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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:05 pm 
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I've mostly been busy with a webcomic gig and my own webcomic lately, but here are three things I did recently. First, this is the Easter basket I made for and gave to the girl I've been seeing.

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This is just something I did really quick for my webcomic site to place above my brief, usually tardy movie reviews. Eventually, I may go back to doing them in video format though. I've been wanting to get my own place before getting back into doing videos though.

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And this is a commission I just finished for someone on DeviantArt:

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I'm currently working on a contest entry for a Dark Shadows portrait competition, which I may not finish in time. I just found out about it, and it's almost due, ha.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:27 am 
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Aw, your version of yourself asleep on the couch is adorable.

That Belle picture is...umm...interesting. But I gotta say that the girls are not quite on model. I'd say the bodies and the motion are really fantastic actually, but the faces...Belle's eyes actually look a little creepy! I am trying to give criticism to make you even better...hope that doesn't hurt you... : /

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:24 am 
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The Belle picture, for the record, was a commission, so... weird or not, I am not the source of the concept, ha. I'm quite pleased with how they came out though, especially Belle. I'm not a big believer in the off/on model thing, not considering how different these characters can look from one scene to the next in their own films. Of course, there's a point where things are too off model, but I think these look more "on model" than a lot of "official" art I've seen (especially on merchandise and even in actual sequels/prequels). There expressions certainly aren't ones we are used to seeing on them though.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:40 am 
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This is my entry for the Dark Shadows Portrait contest over on DevinatArt.com. I rarely enter contests, but I'm a huge Dark Shadows fan, so I went for it this time.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Dude...accepting criticism and becoming better is a good thing. Do not delude yourself. Being off-model is a real thing, the official animators have model sheets, it's a real term. If you don't want to make yourself better, whatever man. Belle doesn't look as good as the merchandise or the most off-model parts of her film, and I would say the same for the others, but Belle is the most bad. Her eyes look like a Tarsier's. Don't know what that is? Take a look. I am being honest to help you, not hurt you. If you take offense, it's on you, because I don't mean it that way at all.

But that Dark Shadows poster, if you completely drew Barnabas by yourself, is AMAZINGLY good, so you don't need to worry about that one. You're a good artist, and from one artist to another, I'm trying to give you honest feedback.

In other news, so you're actually dating Kiki now? You can give a short answer or you don't have to say anything at all, especially since maybe you won't if you got mad at me because I'm trying to help you.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Duster, you are determined to paint me a certain way. I take criticism on a regular basis, but I have come to know where/whom to take it from. I am not set out to make things on a model. I do not have model sheets, and this is not done for an animated film where multiple artists are trying to make each drawing look the same. I am drawing things my way, just as most other internet artists do. I find the attitude on this site quite amazing. No one chastises other artists here for being off model, because they accept that they are drawing things the way they see them. The expression Belle has, including the eyes, are the way I wanted them to be. In addition, the person I did that piece for is one of the harshest judges I have encountered of whether something looks bad or good, and she was quite pleased with this one, so forgive me if I actually am happy with the piece. I'm sorry that you do not think it looks like the girls or you think it looks bad, but I disagree with you, and everyone else who has seen it and bothered to comment recognizes them instantly and likes it, which is what's important. Learn that not everyone is going to agree with you or your criticisms, okay? If I agreed with them, I would accept and appreciate the comments, and maybe even change the piece.

As for my dating situation, I prefer to not share that here, and yes, I did the Barnabas piece by myself. I actually have more issues with the Barnabas piece, and if you had pointed those out, I would have agreed with you.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Well. I meant what I said, as did you, and I worry about what will happen to you with harsher, and yes, perhaps better judges and people hiring you for bigger work, but it seems I can't say anymore. I Love the Barnabus piece anyway. For criticism on that, I'd just say the air-brushed-looking head and hands don't match the more solid-lined/cartoony painted rest of him. But I still think it's drawn impressively well.

It also sucks you aren't talking about dating Kiki anymore because I was actually genuinely interested. Not only do I actually really care what happens to ya after I read everything, but it was like a really good drama...

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:33 am 
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The Princess cartoon gave me a laugh. :lol:

I must also say that the Dark Shadows image is stunning. :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:58 pm 
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There's so much wonderful art in this thread! Has the results of the Dark Shadows portrait contest been announced yet? Your entry is fantastic!

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Why do people believe that fan art must be on-model? Art is an expression of the artist and shouldn't be bound in any way by 'models.' Characters and the like are completely subject to interpretation (especially if that was the artist's intention....) Plus, people have their own individual art styles that may not correspond to a certain character model anyway.

Duster, I've never seen any of your art and I'm very curious to see some of it.. do you have a thread up here showcasing some of you work as well?

