasn't been a new country since Norway in the late 80's, and they are only using 11 out of a possible 19 total pads for countries (although International Gateway took one, so I guess they could add up to 7 more countries for a total of 18.) Also, some of the existing countries, specifically those in the back closest to the US pavilion, could use attractions as well.
Upon seeing Epcot map and from satellite google, Where would they have the room to put 7 more? They could know down that africa outpost but that's about it.


WS was designed with 19 plots for countries, American Adventure in the middle with nine on each side. They are designed so that the countries can be right next to each other, but other than the trilogy of Italy-US-Japan, and Norway being right next to China, all the others basically use every other plot.

So, starting with Mexico as "Plot 1", it currently looks like this:

Plot 1 - Mexico
Plot 2 - vacant
Plot 3 - Norway
Plot 4 - China
Plot 5 - Outpost (not really a full country/pavillion)
Plot 6 - vacant
Plot 7 - Germany
Plot 8 - vacant*
Plot 9 - Italy
Plot 10 - American Adventure
Plot 11 - Japan
Plot 12 - vacant
Plot 13 - Morocco
Plot 14 - vacant
Plot 15 - France
Plot 16 - International Gateway
Plot 17 - United Kingdom
Plot 18 - currently occupied by "temporary" Millenium Pavillion, now used only for special events
Plot 19 - Canada

* the vacant Plot 8 was for a long time the rumored location of a Switzerland pavillion that was never built and would have featured a Matterhorn Bobsled ride. This would have fit perfectly between Germany and Italy since all three countries are Alpine countries and border each other in real life. The entrance of this plot is currently being utilized by the Germany miniature train garden.

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Last edited by David S. on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:14 pm 
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Kram Nebuer wrote:
David S. wrote:
However, the rest of the expansion seems like a missed opportunity to add some of those other rides - classics like Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Alice In Wonderland, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (which we ONCE had), Casey Jr. Circus Train, Storybook Land Canal Boats, and the Matterhorn Bobsleds will still be missing from the MK.


As much as I would love to see a salute to these classic Disney animated films in Walt Disney World, I really would hate to see a clone of Disneyland's Fantasyland in Florida. I just recently went to Disneyland this past summer after nearly a decade's worth of summers visiting Disneyland and part of the charm and excitement of visiting Disneyland was that even though those attractions were from the original park opening and the 1983 renovation, they were completely refreshing and new to me because this was something you could not (or no longer could not in regards to Toad) find in WDW. I think it would be a grave mistake on Disney's part to clone their theme parks and plop them all over the globe. Though one could argue that essentially all the Disneylands and the Magic Kingdoms are essentially the same, they each have their own unique twists and differences that make them special. I would love for Phantom Manor and the dueling pirates in DL Paris to be in WDW's Haunted Mansion and Pirates, but then that takes away the specialness of not only Paris, but the original versions at WDW and DL. Though it may be easier for East Coast guests to journey to Florida rather than California had these attractions been built in WDW, the fact that there are differences makes each park more special and unique. Copying them would just make the Disney theme parks a chain of establishments like McDonald's.


I am sorry Kram, if you misunderstood me, but I didn't mean to imply that I wanted the MK Fantasyland to be a direct clone of DL - just that with all the space the expansion was taking up, it would be nice to finally get at least some of the DL classics we are missing, like the ones mentioned above. Not having some of these rides makes the MK feel lacking (to me) in Fantasyland, just as most people would find the MK missing something "essential" if there was no Pirates, Mansion, or Jungle Cruise. My fave dark rides have always been the short but sweet Fantasyland dark rides, so not having Pinocchio, for example, makes me feel like an "essential classic" is missing. After all, the only other "Castle Park" missing this ride is Hong Kong DL, but they are missing at least half the established essential "castle park" classics anyway!

But hey, the new rides wouldn't have to just be DL "clones". I'd be totally for more new ones as well - Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty, Mary Poppins, etc. All I meant was that by losing Toontown, I would rather it be for more than just one new ride, especially when the Mermaid ride isn't even taking up Toontown's real estate!



