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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:58 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:
^ That's almost uncalled for.

No, it's not uncalled for. Not at all.

Yes, it is uncalled for actually.

Most of us in the states have to start out at minimum wage jobs regardless, but if someone can get their foot in at Disney and get all the perks with the possibility of moving up in the company, more power to them. And hell, with the economy the way it is right now people are lucky to find jobs period; you should have seen the struggles I went through in WI just trying to keep a roof over my head.

Argue all you want about Disney being an "evil corporation," but the reason a lot of us are here in this forum is because we love the material the company produces, and many still dream of being a part of the "magic" that we grew up with and still experience to this day. You can have your opinion of course, but it's really inappropriate and disrespectful to be calling our members "dumb," especially in a thread like this. If you want to question the company's integrity go start a different thread for it, but don't be bashing any members here for taking the first steps to following their dream.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Besides, I already work for McD's. So I'll be going from one evil corporation to another.

SERIOUSLY though I called WDW to ask them about my glasses (whether or not they were conservative enough) or not.

I didn't really get the answer, BUT the nice lady who took my call gave me lots of advice! She told me what I should do to get invited to stay!

I can't wait to start pin trading!!!

Should I order my lanyard yet?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Don't even some of the people who work at Disney joke about the company being an evil corperation. :lol:

I think its just that probably the joke about that is because they know the downsides of Disney but also see its good sides as well.Mostly its good sides comes from its movie department and most of its bad sides comes from the people who run the corperation.But hey I see corperations can be either Affably Evil or Faux Affabily Evil.If you didn't know those are TV tropes terms.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Hold on to your hats, folks, because I will be posting some very heavy comments about all of this...

Like many of you know, I love Disney. Disney was indeed the first entity I was introduced to when I was a child, and it left a huge mark in my life. To add more "fairy tale bullcrap" to it all, I was born on July 17, the same day that Disneyland opened. That to me means that I was destined to enjoy Disney beyond the typical fan. Since then, I've watch all the movies, all the TV shows, enjoy the products they produced etc. My dream is to go to Disney World someday (and I hope to make that dream happen this year on my 30th birthday) and thanks to Disney I have made some of the most incredible and amazing friends a guy could ever had. For ALL of that I am eternally grateful.

That said, I am very well aware of the wrongs going on with the company. There is a corporate side that runs it all and it unfortunately tarnishes the goals they originally set out to do. I also get why people make fun of Disney: they are indeed an easy target. They promote dreams, magic and friendship in such a way that it makes Friendship is Magic look tame in comparison. Pair that with the easily identifiable wrongs of the company and again you see why people complain and make fun.

Regardless of all of that, I still love Disney, I still consider myself to be passionate about it and I still love discussing Disney. I guess that makes me a "dumb, brainwashed" person that refuses to accept the harshness of reality. But you know what? I don't care. As a grown adult I have the right to pursue whatever I want and enjoy whatever I want with any mentality as long as I don't hurt others or myself in the process. So if I welcomed Disney into my life despite the flaws and ethical problems present in the company, then THAT'S MY PROBLEM TO DEAL WITH.

All of this just gives strength as to why as much as I love some of the people here, Ultimate Disney has become sorta like an anti-Disney forum. Not saying that we ALL must be loyal fanboys that think the company is 100% flawless. When the company does bad, we should point them out. Disney isn't the ONLY entity we have to enjoy. If someone makes a better movie then we should celebrate that as well. I hate it when some Disney fangirls or fanboys post on Tumblr about how Disney is the only entity they know that makes them feel better, or how they hate it when people dare criticize and compare them to other companies (heaven forbid a Disney fan to like a DreamWorks movie...). That's just's dumb, loyal admiration and it is just as bad as extreme hatred.

Still, I like to think that we can discuss both the positives and the negatives of Disney while still being civil and realizing that people have different ideas about the company, some good and some bad. But apparently some can't accept that fact, and that's why this thread made me so angry. The fact that nachonaco (or anyone else really) can't even come here and CELEBRATE something she really wanted to do at Disney without people coming in here insulting her and others because they dared to speak in a positive light about the College Program and SHARE THEIR OWN EXPERIENCES with nachonaco just speaks volume about how VENOMOUS the site has gotten.

That's why I left the first time, and was thinking about doing it again, because I honestly feel that it is bad to be a Disney fan around here, that there is no freedom to express our opinions without someone insulting us for it. And before you say "Oh we were trying to post our opinions everyone is just making a big deal out of them because they are Disney fanboys", note that the question that started all of this was one that was legit: "Aren't the college program kids overworked and underpaid?". People brought their honest answers and what they got out of it. The problem started when they were being mocked and ridiculed for it, to the point where they were called DUMB for genuinely saying that they liked the experience, all because they didn't fit the image the posters had.