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:53 pm 
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Heartless wrote:
Why do people believe that fan art must be on-model? Art is an expression of the artist and shouldn't be bound in any way by 'models.' Characters and the like are completely subject to interpretation (especially if that was the artist's intention....) Plus, people have their own individual art styles that may not correspond to a certain character model anyway.

Well yea in theory you're right...but Slave2moonlight's work didn't only look like it was in his own style like, say, enigmawing does, his art can be really good but in the case of the picture with Belle, I had to point out how it did not look so good. Since he had drawn the girls much more on-model before, I don't think what you were saying really applied this time.

I actually feel bad for Slave2moonlight if his feelings were hurt, but I thought as long as he wasn't hurt, I should tell him how I felt so he could make himself a better artist and it would help, not hurt. He's talented and I just think he needed to push it further. But he actually apparently left the forum, and who knows, maybe it was even because of me in addition to what happened in the rant thread. : (

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Duster, I've never seen any of your art and I'm very curious to see some of it.. do you have a thread up here showcasing some of you work as well?

Not yet. The best you could do is look in page 16 of the Once Upon a Time thread where I posted something. That's the closest thing I could think of for now.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Oh, god, really? I just accidentally clicked on the forum menu here out of habit (because I still read the home page here), and so I take a quick look, and finally people are coming into this thread?

Well, I am not going to follow up on this, but my thanks to those who are finally visiting my thread. I appreciate the kind words.

Duster, please don't think your comments meant so much to me that I left the forum because of them. I am no stranger to criticism. I do have a studio art degree, and that is basically four years of taking harsh criticism from art professors. If I was a bit annoyed by your comment, it was largely because of what heartless has mentioned already. Look, being on-model is for making animated features: thousands of art pieces that HAVE to look alike (and still often don't). I am not reading back, but I think I probably tried to tell you before, I do my art my way. My style came out of my love for Disney, so it is similar (just look at my comic strip) and not as distinctive as E.W.'s., I admit. Disney is how I learned to draw as a very small child. However, I do not worry about being "on-model". The characters need only be recognizable, and when I get a negative comment about that, I have to weigh it against any positive comments. This piece has received a lot of feedback, and yours was the ONLY negative one, so sorry, but it doesn't hold much weight for me, as even the best pieces of art will receive a little negative feedback, and much of the positive feedback seemed to feel exactly the opposite as you.

Okay, I'm out again. Incidentally, a big part of why I left is the same reason I left once (or twice) before. I just didn't feel a part of the group. This thread was generally dead, for example. And I don't mean to come down on the one person who would come visit and comment, but while I appreciated that, it doesn't mean I'm going to agree with the one complaint I got on one of my more popular pieces.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:07 pm 
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I'm sorry for not commenting more over the years! :( I generally look at the art threads, but I usually don't comment on people because I end up saying the same thing repeatedly--"That's great!" I always thought that would be annoying. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:50 pm 
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That's why you want to leave? I feel it's unecessary, I mean, you can just show up when you want to and don't worry about the group. But that's my say, anyway, because we'd like you to stay here.

I just have to get one thing clear. Well, too things. It wasn't just the on-modelness. Your picture looked...bad. Not completely. Just some bad spots. It just looked...not as well drawn as other things you have done. I don't get it when you drew the characters better in past things like those "feminist" princess pictures with Belle doing architecture and Jasmine protesting.

And the other thing...another artist agreed with me about your picture, too. But that's all I'll say.

Disney's Divinity wrote:
I'm sorry for not commenting more over the years! :( I generally look at the art threads, but I usually don't comment on people because I end up saying the same thing repeatedly--"That's great!" I always thought that would be annoying. :lol:

I think you need to let go of this fear you have. I have a similar fear and then I said "F--- it, I'm commenting and if people get annoyed f--- them too." And I'm all the happier for it. :D It makes you feel more free.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:31 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I just have to get one thing clear. Well, too things. It wasn't just the on-modelness. Your picture looked...bad. Not completely. Just some bad spots. It just looked...not as well drawn as other things you have done. I don't get it when you drew the characters better in past things like those "feminist" princess pictures with Belle doing architecture and Jasmine protesting.

And the other thing...another artist agreed with me about your picture, too. But that's all I'll say.


Well, again, that is one or possibly two opinions out of tons that have loved it, and I have to disagree with you myself, which is the main thing. Well, that and the client loved it, who, as I've mentioned before, has been a hard to please client in the past. And, in all honesty, now you are just coming off as snippy. But, of course, if you stare at it long enough, I'm sure you can come up with a bunch of things to mention next time. Any artist can do that with any piece of their own work, so I'm sure it's even easier to do that with someone else's work.

