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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 pm 
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Walt Disney Treasure

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Pluto Region1 wrote:
I'm sorry but this I find really offensive!

First of all, he is really blaming Maltin for the quality and to blame Maltin is preposterous. He is thinking if he can shame Maltin, then maybe Maltin can twist Disney's arm, but is this the right thing to do to Leonard Maltin? I don't have a problem with asking Disney what happened with the quality on these tins, but holding Maltin responsible because he is the spokesman/narrator is ridiculous!

What is even more egregious is that he has used email communications from THIS WEBSITE for this post. Granted I'm new here and I don't know who Al Lutz of Mice.com is. But I am assuming that Al Lutz is not TM2-Megatron, which is who Maltin wrote the email to. There are 2 issues here - first TM2 needs to get permission from Maltin to post his response here at UD (I assumed TM2 did that). Second, if Mice.com wants to re-post the response, they need to secure permission from Leonard Maltin himself. If the okay was given then please excuse my outrage.

If no permission was granted to re-post the email at Mice.com, then it is really an outrage. This guy has no right to go and "lift" a personal communication posted here and put it up on his website for propaganda purposes. This is bad publicity for this website! If I was Maltin and I saw my email posted now over at this other website, I would be pretty pissed off at UD.

He's using us (UD Forum/website) to beat Maltin over the head. it makes the website and all of us look bad.... :x


Even though I'm not a member of Mice Age, I think I should somewhat defend them, as I always read their articles and find them informative!

For one, it might be me, but I don't think he is really blaming Maltin, he even said:

Quote:
Somehow, somewhere and somehow you, or the people you work with at Walt Disney Home Video,


so as you can see, I don't think Al Lutz is really blaming Leonard, he is mainly just whining to him like all of us have been doing and since Maltin is the creator of the "Treasure" series, it would make sense that most of the feedback goes to him.

Mice Age is certainly not the first website to link to an article from UD I can tell you that. This site has been mentioned on several different sites dozens of times. Same can be referred to almost every single Disney site. I've often linked articles from Mice Age ALL the time(go the the theme park thread) so I don't think it's a crime that he uses us as information.

TM2-Megatron may have sent the email as private, but he has posted it to a public site in which anybody can read so the messeage can not be considered a "private" message anymore so it doesn't seem at all bad that he has quoted it IMO.

As for the article, I liked it only because it gave me new information on the "Disneyland" treasure and it also linked to other links that I haven't seen before.

I didn't think it was "excellent" so I'm sorry if you(or anyone else) found it offensive that I said that, but I found it interesting enough to share.

Now while I don't care for the article that much either because it's basically more whining at Disney, which Disney has gotten enough of, however when you think about it, Mice Age isn't doing much we haven't already done ourselves.


Last edited by Timon/Pumbaa fan on Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:50 pm 
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Platinum Edition
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I suppose it's about time for me to stop lurking here and post again. Thanks again to the compliments on the Donald review. Clearly (to those who've read my review), I fall somewhere in the middle here. Many of this set's shorts don't look as good as some shorts from the past have, but they don't look bad by any means (with a couple of exceptions). Disney could have done better, but they could also have done worse and I don't think there's need for hysterics (that's not to say that most people are engaging in those) nor need for blind defense. Either way, though, it's a little silly to hold Leonard Maltin accountable for anyone's displeasure. I guess I can't help but feel a little bad for Leonard, who obviously puts a lot of care into this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:32 am 
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Timon/Pumba fan wrote:

so as you can see, I don't think Al Lutz is really blaming Leonard,


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:roll: You are right he really isn't trying to blame Leonard.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:41 am 
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Quote:
There are 2 issues here - first TM2 needs to get permission from Maltin to post his response here at UD (I assumed TM2 did that). Second, if Mice.com wants to re-post the response, they need to secure permission from Leonard Maltin himself.


I identified myself as a member of UD in my original e-mail to Mr. Maltin, so it's likely he knew I'd post it for you guys to read if I got a response. However, I didn't explicitly ask, mostly because many UD forum members have posted e-mails they've received from him in the past (and the text of those doesn't contain an affirmation of their right to post the response here), so I figured it was okay.

