God on DVD

[deathie mouse]

For a long time I've wanted to start this topic. Instead of going to the UltimateGod dvd website, i would prefer to discuss it here cus, people here love dvd's, are intelligent, nice, etc, and there seem to be a lot that would enjoy/have some of this movies.
I don't want this to become a conflicting controversial thread where people discuss if God exists or not, or if Its followers are blind misguided sheep or if the non-believers are all gonna burn in hell, cus we know the one true god is Blue-Ray DVD (just kidding!)

That doesn't mean someone like Loomis can't do his caustics comments which I enjoy very much cus they are always full of intelligence and he'll do them anyway , or that Aaron can't say a movie Inspires him, but if i may "impose" one rule is that if you don't believe, please talk about the movies or dvds AS movies or dvds (hey, they can be imagined as them being Science Fiction and be talked about as if talking about the Matrix) instead of talking about wherever they being true or not and saying "this movie sucks cus God doesn't exist and any movie about this is a waste of time", or in the other extreme, if you do believe, please do the same, (talk about the movies or dvds AS movies or dvds) instead of talking about them as the Only Truth and "anybody who doesn't liketh them or believeth in them has no right to even own a DVD player"

Well at least , let's try!

I suppose with the upcoming release of the SE of JC Superstar and Mel Gibson's movie on DVD, there be plenty of fuel errr.. i mean content to discuss AS dvds (i know there was a thread about the Gibson movie, but i want this thread to be about ALL mmm.. how should i put it (making this topic's title along the way) God movies in DVD in all Its various forms. don't have to be Judeo/Christian/Annointed exclusively neither, but i guess most movie DVDs about this are..

If the discussion grows interesting hey even Neo might show up!

We can discuse quality, technical stuff, music, actors, story, costumes, how God has been "interpreted", extras, whatever comes to mind


Since i'm a Widescreen enthusiast, (and maybe that's one reason i like these movies so much i'll start by saying that the two widest DVDs I own and the two widest DVDs there are, are both God movies: Beh-Hur and The Greatest Story Ever Told, 2.75 wide UltraPanavision (Anamorphic lensed 70mm). God is a huge canvas.

(there's only one movie that's wider, 1926's Napoleon, 4.00:1 wide, but mmm I don't think that qualifies as a God movie )

Since they are THE widest dvds, even with 16:9 coding the image ends up pretty small, so i sought out the PAL versions for that extra resolution bump . So in PAL those two 2.75 wide images end up being as sharp as a normal 16:9 NTSC Cinemasope/Panavision 2.40 movie.

Ben Hur's 8 horse chariot race needs the wide wide screen to be truly appreciated (And copied by Lucas on the Phantom Menace, arguablly the best scene in that movie) leaving you breathless with 2000 x 5500 pixel detail and size on the original pressentation (about 320 x 875 in DVD) Impossible to see in pan/scan in which you see only a 3 and half horse chariot race .
And at the end severe Justice.

On the other hand, the DVD transfer is overscanning the original image by 7% (i guess they wanted to offset the diminute size with a little "zoomed- in" image)

(deathie awaits the day a 2000 x 5500 pixel Blue-Ray DVD with 0% overscan shows up)

At that time Hollywood wasn't showing the face of God

but it did in

TGSET (The Greatest Story Ever Told) 16:9 PAL disc also comes with the Pan/Scan on the fly feature so you can watch it 2.75 wide, or 2.06 Pan/Scaned wide Don't know if the NTSC 2 disc Special edition has this feature (i should know, cus i had it, but it was stolen from me by the Wicked Witch of the South) or the new single disc one has it. I like the first part a lot better than the second part, which seems a little rushed and less solid, sadly this might be cus the current "restored" film even tho it's the longest version we've had in years, is still missing about a movie reel or more (20 minutes at least) of footage which was cut from the original roadshow release. The second part looks to me kind of abrupt. Less coherent. Maybe the speech Jesus gave in the Temple of Jerusalem was 20 minutes long?.. he starts to speak to the crowd and a few moments later it's late and he's ending it. Too bad. Part of Max von Sydow as the Voice of God lost. I particulary like the Lazarus scene where he talks directly to the camera (therefore to the viewer) when he says "Do you believe this, Martha? Do you, Mary?" (just imagine how i'd like it if it was 2000 pixels tall and 5500 pixels wide ). The field of lillies looks wonderful.
I also like the slow motion-like effect of Mattheus thinking when he's making the desicion. As if time stopped for a splitsecond.