Quote:

Okay, now I'm agreeing with you! I totally am going to miss Toontown. It really is such a charming area with a lot of witty, comical, and creative visual elements that really enhance the environment at Magic Kingdom. MK is all about putting you in these historical, exotic and enchanted environments and I feel that Toontown does it really really well. It's easy to believe that the classic cartoon characters and their homes can exist among us and children can visit the world' most famous mice in their own homes. I'm hoping that whatever new home for Minnie and Mickey that's apparently moving to the front of the park will do justice to their own homes in Toontown Fair/Mickey's Starland/Birthdayland. Besides the Jungle Cruise, Mickey's Starland was one of my favorite things about my first trip to Disney World.

Though I'm going to miss Toontown, I really am excited for a Dumbo area! Dumbo's usually on the top of my list of favorite DAC's and I'm so glad that FINALLY after over 50 years, a Disney theme park will have a Dumbo Circus-esque attraction.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates Toontown! There is so much charm and detail, so many nice little gags, that reward those who actually take the time to look! One of my favorites is the series of pictures in Mickey's living room that tell the story of a fishing trip that didn't turn out so well for poor Donald. In the final picture, Mickey (being Mickey) has the biggest fish, Goofy has some smaller ones, and the shark is posing along with Mickey and Goofy, because he caught Donald! And not only that, he stole poor Donald's hat! The scowl on Donald's face at that moment is pricelessly funny!

Then there's the ping-pong tournament in the next room, where Mickey and Donald's paddles are shaped like them! And if you look closely at the shelves, Goofy has his own Goof-shaped paddle.

Then there's Minnie's magazine covers, Toon radio, phone messages, interactive kitchen, and unique flowers in her house, and the lovable anamatronic chickens who get scared everytime Goofy's "Multiflex Octoplane" crashes through his barn.

These are but a few examples of the oodles of charm and details found throughout Toontown.

I will agree that Dumbo is also my fave DAC! ;) So it's nice to see him get some love - I just wish it wasn't at the expense of something already dear to me like most WDW expansions always seem to be. Hopefully it will be built in such a way that they can add the charming Casey Jr. Circus Train/Storybookland attractions at a later time, but I have a hunch they will simply retheme Barnstormer to Casey Jr.

And like I said earlier, I will dearly miss being able to ride Dumbo during the fireworks from his original location directly behind the castle, where you feel completely surrounded by the fireworks going off all around you. Hopefully the new location will give a decent view, but since it will be so close to the railroad I'm not even sure if they'll be able to keep it open during the show.

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Last edited by David S. on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:21 pm 
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Just to chime in to what David said, I would love to see Disney do a lot more with World Showcase. There are still the old ideas that Disney had planned for World Showcase but never built - the Rhine River Cruise in Germany, Thames River Cruise and the Charles Dickens AA show in UK, and the original plans for Israel, United Arab Emirates, Equatorial Africa, and Russia pavilions which were all set to open with the park opening, but cut them due to budget cuts at the last minute. Disney has also looked into ideas into adding Venezuela, Costa Rica, and Spain pavilions, but nothing ever happened with them either due to lack of funding.

Super Aurora wrote:
I have two concerning question for Princephillip fan.

1. After watching video and hearing more in-depth news on the fantasyland, Did they ever say or confirm about the news you said about that Alice in Wonderland coster?

2. You also said after the new fantasyland being built, they will renovate the facade of the current fantasyland (ala getting rid of those tournament tents and shit). Is this still true and will happen?


On the blueprints it's labeled as Chershire Coaster, so it was originally obviously meant to have some kind of Alice theming, but since Dumbo appears to be a majority of the area, I wouldn't be surprised if they retheme to Casey Jr. Either way, I'm happy that the Barnstormer is staying in some way.

