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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:57 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Tae wrote:
I think the point they were making is Regina needed to blame someone, and a trusting, defenseless little girl would be a better bet then a powerful, abusive woman who can rip out hearts and squeeze them into dust. It's not that Regina doesn't blame Cora, just that she doesn't risk being wounded or killed by taking out her anger on Snow.

I...don't think she would go after a little girl just because she can't go after her mother...and if that was what she was doing, I still wouldn't find it reasonable!

I don't find it reasonable, either, but it's not supposed to be. If she had a good reason for hating Snow, then she wouldn't be a very good evil queen, now would she?
If you can think up a better reason why she would blame Snow more-so then her mother (at least at first), I welcome you to it. But that's the theory I've seen most of the fandom adopt, and, knowing several people with an abusive or controlling parent(s), it's the one I agree with.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:24 am 
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I already said she'd still be an evil queen to kill a child for telling their secret, even if it was reasonable to blame that person, killing someone is still evil.

I actually did suggest something earlier that would be more reasonable. If Snow White told her father because she didn't want her father to be with someone who didn't truly love him, or she desperately wanted a new mother, then you could understand why Snow White did it for more selfish reasons (or at least, for reasons that were against the queen and uncaring about her feelings) and why the queen could actually think evil thoughts toward a child who she sees as not completely good and innocent.

There is an even simpler solution, too. And that would be if Regina found out Snow White told the secret through her mother, and her mother manipulated her into thinking Snow White didn't do it to save her or make her happy. Or just forgot to mention that. Then the queen could blame Snow White just because she didn't know that she told the secret out of good intentions. Then Snow White could have just found out that she's marrying her father instead of Daniel after that and she wouldn't need to say why she told the secret because Regina would have already been manipulated into thinking she did it without regards to her feelings.

I actually wouldn't be that upset over how they did the episode whole if Regina had always said "Snow White didn't mean to kill him but she caused his death after I told her not to tell, so she must die/Daniel must be avenged" or whatever, but she kept saying Snow White was evil and an enemy, when Snow White clearly did it for Regina's happiness, so that is why I find this episode to be a problem.

But blaming a child and killing them because you can't fight your mother is not evil. It just makes no sense. Much less sense than thinking the little girl deserves to die because you're hurt and your emotions got the better of you.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 pm 
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It makes perfect sense to me. Regina clearly snapped in the final scene of her when she was about to marry the king. Anyone involved in the death of Daniel would be going down, regardless of whether it's a child or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out later that Regina did kill her mother. She has already committed patricide.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Disney Duster, as far as I can tell, you seem determined to disagree with almost every point I make. Or maybe we have some kind of communication gap, I don't know. In any case, I have my views on the show and you have yours, and clearly neither one of us wants to change those views, so I'd rather not have another debate until we agree to disagree, if that's alright with you.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:11 pm 
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You know...I watched the episode again, and now I can get, she went crazy. Yea. And now I can buy it. She's turned crazy, unreasonable, and evil from what happened. So now I guess I side with Disney's Divinity.

Tae yea I noticed that too lol. Well, you know me I don't want you to think something about the show that isn't true, that isn't their intentions, and try to explain...but yea, you can still keep your own views and we can agree to disagree. So...if that's what we must do to keep the peace, let's do that.


...okay it actually really bothers me that you would believe a character would try to kill and blame a little girl just because she can't fight her mother. If that's your theory okay but such a thought really disturbs and bothers me. So that's part of why I really wanted to debate that one of yours. Oh well.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Call me an evil person but I would blame Snow White as well. I wouldn't try to kill her, but I would probably hold a grudge against her forever. Yeah, it's petty and stupid, but so be it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:35 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Tae yea I noticed that too lol. Well, you know me I don't want you to think something about the show that isn't true, that isn't their intentions, and try to explain...but yea, you can still keep your own views and we can agree to disagree. So...if that's what we must do to keep the peace, let's do that.


...okay it actually really bothers me that you would believe a character would try to kill and blame a little girl just because she can't fight her mother. If that's your theory okay but such a thought really disturbs and bothers me. So that's part of why I really wanted to debate that one of yours. Oh well.

I think you may have misread my post, or maybe I didn't clarify enough. My point was that she blamed Cora and Snow equally, but she took out her anger on Snow first and foremost because at the time she was powerless to do anything to hurt Cora, which probably changed since Cora isn't around when the curse is enacted and by that point Regina has magic. Still thinking that Snow was just as responsible as Cora, she hired the huntsman and later got a hold of the curse to fully 'avenge' Daniel's death and render Snow miserable for eternity. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I've thought about this so much in order to have a proper debate with you that I'm more confused about it then I was when it aired! I'll be re-watching the episode in a week with a friend, and I'll let you know if my views are the same then.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Hehe, okay tsom, well honesty is always good.