Maybe the ressurrection part was the one trimmed. That is also wonky.

About this Roadshow cutting, it's sad that epic movies like this one (and not only TGSET, Taylor's Cleopatra, It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World, and even Lynch's Dune) seem that they'll never be seen ever in their full lenghts to make a complete assesement of their Epicness

Hopefully some day somewhere all will show up (when i see the restoration of the 1922 Dracula which was ordered entirely destroyed by Stoker's wife, i have hope)

When You Wish Upon a Star...

[AwallaceUNC]

I think this could be a great topic, provided it doesn't become another theological debate. There are quite a few movies to discuss. Unfortunately, many religious films/DVDs suffer from very limited promotional budgets. That's changed in recent years, and took a dramatic change with The Passion. Following its success, Columbia/Tri-Star took over Cloud Ten Pictures (religious film production company, most notably responsible for the Left Behind movies), which will extend more funding and promotion to them.

My personal religious movie DVD collection isn't very expansive. I have Left Behind: The Movie, Left Behind II: The Tribulation Force, The Omega Code, The Omega Code II: Megiddo, a Michael W. Smith concert DVD (complete with Amy Grant guest appearance), and a few unofficial Amy Grant DVDs. I really want to get The Ten Commandments and a few of the other Bible movies. I'm also looking to get the Ancient Secrets of the Bible DVD box set sometime in the future.

Of these DVDs, the most well-made film is probable The Omega Code 2: Megiddo, which is fairly high-budget with decent acting (even some big names- Peter York, Chad Michael Murray). It's an epic end of the world story, and is leaps ahead of the first film in quality. The idea behind the first was a little more original though (the Bible as a computer code).

The best audio presentation goes to the audio DVDs I currently have. I would say that this will be topped by October's release of Amy Grant's Greatest Hits DVD, but that will consist mostly of her non-Christian songs.

The most high-profile would be Left Behind. The casting for many of the roles was dead-on (especially Kirm Cameron as Buck). The movies, judged as movies alone, aren't all that bad, but they aren't great. They are often overdramatized, and the second one becomes very preachy- something the books avoided for most of the series. The movies only vaguely resemble the books, though, especially the second one. I still can't understand why they chose to break the 2nd book into 2 films- the series will take forever to finish at this rate.

-Aaron

[2099net]

Well, every DVD featuring David Ogden Stiers features God! Yes, especially Teacher's Pet!

Aaron, I'm a little confused by your Passion comment. Isn't The Passion of the Christ a low budget film? About $25m? That's about what a major studio would spend on a poor family comedy. For example, I was surprised, but even Dogville, a film shot in 5 weeks and with minimal sets and props had a budget of $13m (I wonder how much went to Nicole...?)

[AwallaceUNC]

Sorry, that was supposed to say promotional budgets. Up until The Passion, most of these films didn't really get blockbuster-level exposure. Going to edit.

-Aaron

[Loomis]

I'm a little confused as to the general direction of this thread, but I was mentioned so here I go.

My own religious collection is limited, but I still find religious movies fascinating as they cover such a wide range of interpretations
(sorry, I won't start that old chestnut again).

Personal favourite films that involve god include and are in my DVD colllection include:

- Last Temptation of Christ: Many protest this film, but I think they miss the point. It does look at "Jesus the man", but it looks at a man who is tempted by an 'alternate life' by the devil while he is on the cross. He is given a family, a wife and normal life. However, ultimately he rejects that and goes back to the cross to die for our sins. I think that was a powerful message, but most people overlooked it because of all the sex and violence. I also liked this because even Jesus had trouble interpreting what god was trying to tell him, showing his human side.