It's like people have said already: If the opinion is that the college program isn't worth it, then fine, your opinion, therefore your problem to deal with. But to come to this thread that celebrates a personal goal being achieved and insult the poster and anyone that was in favor shows that there is a high level of venomous immaturity, the kind that doesn't want to accept the fact that people are perfectly fine with Disney and must change the fact in order to feel better about themselves.

And that's my problem with Ultimate Disney and this thread in particular as a whole. I really hope that Luke and the moderators look at this and realize that there is a severe need to change things around. While calling someone "dumb" is very tame compared to what people could have said, it was still an insult. It was an insult to my friends ON THIS FORUM who I truly love and respect beyond our common interest in Disney, it was an insult to my friends outside this forum who have pursued their dreams and made themselves into something really big and inspiring. That sort of thing should never be tolerated, whether people are speaking positively or negatively about the company.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Nachonaco, I hope that you expressing your happiness for being accepted into the college program hasn't made you regret your decision. If this is what you want to do with your life, then go ahead. Take the good with the bad, and make sure to learn something out of all of this, because at the end it's the experience that matters, and if you are not happy with it then it shouldn't be pursued any further.

I hope you meet you at Disney one of these days and good luck!

-pap64

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:39 pm 
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Pap alerted me about this thread on Facebook and I feel I have to come in and offer my support. I won't address the negatives here, mainly because there's enough of that already and I don't want to be a party to it.

First, let me just offer a huge CONGRATULATIONS!!!! to both nachonaco and DisneyJedi for being accepted into the college program. You two will be in for the rides of a lifetime, and will have many great and new experiences that you'll treasure for the rest of your lives.

Secondly, I just want to say BRAVO!!!!! to SWillie! for his well-written and wonderfully thorough post. You did an excellent job explaining what it really means to work for The Walt Disney Company. Whether it be a college kid in a theme park or a high profile animator at The Hat, magic is made all the time. I treasured my time there (2005-2006) and still keep in contact with plenty of people I met on my programs (both domestic and international). The College Program is an experience that one doesn't fully understand unless they've done it themselves. Disney Villain and I often joke that there should be a support group for any college student who goes through WDW-withdrawal when their program ends.

Thirdly, I originally planned to write my own long and drawn out post to support what SWillie! had said, but realized that much of it would be redundant. After all, enough people in this thread have already explained how the College Program and working for Disney was a positive experience for them. I can only echo their sentiments and offer my support. Working for Disney truly changed my life, and I would go back there in a heartbeat.

In addition, I'd like to share an excerpt from Mouse Tales, a book by David Koenig that talks about working in Disneyland. Koenig never worked in the theme park, he interviewed many people who did. The book itself is not even authorized or endorsed by Disney, it's an unofficial account that talks about the theme park without the rose-colored glasses. Even though it's about Disneyland, much of it is still applicable to working at Walt Disney World (I know he wrote a book about working there too, but I haven't read it yet):

    Guests wonder where the park finds all of their cheerful and caring employees. Mostly, Disneyland teaches them to be that way, using a combination of chalk dust and pixie dust. Every newcomer is put through three to five days of indoctrination at Disney University, the in-house training program. Here, they learn Disneyland isn't the normal workplace; it's a stage and their job is putting on a show. No matter who the employee, the goal isn't parking cars, selling tickets, serving food or counting money. It's creating happiness. And they can only provide this magical product through sincerity, warmth, teamwork and following Disney guidelines. It's the Disney Way. The motivational orientation program has been so successful that in 1987 other companies began hiriing Disney trainers to indoctrinate their workers in the Disney Way.

    [...]

    The park's great demands can make for a very confining existence. Summer comes, your friends go to the beach and you work. Then comes Christmas and you work. Spring break, work. For many, Disneyland becomes their life. Work, school, social life, everything revolves around the park. It's more than a job, it's a lifestyle.

    Most of them accept it. Some welcome it. They just love their jobs. They're getting paid to have fun. "It was like high school without homework," said a former tour guide. "You got to see all your friends. When people hear I worked at Disneyland, their eyes light up and they say, 'Really?' It touches the youth in everyone."

    The pixie dust wears off, but for some the magic doesn't go, it just changes. "If I didn't have to make serious money, I'd go back today," said a smitten ride operator. "I'm planning on going back after I retire. And I'll work there until they won't let me work there anymore."