And the renovation of the current rides is the rumor consesus now. Disney hasn't confirmed anything yet definitely, but from I've heard people say from in Disney, it's rumored they want to open the new FL up so they can close the other half of Fantasyland to renovate it. For now it's just a rumor, but I'm really hoping it comes true. Snow White's Scary Adventures and Peter Pan's Flight are both overdue in terms of major rehabs both inside and out.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:56 pm 
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I just realized something...

What about Snow White? I am surprised they left Snow White out of the new Fantasy Land. I mean, not only is she Disney's first princess her story has enough elements to turn into interactive attractions. Like exploring and cleaning the Dwarf's house, checking out the Queen's castle, seeing the scary dungeons and even interacting with the Mirror!

Again, odd thing they left Snow White out.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:45 pm 
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I think they probably left Snow White simply because she has her own dark ride attraction, Snow White's Scary Adventures, where you ride through the Queen's dungeons, the dark forest, the dwarfs cottage, the diamond mines, the cliffs, and the Prince's castle. I can see why they figured not bothering to add a land all to her as it might seem repetitive. Plus I think it would be a tad odd to have a completely removed Snow White area a good few hundred feet away from her own ride. :p

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:48 pm 
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pap64 wrote:
I just realized something...

What about Snow White? I am surprised they left Snow White out of the new Fantasy Land. I mean, not only is she Disney's first princess her story has enough elements to turn into interactive attractions. Like exploring and cleaning the Dwarf's house, checking out the Queen's castle, seeing the scary dungeons and even interacting with the Mirror!

Again, odd thing they left Snow White out.


Snow White got her own ride already in the current Fantasyland.
Also the ride of hers isn't that far from the castle wall gate that enters into the newer fantasy land.



PrincePhilipFan, Thanks. Though now I have something else to bring up to ask you lol.

Someone on the Youtube comment board (under username: loonercrazy) there said this:
Quote:
The Fantasyland work at the MK isn't nearly the big plans that were originally planned. None of the current buildings will be remodeled. This project is only 1 new ride (which is a smaller version of the Mermaid attraction coming to DCA), 3 princess meet-and-greets in nicely themed cottages, and expanded Dumbo attraction and a new restaurant. Nice additions, but still the MK's Fantasyland still sucks and is getting short-changed overall

Actually disaneynut06 I do know as I know many of the designers working on the project. The original plan for FL in the MK called for a complete remodeling and retheming of all of the pre-existing facades, as well as up to 3 new ride-through attractions. The budget was cut for all of the retheming/remodeling and 2 of the 3 ride-through attractions were cut. What I stated is exactly the reality of what the MK is getting: 3 meet-n-greets, 1 cloned ride, new Dumbo, and new restaurant. Sorry


If this is true, what would the other 2 rides would of been that got axed?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:09 pm 
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There were initially rumors of a Beauty and the Beast dark ride and a Seven Dwarfs Mine-themed coaster. Perhaps they are referring to these?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Thank you pap for letting me knwo about this...

OMG THIS IS AMAZING I AM SO HAPPY IT'S LIKE A WONDERFUL DREAM COME TRUE!!!!

Okay, now I think you all know why I am so happy and excited?

I get to go to Cinderella's beautiful French country chateau, with the pumpkin coach, and see her transform before my very eyes!!!!!!!

But how come no one else has shown any excitement or amazement at seeing Walt Disney's favorite, iconic animated moment brought to life in real life right front of you?!!

Thanks for the video jpanimation! But did you all hear the people get excited for Fantasyland expanding...and then a lot of voices, mostly male, groan at the idea of the expansion of princesses?

They didn't light up when anything Cinderella was mentioned, but gradually sounded more excited for Aurora, then really excited for Belle, and really excited for Ariel.

Why is it the majority doesn't seem to care much for Cinderella and her world? :cry:

And the article that PrincePhillipFan (thank you, too!), linked to, just like the guys who groaned at the mention of the princesses in the Fantasyland expansion, that guy said it was all girl-centered?