- Dogma: Another much protested film, but one that is so full of faith it isn't funny. Kevin Smith largely mocks Catholics (because he is one himself), and let's face it - there is plenty to be mocked (I myself grew up as one and now reject the whole thing. In fact, I did from about the age of 10). However, what people overlook is that the film is about "faith" - learning to have it, how it can be lost, and how it can be regained. Probably one of the better religious satires yet.

And Woody Allen always provides some great god gags. Love & Death has some great quotes: "I think, is not to be bitter... if it turns about that there is a god, I don't think that he is evil, I think that the worse thing you could say s that he is, basically, an under-achiever."

And anything with Bill Murray in it is about god.

[AwallaceUNC]

I like the Jay & Silent Bob movies (for lack of a better name at the time), but I didn't find Dogma funny at all.

-Aaron

[Loomis]

I like the Jay & Silent Bob movies (for lack of a better name at the time), but I didn't find Dogma funny at all.

-Aaron

Just out of curiosity - was it the religious content that turned you off, or did you find the film just generally less funny than the others?

Chasing Amy was a hard act to follow, I'll admit, and Dogma is by no means a perfect film. But it is certainly miles ahead of the the final "Askewniverse" film, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back.

[AwallaceUNC]

It was a little bit of both, Loomis. All religious objections aside, I found it to be less funny than the others. Maybe it was just striking a side of humor that isn't as compatible with my own sense of humor (which Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back did the best). I can take a good amount of religious humor, but I do think that it crossed the line a few times, which also made it a little difficult to enjoy.

-Aaron

[Disneykid]

So far my Bible DVD collection only consists of Jesus films (and The Prince of Egypt) simply because I find Biblical films to be the only Christian films I can say are truly good. Although most Christian movies have their hearts in the right place, they tend to have low production values which can be overcomed but aren't thanks to awkward performances and preachy tones. These are the Jesus DVD's I currently have:

Jesus Christ Superstar: I absolutely love this movie. It has a pretty massive cult following, but I still think it to be underrated. This has so much more drama and emotion than other more "serious" Jesus films and has great songs to boot. I'm also in love with this movie's cinematography. Norman Jewison constantly keeps the camera moving and establishes tons of symbolic images and angles that makes this fascinating to watch from a visual standpoint. I'll be upgrading to the SE of this later this month.

Jesus of Nazareth: Although the Passion is now my favorite Jesus film period, I consider Jesus of Nazareth to be the best life of Christ film ever made. This movie has virtually every well-known event recorded in Scripture all brilliantly blended and harmonized together. I love the Shakespearean approach Franco Zefferelli took with this (which isn't surprising since he's known for his Shakespearean adaptations). Although the film's a massive 6.5 hours long, it amazingly never (or at least rarely) drags unlike The Greatest Story Ever Told which is half of this movie's running time. This movie is in DESPERATE need of a restoration, though. The picture quality on the DVD is abysmal with everything you could think of from dust and scratches to heavy grain and fuzzy picture. Here's hoping someone restores this soon.

The Last Temptation of Christ: This is an interesting one. So many Christians loathe this movie, but I found it to be fascinating and well-made (though I admit that after seeing the Passion which is similar in gritty approach that Last Temptation's flaws became a bit more apparent). Do I believe Jesus was like how He was portrayed here? No way, but then again neither does Martin Scorsese by his own admission. I consider this movie to be a "What if?" movie, not something that should be taken as literally as so many people have done. If anything, this movie rings out the loud and clear message that although Jesus may have been reluctant to die upon on the cross, His love for us and for God's will was far stronger than that, and having the movie end with "It is accomplished" is very haunting.

The Miracle Maker: This is quite a handsomely made movie. It felt rather brief, but considering it's a family film, I can understand that. The claymation is some of the best I've ever seen, with some shots nearly passing off as live action. Major kudos to the filmmakers for getting the look of Jesus and the other characters spot on with dark skin and hair. The approach to have Jairus' daughter's illness be the main running plot is unique and gives a fresher spin on the story.

Jesus: I was very impressed by this miniseries, though not surprised at its quality since it's by the same team that's done other Biblical miniseries such as Joseph and Moses. The goal of this movie is to make Jesus more human and approachable than in other depictions, and it mostly works (I say mostly because Jesus has a few nasty attitude problems in a couple of scenes). This also tries to depict everyone else as human with their own flaws, which makes this a very warm and down to earth rendition.