As for that article, I do agree he seems to be too hard on Leonard Maltin; particularly given the fact he later advises people to be polite if they e-mail him to comment about Wave 5. However, his open suggestion to Disney of a no-cost disc replacement program certainly has merit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:30 am 
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I'm pretty sure you're not the only one who got that response (or something quite like it) from Mr. Maltin, TM2, unless yours is the one I've seen posted at other forums. But in any event, Maltin knows how things work and he wouldn't be saying anything to an unknown e-mail address that he didn't stand behind or expect to be quoted elsewhere. Same thing with the interview response that was quoted in the article.

Personally, I think it's silly and misguided to direct all gripes with the Treasures onto Maltin. Yes, he is one of the people with the greatest amount of influence on the series, but it's not as if he doesn't want things presented in the best possible fashion - the line was born out of his desire to have high quality versions of these shorts and shows. That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with demanding standards be upheld in video quality, completeness of programs/shorts, and so on. Packaging issues seem far less problematic but there's no doubt that collectability has always been an aspect of the series and if it weren't, they'd simply be released in standard keepcases. It's worth nothing that this is another area where Maltin has probably no say in as far as the particulars go.

I found that Mice Age editorial to be more than a little extreme, but some people apparently find the drop-off in quality more troubling than the good the Treasures line does in uncovering these films that are not being aired and predominantly are otherwise unavailable on DVD. Whether or not I agree with the fashion it's being done or would echo the claims being made, I think that airing grievances is the best way to let Disney know of disappointments. Maltin said so himself and there's little reason to make him out to be a bad guy or a hypocrite.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:54 am 
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Special Edition
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Tannerman wrote:
Wave 1 had 3 sets that were "edited for DVD" (...)

Silly Symphonies
Three Little Pigs
There were four edited versions of the Three Little Pigs. These included (1) the original uncensored short, (2) the short censored with the animation changed regarding the Big Bad Wolf's Jewish caricature mask, (3) the short censored with the original animation intact but the Big Bad Wolf's dialogue changed from a Jewish to non-Jewish tone, and (4) the short censored with both the animation changed and the soundtrack changed. This final version is featured on the DVD.


The PAL disc released in UK/Australia etc has version 3.

Did Version 2 actually exist? I thought they changed the audio track in the late 30s/early 40s and the accompanying vision some time after that.

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 Post subject: Of Mice And Men
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:14 am 
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MK Sharp, the last time i saw this mentioned was in this thread of which i'm pointing the <a href="http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57212&highlight=concuring#57212">post</a> where mvealf gave a link of a source of info.

There are also other comments related to Treasure quality issues on that thread. It's all not so B/W. I happen to like the Technicolor-like colors seen of the "bad" Donald screen capture shown on the MaceWindu i mean Mice Age link.. Who knows for example if any currently scannable available element of that short has that good bright yellow for example. Or if it has to go though mayor extensive repairs to get it up and running. etc etc.


Anyway, of course Leonard is not the one to point fingers at, I'm sure he does everything in his knowledge and position to insure the Treasures are great as they can be. But that doesn't mean he has control of every aspect of the production of them as he's not a one man Disney Company. In any case he has pledged in his e-mail to look into the matter and use his influence and counsel to hopefully ensure best results in the future.


It's not as if he gets to take home $1,500/hour 1" open reel HD Digital Master copies made from negatives of the shorts to play in a Sony HDD-1000 while the rest of the world only gets the plain video DVDs, you know...

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 Post subject: Re: Of Mice And Men
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:56 pm 
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Walt Disney Treasure

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deathie mouse wrote:
Anyway, of course Leonard is not the one to point fingers at, I'm sure he does everything in his knowledge and position to insure the Treasures are great as they can be. But that doesn't mean he has control of every aspect of the production of them as he's not a one man Disney Company.


I completely agree! However nobody else at Disney has taken claim of the treasures, nor has anyone else at Disney put out there email to the public so that's why he is getting all the complaints.

Again I don't think these people are blaming Leonard, they're simply giving him feedback and they want Leonard to try to connect with Disney and "fix" these treasures, which is what other people have already tried to do.