OKAY, that is the wrong attitude and view! When I first heard this news, I didn't think "girls" or "princesses", I thought FANTASY and great, beloved, iconic Disney CLASSICS coming to life! Movies that have girl and boy characters that either boys or girls can love! With stories that boys and girls all love!

That guy said Walt was male so everything was male centered. Yea, and he had the castles of princesses as the very center of the parks he wanted!!!! He was a male who loved castles, magic, and fantasy, and yes, the princess characters, along with trains and pirates!

Besides, these are very much keeping boys in mind along with girls! Boys get to train as knights, and the Beast and Gaston's places will definately have boys excited. Gaston could show boys (and girls!) how to shoot arrows or have gun-shooting games. But aside from that, as I said, boys can love the magic, beauty, wonder, and good fun of the Disney princesses just as any girl can, as I do!

But jpanimation, you do realize this is not just meet and greet, these are attractions/activities, too! Making a card or baking a cake with the fairies sounds very fun, and seeing Cinderella transform, that could happen in a dark ride, and putting on a show with Belle, wow! It's all fun that is more interactive than rides, actually! Stuff you really get involved in!

But I will admit things are just a little bit too princessy!

Would anyone like to listen to how I think it should be? Well, I'll let you know anyway!:

This is Cinderella's land, as her castle is the hub, so she should get to have her own cool stuff, too. But I admit, she doesn't need it to take up space where something else could go.

I think that Cinderella should have her attraction and meet and greet moved to inside the castle somehow. Isn't Tokyo Disneyland having a Cinderella attraction put in? Or is that only underneath their castle, and Disney World has no room? But if Cinderella's castle could have a ballroom interior, she could transform and dance there!

Then, give Snow White a meet and greet in the forest near Aurora, perhaps where she sang to the animals. But maybe that couldn't work.

Lessen Beauty and the Beast land! It is the biggest one and takes up so much room! Have Belle's cottage be wherever Gaston's tavern is, don't make two seperate sections! Or don't have the cottage at all, let her put on her show and stories inside the Beast's library inside the castle! How on earth does it make sense to go to the Beast's castle by magic mirror, and then walk to his castle later?

With no extra Cinderella, downsizing of Beauty and the Beast, and downsizing of Dumbo (he doesn't need that much of what they planned!), then maybe we could keep Donald's and Mickey's house (Minnie could move in and have her own room), get an Alice ride, a Pinocchio ride, and a better Aladdin ride! And meet and greets right next to their rides, there rides would have facades like their homes.

What do you think?

BUT I obviously, actually secretly wish to keep things as they are, because I love all these fairy tales and want to see them come to life as big and full as possible, especially my favorite, Cinderella!

But seriously, this is like a dream come true, our favorite films brought to life, so it's like we can really enter their worlds, their magic!

Only thing left is to make Cinderella's castle resemble the one in the film more...!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Duster: I blame Disney Marketing. Before the whole Disney Princess merchandise boom the princesses were universal. I recall many boys confessing they had crushes on Ariel, Belle, Cinderella and watching the movies again and again. But now with the merchandising being so girl centric the characters are now considered girls only, hence why males feel "left out". It doesn't help that Disney heavily marketed pirates towards boy, making the divide even larger.

It's like how when Disney marketed Winnie the Pooh towards toddlers everyone thought the series was only for little kids, even though the stories were universal and had appeal towards adult due to its childhood nostalgia appeal.

But still, I see a lot of boys run up to the princesses and take pictures with them and interact with them despite the fact that "it's for girls" and you know...girls have cooties :p .

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Thanks for the comforting words on how boys really treat the princesses despite what people writing articles think.

I think it's marketing, too, but it didn't help that the guy doing the presentation said "meet your favorite princesses" instead of "meet/visit your favorite fantasy/fairy tale characters".

