Wish

[The Disneynerd]

I think the movie will end up grossing around 200-300 Million$, but clearly not 400+.

I won’t let Wish’s failure put me in despair. This can be a learning moment for Disney. All they need to do is learn that people want to see them go back to hand-drawn animation on a bigger scale beyond #OnceUponAStudio, starting with Walt Disney Animation Studios’ Disney+ #ThePrincessAndTheFrog sequel series #Tiana (when it comes out in late 2024 or in 2025) and maybe that #MickeyMouse movie they can put back into production for a theatrical release in 2028 for Mickey’s 100th birthday called #TheSearchForMickeyMouse, which #OnceUponAStudio’s directors/writers, animator Eric Goldberg, and Disney composer/lyricist Richard Sherman (before he passes on) can work on now or after the potential win of #OnceUponAStudio at the Oscars for Best Animated Short this coming Spring.

I also think its a great lesson for Disney, but not because of the animation. The big thing Disney need to get from this is that at the end of the day, STORY matters, its what we all come (back) for. I could look over Wishs Animation Style, but the bland story is what most people including me complain about. I think it would be also cool if Wish was in 2d, but this wouldnt have changed my perception that the story is so soulless. I think you could compare it to Little Mermaid with maybe Princess and the Frog or Aladdin: you can clearly tell that Little Mermaids Animation isnt as clean or polished as the latter 2, you could screenshot them and see how beautiful the artwork was done, thats mostly due to them being made in CAPS and Mermaid being the last which was animated with the cel method thing so the animation doesnt look as sharp and eye pleasing as the other ones (just my opinion and im not saying Mermaids animation is bad, which its not, just saying the other movies animation look a bit better). I could even throw in other movies like Fox and Hound or Robin Hood etc. You could say their animation isnt as detailed or eye pleasing as the newer ones from the 2000s (ESPECIALLY CG animation aged), but their story is what will be timeless at the end, thats what drives me back to watch them again, THATS the thing that will make the movies stand the test of time, including Mermaid and Shrek (2) of course (I Love those movies ). What I wanna say with this is that the animation style shouldnt and wont be the selling point. Im also a fan of classic 2d Animation, and Animation can elevate a story, but if there IS no story, then even the most beautiful animation cant save it. STORY is the heart of every movie, characters and their flaws that fill the story and a great personal lesson, everything Wish doesnt have.
And Im not against CG animation AT ALL! Sometimes you even benefit from it even more than 2d Animation! For example, Miraculous would have been actually 2d (anime), but doing Ladybugs costume in 2d would have been difficult to do in handdrwan because of her dots in her costume, thats the main reason why they switched the series into 3d (would have been more eyepleasing in 2d but its alright) . And Spiderverses Comic book style with those iconic comic dots wouldnt also work in 2d for the same reason. And I think those elements elevate the experience and feel of those movies/ series. With CG you can add details that you cant in 2d, but its only benefitial if the story demands those details.

[Disney Duster]

Ok, so I have stayed out of this thread to avoid spoilers. I will read the whole thread eventually, to see what everyone else has been saying, but here is my thoughts real quick for now:

I went to see Wish Sunday night with two friends. They gave it a 6 out of 10, but I give it an 8 out of 10! I LOVED it! It was magical! The watercolor look of the animation was beautiful! The story and Disney easter eggs were surprising, and the way they resolved the climax so satisfying! The voice acting of Ariana DeBose was so good! You know, when she wasn’t being annoyingly adorkable like in the beginning, lol! I very much liked Asha by the end. The songs were mostly good! Simon, Dario, Valentino, and star were so cute! And I loved the Cinderella references of course! Catch Cinderella’s transformation used on Asha when she became a Fairy Godmother? I guess the only thing is there wasn’t as much emotion as there could have been, but I still loved this movie and will buy it! A great celebration of Disney’s 100th anniversary!

[blackcauldron85]

I thought of another Easter egg today: Moana reference when they're drumming in "Knowing What I Know Now."

Some of these song criticisms of mine I've had from the first listen(s)...I listened to the soundtrack a lot at work today. I absolutely love it, but some lyrics I find strange:

"Welcome to Rosas":
So like

This doesn't bother me too much, she is a teenager, but it still feels slightly off.