Tae, I totally get you now. And you think she will try to get Cora later, though, right, because she's the real culprit? But you can see if your views change anyway. After all mine did as I said above.

I really hope we hear more about Daniel and Regina and Cora and Snow White because...the big thing that made Regina want to make the curse on everyone in the land doesn't exactly feel big enough...maybe I'm wrong but that's how I feel right now.

But Regina's romance with Daniel was uuuundeeerwhelllmiiiing...and Daniel's acting held a lot of the blame. And his character. What kind of love interest was he?!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:38 am 
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@Disney Duster: Yes, I definitely think within a few years after Stable Boy, Regina found a way to take revenge on her mother, most likely by killing her. And in Heart of Darkness, Rumplestiltskin tells Prince Charming that 'you become as evil as the person you killed' (regarding Snow trying to kill the Queen), so if Regina did kill Cora, that was probably what made her into the person who was willing to ruin the lives of countless people to get revenge on one girl (I know she snapped emotionally at the end of stable boy, but I think it would take a bit more then that to do some of the things Regina comes to do, like sending little kids to their deaths at the blind witch's house). Of course, this is all speculation, but that is one of the nice things about this show, there's a million ways it could go so there's a million possibilities to consider, haha.

I definitely agree with you on it feeling underwhelming! I had been expecting what happened in Stable Boy ever since episode 7, so I wasn't really disappointed, but I think some kind of two-parter episode would have been better. The first would have focused on Regina and Daniel, ending when Snow catches them in the barn, and then the second episode would be everything that came after that. I was okay with Daniel, but they didn't really give us any time to deduce for ourselves whether or not Daniel was Regina's true love. They had, what, three scenes together?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Hey everyone, I learned the fairy tale parts are set in the Enchanted Forest, it seems that's the official name. And yes, Wonderland is outside of that, like another dimension. So we'll have to see if Mulan's area is part of the Enchanted Forest or is...another dimension? Uhhhh no maybe just back in time or another kingdom.

Tae, yea, you know if she hadn't said "I should have let her die on that horse.", I could've thought that she just became evil enough to want to kill her later. I can see it as just a mere wish in her anger and sadness, and a good transition, but I dunno.

I was thinking that also, that if the story was longer, giving more time and build-up of Regina's very, very important relationship with Daniel (and Snow discovering it being a great ending point!), and then the next episode, the rest that plays out, perhaps seeing their plans for their future when they run away, them sneaking out past her mother. It would've been nice to see Daniel really help and make Regina happy and be a great true love, so that when that happiness is taken away, you see that Regina is very, very messed up by it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:16 am 
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@Disney Duster: I agree with everything you said about Daniel/Regina! Honestly, thinking about it, their relationship was about as fleshed out as that of Red X Peter and Grumpy X Nova. I could forgive the former, because that episode was great, and the latter because their story isn't finished yet, but Regina and Daniel... this has been foreshadowed for such a long time that it would have made much more sense for them to have more scenes. I haven't seen the episode since it aired, so I could be wrong, but I think I remember Snow having more screentime then Daniel? That... doesn't make a lot of sense, haha.
When you get down to it, their relationship was only significant because of all the foreshadowing. I can just picture a brand new fan seeing the fairytale bits in Stable Boy and having no clue that Daniel was of much significance.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Yea I actually was able to get behind Red and Peter (I wish there was more of them, too though) but Grumpy and Nova annoyed me a looot, and it could've just been because of the actors or because it was forbidden love yet again, I dunno, that episode seemed so silly except for how Grumpy sold the candles in the end! But yea I think Snow White did have more screentime than Daniel! lol You may be right about the rest of what you said. I wish it wasn't that way, I wish they did more. Hopefully they will somehow in the future! I could actually understand perhaps the idea of keeping Daniel some kind of mystery guy who you are able to just assume/feel is really great, like Disney did with their first two princes kind of, but I don't think they even attempted that with Daniel, or if they did, I don't think they accomplished it at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:18 pm 
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I can't wait for the 28th of April when "Once Upon A Time" returns. They seem to really be working towards a great cliff-hangar episode to make us drool over for the summer, since we know that it is coming back for at least one more season.

