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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:05 am 
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The Queen's background story wasn't supposed to makes us love her all the sudden. It gives us a story about why she hates Snow, but I don't think we're supposed to feel sorry for Regina or find her reaction to Snow's blabber mouth reasonable.

I mean sure, we can feel bad that Regina's lover died. Regina, as an adult, still should have been able to connect the dots and see that her mother tricked Snow into telling her. Why then blame Snow for her mother killing her boyfriend? As a whole I didn't like this past episode because it didn't make a good enough case for Regina hating Snow so much.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:14 am 
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I think there's more to it, but this was just the beginning. Apparently, the actress who plays Cora is signed on for more episodes.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:44 am 
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During the last episode i was hoping that regina's mom would of turned regina and her secret love into horses. and disguise as her daughter regina. it would of kinda made scene since she sacrifices her prize horse(regina turned into a horse) in the early episodes and her one love being her father ( but actually her husband). but anywhoo..
We still need an epidsode on how Regina gets her magic, since she didnt have any when she married the king.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:44 am 
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singerguy04 wrote:
The Queen's background story wasn't supposed to makes us love her all the sudden. It gives us a story about why she hates Snow, but I don't think we're supposed to feel sorry for Regina or find her reaction to Snow's blabber mouth reasonable.

I mean sure, we can feel bad that Regina's lover died. Regina, as an adult, still should have been able to connect the dots and see that her mother tricked Snow into telling her. Why then blame Snow for her mother killing her boyfriend? As a whole I didn't like this past episode because it didn't make a good enough case for Regina hating Snow so much.

Your second paragraph sounds hypocritial of your first! Your second paragraph is exactly what I'm saying - If this show is about "evil isn't born, it's made" as Regina herself says, then her backstory needs to make sense as to why she turned so evil. Sure, she's still evil because no good person would kill someone for accidentally getting your lover killed, but it doesn't mean she can't have a good case, which it really looked like they were trying to give her. But it also looked like her emotions are what took over her, too, and that is the same thing I have to convince myself is strong enough in order to accept any of the constant, constant unreasonable actions the writers make the characters do, that this is yet another case of.

AliceinWonderland wrote:
During the last episode i was hoping that regina's mom would of turned regina and her secret love into horses. and disguise as her daughter regina. it would of kinda made scene since she sacrifices her prize horse(regina turned into a horse) in the early episodes and her one love being her father ( but actually her husband). but anywhoo..
We still need an epidsode on how Regina gets her magic, since she didnt have any when she married the king.

That...is even more psychologically messed up than what they gave us! Dang! I'm glad it wasn't that but...that is some mind there!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
singerguy04 wrote:
The Queen's background story wasn't supposed to makes us love her all the sudden. It gives us a story about why she hates Snow, but I don't think we're supposed to feel sorry for Regina or find her reaction to Snow's blabber mouth reasonable.

I mean sure, we can feel bad that Regina's lover died. Regina, as an adult, still should have been able to connect the dots and see that her mother tricked Snow into telling her. Why then blame Snow for her mother killing her boyfriend? As a whole I didn't like this past episode because it didn't make a good enough case for Regina hating Snow so much.

Your second paragraph sounds hypocritial of your first! Your second paragraph is exactly what I'm saying - If this show is about "evil isn't born, it's made" as Regina herself says, then her backstory needs to make sense as to why she turned so evil. Sure, she's still evil because no good person would kill someone for accidentally getting your lover killed, but it doesn't mean she can't have a good case, which it really looked like they were trying to give her. But it also looked like her emotions are what took over her, too, and that is the same thing I have to convince myself is strong enough in order to accept any of the constant, constant unreasonable actions the writers make the characters do, that this is yet another case of.


Now that I re-read that, I wasn't clear enough.

My first paragraph was me trying to explain what I thought the purpose of this past episode was. My Second paragraph is my reaction to the episode. I wasn't trying to contradict myself. :P

I think the episode was trying to give us a reason behind Regina's anger, but instead it gave me the impression that she's an irrational moron that forgot how manipulative her own mother is. This episode, IMO, failed in storytelling.

Unless they don't want us to feel for Regina at all, and contradict their whole "evil isn't born, it's made" concept.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:46 pm 
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I think the point they were making is Regina needed to blame someone, and a trusting, defenseless little girl would be a better bet then a powerful, abusive woman who can rip out hearts and squeeze them into dust. It's not that Regina doesn't blame Cora, just that she doesn't risk being wounded or killed by taking out her anger on Snow.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:56 pm 
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Well I felt quite bad for her anyway. I just don't think its bad enough for how she thinks about Snow White.

Tae wrote:
I think the point they were making is Regina needed to blame someone, and a trusting, defenseless little girl would be a better bet then a powerful, abusive woman who can rip out hearts and squeeze them into dust. It's not that Regina doesn't blame Cora, just that she doesn't risk being wounded or killed by taking out her anger on Snow.