"At All Costs":
If someone tried to hurt you, I don't
See how that could happen

I don't know if it's...not bad grammar per se, but worded a bit weird.

"I'm A Star":
But if you just see the mushrooms then you'll understand

Why just the mushrooms?

"This Is The Thanks I Get?!":
I'd give the clothes off Benito's back...
I'd be the first one to volunteer, Henry!
...
Since the day you were born
And the day that we met

I find it weird because who are Benito and Henry, and I guess what does Magnifico offering their services have to do with what he's singing about? I get that he's saying he'd do anything for his kingdom... And for many in the kingdom, they weren't born there...

"Knowing What I Know Now":
Bazeema:
I was sweet but now I’m something else
...
Asha:
But we're something else

Just kind of vague...what else?!

[UmbrellaFish]

"I'm A Star":
But if you just see the mushrooms then you'll understand

Why just the mushrooms?

This also stuck out to me and I wondered if it wasn’t supposed to be a shrooms joke…?

This is one of my favorite songs in the movie, but I also feel like it kind of ends abruptly.

"This Is The Thanks I Get?!":
I'd give the clothes off Benito's back...
I'd be the first one to volunteer, Henry!
...
Since the day you were born
And the day that we met

I find it weird because who are Benito and Henry, and I guess what does Magnifico offering their services have to do with what he's singing about? I get that he's saying he'd do anything for his kingdom... And for many in the kingdom, they weren't born there...

When I first heard this song I imagined Magnifico sang this in front of an audience— either the townspeople or the Teens (I didn’t memorize their names prior to watching the film… actually, I still couldn’t tell you most of their names!), so I thought we’d see Benito and Henry during the song. It’s just as weird as watching “Under the Sea” in the TLM remake and Sebastian spouting off all these super specific lyrics… but it’s not depicted on the screen. I don’t like it.

The one lyric that annoys me every time I hear it is in “I’m a Star” (a song which despite my issues I’ve just written about, I enjoy best out of the soundtrack): “Watch out world here I are.” You can really tell the songwriters are more accustomed to writing pop than musical theatre!

[Elladorine]

The one lyric that annoys me every time I hear it is in “I’m a Star” (a song which despite my issues I’ve just written about, I enjoy best out of the soundtrack): “Watch out world here I are.” You can really tell the songwriters are more accustomed to writing pop than musical theatre!

I immediately thought of Glee.

Hey, you, over there
Keep the "L" up-up in the air
Hey, you, over there
Keep the "L" up, cuz I don't care
You can throw your sticks
And you can throw your stones
Like a rocket, just watch me go
Yeah, L-O-S-E-R
I can only be who I are

[blackcauldron85]

This also stuck out to me and I wondered if it wasn’t supposed to be a shrooms joke…?

Ooooh. I never would have thought of that!

[Sotiris]

Development on “Wish” began in 2018, and Veerasunthorn joined the project as head of story two years later. But after the first internal work-in-progress screening, the film was at an impasse. Star, a character that, as its name suggests, is a celestial body, originally could speak. But a wishing star that provided direct guidance didn’t allow Asha the space to figure out her own journey. Veerasunthorn offered solutions. Lee recalled of that period: “She was the one who said, ‘This is never going to come together if you can’t feel that what we’re ultimately saying is that this is not just about celebrating wishes. This is about really showing the importance of you working hard to make your dreams come true.’”

After that “Wish” screening, Lee — who also served as the film’s co-writer and executive producer — offered Veerasunthorn a directing role alongside Buck in early 2022. It was similar to the transition Lee herself had made on “Frozen,” when she joined Buck as a director midway through that production. For Buck, who made his directorial debut on the 1999 Disney film “Tarzan,” forgoing solo duties again was a welcome reprieve. “These movies are such monsters that, hats off to someone who can do it by themselves. I can’t,” he said, adding that he needs the support. “I love the collaboration.”

Away from the studio, Veerasunthorn and her husband, Ryan Green, whom she met in college and who also works in animation at Disney, share a daughter, Kina, who is 7. When Kina first watched the film’s ending, she was left bawling. Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movi ... thorn.html

[Mooky]

Some of these song criticisms of mine I've had from the first listen(s)...I listened to the soundtrack a lot at work today. I absolutely love it, but some lyrics I find strange:

"This Is The Thanks I Get?!":
I'd give the clothes off Benito's back...
I'd be the first one to volunteer, Henry!