I know you think this is just me not being able to take criticism, but I sincerely just disagree with you on this one. Sometimes, people point out things that could be better, and I agree with them. There are things in every piece I've done that could be better. However, when it comes to "fanart" I've done, this is among the pieces I am most pleased with, so I'm sorry if I find the statement that it is a "bad" drawing to be laughable, even if you are just comparing it to my own past work. If you don't like the way it is done, fine. I just am not agreeing with you on this one. Like I've said, this piece has received a lot of praise elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:08 pm 
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I know criticism all too well. I pulled away from drawing on a few occasions because I couldn’t handle it at the time, once a few years back when I was told I was "drawing the same pathetic sh*t over and over," and another time later on when I got accused of being a no-talent, whiny cookie-cutter mary-sue fangirl that had absolutely no right to call herself an artist (from someone that would just not let up, he even created a second account just so he could keep on attacking me). Heh . . . harsh, right?

The thing about drawing is that it's all subjective, just like anything else. It's about sharing what you love and connecting with people. And because it's such a time-consuming, cumulative talent involved with emotions and expressing one's self, criticism can be really hard to take. I was on shaky ground when I first started posting my art online. I had no formal training outside of the solitary year of art school I flunked out of (which was full of harsh criticisms over my non-confrontational style and lack of hard angles), and I was rusty as hell anyway since I'd basically given up on drawing many years before. It absolutely crushed me once when a well-respected friend and much more established artist told me that it was too bad I’d made the mistake of switching the left and right feet on a semi-reclined character (he assumed from the angle that they were crossed at the ankles, but it was my intention to depict them as being parallel). And it was really nothing personal on his part, he was just trying to help by pointing out something. I couldn’t even look at that drawing for months, that’s how sensitive I was about it back then!

So as you can tell, criticism was the hardest part for me. Accepting criticism gracefully requires many things, including having an objective eye, not taking things personally, and not falling in love with your own work. It's really, really hard to be objective about your own work. No matter how personally satisfied you feel with a piece, that doesn’t make it untouchable once you post it somewhere for all to see, and just because you’ve received a lot of praise for a specific piece, it doesn’t mean someone else’s criticism isn’t valid. Keep in mind that anything you post online is up for grabs. I mean, even though I’m not looking for criticism with my commission work (so I totally understand where you’re coming from in this case, as it’s the commissioner’s opinion that takes priority over anyone else’s), it doesn’t mean I won’t expect to get any when I post it in any public forum. If I disagree with a criticism and am truly confident in my work, I thank them kindly for their opinion and move on. Getting defensive and dragging it out only gives the criticism more substantial weight and highlights my insecurities over the piece in question. And if I find I do agree with the criticism (which is more often than not), I'm typically uninterested in "fixing" the piece and usually just try to improve upon that aspect in the future. Oh, and if I feel someone's being snippy, rude, or outright mean, I usually just ignore them. If I hadn't reached this current comfort level with criticism, I'd still be a complete trainwreck every time I posted something new like I was back in the day.

I also personally have a hard time giving criticism, mainly because I rarely feel like I'm qualified to do so since I really suck at anatomy and partially because I remember how it made me feel in the early days. I left another forum because I was expected to dish out critiques like they were Halloween candy, and that's really not my personality (I also left because I didn't want to be associated with such an elitist group of control-freaks that banned members for giving too much “unnecessary” praise and encouragement to “unworthy” artists, but that's a story for another time). Now if someone asks for my help/criticism or if there's a debate going on, that's a different story. And since Duster brought this up, I have to agree that Belle's eyes don't feel right. Now I hope you don't take that personally or feel the need to get defensive, because it's not a reflection on what I think of you nor is it an attempt to pad my own ego, it just is what it is. Typically when a character is distressed, startled, or scared, and is given big eyes to express the emotion, they're depicted with smaller pupils/irises. Here you seem to have emphasized the pupils themselves, and given the overall look that you seem to be going for, it can be a little unsettling.

I totally agree that no character has to be "on-model" in order to have appeal and be drawn well. However, I do know a great many artists that would jump in on a circumstance such as this to state that one cannot excuse anything because it's "your style." But that's where it gets really tricky and subjective, of course. Just keep in mind that constructive criticism isn’t bad, mean, nor snippy, and the source doesn’t have to be an expert or even have the more popular opinion in order to be valid. There’s an enormous difference between what Duster said here and some attention-whoring troll hiding behind their screen and typing out insults out of jealousy, boredom, or ego-inflation.