I...don't think she would go after a little girl just because she can't go after her mother...and if that was what she was doing, I still wouldn't find it reasonable!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:57 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Tae wrote:
I think the point they were making is Regina needed to blame someone, and a trusting, defenseless little girl would be a better bet then a powerful, abusive woman who can rip out hearts and squeeze them into dust. It's not that Regina doesn't blame Cora, just that she doesn't risk being wounded or killed by taking out her anger on Snow.

I...don't think she would go after a little girl just because she can't go after her mother...and if that was what she was doing, I still wouldn't find it reasonable!

I don't find it reasonable, either, but it's not supposed to be. If she had a good reason for hating Snow, then she wouldn't be a very good evil queen, now would she?
If you can think up a better reason why she would blame Snow more-so then her mother (at least at first), I welcome you to it. But that's the theory I've seen most of the fandom adopt, and, knowing several people with an abusive or controlling parent(s), it's the one I agree with.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:24 am 
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I already said she'd still be an evil queen to kill a child for telling their secret, even if it was reasonable to blame that person, killing someone is still evil.

I actually did suggest something earlier that would be more reasonable. If Snow White told her father because she didn't want her father to be with someone who didn't truly love him, or she desperately wanted a new mother, then you could understand why Snow White did it for more selfish reasons (or at least, for reasons that were against the queen and uncaring about her feelings) and why the queen could actually think evil thoughts toward a child who she sees as not completely good and innocent.

There is an even simpler solution, too. And that would be if Regina found out Snow White told the secret through her mother, and her mother manipulated her into thinking Snow White didn't do it to save her or make her happy. Or just forgot to mention that. Then the queen could blame Snow White just because she didn't know that she told the secret out of good intentions. Then Snow White could have just found out that she's marrying her father instead of Daniel after that and she wouldn't need to say why she told the secret because Regina would have already been manipulated into thinking she did it without regards to her feelings.

I actually wouldn't be that upset over how they did the episode whole if Regina had always said "Snow White didn't mean to kill him but she caused his death after I told her not to tell, so she must die/Daniel must be avenged" or whatever, but she kept saying Snow White was evil and an enemy, when Snow White clearly did it for Regina's happiness, so that is why I find this episode to be a problem.

But blaming a child and killing them because you can't fight your mother is not evil. It just makes no sense. Much less sense than thinking the little girl deserves to die because you're hurt and your emotions got the better of you.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 pm 
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It makes perfect sense to me. Regina clearly snapped in the final scene of her when she was about to marry the king. Anyone involved in the death of Daniel would be going down, regardless of whether it's a child or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out later that Regina did kill her mother. She has already committed patricide.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Disney Duster, as far as I can tell, you seem determined to disagree with almost every point I make. Or maybe we have some kind of communication gap, I don't know. In any case, I have my views on the show and you have yours, and clearly neither one of us wants to change those views, so I'd rather not have another debate until we agree to disagree, if that's alright with you.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:11 pm 
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You know...I watched the episode again, and now I can get, she went crazy. Yea. And now I can buy it. She's turned crazy, unreasonable, and evil from what happened. So now I guess I side with Disney's Divinity.

Tae yea I noticed that too lol. Well, you know me I don't want you to think something about the show that isn't true, that isn't their intentions, and try to explain...but yea, you can still keep your own views and we can agree to disagree. So...if that's what we must do to keep the peace, let's do that.


...okay it actually really bothers me that you would believe a character would try to kill and blame a little girl just because she can't fight her mother. If that's your theory okay but such a thought really disturbs and bothers me. So that's part of why I really wanted to debate that one of yours. Oh well.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:32 pm 
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Call me an evil person but I would blame Snow White as well. I wouldn't try to kill her, but I would probably hold a grudge against her forever. Yeah, it's petty and stupid, but so be it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:35 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Tae yea I noticed that too lol. Well, you know me I don't want you to think something about the show that isn't true, that isn't their intentions, and try to explain...but yea, you can still keep your own views and we can agree to disagree. So...if that's what we must do to keep the peace, let's do that.


...okay it actually really bothers me that you would believe a character would try to kill and blame a little girl just because she can't fight her mother. If that's your theory okay but such a thought really disturbs and bothers me. So that's part of why I really wanted to debate that one of yours. Oh well.

I think you may have misread my post, or maybe I didn't clarify enough. My point was that she blamed Cora and Snow equally, but she took out her anger on Snow first and foremost because at the time she was powerless to do anything to hurt Cora, which probably changed since Cora isn't around when the curse is enacted and by that point Regina has magic. Still thinking that Snow was just as responsible as Cora, she hired the huntsman and later got a hold of the curse to fully 'avenge' Daniel's death and render Snow miserable for eternity. Does that make sense?
Honestly, I've thought about this so much in order to have a proper debate with you that I'm more confused about it then I was when it aired! I'll be re-watching the episode in a week with a friend, and I'll let you know if my views are the same then.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:35 pm 
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Hehe, okay tsom, well honesty is always good.