I find it weird because who are Benito and Henry, and I guess what does Magnifico offering their services have to do with what he's singing about? I get that he's saying he'd do anything for his kingdom...

I believe the song is supposed to be understood as Magnifico venting out loud, and "Benito" and "Henry" are supposed to be stand-ins for regular Rosas folk, sort of like a "Tom, Dick & Harry" archetype. Like, "I'd do this and that for any of them, and yet they repay me by questioning my actions". Except he wouldn't, because the lyrics are actually a clever wordplay meant to indicate just how egotistical Magnifico actually is.

- "I'd give the clothes off Benito's back": the idiom is to "give the shirt off one's (own) back", meaning give away everything they possess, and Magnifico would not be giving away his possessions, but "Benito"'s (a regular person's)

- "I'd be the first one to volunteer -- Henry": another wordplay where at first it seems Magnifico volunteers himself for whatever action is required, only for him to yell "Henry" in the end. Because of that addition, that line takes on a whole new meaning -- he's volunteering "Henry" (another regular person) instead of himself.

When Kina first watched the film’s ending, she was left bawling. Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movi ... thorn.html

So I take that as there were actual deaths in the original version, either one of the protagonists' fake-out death (I assume Asha's, and then people's wishes were supposed to bring her back to life), or Magnifico's demise was deemed too scary for kids so he only ends up imprisoned in his staff/mirror.

[Kyle]

Spiderverses Comic book style with those iconic comic dots wouldnt also work in 2d for the same reason.

...what? the comicbook dots would work fine in 2d, its already a 2d effect.

Further test screenings would lead the directors to alter the finale to be less traumatic.
they really need to stop focus grouping the good stuff out of these movies. Stop focus testing things altogether.

[DisneyJedi]

What could have been so traumatic about the finale in the test screening?

[blackcauldron85]

I believe the song is supposed to be understood as Magnifico venting out loud, and "Benito" and "Henry" are supposed to be stand-ins for regular Rosas folk, sort of like a "Tom, Dick & Harry" archetype. Like, "I'd do this and that for any of them, and yet they repay me by questioning my actions". Except he wouldn't, because the lyrics are actually a clever wordplay meant to indicate just how egotistical Magnifico actually is.

- "I'd give the clothes off Benito's back": the idiom is to "give the shirt off one's (own) back", meaning give away everything they possess, and Magnifico would not be giving away his possessions, but "Benito"'s (a regular person's)

- "I'd be the first one to volunteer -- Henry": another wordplay where at first it seems Magnifico volunteers himself for whatever action is required, only for him to yell "Henry" in the end. Because of that addition, that line takes on a whole new meaning -- he's volunteering "Henry" (another regular person) instead of himself.

That makes perfect sense- thank you!!!!

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/24/movi ... thorn.html

So I take that as there were actual deaths in the original version, either one of the protagonists' fake-out death (I assume Asha's, and then people's wishes were supposed to bring her back to life), or Magnifico's demise was deemed too scary for kids so he only ends up imprisoned in his staff/mirror.

My first thought had been when Star is planning on going away, maybe that was too sad? Maybe that's why, when Valentino is sad that Star is leaving, they added that he's not leaving quite yet...?

[carolinakid]

Thank goodness they weren’t involved with Bambi or the other classics where sad things happen. God forbid her seven year old be traumatized!

[Mooky]

That makes perfect sense- thank you!!!!

You're welcome!

[carolinakid]

WDW Pro has an interesting you tube video about several animators coming forward to tell how Wish was taken over by activists who turned it from charming to propaganda.

[megustajake]

I think the movie will end up grossing around 200-300 Million$, but clearly not 400+.

I won’t let Wish’s failure put me in despair. This can be a learning moment for Disney. All they need to do is learn that people want to see them go back to hand-drawn animation on a bigger scale beyond #OnceUponAStudio, starting with Walt Disney Animation Studios’ Disney+ #ThePrincessAndTheFrog sequel series #Tiana (when it comes out in late 2024 or in 2025) and maybe that #MickeyMouse movie they can put back into production for a theatrical release in 2028 for Mickey’s 100th birthday called #TheSearchForMickeyMouse, which #OnceUponAStudio’s directors/writers, animator Eric Goldberg, and Disney composer/lyricist Richard Sherman (before he passes on) can work on now or after the potential win of #OnceUponAStudio at the Oscars for Best Animated Short this coming Spring.