The Gospel of John: I honestly wasn't expecting much from this despite the fact that it was by the same team that brought us Matthew from the Visual Bible series which I had loved. I was shocked to find out how high quality this film was, putting even the excellent Matthew to shame. Everything about this movie screams quality and it's amazing how fresh they managed to make this despite not changing a single WORD of Scripture. There are quite a few moments where you're thinking, "Wow, I never thought of them saying that while doing that" and like the miniseries mentioned above, this movie also has a very warm and natural feel to it.

Other Biblical DVD's I want to add to my collection:
The Ten Commandments: SE
Ben-Hur (though I suspect this will become a 2-disc soon)
King of Kings
The Visual Bible: Matthew
The Passion of the Christ (though I think I'll hold out for the SE rumored to be coming in either December of April).

Ok, wow, that post ended up being A LOT larger than I had originally set out to make.

[Paka]

The only dvd I have that comes close to a religious theme is the Special Edition of Dogma, which I love. It has incredibly caustic humor - so much so that I was genuinely surprised when I found out Smith is a (still-practicing) Catholic. This was back in the days when I didn't know much about the guy, of course.

The other two religious/Christian dvds I'd like to get are the Criterion Collection edition of Life of Brian ("Follow the shoe! No, the sandal! No, the one true path of the gourd!!" ); and the other, coming out at the end of the month, is Jesus: The Complete Story, that BBC documentary that was produced a few years ago that examines the man called Jesus in a wonderfully rational way. The series attempts to peel away the sensationalism of the Biblical stories and presents a down-to-earth study of the man... as just that, a man. The little grain of sand that started the layers of pearly legend.

[deathie mouse]

Loomis says he is confused about the general direction of this topic but he's not


Last Temptation I loved the scene where the apostles are doubting he'll return, or that he is anything he says or they thought he was, and then he shows up with his heart in his hand! very powerful imagery. Those guys musta been scared out of their wits! Serves them right

Actualy i have 2 "issues" with that movie, which have been touched by other members. One is that its Jesus is too confused, or mmm i think another way of putting it is that he's a lttle slow in the head. Neo and specially Mua'dib seem a lot smarter and they aren't God. I mean, he's supposed to be also man, ok, but hey. Maybe the right hand didn't know what the left hand did... He's supposed to be also God. I guess the movie explores the side of "What if an average man suddenly found he's also God, wouldn't he be confused as a deer caught in headlights?" . That, it does well. Now the other thing, is that the execution in the movie about how the temptation is supposed to be so tempting against what he had and was gonna have instead is (in my opinion) rather weak. I know a normal life would be very tempting (hey even I want one too! ) but maybe there shoulda be more emphasis to how the non "tempted" choice was hard and the reason WHY all the sacrifice was worth saying No to the temptation and why he did it (loves us/man's salvation is at stake). Yes, religious people watching the film know it, but i follow Hitchcock's creed that what isn't shown on the film doesn't exist and in the movie even Judas had to come and tell it to him to remind him. (Judas = Morpheus? ) Maybe if you inserted Mel Gibson's The Passion before the devil shows up to offer temptation, the contrast woulda worked better , and mmm maybe showing up the stakes if he was tempted or him knowing them woulda reinforced the struggle. Or maybe just showing Jesus (without Morpheus, err... I mean Judas giving him the red pill) after being shown the temptation, looking right into the eye of the devil and saying, No. Maybe i should make my own movie So i guess my opinion on that particular point is a leeetle bit different than Disneykid's Otherwise I think it's a great film


I liked Dogma too. Funny and interesting. Sorry Aaron. maybe is cus like Loomis, I was introduced to religion tru catholicism and the jokes seem funnier then? *shrug. Most of the catholics I've known tend to be a lot looser about these things and are always making fun of priests and weird stuff (Except for the rabid ones)


I haven't seen the Omega Code ones yet but should. one day one day.. What's exactly Left Behind? something about the people left after the apocalipse or something? So many movies so little time. (IMDB sometimes crashes on me so I avoid it ) And it's so much better to learn about stuff through UD members