Nathan, I know you've been through a lot of heartbreak lately. I won't comment on that, but I suspect that's one of the reasons why you've been rearranging your online social life. I can’t blame you, as I’ve totally been there myself. But at the very least, please consider that you shouldn't ever feel like you're not part of the group here. As Duster basically said, you’re welcome to join in and post anytime, just like any other member, and I personally don’t feel you need to completely separate yourself from this site. You love Disney and you belong just as much as anyone else. :) I do hope the things I said to you earlier haven’t influenced your decision to leave; as I tried to clarify before, if I didn’t like you and think of you as a friend, I wouldn’t have bothered to say anything at all, then or now. And although I haven’t commented nearly as much as I probably should have on your art, I want to point out that I’ve always enjoyed your work, ever since I first saw your Black Cauldron piece way back in 2006. :)

I hope you’ll stick around. We've already lost too many members and this site needs more friendly and passionate people like you. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Decided to lurk today and take break from what I'm doing(hence my post on Donna Summers). I saw this thread and the recent posts and I had to give my own two cents.

First I'll give my opinion on the piece Duster was talking about. What do I think of it? I'm unfortunately going to be very blunt and brutally honest and say that it's bad. Duster point out the think on Belle but Ariel and Aurora also look weird. Even though I hate furries with a burning passion, your drawing of the wolf dude sleeping was much much better. That's why I thought you could of done better.

Now for the other debate on this issue,

Enigmawing got most of the gist of it.

I initially wasn't going to get involve with this or give my say to Slave but I gotta get it out now. To me, the attitude Slave respond to Duster strike to me as one of those shit artist you find on DA as Enigmawing point out, the "It's my style" bullcrap. It's a egoistical defense mechanism that mostly prevents you from improving. I know this cause it I use to be like that too(though not to the degree those DA artist are), but now I enjoy taking critiques or criticism as it helped improved my drawing phenomenally and it does. two examples I could give as good evidence:

1. My mother knows zero to shit to nothing about art or the "art world". However I enjoy her critiques as, despite her lack of art "knowledge" or "skills", she actually give true and valid critiques and when i take in her suggestion and tips, the actually help improved my drawings such as fixing the feet, or hands etc.

2. As crazy and out there Duster can be sometimes, Duster does make amazingly good and valid critiques and they do help. He has a good eye for things. For instance, one of my drawing of Leonarda she wearing the LA Gears Jacket. when I showed it here on UD, Duster point out and thought that it was too "poofy" and thus making her look "fat". At first I didn't understood his critique but when I look back at it, it kind of does. True jackets can be "poofy" but not too much so i took in consideration of Duster's suggestion and later on when I drew her again, It came out much much better.

from this http://i.imgur.com/jOsvA.jpg

to now this: http://i.imgur.com/oC2tO.jpg (there still some correction I could fix on it which I will)

I realize the boobs were part of the problem. So I fix and corrected this.


3. J Scott Campbell, one of my biggest influence, even gave me some critiques and tips on drawing hair lines. Taking that in, my hairs on girls have improved.


So to get back to topic, You should always take critiques or criticism as something very very helpful. It does for me and I improved vastly ever since. Also I suggest to also pick up an anatomy book (my biggest recommendation would Bridgman's Drawing From Life) as they can be tremendously helpful. No matter what you say of "it's my style!" "I intend it to be like that", or "People like/enjoy it.", if you can't draw anatomy correctly than figure drawing going to such. Art is subjective on metaphorical level yes, but even art has strong objective rules you need to apply with when drawing no matter what you want to believe. All those people you see with "stylizes" art or drawings, know how to fucking draw- traditionally like. Because they know or understand the fundamental rules they need to follow when drawing. The style in their drawings take years and years slowly over time for it to develop as their own. Mainly drawing them from various influences they have.

So that's my two cents on this. If you want be good artist and improve, start drawing......ALOT and learn. lol

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I generally look at the art threads, but I usually don't comment on people because I end up saying the same thing repeatedly--"That's great!" I always thought that would be annoying. :lol:

Me too! The works of the skilled artists of this forum deserve praise paragraphs as compliments instead of my "awesome"s, "fantastic"s, and "marvelous"s.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:15 pm 
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Personally, I did think Duster was being somewhat snippy by repeating his criticism because S2M said they didn't agree. An artist doesn't have to accept criticism--their opinion on their work is as valid as outside viewers--considering there's always going to be someone somewhere is going to find something wrong with any thing. And, again my opinion, I like the drawing. Is it a carbon copy of the characters straight out of their films? No. It clearly wasn't meant to be. But I still it's a great piece of fanart.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Thank you enigmawing and wow, thank you Super Aurora, for backing me up, and all the rest that you two said. The things you both said really made me feel better, and I must say that the things you specifically said about my critcial eye, Chris, made me feel particularly great. So, yay, thank you!!!! :D

Disney's Divinity and Slave2moonlight...if you thought I was snippy, tough, because I wasn't trying to be, I only spoke again just to make certain things clear. But you two seeing nothing wrong with the picture baffles me, like you're telling me the grass is blue.

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