I also think its a great lesson for Disney, but not because of the animation. The big thing Disney need to get from this is that at the end of the day, STORY matters, its what we all come (back) for. I could look over Wishs Animation Style, but the bland story is what most people including me complain about. I think it would be also cool if Wish was in 2d, but this wouldnt have changed my perception that the story is so soulless. I think you could compare it to Little Mermaid with maybe Princess and the Frog or Aladdin: you can clearly tell that Little Mermaids Animation isnt as clean or polished as the latter 2, you could screenshot them and see how beautiful the artwork was done, thats mostly due to them being made in CAPS and Mermaid being the last which was animated with the cel method thing so the animation doesnt look as sharp and eye pleasing as the other ones (just my opinion and im not saying Mermaids animation is bad, which its not, just saying the other movies animation look a bit better). I could even throw in other movies like Fox and Hound or Robin Hood etc. You could say their animation isnt as detailed or eye pleasing as the newer ones from the 2000s (ESPECIALLY CG animation aged), but their story is what will be timeless at the end, thats what drives me back to watch them again, THATS the thing that will make the movies stand the test of time, including Mermaid and Shrek (2) of course (I Love those movies ). What I wanna say with this is that the animation style shouldnt and wont be the selling point. Im also a fan of classic 2d Animation, and Animation can elevate a story, but if there IS no story, then even the most beautiful animation cant save it. STORY is the heart of every movie, characters and their flaws that fill the story and a great personal lesson, everything Wish doesnt have.
And Im not against CG animation AT ALL! Sometimes you even benefit from it even more than 2d Animation! For example, Miraculous would have been actually 2d (anime), but doing Ladybugs costume in 2d would have been difficult to do in handdrwan because of her dots in her costume, thats the main reason why they switched the series into 3d (would have been more eyepleasing in 2d but its alright) . And Spiderverses Comic book style with those iconic comic dots wouldnt also work in 2d for the same reason. And I think those elements elevate the experience and feel of those movies/ series. With CG you can add details that you cant in 2d, but its only benefitial if the story demands those details.

100% !!!

I love and prefer 2D animation, but story is ultimately more important than style. I looked forward to Princess and the Frog for years (and even flew from Minnesota to Los Angeles for its Disneyland premiere) but honestly preferred Tangled because it was a tighter, more coherent story. Frozen had story issues as well, but at least managed to capture a few moments of true Disney magic. I won't beat a dead horse (and I'm not trying to upset anyone who did like Wish), but its story was a mess. Most of Disney's recent releases just don't compare to their classics, especially the Renaissance when Disney was mastering story structure project after project. There are a few exceptions: Zootopia was better than I expected it to be, and I liked Encanto despite internal logic inconsistencies.

I honestly looked forward to Wish because of its style — it looks more like the classics I love, and I was hoping the story would be strong enough to overcome mediocre songs. It wasn't. And I ended up having issues with the way a lot of the characters looked and integrated with their environments, too.

I hope the lesson Disney takes away from this lackluster year is that story should always be king. I read Ed Catmull's "Creativity Inc" and he reiterates that point time and time again.

[bruno_wbt]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

[DisneyJedi]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

That’s the message I’m worried that Disney will get and be all, “Well, I guess you guys don’t want original stories and more stylized animation. So we’ll just pump out more remakes and sequels with standard looking CGI forever.”

[Farerb]

Calling Wish "original" is generous.

[megustajake]

It's clear that people aren't interested in new original stories, they just want remakes and sequels.

Frozen 3 and 4 are going to have a great success...

That’s the message I’m worried that Disney will get and be all, “Well, I guess you guys don’t want original stories and more stylized animation. So we’ll just pump out more remakes and sequels with standard looking CGI forever.”

If that’s the message they take away from this, then they’ll just continue to drive their existing properties into the ground as other animation studios eclipse them.

[megustajake]

WDW Pro has an interesting you tube video about several animators coming forward to tell how Wish was taken over by activists who turned it from charming to propaganda.

What “propaganda” is embedded in Wish? I think the movie is pretty safe overall, though I did like its implication we’re all made of stardust.