    "It was the happiest time of my life," said a high school teacher who moonlighted as night supervisor on Main Street. "I taught to pay the bills, I worked at Disneyland to feed my soul. For a little guy who was just gonna be a little fish, I did all right. I always enjoyed it. I'd rather do that than anything. I wouldn't trade it for anything."

    Even though most hire on for part-time work while at college, they usually stick around longer than they know they should. Sometimes a lot longer. When they finallly do leave, there's a withdrawal period, because they're so saturated in the Disney Way. The friendships last ten years, twenty years, a lifetime. There are tour guide reunions, Jungle Cruise skipper reunions. Seventeen women who worked togehter as ticket sellers have been meeting for lunch once a month for the last eleven years, under the unofficial name of Terrifically Independent Ticket Sillers (T.I.T.S.). Disneyland also nurtures the bond with an intensive, multi-benefit retirement program, monthly meetings of a 900-member Mouse Ears retirement club and 3,000-member Disneyland Alumni Club.

    An entire subculture has developed among the alumni. THey use each other as their docotr, lawyer, real estate agent, counselor. Most of one Anaheim dentist's patients are past park co-workers, many of whose children now work there. Strangers who both worked at Disneyland can meet on the street and there's an immediate connection, an instant rapport.

    They take what they've learned at Disneyland and apply it to their own businesses. Plus, Disneyland looks terrific on a résumé. Personnel managers forget what the interview is for and start asking about Disneyland. It's a sure hire.

    Employers know Disneyland selects and cultivates good people. "It taught me a lot," said one successful alumnus. "I didn't appreciate the place until I left, but now I always compare other companies to Disneyland. It taught us to work together, pull together and not worry about working a little late to get the job done. To have a positive attitude, even though the work gets boring. It helped me communicate with people, to manage and control huge groups and not be afraid to talk to 200 people. To take control and feel comfortable with it."


Finally, nachonaco, to address your question about being hired full-time after the program, it doesn't happen very often. Usually, most CPs will go seasonal or part-time, and after a few years, they may be offered an interview for full-time. But on occasion, when a cast member has proven him/herself above and beyond the call of duty, they get offered a full-time position. I should know, it's happened to someone very close to me: my younger brother. Long story short, he applied for the College Program twice, and got in his second time. For much of last year, he worked at the Boardwalk Bakery, where his manager recommended he interview for a full-time position. Now, he is a full-time pastry chef at the Crystal Palace in Magic Kingdom.

I should caution that getting full-time is not easy. My brother worked long hours at Boardwalk, he was sometimes dispatched to other locations, and he also picked up shifts in theme parks in order to get a wider ranger of experience. It was a LOT of spade work and yes, it was all still at minimum wage. But it was never about the money for him. He knew that from the get-go, thanks in part to what many others have already told him (namely myself, my sister, and all our friends who did the program). Working for Disney is about the experience, about the people, about making connections that he could otherwise not make anywhere else. He took the job, knowing what he was heading into. Based on our phone and skype calls, the past several months have been the happiest I've ever seen him. Walt Disney World was where he belonged. Sure, sometimes he'd complain about something at work. But those bad experiences NEVER outweighed the good. And truth be told, everyone will have a horror story from their workplace, so Walt Disney World is no different and shouldn't be an exception. Was he making minimum wage? Yes. Did it hurt his wallet at times when it shouldn't have? Yes. But in the long run, did any of that really matter? No. You can't put a price on life. He took it on full-force and look where he is now. He's one of the lucky ones who managed to turn his foot in the door into a complete crossing of the threshold.

He decided to work for Disney - and to stay at Disney - because that's what he has wanted to do all his life. If that makes him dumb, then I sincerely wish I were as dumb as him.

By the way, this video is a great testament as to why so many people - college program or full time - enjoy working at Disney. Guests like these make the long hours, the low pay, and the tiresome task worth it all:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/DpiQ-D_kaxY" frameborder="0"></iframe>

To read a full article by Ted C. about his family's experience, check out the "The Magic Kingdom Family of the Day" (February 23's Thursday Treasures) at FromScreenToTheme.com

Albert

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Congratulations, DisneyJedi and nachonaco! Would each of you keep a blog about your experiences in the DCP, please?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Thanks to Enigmawing, pap64, and Escpapay (Escapay you're still around??!)

That excerpt from Mouse Tales is great. The experience of going to Traditions (the orientation program) was fantastic.

The video is also fantastic - that truly is the reason why Cast Members get up and go to work everyday.

It's great to see that so many others have had the great experience that I had, and that so many others are in the same mindset about the company.