I changed my Snow White idea to just renovating the dark ride to look more like a complete castle so you can meet and greet Snow White and her friends (and enemies!) there. If the ride's getting re-done anyway...

I also want to ask why you asked about Snow White but not Jasmine, or Aladdin. Isn't Aladdin your favorite? Though Aladdin could also be in Adventureland, Fantasy land is the best, most fitting place, he really should be there. I guess Jasmine isn't the lead of her film, but it's about the whole film, not one character, as all these mini-lands should be viewed.

I think the Aladdin carpet right should be changed into a roller coaster inside the Cave of Wonders, with a facade like the Sultan's palace to meet and greet Aladdin, Jasmine, the Genie, Jafar, etc.

Also, you should get to talk to their animal friends, either with the living character thing, or animatronic puppets with people somehow doing their voices and movements, in a corner with Jaq and Gus, in a bowl or in the water for Flounder and Sebastian, and I'm sure the Enchanted Objects will be in the dining experience. Boys would especially like getting to talk to the animals who are usually male.

The Princes should also be about, if they aren't already. Prince Charming from Cinderella could talk about hunting since that was once considered for his character by Walt, but he never kills the animals, only chases them and plays with them, as was considered by Walt. Phillip could like scavenger treasure hunting like once considered for his film, and swordfighting and battling dragons! Maybe the knight-training should be at Aurora's cottage, and some kind of animal catching done in the garden at Cinderella's chateau? Snow White's Prince could like hunting or searching for far off places. Yes, Aladdin already likes traveling and looking for treasure. Eric loves sailing. Beast loved reading, or just spending time with Belle, but he could love reading himself now, and maybe also putting on plays or shows.

Well...just some more ideas if anyone wants to let me know what they think of 'em.

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Last edited by Disney Duster on Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:32 pm 
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I mentioned Snow White first because bit struck me as odd that the first Disney Princess ever didn't get a detailed land like the rest of the girls did.

As for Aladdin, yeah I completely forgot about his story. The story DOES fit Fantasyland well. In fact, on the storybook ride in Disneyland California they have the Sultan's palace complete with the genie's lamp as well as A whole new world playing as you pass it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:18 pm 
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Moderator! Could you perhaps take the posts about World Showcase and make a new thread?? There seems to be a lot of interesting information and a discussion I'd love to continue, but it essentially doesn't belong in this topic.

David S. wrote:
I am sorry Kram, if you misunderstood me, but I didn't mean to imply that I wanted the MK Fantasyland to be a direct clone of DL - just that with all the space the expansion was taking up, it would be nice to finally get at least some of the DL classics we are missing, like the ones mentioned above. Not having some of these rides makes the MK feel lacking (to me) in Fantasyland, just as most people would find the MK missing something "essential" if there was no Pirates, Mansion, or Jungle Cruise. My fave dark rides have always been the short but sweet Fantasyland dark rides, so not having Pinocchio, for example, makes me feel like an "essential classic" is missing. After all, the only other "Castle Park" missing this ride is Hong Kong DL, but they are missing at least half the established essential "castle park" classics anyway!

But hey, the new rides wouldn't have to just be DL "clones". I'd be totally for more new ones as well - Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty, Mary Poppins, etc. All I meant was that by losing Toontown, I would rather it be for more than just one new ride, especially when the Mermaid ride isn't even taking up Toontown's real estate!


Aw, I'm sorry, David S. I guess I assumed too quickly, haha! I totally get what you mean now. I definitely see how some signature Fantasyland rides are missing from MK that should be there, but at least Dumbo, the Carousel, the Mad Tea Party, Snow White, Peter Pan, and small world are all present. I think if any of those were missing, Fantasyland would definitely be incomplete. And I would love to see Mr. Toad or some sort of Storybookland area to come to MK FL. But then again the new expansion is kind of like Storybookland on steroids, lol! It would be nice though if Disney included more than just Princess fairy tales in the expansion meet-and-greets. Geppetto's toy shop with Pinnochio, Geppetto, and Blue Fairy meet-n-greets would be awesome! Sorry to be so random, just thinking of random things now that I thought of a giant Storybookland :lol:...and yes, HK DL is totaly lacking in a lot!! But the news of the new mini-lands they're building for the park is certainly rectifying that.

