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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:05 am 
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Oh my gosh ! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me ! I find things like this so fascinating! Interesting (if the list is reliable) that they didn't re-use film dialoge for Snow in the ride....I wasnt aware she even said anything ? Bar singing. Which I would have thought they would use old track for ( as in the mermaid ride, which I'm pretty sure no addition recording was done for, bar Jodi saying she 'tweaked' some of it).

As didn't Adriana Cassoletti (forgive spelling) recording the Snow White fountain dialoge in the 80's ?

Agh ! This is all so intriguing !

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:03 pm 
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I dunno what the gist of this is, but I'll give my two cents, comparing the WDW and DL versions. The latter is, by far, scarier than the one in Disney World was. Even in the dark forest portion of the DL version, I actually felt as though I was in Snow White's shoes, running away from the dangers.

The fact I was riding it on my own didn't exactly make it any less freaky.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:15 pm 
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DisneyJedi wrote:
I dunno what the gist of this is, but I'll give my two cents, comparing the WDW and DL versions. The latter is, by far, scarier than the one in Disney World was. Even in the dark forest portion of the DL version, I actually felt as though I was in Snow White's shoes, running away from the dangers.

The fact I was riding it on my own didn't exactly make it any less freaky.


You must of gone in the post '94 one then. Cause pre 1994, WDW one was ten times more scarier and kick ten times more ass.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:20 pm 
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Well, of course I did. I went on the WDW one in 1998, the only time I rode it. I saw the video of the pre-94 ride.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:45 pm 
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how scary is the Paris version, on a scale of 1-10 compared to the other versions that have been and gone?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:53 am 
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atlanticaunderthesea wrote:
how scary is the Paris version, on a scale of 1-10 compared to the other versions that have been and gone?


it's same as current Disneyland's version. So not all that scary compared to tokyo's or 1971-94' WDW version.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:05 am 
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Super Aurora wrote:
it's same as current Disneyland's version.


With an extra scene at the end showing Snow White with her Prince.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:47 am 
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Super Aurora wrote:
atlanticaunderthesea wrote:
how scary is the Paris version, on a scale of 1-10 compared to the other versions that have been and gone?


it's same as current Disneyland's version. So not all that scary compared to tokyo's or 1971-94' WDW version.


Wow ok, so I really have only seen the tame version !

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:05 am 
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I would pretty much confirm in that list, that Louise Chamis did the voice of the Queen/ Witch in the post 94 WDW ride. Susan Blakeslee didn't really take over for the voice of any of the villainesses until the early 2000s, and at the time Louise Chamis was the voice for the Queen/Witch in Fantasmic and Fantillusion and the voices in the Snow White ride sounded identical to hers.

atlanticaunderthesea wrote:
Oh my gosh ! Thank you so much for taking the time to do that for me ! I find things like this so fascinating! Interesting (if the list is reliable) that they didn't re-use film dialoge for Snow in the ride....I wasnt aware she even said anything ? Bar singing. Which I would have thought they would use old track for ( as in the mermaid ride, which I'm pretty sure no addition recording was done for, bar Jodi saying she 'tweaked' some of it).

As didn't Adriana Cassoletti (forgive spelling) recording the Snow White fountain dialoge in the 80's ?

Agh ! This is all so intriguing !


Yep, Adriana did do the vocal of the Snow White wishing well for DL in the early 80s. You can here that part here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B204SL6e1hg

I think the main reason why Adriana never did any of the vocals for the incarnation of the rides is that according to her, she had a hard enough time in the recording session in the 80s trying to sound as young as she used to. So officially the last time she did the voice of Snow for Disney was the Snow White Grotto well in 83. Mary Kay Bergman took over as the official voice of Snow in the late 80s until her death in 1999, at which then Carolyn Gardner/ Melissa Disney took over. So in WDW's post 94 ride, the voice of Snow is by Mary Kay, even though her only lines are "AHHHH!" and "Buh-bye!" :p

As for the voices in the ride, I think the main reason why they have never used any of the dialogue from the film is that simply there really isn't any dialogue that conviently fits into the scenes. For instance, take WDW's original 71 Snow White version. There isn't any instance in the movie in which the Queen says "Mirror mirror on the wall...I AM THE FAIREST ONE OF ALL!" or "Have an apple dearie?" or Grumpy saying "I warned ya!" It simply is more convient for them to get to get their current voice actors to do the new narration.