JC Superstar I love the soundttrack. It roxccks. I even have the special 20bit or whatever CD from the stage cast, another CD done by modern (indie?) singers (with a woman playing JC), and even one CD I saw in Spain with a spanish cast (some dude called Camilo Sesto, which seems he was as famous as Julio Iglesias over there back then, playing JC ) I have JC-Super* in Laserdisc which i guess means it has the Dolby Surround mix (which seems sounds beter than the CD soundtrack) So I'm wondering how will this sound in 5.1 remix. Ear candy if it's mixed in 70's type Quadrophonic style, so i can play with the channel outputs and listen to music only or individual instruments or a-cappella? (deathie is very carazee) (When I was a projectionist, if you eliminated the 5 channels at the end of Timecop and heard the Smithereen's song, you could hear only the bass line and kick drum on the 0.1 channel ).
Blue Angels thanking Judas. Caiphas (sinhging) telling JC to shut up the crowd and he singing back that if they were shut up, then the rocks would start to sing (and hey it makes me feels they would, and actually makes me wanna see it happen ) Also i think it has one of the best Temple trashing scenes. The one in TGSET for example, he don't seem as angry or exploding in hurt injured rage. (Maybe cus he was busy delivering all that dialogue ) JCSuperstar. very surreal.

haven't seen the "new" version DVD (the one with the beard-less. Is it any good?)

Hey Aaron, has Amy Grant done JCSuperstar as M Magdalane?

The Miracle Maker Wow! i have that film too! not only has real objects animation, the stories/parables are done in 2D animation too, makes it very varied vissually.

Jesus Is that the one where Jesus is playfull with an apostle when they are all walking along a beach?

Jesus of Nazareth Disneykid said the DVD is abyssmal. (I don't have it). Is it the same print/master as the one shown on AE? History?other? channel recently with the host and guests making commentaries when The Passion was about to be exhibited in theaters? I don't remember it looking that bad there, but i wasn't paying attention, cus A: i don't watch TV B: I wanna watch the whlole thing on one sitting without interruptions on DVD Since it's 390 minutes maybe it was compressed too much (or badly) by squeezing it into fewer than nescesary discs/layers? I almost bought this in PAL in my trip, but I already had like 50 DVD's and more CD's and tons of Tintins and Asterix and other books and only one suitcase! (i discarded most of the cases and used a CD wallet- book-thing to manage ) . Wonder if the PAL version is any better? Thanks for the tip cus many times I've seen it in Borders and been "tempted" to buy it
I remember one parable scene (i don't remember which parable it was. The prodigal son? and how to treat your brother or fellow man?) and it's effect on Peter is great

The Gospel of John I have this but haven't watched it yet. Disneykid mentions this being from the same team that made "Matthew from the Visual Bible" Is this a kind of Gospel of Matthew then? or something different? Not to be confused with the Italian "The Gospel Acording to Saint Mattheu" which I've never seen but I've read several times is one of the best/closest adaptations of a Gospel..

The Ten Commandments SE I have the 35th Anniversary Laserdisc of this. I can't never forget how AWESOME the Red Sea parting looked in VistaVision! It was so big it was so huge. A lot of the majestie of these things is diminished on tiny 60" screens (VistaVision is 2000 x 3700 pixels, 1.85) I think The Laserdisc was made from an specially made for TV (so it's contrast was adjusted specially for Telecine equipment) print made from the negative. It looked pretty colorful most of the time but the Red Sea scene was timed incorrectly, being made too light, (if you remember, there's this fog/dark cloud that envelopes the area prior to the parting of the sea, so this scene should look almost like it's nightfall) so part of the "magic", the seams, of the SFX showed in the LD (I of course compensated by making the scene darker again ) Nice and dark the Sea looks threatening/awesome again. I also remeber the Laserdisc being slightly Open Matted (1.66?) showing more than intended, but easily remedied by following the special VistaVision projectionist cue marks still in the print which show where to crop (adjust the Frame Knob in the projector) when showing in 1.66, 1.85 and 2.00 screens. (The correct intended OAR is 1.85 for VistaVision) (xcept i think for the first one, White Christmas, which i think it was 1.66) I also remember the 35th Anniversary got a new sound mix, into Dolby Surround on the Laserdisc and i guess into 6-channel 70mm prints, with newly discovered sound cues, music and instructions. I don't know how the SE DVD is done (ideally it would be from the VistaVision negative itself: less grain, more sharpness and detail, purer hues, more saturated colors ) or if the multi audio abilities of DVD includes what remixes? Original? New one made in the Laserdisc times? Or yet another newer one made for 5.1 DVD?
Anyone know?