It's funny that you mentioned Mary Poppins dark rides. I remember on one of the Disneyland treasure DVDs, Tony Baxter spoke about his "portfolio/resume" for being an Imagineer and it was for a Mary Poppins dark ride. I wonder if they ever considered making that a reality for the Fantasyland expansion.

Also, thank you for all the insight about Toontown! I haven't been inside Mickey and Minnie's houses for a long time and I definitely want to go back and explore before their neighborhood is torn down. :(

Yeah, it looks like the Barnstormer will probably end up being Casey Jr. sooner or later, but a Chesire Cat coaster would be nice to add more Wonderland elements to Fantasyland. It would be cool if they added another train to the WDW Railroad line and had Casey Jr. be among the larger trains and circle the park. From the concept art, the train station looks a lot like the Florida train station seen in the movie.

Disney Duster wrote:
This is Cinderella's land, as her castle is the hub, so she should get to have her own cool stuff, too. But I admit, she doesn't need it to take up space where something else could go.

I think that Cinderella should have her attraction and meet and greet moved to inside the castle somehow. Isn't Tokyo Disneyland having a Cinderella attraction put in? Or is that only underneath their castle, and Disney World has no room? But if Cinderella's castle could have a ballroom interior, she could transform and dance there!

Then, give Snow White a meet and greet in the forest near Aurora, perhaps where she sang to the animals. But maybe that couldn't work.

Lessen Beauty and the Beast land! It is the biggest one and takes up so much room! Have Belle's cottage be wherever Gaston's tavern is, don't make two seperate sections! Or don't have the cottage at all, let her put on her show and stories inside the Beast's library inside the castle! How on earth does it make sense to go to the Beast's castle by magic mirror, and then walk to his castle later?

With no extra Cinderella, downsizing of Beauty and the Beast, and downsizing of Dumbo (he doesn't need that much of what they planned!), then maybe we could keep Donald's and Mickey's house (Minnie could move in and have her own room), get an Alice ride, a Pinocchio ride, and a better Aladdin ride! And meet and greets right next to their rides, there rides would have facades like their homes.

What do you think?


Disney Duster, I simply must applaud you for your excitement and giddiness for the new Fantasyland expansion! It's very inspiring and makes me appreciate the expansion more than I already have. :)

I like the idea of moving the Cinderella meet-n-greet into the castle, but as you said, WDW's castle has no room with all the Cinderella things already in there (the Royal Table, the suite, and the Bootique) and not much room underground because of the Utilidor. I think the Tokyo and Paris castles were slightly raised for the underground dragon's lair. Speaking of the new inside of Cinderella Castle at Tokyo Disneyland, there is indeed a Cinderella ballroom being made: http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... 306#453306

I like the idea of putting Snow White meet-n-greet in the forest with Aurora. I think it would be a lot more fitting to have the Seven Dwarfs' Cottage and the Woodcutter's cottage in a nice Germanic fairy tale forest area. Both Snow White and the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty are based on the Brothers Grimm versions of the tales (even though the SB credits say it's Perrault). Also, the setting of SW and SB are a lot more similar than Cinderella and SB, and most people say Sleeping Beauty (the movie) was just a redo of Snow White with different characters. Besides, you can already meet-n-greet Cinderella in about 3 character meals and other things; Walt's original princess and most expecially the seven dwarfs, who you rarely ever get to meet and greet if at all, need a "home" to have meet-n-greets. Overall, I strongly support a fairy tale forest of SW and SB rather than Cinderella. The more I think about it, Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast are similar in setting and time period as opposed to SW and SB, the two latter which are similar in setting and time period. Ahh, that's a different discussion. I shall stop now, hehe.