Off on a tangent, but the Witch herself has had numerous voices too other than Laverne over the years. Throughout the 50s to the 70s, Ginny Tyler did her voice on the Disneyland records and the early Snow rides, mainly since she was famous for having a great witch cackle. I think they still use the cackle today too in DL's Snow White. Eda Reiss Merin then did her voice in the 80s for the new DL Snow White ride in 83, as well as recording dialogue for her for the new Snow White read along. Singer Gloria Wood played her briefly as well on a Disneyland Christmas album, singing a song called Jingle Bones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGV1dFQlb7U

But now I'm getting off topic. I could go on forever with Disney voice actors over the years XD

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:37 pm 
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PrincePhillipFan wrote:
I think they still use the cackle today too in DL's Snow White.


I think you can hear her cackle in the TDL video I posted too.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:40 pm 
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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
PrincePhillipFan wrote:
I think they still use the cackle today too in DL's Snow White.


I think you can hear her cackle in the TDL video I posted too.


Yep, that's definitely Ginny's witch laugh they use there too. Thanks for pointing that out to me, Flangy! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:46 pm 
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PrincePhillipFan wrote:
Yep, that's definitely Ginny's witch laugh they use there too. Thanks for pointing that out to me, Flangy! :)


Which is wierd because it sounds notaceably off from the voice used for the Japanese line readings. At least to me it does.

It's also interesting they didn't use Adriana's voice for the Mickey Mouse Revue (and by association the '71 WDW Snow White ride). But that show re-recorded all the songs it used, even if the lyrics remained largely unchanged.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:00 pm 
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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
PrincePhillipFan wrote:
Yep, that's definitely Ginny's witch laugh they use there too. Thanks for pointing that out to me, Flangy! :)


Which is wierd because it sounds notaceably off from the voice used for the Japanese line readings. At least to me it does.

It's also interesting they didn't use Adriana's voice for the Mickey Mouse Revue (and by association the '71 WDW Snow White ride). But that show re-recorded all the songs it used, even if the lyrics remained largely unchanged.


I found that odd too. I wonder if maybe recording technology had something to do with it as well, like how they re-recorded the Sorceror's Apprentice and You Can Fly in Philharmagic. Since at the time of the Mickey Mouse Revue's premiere, modern stereo was already heavily used in all their current shows like Pirates, Mansion, Small World. And considering that the soundtracks to Snow White, Cinderella, and others were all recorded at the time in less than perfect mono quality, they probably just figured it would be easy to re-record any music that would meet their needs for the show.

I do wonder who though they did get to re-record for Snow White in the Revue. You can hear the same version of I'm Wishing playing in the queue area in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKBCKPmRAzo

There's also another unique oddity that separates Snow White's Scary Adventures from the other Fantasyland dark rides today: all the music in the current Snow White attraction are taken from the film's soundtracks. The Peter Pan, Mr Toad, Alice, and Pinocchio dark rides all had their music specially re-recorded for their rides during the 1983 Fantasyland overhaul. Yet, for some reason, the current DL and former WDW rides had all their music taken directly from the film soundtrack, such as Magic Mirror, I've Been Tricked, the Silly Song, Forest Friends, and True Love's Kiss. Rather odd why they didn't bother to just re-record a new soundtrack like the others. In fact, Tokyo's Snow White is now the only ride to have a specially recorded soundtrack for the ride, with using the versions of I'm Wishing and The Silly Song recorded for the Japanese version of Mickey Mouse Revue.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:05 pm 
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With the short gap between the openings of TDL and New Fantasyland in 1983, is it possible Snow White was recorded at the same time as all the others, but for whatever reason was changed before the re-opening of the DL version? That's my guess, but the question then is why the change? Did they just like the sound of the original recordings better?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:18 am 
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I am just trying to drink in all your information PrincePhillipFan, I find it absolutley fascinating! How is it you know so much about the park voices ? It's something I would love to know more on, but always struggle to find the information?