Anyway i remember Nefertiti had black hair and pale white skin ( kind of Cleopatra look) on some of the prints i've seen before, while on the Laserdisc she had lighter brownish reddish hair and more pink/normal colorful skin


Ben-Hur Disneykid wrote: "(though I suspect this will become a 2-disc soon)." You mean it'll stop being a flipper? (Mine's a flipper with Heston commentary and other extras) or you mean there's a new Special Edition coming? If it's the second, I would hope for a new tranfer in which they reduced the overscan to 0% (the current transfer looks very good except for that one item)

King of Kings I have this on Laserdisc. I think the sermon in the Mountain is very good Jeffrey Hunter's wide blueyed delivery seems like he's driven to it almost Supernaturally (well it's supposed to ) His red/wine and white clothes against the deep blue sky makes the image very atractive (maybe one day I'll take the section from each movie i like best and make my own "Gospel acording to deathie" edition. theres enough material for that! ). King of Kings was shot on Technirama (Same as Sleeping Beauty) so again, it's a 2000 line movie (2000 x 4500 pixels, 2.25) (All this old Bible spectacle movies seem to been done in the widest largest formats possible! ) My laserdisc was kind of noisy but of course in Technirama it woudn't.

I also remenber some controversy about the last half or actually the last reel being in electronically reprocesed stereo (fake mono) meaning they had misplaced the true Stereo track, since the old VHS tape was in true stereo ALL the way.

Don't know if any of the DVD's fixed that or presented it in true multichannel mix. (the one i saw on my trip wasn't 16:9 coded and said MPEGstereo and didn't buy it. Was apparantly from a batch/box set that included The Fall Of The Roman Empire, El Cid, and another movie i can't recall right now)


Life of Brian i have yet to see that!


Paka said: coming out at the end of the month Jesus: The Complete Story, that BBC documentary that was produced a few years ago that examines the man called Jesus in a wonderfully rational way.

mmm i'm probably confusing it with another title but i think I saw this on my local Borders today. (And there was also another (new to me) multidisc box set of Jesus that looked interesting too, but i had to leave, so only rattled it in my hand and it had a loose disc so I put it back Need to go back later to check things with more time)


2099net wrote: Well, every DVD featuring David Ogden Stiers features God! Yes, especially Teacher's Pet!
Loomis wrote: And anything with Bill Murray in it is about god.



Aaron wrote: I still can't understand why they chose to break the 2nd book into 2 films- the series will take forever to finish at this rate.

For some strange reason that statement reminds me about Pluto and the Treasure Series. I wonder why....





And..., wow, this post ended up being A LOT shorter than I had originally set out to make.


------------------------------------
deathie mouse. more than you want to know

[Disneykid]

haven't seen the "new" version DVD (the one with the beard-less. Is it any good?)

I think it's simply okay. It doesn't hold a candle to the 70's film, in my opinion. Too many of the singing voices are bland and forgettable, and Judas' singing voice is absolutely horrible (and that hits a sore spot with me because Judas' character sings my favorite song in the film: the title song). I do think it's worth seeing once, though since they came up with some clever ideas (like having the temple become a kinky casino when Jesus cleanses it rather than just the usual money changers stuff).

Jesus Is that the one where Jesus is playfull with an apostle when they are all walking along a beach?

Yup, that's the one. It originally aired on CBS back in 2000 and is very well made.