I am very happy with the size of Beauty and the Beast's land considering the 3 different settings Disney chose to build, though I do understand how the building of this costs the loss of the original characters' homes. As much as I would love to keep the Toontown homes in the new Fantasyland expansion, they don't really match the fairy tale theme of the new areas and Fantasyland itself. The toons are more modernized, but still lovable characters. Come to think of it, Dumbo doesn't really match either. If I had my way, I would not build Pixie Hollow at all and keep Dumbo's Circus and reaarrange Toontown. It could be like Dumbo's travelling circus came to visit Toontown and you can visit the Toon's homes and then visit Dumbo's circus "while it's in town."

Yes, all of our ideas are much better. Okay guys, I'm going to go back to school for design and become an Imagineer and make sure these changes happen. :lol: I wish...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:26 pm 
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pap64 wrote:
Duster: I blame Disney Marketing. Before the whole Disney Princess merchandise boom the princesses were universal. I recall many boys confessing they had crushes on Ariel, Belle, Cinderella and watching the movies again and again. But now with the merchandising being so girl centric the characters are now considered girls only, hence why males feel "left out". It doesn't help that Disney heavily marketed pirates towards boy, making the divide even larger.

It's like how when Disney marketed Winnie the Pooh towards toddlers everyone thought the series was only for little kids, even though the stories were universal and had appeal towards adult due to its childhood nostalgia appeal.


I definitely agree. The marketing of the franchises definitely segregated the different Disney properties between boys and girls. Even with the Disney Channels, Disney Channel has definitely become more tweenage girl oriented and Disney XD more for tweenage boys. It's a shame that they can't mix the programs and make it a family channel again so either gender doesn't have to be ashamed or embarrassed for watching the apparent other genders' Disney franchises.

I used to hate Pooh because of the Disney's super marketing of him and his 100 Acre Wood pals. Just ask Escapay. I refused to have anything to do with Pooh and I hated his world in Kingdom Hearts. I know, it was stupid of me to hate something because of over marketing, but now I finally got the original Pooh on DVD and I love it! And I just played Kingdom Hearts II the other day and played Pooh's land (which was much better in KHII than KHI). Sorry...off topic!! Back to Fantasyland...

Disney Duster wrote:
The Princes should also be about, if they aren't already. Prince Charming from Cinderella could talk about hunting since that was once considered for his character by Walt, but he never kills the animals, only chases them and plays with them, as was considered by Walt. Phillip could like scavenger treasure hunting like once considered for his film, and swordfighting and battling dragons! Maybe the knight-training should be at Aurora's cottage, and some kind of animal catching done in the garden at Cinderella's chateau? Snow White's Prince could like hunting or searching for far off places. Yes, Aladdin already likes traveling and looking for treasure. Eric loves sailing. Beast loved reading, or just spending time with Belle, but he could love reading himself now, and maybe also putting on plays or shows.

Well...just some more ideas if anyone wants to let me know what they think of 'em.


I sincerely hope the Princes have a bigger role and presence in the park now that their storybook lands are being created. I think a Prince Phillip scavenger hunt would be great!! It would be awesome if the Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty movie characters interacted with each other. While some guests are baking a cake/making cards for Aurora or dancing with Cinderella, the other half could go on adventures with Prince Charming and Prince Phillip. Then they can switch and maximize the amount of guests experiencing the new land.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Kram Nebuer wrote:
Geppetto's toy shop with Pinnochio, Geppetto, and Blue Fairy meet-n-greets would be awesome!



Classic. Period.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:30 am 
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Holy information, Batman! I haven't been keeping up with this thread in the past day or two, but Aladdin isn't making way for Dumbo:

http://progresscityusa.com/2009/09/14/d ... =1680x1050
(via disneyreport.com)

Jacobson confirmed that the Flying Carpets of Aladdin will remain in Adventureland, and not converted to the second Dumbo spinner as rumored.

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