Of course, even though I don't have these treasures yet, I think all of this is blown out of proportion as is just a few scenes on several of the shorts. And do we really need to make such huge complaints just to fix something that doesn't terribly need to be fixed?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:05 pm 
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Special Edition
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Timon/Pumba fan,

I will say I was disappointed by the quality of the last Treasure as compared to past offerings but a simple complaint to the Disney corporation and some internet whining is all that is needed. Hopefully this sends a signal for better care for future Treasures releases but no need to demonize Disney here. Overall the Treasures, especially the Rareties, are still worth getting.

This is nowhere equal to the WB:
1) Releasing Tom & Jerry with the "uncut" Mammy Two shoes
2) Not releasing a set of the master's MGM 'toons, Tex Avery.
3) Columbia refusing to release a decent DVD with Gerald McBoing Boing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:18 pm 
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Special Edition

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Posts: 391
I agree it’s unfair to bash Maltin just because he is the public face behind the treasures. It’s not his fault Disney sucks. We should be nicer to him cause he doesn’t have to answer our emails.

As for Disney offering replacement discs, something tells me I shouldn't hold my breath :roll:

Amazing how the quality difference is so obvious. Just use any regular TV, play a war short and then play a normal short. You can easily tell.

MK Sharp wrote:
The PAL disc released in UK/Australia etc has version 3.


He mentions that in the R2 insert.


Last edited by Class316 on Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Pelican and the Snipe
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:36 pm 
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Gold Collection

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:18 pm
Posts: 137
I noticed while watching "The Pelican and the Snipe" last night that it looked like some digital processing had rmoved the lines from teh snipes legs quite often. They almost disappear at times.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:41 pm 
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bmadigan wrote:
I noticed while watching "The Pelican and the Snipe" last night that it looked like some digital processing had rmoved the lines from teh snipes legs quite often. They almost disappear at times.


Could this be the infamous DVNR?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:57 am 
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creid wrote:
2) Not releasing a set of the master's MGM 'toons, Tex Avery.


They have in France. (Admittedly with 2 toon's omitted and a small number of edits for the PC crowd).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:40 am 
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If they'd done new scans of the old negatives things would have been a lot better than these old scans to analog tapes from god knows when. Previous shors have as far as I know been re-scanned and restored. (specks, lines etc removed) These things dosnt bother me all that much. But bleeding colors, dotcrawls etc do! :x

Som of the older silly symphonies and MM bw shorts from vol1 would gain a deal from re scaning. The skeleton dance feels very cropped. It would have been nice with a black frame around all those old shorts imo.

Its like watching shorts on the disney chanel, bonus material on a disney dvd (the donald short on 20.000 leagues dvd) or a bootleg-dvd that uses laserdiscs as source-material.


Last edited by Sethp on Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: DVNR
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:44 am 
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Gold Collection

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I've noticed the same dropouts of linework on "Morris the Midget Moose" and "Lambert the Sheepish Lion". But to be honest, most of the time, these defects are only visible in freeze-frame mode. On the "Pelican and the Snipe", however, there was a problem with the snipes legs almost disappearing at times.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:38 pm 
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Timon/Pumba fan wrote:
Mice Age is certainly not the first website to link to an article from UD I can tell you that. This site has been mentioned on several different sites dozens of times. Same can be referred to almost every single Disney site. I've often linked articles from Mice Age ALL the time(go the the theme park thread) so I don't think it's a crime that he uses us as information.

TM2-Megatron may have sent the email as private, but he has posted it to a public site in which anybody can read so the messeage can not be considered a "private" message anymore so it doesn't seem at all bad that he has quoted it IMO.


Mentioning the website was not the issue I was raising... I agree that posting a link to UD articles is good publicity for the website.....
This is a netiquette issue and a blaming issue. Everyone here including TM2 seems to believe that permission was implicit from Maltin to go ahead and post Maltin's email at UD..... That only puts TM2 in the clear. The other website (Mice) doesn't have the right to re-use it without Maltin's permission, in my opinion. I guess you can argue "public domain" gives him the right.... But last time I checked, it was still not okay to go posting pictures taken from one website up at another without asking permission....