Jesus of Nazareth Disneykid said the DVD is abyssmal. (I don't have it). Is it the same print/master as the one shown on AE? History?other? channel recently with the host and guests making commentaries when The Passion was about to be exhibited in theaters? I don't remember it looking that bad there, but i wasn't paying attention, cus A: i don't watch TV B: I wanna watch the whlole thing on one sitting without interruptions on DVD Since it's 390 minutes maybe it was compressed too much (or badly) by squeezing it into fewer than nescesary discs/layers? I almost bought this in PAL in my trip, but I already had like 50 DVD's and more CD's and tons of Tintins and Asterix and other books and only one suitcase! (i discarded most of the cases and used a CD wallet- book-thing to manage ) . Wonder if the PAL version is any better? Thanks for the tip cus many times I've seen it in Borders and been "tempted" to buy it
I remember one parable scene (i don't remember which parable it was. The prodigal son? and how to treat your brother or fellow man?) and it's effect on Peter is great

The quality of the print used on A&E airings is actually a bit better than the one on DVD. The A&E one is slightly brighter with less print defects. It's not like eons better than the DVD version, but it is slightly. I do think that part of the problem stems from too much compression because each disc holds a little over 3 hours of footage (and there's only 2 discs). Most of the problems I found with the transfer stemmed from the print source rather than the DVD, though. I don't see this movie being revisited on DVD any time soon, so I say go ahead and pick up the DVD since it retails for very cheap.

The Gospel of John I have this but haven't watched it yet. Disneykid mentions this being from the same team that made "Matthew from the Visual Bible" Is this a kind of Gospel of Matthew then? or something different? Not to be confused with the Italian "The Gospel Acording to Saint Mattheu" which I've never seen but I've read several times is one of the best/closest adaptations of a Gospel..

Well, Visual Bible International is a film company whose goal is make each book of the Bible into a film word for word without any deviations. Their first two films were straight to video: Matthew and Acts. I've only seen some of Acts, but the Matthew one is excellent and can be found very easily on ebay, like here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 92276&rd=1
The Gospel of John is Visual Bible International's first theatrical film and I hear they're doing the Gospel of Mark next with most (if not all of) the same actors from the John one. The Italian Matthew you speak of I've also seen but don't own. Personally, I find it a bit overrated. I admire the documentary feel of that film, but I think that the actors acto too zombie-like and don't show enough emotion, which is ironically what most people seem to love about it.

Ben-Hur Disneykid wrote: "(though I suspect this will become a 2-disc soon)." You mean it'll stop being a flipper? (Mine's a flipper with Heston commentary and other extras) or you mean there's a new Special Edition coming? If it's the second, I would hope for a new tranfer in which they reduced the overscan to 0% (the current transfer looks very good except for that one item)

I mean both actually. Because the disc is a flipper from some years ago, I have a feeling WB will re-release this with more features, possibly as a 3-disc edition with the film spread across 2 discs like with the Gone with the Wind: CE coming in November.

[Poppins#1]

I don't have anything to contribute on the subject of religion, but regarding these comments:

Ben-Hur Disneykid wrote: "(though I suspect this will become a 2-disc soon)." You mean it'll stop being a flipper? (Mine's a flipper with Heston commentary and other extras) or you mean there's a new Special Edition coming? If it's the second, I would hope for a new tranfer in which they reduced the overscan to 0% (the current transfer looks very good except for that one item)

I mean both actually. Because the disc is a flipper from some years ago, I have a feeling WB will re-release this with more features, possibly as a 3-disc edition with the film spread across 2 discs like with the Gone with the Wind: CE coming in November.

Doesn't anybody realize that Ben-Hur is a DVD-18 disc? That is exactly the same as two DVD-9's! So it is already a 2-disc set. To spread the movie across 2 sides is very beneficial because it can benefit from the higher quality of a higher bit-rate. To put the entire 3½ hour+ movie on one disc would be disasterous in terms of quality. In contrast, the original DVD release of Gone With The Wind is also a flipper, but it is only a DVD-10, meaning each half of the movie is crammed into a single layer. So the new special edition coming out will rectify that by giving each half of the movie its own dual-layer disc. IMO Ben-Hur is fine just the way it is. Please Warner Bros. don't revisit that title again.

[deathie mouse]

Disneykid thanks for all that cool info!