Alice in Wonderland had a dialogue overhaul in the 80's did it not? Correct me if I'm wrong .... I seem to remember Kathryn talking about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:42 am 
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Flanger-Hanger wrote:
With the short gap between the openings of TDL and New Fantasyland in 1983, is it possible Snow White was recorded at the same time as all the others, but for whatever reason was changed before the re-opening of the DL version? That's my guess, but the question then is why the change? Did they just like the sound of the original recordings better?


It could be. But like you said, it makes me wonder why they would bother with changing it if that were the case. I think the reason why the Snow White soundtrack at Tokyo reuses the Mickey Mouse Revue's versions of I'm Wishing and the Silly Song is because when they built the ride they were trying to make it mostly like the 1971 WDW version, mixed in with elements of the new 1983 DL ride. I noticed that like WDW's 1971 version, the Tokyo Snow White's soundtrack is almost identical in that it uses nothing but sound effects all the way through, with no music used at all, with the exception of the new Silly Song scene that was added specially for Tokyo.

atlanticaunderthesea wrote:
I am just trying to drink in all your information PrincePhillipFan, I find it absolutley fascinating! How is it you know so much about the park voices ? It's something I would love to know more on, but always struggle to find the information?

Alice in Wonderland had a dialogue overhaul in the 80's did it not? Correct me if I'm wrong .... I seem to remember Kathryn talking about it.


Personally for me, I've always had a love for voice actors, especially considering it's a profession that I would love to maybe one day achieve. I think the best book to start about Disney voice actors is Mouse Tracks: The Story of Walt Disney Records. It's an amazing book that details the history of the Walt Disney Record company from its start in the 1950s up until today. And it covers not just the record company, but also parts of the theme park soundtrack history as well. But the best part of the book to me, is that about every 5 pages they have a 2 page spread bio on some of the most influential voice actors and singers that worked for Disney, such as Paul Frees, Thurl Ravenscroft, Pete Renoudet, but also fantastic lesser known voice actor/singers like Bill Lee, Gloria Wood, and Loulie Jean Norman.

Another book I highly recommend is A Musical History of Disneyland. It's a six CD boxset that has ride thrus of all the Disneyland attractions over the years, but the other special gem of the set is that it comes with a beautiful coffee table book about the history of the music for almost every attraction. I found a wealth of information there about the soundtracks for the different rides, as well the voice actors.

The Walt's People book series is another good resource. They're a completely truthful, warts and all, interviews with many of the artists who have worked with Disney, everybody from composers like Buddy Baker and the Sherman Brothers, to Imagineers and animators, to producers and directors who have all worked with him. I found dozens of fascinating stories by people like Ward Kimball, Marc Davis, Ken Anderson, and others that you most likely won't find in other official Disney books.

Also, not sure how interested you are in Haunted Mansion music or not, but a while back I composed a video of musical fun facts for the ride, that profiled each of the singers that you hear in the graveyard. For my high school graduation project I wrote a book on Buddy Baker and his music for the Haunted Mansion attraction, and this was part of a slideshow I had done for my presentation. The Persistence of Vision article on Buddy Baker and his music for the Haunted Mansion was a great help for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkpZq0onow8

Anyway, to get back to your original question about Alice, I'm not that well versed myself on the 1958-1983 Alice soundtrack. I have an E-Ticket Magazine article that has dozens of pictures of the original version of the ride, but it doesn't go into specifics of the soundtrack for that version. I know when they did overhaul and change it in 1983 however they apparently recorded an all new soundtrack for it, and had Kathryn come back to provide the voice for Alice. The biggest change was, like the original Peter Pan, Snow White, and Mr Toad rides, Alice herself was never seen in the original ride incarnation, so when they did decide to add her in certain scenes in the new version, they brought Kathryn back to record new dialgoue and narration.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:26 am 
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Thank you so much for your post; I have just ordered Mouse Tracks ! One of the biggest appeals for me about Disney films, much as you have said, that I love the voice work behind it. (Is that your Haunted Mansion video?! I loved it!)