Nachonaco - I want to add a little bit to what Escapay said about full time. He's definitely right that it's much more up in the air with full time than it is with part time or seasonal. Lots and lots of CPs are given seasonal status after their program ends. Basically, those CPs that are interested in doing so tell their leaders or managers towards the end of their program, and they are then evaluated to make sure their record card doesn't have any big issues (not to many lates, call-ins, no shows, or other problems), and as long as everything is good, they are given seasonal status. This means that, throughout the course of a year, they have to work 150 hours in order to stay employed. This past year I've gone for my summer and Christmas breaks (most seasonal cast members come down during peak seasons like that).

It works basically the same way with part-time. It isn't very difficult to get hired this way.

Full time really just seems to depend on the position you're looking at and how lucky you are with your timing. I've known several people that apply for full time and get hired within the month (my girlfriend got the call the very next day!). So it is certainly possible. But I've known many more people that sit on the full-time waiting list for months while they work their part time jobs, trying to pick up extra hours where possible.

But you are certainly right that if you work hard, show a positive attitude towards both co-workers and guests, and overall just be a great Cast Member, you'll have a lot more people that are willing to help you get to where you want to go in the company.

As for pin trading - you don't have to order anything, as Disney provides you with the pins and lanyards when you start work. It's definitely a lot of fun. Pin trading is definitely a great way to have some really fun guest interaction, and you'll find that some days it's the only thing that keeps you sane! In a good way, of course... :p


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:57 pm 
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blackcauldron85 wrote:
I getcha now...I thought you were saying bad things about people who want to work for Disney through the College Program...

I was saying it's dumb to be excited to be overworked and underpaid just because the company's name is 'Disney'.

Lazario wrote:
Disney are clearly manipulating people and they can do better but they won't because thanks to the enthusiasm of people wanting to be a part of this - they won't have to. There's a lesson to be learned here and Disney will never learn it if people continue to let them peddle this kind of "the experience is its' own reward" garbage.

Thank you, that's exactly what I meant! You worded it better than I did. But that's exactly what it is: regular people cowering and crawling for a multibillion dollar corporation. What's the difference with the people who let themselves get humiliated and treated like a doormath by Donald Trump on national tv in Celebrity Apprentice? Oh, right, their name is 'Disney', how stupid of me to forget...

pap64 wrote:
Goliath, let me ask you something... How many people do YOU know did the Disney College Program? Have they told you EVERYTHING that goes on in the program to the point where you come to the conclusion that it is bad, or are you jumping to the conclusion because you are this radical man that must fight against the establishment and thus you are arguing this because of your NEED to somehow be proven right?

Whether or not I have been in that program or know people who have followed the program is entirely irrelevant in this discussion. Actually, it was Disney Villain himself was affirmed my suspicion: that they are being overworked, stressed out and underpaid. And I haven't heard anybody else who was in that program on this board denying that. So I think your ad hominem attack falls flat awfully fast.

pap64 wrote:
If they saw everything and come out saying that everything was worth it in the end, WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE THEM FOR IT? They are not being dumb for expressing genuine happiness and gratitude for this. Does this mean that the experience is flawless and worthy for everyone? Of course not, everyone walks away with something different, something positive or something negative. If the people I mentioned felt it was worth it enough to do it multiple times, I believe them.

Yet I haven't seen any of them deny what Disney Villain said. He said people in the Disney College Program are being overworked and underpaid and nobody denied that. Instead, they defended it. Their argument comes down to this: 'yes, you are treated like shit, but that's okay, because it only lasts two semesters at most and the experience is worth it'. I'm not arguing that their experiences have not been great *to them*; I'm just saying I think they have been taken advantage of by Disney and cheer that on. And like Lazario added, this enables the multibillion dollar corporation to continue these ugly practices.

pap64 wrote:
So again, the only reason you are calling them dumb is because of your desire to always be proven right at all times, to the point where you insult people that have made the sacrifices and lived the experiences because they don't fit your agenda.

If you can't adress me without ad hominem attacks, please refrain from it. I called the practice of cheering on the abuse from the part of the employer a dumb thing to do. That's what I said. And you don't have to paint them like martyrs who made 'sacrifices'. They made the choice themselves entirely voluntarily to be overworked and underpaid just because the corporation's name was 'Disney'. If you can't see that, you have blinders on. This is not about me wanting to be right. This is about a corporation with questionable ethics taking advantage of people who are blinded by the 'Disney' label.

pap64 wrote:
Plus, YOU INSULTED MY FRIENDS. I consider Disney Villain and blackcauldron amazing friends of mine whose trust I have given them beyond just Disney worship. If you want to argue the value of the College Program, fine, but don't be insulting anyone just because they happen to disagree with you.