So the Visual Bible International people will have tackled Mark Matthew John and Acts. What about Luke? mmm.. since Luke and Matthew are similar, they could have done both at once. Kind of the way Superman and Superman II and the Three Musketeers and The Four Musketeers were done...

Altho a better artistic but costlier idea is doing them separately maybe by diferent directors and crews etc so it would be artistically and visually a different interpretation.



Poppins#1, of course I know it's a DVD-18, I have it
That's why i was asking Disneykid wherever it was just gonna be split into 2 DVD-9's or be something more with an added extra disc.

I also think it's a fine transfer, my PAL disc is one of the few PAL's i have that it's progressively encoded (25p) so with the players zoom feature I can blow it up without any loss in vertical resolution and the image holds up very well blown up.

But as i said, the only thing wrong with it is that the DVD image is cropping out roughly about 16% of the correct image area (that is about 8.5% vertical and 8.5% horizontal) (i just checked the numbers I had pasted onto the info field of the widescreenmuseum.com Ben Hur 70mm full frame scan)

The widescreenmuseum's scan (which is from a badly faded into magenta UltraPanavision print), being from a complete 70mm frame including the sprockets, etc, is showing the full camera aperture image which is slightly more than should be seen, so I've masked it down to the correct SMPTE Ultra-Panavision Projector Aperture (top image) so you can compare and see what is being cropped on the DVD (bottom image):



(A similar thing was done on the R1 Sleeping Beauty DVD)

In terms of width, on the Ben Hur DVD you're only seeing roughly 2.55 out of the 2.75 image. which is not so bad cus I read somewhere the director protected for that, since not all theaters could have a 2.75 wide screen , while theaters that showed the full width (preferably on a CINERAMA/Scope like curved screen!) would get the whole inmersive sweeping experience.

Same thing happens when I've watched some passages of TGSET in "Pan/Scan on the fly", 2.06 wide instead of the full 2.75. Nothing of importance in the action seems lost, except the impressive vastness and beauty of the wide image. The 2.75 image looks breathtaking.

I can undertand the Ben Hur DVD doing this "permanent" overscan to the width to get a slighly sharper, bigger image on screen since TV's (even 16:9ners for this movie!) are "small"

What is strange is that the DVD then crops again the height the same amount, which it doesn't have to, since there's plenty of space to put the correct full vertical image in the black bars space above and below

The only reason I see they did this is: Then the DVD would have been about 2.55 wide instead of 2.75 and even if it would have been showing the correct 100% full vertical image, millions of rabid pseudovideophiles would have cried foul!

While now most of them see 2.75 and go "ahh it's 2.75 wide, it's all there"

I think TGSET "pan-Scan on the fly" solution works much better.

So I'm hoping if this is remastered someday, they'll use this time 100% of the image, and maybe do the "pan/scan on the fly" thing for these of us that still have to watch it small on 4:3 TVs.




(Actually what i'm really hoping is an 2048 x 5632 10-bit UltraDefinition DBD )


____________________
deathie mouse. more than you want to know
25:9 UltraPanavision Displays. Accept No Substitutes.



To show the Ben Hur DVD crop this
was

[Disneykid]

Disneykid thanks for all that cool info!

So the Visual Bible International people will have tackled Mark Matthew John and Acts. What about Luke? mmm.. since Luke and Matthew are similar, they could have done both at once. Kind of the way Superman and Superman II and the Three Musketeers and The Four Musketeers were done...

Altho a better artistic but costlier idea is doing them sepparately maybe by diferent directors and crew etc so it would be artistically and visually a different interpretation.

That's sort of what they're doing. Even though I hear most of John's cast is coming back for Mark, the three films out so far (Acts, Matthew and John) are all by different directors and have different cast members, as you can see if you compare the ebay link to Matthew I showed you with your copy of Gospel of John. I have no clue if they're doing Luke, but I have a feeling they won't. There's a fairly well known version out there made in 1979 called Jesus (not to be confused with the miniseries) which is entirely based on Luke and has been seen by more people than any other movie due to the fact that it's used as an evangelical tool in dozens of countries. I do hope Visual Bible tackles Luke, though, because I know they'll do a more creative and less tame version than the Jesus movie from '79.