That has indeed filtered down to the theme parks and who now voices who in what park, are they the original artist, when was it recorded, why was it changed, etc etc. All of these questions that I have never found an answer to! Only just different little bits and bobs you pick up over time. I love to know about 'sound-a-likes' as well, as who is playing what character now that the originals have passed away or grown too old.

As you said, I do wonder why they did no new track for Snow, when they did for all the other rides ? For example, in The Little Mermaid ride, Jodi said she 'tweaked' her original Part of your World recording, but it was mainly just the original track, as they like to use that wherever they can. But, you cannot apply that same logic to the Under The Sea section, as that was completely re-recorded ?!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Just out of curiosity Tim, how would you rank the DLR FL dark rides?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:51 am 
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atlanticaunderthesea wrote:
Thank you so much for your post; I have just ordered Mouse Tracks ! One of the biggest appeals for me about Disney films, much as you have said, that I love the voice work behind it. (Is that your Haunted Mansion video?! I loved it!)

That has indeed filtered down to the theme parks and who now voices who in what park, are they the original artist, when was it recorded, why was it changed, etc etc. All of these questions that I have never found an answer to! Only just different little bits and bobs you pick up over time. I love to know about 'sound-a-likes' as well, as who is playing what character now that the originals have passed away or grown too old.

As you said, I do wonder why they did no new track for Snow, when they did for all the other rides ? For example, in The Little Mermaid ride, Jodi said she 'tweaked' her original Part of your World recording, but it was mainly just the original track, as they like to use that wherever they can. But, you cannot apply that same logic to the Under The Sea section, as that was completely re-recorded ?!


Yep, I made that video a while back as part of my book project presentation. Glad you enjoyed it! :)

It's interesting that they did that too for the LM ride with Under the Sea. Again, I'm probably assuming it's due to the musical needs of the ride. Buddy Baker once said that composing theme park music compared to film soundtrack really separates a lot of the boys from the men in the business. A theme park ride composor not only has to record music that is fitting to the attraction itself, but also has to work rather mathematically to be able to get all the music to flow together. Take for instance the instrumental music that Buddy Baker and Bobby Hammack had to arrange and record for It's A Small World. They had to find a way to have each little country segment have its own unique music backing track, but arrange and compose them in a way so it's not a grand cacophony of noise when you flow past them, but instead having to have each musical track flow harmoniously into each other. Buddy had to work and do a similar technique when he composed the music for the Haunted Mansion.

I'm so happy to hear that you ordered the book. I'm sure that you'll love it Another great resource that helped me in my discovery of early Disney theme park voice work is this site: www.burnslands.com/voices

Voice actors just have been a constant admiration of mine since my high school days when I started to get into acting and drama. I'm just amazed by the talent of people like Paul Frees, June Foray, and Corey Burton who are so verstaile with their voices, that they can transcend any type of character immediately, from being terrifying villains to goofy sidekicks to handsome heroes and beautiful heroines, all with altering the sound of their voice. My ultimate voice acting idol is Paul Frees, because he was not just a guy who was good at doing "funny voices," but an extremely versatile actor who could not only do amazing voice work but also real acting.

Flanger-Hanger wrote:
Just out of curiosity Tim, how would you rank the DLR FL dark rides?


In terms of personal opinion, these are my favorites in how I would rank them:

1) Snow White's Scary Adventures
2) Alice In Wonderland
3) Pinocchio's Daring Journey
4) Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
5) Peter's Pan Flight

I know it's probably heretical to have Peter Pan in last place since so many revere the ride so highly. :p Just in comparison, to the others it has to be at the bottom of my list by default. I still love the scenes of flying over London and Neverland, but compared to the others, I'd probably have to put it at my bottom.