Al's post was very extreme in his laying blame at Maltin's feet; of course we can all see he is trying to use Maltin as a club over Disney's head.

Is it right to blame Maltin?

I guess it is all how you look at how he is going after Maltin. Some don't really see him as blaming Maltin entirely.... But the way I read it, he seems to be placing most of the blame on Maltin by saying, "you said this" and 'you said that..." - As others have noted, it is highly unlikely that Maltin is going to be taking over for Disney quality control or managing the purse strings on the Treasures series anytime soon, so why beat up on Maltin? The anger in that editorial is way over the top and misdirected and I don't think Lutz is an idiot - he's doing this for a reason.... Lutz's real motive for that diatribe was to write a sensationalist article to drum up more readership at his website. He's scoring points off Maltin and that makes Al Lutz not a very nice man and I guess that is why I am really angry. :evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:25 pm 
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First of all, I don't think any netiquette was violated. It's pretty much standard protocol for the Web.

Regarding Lutz's article, I see it as a situation where Maltin is the only person in a position to actually make a stink about the issue. By "calling out" Matlin on it, there's hope that this issue gets more of a hearing at Disney rather than other gripes that might come around. And Lutz provides the "Disney fanboy" audience to get involved with the issue, unlike the "DVD fanboy" folks, who are more technically inclined. Lutz has contact with both, so in effect both groups are motivated to do something about the issue.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:14 am 
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Sethp wrote:
If they'd done new scans of the old negatives things would have been a lot better than these old scans to analog tapes from god knows when. Previous shors have as far as I know been re-scanned and restored. (specks, lines etc removed) These things dosnt bother me all that much. But bleeding colors, dotcrawls etc do!

We don't know anything about the condition of the original negatives. Perhaps they've deteriorated so much since the old scan, that a new scan wouldn't improve anything without some lengthy and costly restoration work.

You might argue that that restoration work is just what the doctor ordered. I agree. But then we're talking budgets and time frames for the Treasures...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:20 am 
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Special Edition

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I guess it is finally time to share my "review" of the DVDs of Wave 5.

My "requirements" for the contents of the Treasures sets are a little different than most Disney fans. In most cases, I have owned the cartoons and TV shows for decades on VHS and I'm mainly just wanting them on DVD with nicer quality picture and sound.

Yes, this Wave was disappointing due to the several shorts not being restored as well as I would like and the Cinemascope shorts not being "real" Cinemascope. But my main "desires" have been met - having them on DVD. I can now delete those worn (and usually much poorer) shorts from my VHS and now list them as to what DVD they are on.

That is my future wish for the Treasures - as many animated shorts as possible. The other Disney TV shows, or short live-action featurettes, are welcome - for historical purposes if there is little entertainment value for me personally - but I'm mainly buying the Treasures sets for the animated shorts.

From the very first Wave 1 of the Treasures, I knew the sets would never have as thorough of a restoration as I would personally like. I was especially disappointed that one of my favorite Silly Symphonies "The Old Mill" was not restored in that set as well as I had hoped. Disney even had a opening page saying it had been restored, but there are still numerous artifacts on the film - especially in the dark scenes. Maybe that is the best Disney was able to do for the time and the money they were willing to spend ... but I'm still disappointed now, four years later. BUT I'm still thrilled to have the short on DVD and it is still restored more than it was on previous video releases and Disney Channel showings.

I enjoyed being able to buy the Spin and Marty serial on DVD, since my VHS of that serial (copied from the Mickey Mouse Club episodes on the Disney Channel in the mid 1980s) was at best only fair picture and sound quality.

I bought the Elfego Baca / Swamp Fox set mainly for historical purposes. I never got that much entertainment from the frontier / early Americana TV anthology shows of the 1950s and 1960s. But I do like owning Walt Disney's host appearances in those shows - his host scenes were often my favorite scenes of those shows.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:49 pm 
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Special Edition

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I searched the site, but didn't notice any comments on any Easter Eggs on this Wave 5. I checked the discs for any possible Easter Eggs, but didn't notice any.

Has anyone noticed any Easter Eggs? Is this something Disney (and other studios) are no longer doing on their DVDs?


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