I try not reading too much into each episode, because it is so well written, and each character is perfectly cast. I can keep up with the flashbacks to Fairy Tale Land, and when it comes back to present day. I have gotten a little lost with certain characters, but it hasn't stopped me from enjoying this show immensely.

I hope that the writers keep up with what's going on and don't give a schlocky episode just to refresh our memory like some television shows did.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:30 pm 
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@Disney Duster: Yeah, I liked Red X Peter too, but at least Red's story was more about the wolf then about romance so there was a reason for the lack of screentime. Unlike most, I did like Dreamy, but only the real world parts; Nova and Grumpy's relationship was ridiculous, they met two or three times and then decided to run away together! I much preferred the Mary Margaret/Leroy friendship dynamic.
Your idea of them trying to make him like the early Disney princes is an interesting idea. I'm trying to think of how that could have been accomplished if they had tried it... I wish they had, though. It would have been nice to have a different take on romance with the two of them! Thinking about it, they reminded me a lot of Kathryn and Frederick, except in reverse, since Kathryn got Frederick back and Regina lost Daniel permanently.
On the note of Kathryn and Fredrick, I was really happy that Kathryn turned up alive, so those two have a chance at a happy ending. Even though they were only in one episode, I like the pairing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Your right, the focus on the wolf excused their relationship. Grumpy and Nova's, yes, I also felt it was ridiculous. I like that such "little" characters could get a love story but I don't like how they did it.

I actually think that Disney's Cinderella's prince came off too jerky in the beginning, and many people think he or Snow White's prince are poor characters. I don't know if people aren't getting their mystery, missing the point that we aren't supposed to know much about them. But the one little known about "prince" that did seem to get pulled off is Bambi's mysterious father the Great Prince of the forest, no one complains about him.

I also liked Kathryn and her cute boyfriend. : )

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:20 am 
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My thoughts exactly. I wish they had had the two sneak out to meet each other quite often over the course of a few months, and then have them agree to run away together. I get that it's a world of fairytales, and our logic doesn't apply so much, but giving up a dream (being a fairy godmother) for someone you just met doesn't make much sense either way.
And, I wish Nova had gotten a better outfit. Every time I see the fairies, I wonder if they're part jellyfish.

I admit, I'm not a huge fan of the princes in Cinderella and Snow White, but I don't really mind them. They were made for a completely different time period, and thinking of them being as involved in the stories as Flynn or Naveen is kind of odd! Given what little screentime Daniel had, I think an approach like that could have worked if they did it right.
I never actually thought of Bambi's father as a prince before, but your right, he does get away with being mysterious far more then the early human princes, haha.

After all that she went through with David, and then whatever went on between her disappearance and Stable Boy, she deserves to have her prince! I think he's credited as being in one of the coming episodes, hopefully we'll see some development there :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:58 pm 
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I don't know how the Nova Grumpy romance could be better but maybe your ideas would make it so. I am so glad someone has talked about the fairy outfits. I actually love some of it, I just think what they need to do is make the hanging pieces form more of a pseudo full length skirt and the tutu would then look like a farthingale, if you look that up a farthingale was something they wore back in once upon a time times. Lol jellyfish yea it's pretty bad as it is.

Maybe Bambi's dad gets away with it because he's not human and he's not doing any romance scenes, I guess. How can the mysterious romantic princes get done properly, I wonder.

Glad to see Kathryn's cute boyfriend will be in upcoming eps!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:15 pm 
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Yeah... I'm not sure how to improve it, really. That's the only way I can think of to make it better, unless they completely changed how the characters met and such, haha.
Agreed. I was once looking at a screencap from the episode, that cut off right above where the skirt thing starts, and I realized her dress is really pretty aside from it. I looked up a farthingale and that would be perfect! Too bad we're not part of the costuming department, lol.

True. It is funny, though, to group him in with the early human princes!
If I come up with an idea about that, I'll be sure to post it here.

Me too : )


Have you seen the episode description for episode 20?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Yay we agree on so much! Though I fee the actors are what bothered me most about Nova and Grumpy, and the dialogue, and also what they decided dwarfs would be, you know, coming from eggs, never having love, I thought that was too silly.

I don't look up what comes next in episodes to keep me from being spoiled, so I enjoy each episode more by being surprised. : )

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:15 pm 
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It appears we do! I'm happy we got everything sorted out, haha.
Very true, the egg thing is a bit ridiculous. What kind of creature would lay eggs that opened to reveal clothed, middle aged men?

Ah, makes sense : )

Just one more Sunday and then we're on to episode 19!


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