Tae, I totally get you now. And you think she will try to get Cora later, though, right, because she's the real culprit? But you can see if your views change anyway. After all mine did as I said above.

I really hope we hear more about Daniel and Regina and Cora and Snow White because...the big thing that made Regina want to make the curse on everyone in the land doesn't exactly feel big enough...maybe I'm wrong but that's how I feel right now.

But Regina's romance with Daniel was uuuundeeerwhelllmiiiing...and Daniel's acting held a lot of the blame. And his character. What kind of love interest was he?!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:38 am 
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@Disney Duster: Yes, I definitely think within a few years after Stable Boy, Regina found a way to take revenge on her mother, most likely by killing her. And in Heart of Darkness, Rumplestiltskin tells Prince Charming that 'you become as evil as the person you killed' (regarding Snow trying to kill the Queen), so if Regina did kill Cora, that was probably what made her into the person who was willing to ruin the lives of countless people to get revenge on one girl (I know she snapped emotionally at the end of stable boy, but I think it would take a bit more then that to do some of the things Regina comes to do, like sending little kids to their deaths at the blind witch's house). Of course, this is all speculation, but that is one of the nice things about this show, there's a million ways it could go so there's a million possibilities to consider, haha.

I definitely agree with you on it feeling underwhelming! I had been expecting what happened in Stable Boy ever since episode 7, so I wasn't really disappointed, but I think some kind of two-parter episode would have been better. The first would have focused on Regina and Daniel, ending when Snow catches them in the barn, and then the second episode would be everything that came after that. I was okay with Daniel, but they didn't really give us any time to deduce for ourselves whether or not Daniel was Regina's true love. They had, what, three scenes together?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:07 pm 
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Hey everyone, I learned the fairy tale parts are set in the Enchanted Forest, it seems that's the official name. And yes, Wonderland is outside of that, like another dimension. So we'll have to see if Mulan's area is part of the Enchanted Forest or is...another dimension? Uhhhh no maybe just back in time or another kingdom.

Tae, yea, you know if she hadn't said "I should have let her die on that horse.", I could've thought that she just became evil enough to want to kill her later. I can see it as just a mere wish in her anger and sadness, and a good transition, but I dunno.

I was thinking that also, that if the story was longer, giving more time and build-up of Regina's very, very important relationship with Daniel (and Snow discovering it being a great ending point!), and then the next episode, the rest that plays out, perhaps seeing their plans for their future when they run away, them sneaking out past her mother. It would've been nice to see Daniel really help and make Regina happy and be a great true love, so that when that happiness is taken away, you see that Regina is very, very messed up by it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:16 am 
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@Disney Duster: I agree with everything you said about Daniel/Regina! Honestly, thinking about it, their relationship was about as fleshed out as that of Red X Peter and Grumpy X Nova. I could forgive the former, because that episode was great, and the latter because their story isn't finished yet, but Regina and Daniel... this has been foreshadowed for such a long time that it would have made much more sense for them to have more scenes. I haven't seen the episode since it aired, so I could be wrong, but I think I remember Snow having more screentime then Daniel? That... doesn't make a lot of sense, haha.
When you get down to it, their relationship was only significant because of all the foreshadowing. I can just picture a brand new fan seeing the fairytale bits in Stable Boy and having no clue that Daniel was of much significance.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Yea I actually was able to get behind Red and Peter (I wish there was more of them, too though) but Grumpy and Nova annoyed me a looot, and it could've just been because of the actors or because it was forbidden love yet again, I dunno, that episode seemed so silly except for how Grumpy sold the candles in the end! But yea I think Snow White did have more screentime than Daniel! lol You may be right about the rest of what you said. I wish it wasn't that way, I wish they did more. Hopefully they will somehow in the future! I could actually understand perhaps the idea of keeping Daniel some kind of mystery guy who you are able to just assume/feel is really great, like Disney did with their first two princes kind of, but I don't think they even attempted that with Daniel, or if they did, I don't think they accomplished it at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:18 pm 
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I can't wait for the 28th of April when "Once Upon A Time" returns. They seem to really be working towards a great cliff-hangar episode to make us drool over for the summer, since we know that it is coming back for at least one more season.

I try not reading too much into each episode, because it is so well written, and each character is perfectly cast. I can keep up with the flashbacks to Fairy Tale Land, and when it comes back to present day. I have gotten a little lost with certain characters, but it hasn't stopped me from enjoying this show immensely.

I hope that the writers keep up with what's going on and don't give a schlocky episode just to refresh our memory like some television shows did.

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