Snow White is at the top naturally because for me any Snow White ride is my fave. XD But also because I think after Tokyo's, DL's is probably second best incarnation. It mainly has the advantage of having the awesome facade with the Queen peering out the tower window, and the queue area with the raven's shadow and hearing the Witch in the background create the sleeping death spell. Also, another benefit that DL's Snow White has like Tokyo's is constant upkeeep and plussing of new technology and effects. Recently, Tony Baxter and some of the other Imagineers added a new special effect to the Queen's chamber, in which the Queen now only transforms into the Witch at the mirror, but the entire throne room changes with the spell. You can see some of the new effect here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JuWBib ... re=related

I had to rate all the remaining three above Peter Pan too, simply because there's nothing quite like them. I love Alice In Wonderland not just because it's a unique dark ride, but it's probably one of the most beautiful ones that Disney has made in terms of the setting and soundtrack. I only wish that more Disney parks other than DL would have an Alice dark ride, because it truly is a beautiful ride.

It's hard for me to place Pinocchio in the middle of the list since I feel it's a tie with Alice, but I put it as third simply because there's also identical versions of it you can find in Tokyo and Paris and not unique to the park like Alice and Toad. That being said though, when I went to DL, this was one of the rides that I absolutely loved. For some reason, Pinocchio and Snow White seem to be the two dark rides that many Disneyland fans don't like. Most of it I think though has to deal with the fact that these two rides are so damn dark and grim, yet that's what I love about them. They were called "dark" rides for a reason, after all. The one thing that really sticks out to me more than anything is the Pleasure Island sequence. Outside of Peter Pan, I feel it's probably the most immersive scene in any Fantasyland dark ride. Maybe it's because you're going through the scene for so long with so many vignettes to see, but I was so impressed when I got to ride through it in person. Everything from the creepy organ rendition of Hi-Diddle-Dee-Dee, to seeing all the gaudy amusements surrounding you just felt like you really immersed into the scene. Top that off with scenes like going into the pool parlor and seeing Lampwick turn into a donkey, and the Blue Fairy disappear before your eyes, and the ride was just instantly one of my favorites.

Again, like Pinocchio, I hate to put Mr. Toad as the fourth on my list since it's one of my favorites, but had to in process of elimination. I loved this ride not just because it's the only Mr. Toad ride in the world now, but because I simply love this attraction for how nuts and crazy it is. The dual track WDW Toad will still be the best one, but DL's is a lot of crazy fun too. After all, what other Disney ride would let you crash into a train, die, and be sentenced to an eternity in hell?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Thanks for posting you opinions Tim. My list would be this:

1) Mr. Toad
2) Alice in Wonderland
3) Peter Pan
4) Snow White
5) Pinocchio

Mr. Toad is number one for all its details (in and out of Toad Hall), the design of the cars (with comfy leather seats!), the pace and "thrill" of the showscenes and how much it celebrates one of Disney most underrated works. I especialy like the fireplace (with its timed fiber-optic and projection effects), the bumps along the track and the well used quote from the book on the sign outside. One of the clever aspects of the 1983 re-design is how many times you see Toad, but never in person. It's always "portraits" or statues and the like. It serves to familiarize guests with who the character is while still alowing you to "play" his part in the ride.

Alice in Wonderland next, for all the reasons you listed, along with its novelty in length and the two-storey outside/inside design.

Snow White and Peter Pan could be swapped easily, and I would like them just the same. For Pan, I think the show scene layout is a bit better at WDW, though the effects are superior in California. Snow White was superior to post-94 WDW, but it could use an ending to give the ride some sort of conclusion, instead of just spitting you outside so quickly. Strobe lights with stars or whats in Paris would work either way for me. :wink: I went on Snow after the changes you linked to so I can appreciate your point on that too.

Pinocchio is, without question, dead last for me. I'm glad you enjoyed it as the ride fell largely flat for me and I can honestly say I don't have a real drive to ride it again anytime soon. I think I felt the pace of the ride felt too disjointed with me. Without the bridging scenes and dialogue of the movie, the scenes appear to have no relation to each other (coming off as random and awkward not in the good Mr. Toad way) and with Pinocchio appearing in person multiple times you don't get the sense that you are him too often. It's like watching a clip show sped up without any time to really "soak-in" whats happening (besides the initial Pleasure Island scene).

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