I didn't and quit the drama. If you want to start a flamefest, do it somewhere else.

SWillie! wrote:
"What kind of fairy-tale bullshit is this?" Well, Goliath... it's the kind you don't believe in. I do. I think the Walt Disney Company, through it's many flaws, creates something special in children and families all over the world. Something that isn't created by McDonald's, since you seem fond of that comparison. And to me, personally, the experience of being a part of creating that something special is the reward in and of itself, and I could not give two shits about the money or the hours. I am a part of the magic that I have wanted to be a part of my entire life. [...]

Fine, good for you. But what has all their magic, their animated classics that you grew up with; that special place they had in your childhood; their beloved and world-famous characters etc. got to do with overworking and underpaying people? Couldn't Disney be just as magical and just as fun for you and everybody else with decent pay, with decent hours, with decent working conditions? Or wouldn't it be 'magical' anymore then, since you wouldn't feel overworked and underappreciated like Cinderella? Is that part of the 'experience'? Disney is a multibillion dollar corporation which makes absurd profits. Then why is it necessary to take advantage of impressionable adolescents? They make enough money already by having the merchandise they sell in the parks made in sweatshops in China and India anyway.

It's really not a question of 'magical experience' or not. It's a matter of rationality. And there's nothing rational in letting your love for animated movies from your childhood make you accept too long working hours for too little money. You have rights and you should demand them; not throw them away because their name is 'Disney'. Doing that, is devotion. Blind devotion. Do you think Disney gives a flying f--- about how you feel about them or their 'magic'?

SWillie! wrote:
College Program participants are, for the most part, overworked and underpaid. Like I said, many weeks I worked 55-60 hours/week, and yet I still pretty much lived on Mac and Cheese during my program. The pay could be better, to put it nicely.

Well, there you have it, pap64: more confirmation of what I was saying. It's strange that, instead of fighting injustice, people (regular working people!) defend it. But your post has made one realize I'll never visit a Disney Park in my life ever again. Thanks.

SWillie! wrote:
Call it fairy tale bullshit if you want, but please acknowledge that there are plenty of those such as myself that really do believe in it.

I DO call it that, but all I'm saying is that you could have all what you described above WITHOUT being overworked and underpaid and all the other things you wrote negatively about. There's no justification for that and should not be defended.

enigmawing wrote:
Yes, it is uncalled for actually.

No, it is not. This is a forum and everybody is entitled to their own opinions and can wage in whenever they want and say whatever they want.

enigmawing wrote:
Most of us in the states have to start out at minimum wage jobs regardless, but if someone can get their foot in at Disney and get all the perks with the possibility of moving up in the company, more power to them. And hell, with the economy the way it is right now people are lucky to find jobs period; you should have seen the struggles I went through in WI just trying to keep a roof over my head.

But what is the answer to bad payment for jobs in which you're being overworked? Is that to collectively rise up and demand better pay and better working conditions? Or is to collectively defend them and delude yourselves by saying "the experience made it worth it"? Because that's the part you're leaving out. People here said they loved doing it. Not that they had to it, or had no other options. And minimum wage jobs can be defined a lot of ways. I worked minimum wage jobs, but I wasn't overworked and underpaid.

enigmawing wrote:
Argue all you want about Disney being an "evil corporation," but the reason a lot of us are here in this forum is because we love the material the company produces, and many still dream of being a part of the "magic" that we grew up with and still experience to this day.

Like I said before to SWillie!, nothing of that is connected to letting yourself be underpaid and overworked. Your magical and nostalgic feelings about Disney's animated films have nothing to do with a multibillion dollar corporation making extra money of your backs. They don't have to take advantage of people to be that same 'magic' company. One is unrelated to the other.

enigmawing wrote:
You can have your opinion of course, but it's really inappropriate and disrespectful to be calling our members "dumb," especially in a thread like this. If you want to question the company's integrity go start a different thread for it, but don't be bashing any members here for taking the first steps to following their dream.

I'm not saying they're dumb as persons; I'm saying it's dumb doing what they're doing. The act of doing that is dumb. And if that sounds condescending... good! I HOPE it sounds like that. It SHOULD sound like that. Because maybe then, people would stop making up phony excuses for the malpractices of a corporation.

I'm being disrespectful? You are being disrespectful to YOURSELVES for allowing a corporation to overwork and underpay you and to cover that fact up by defending them. They lower you and you LET THEM lower you. And THAT, dear enigma, is disrespectful.

Escapay wrote:
Secondly, I just want to say BRAVO!!!!! to SWillie! for his well-written and wonderfully thorough post. You did an excellent job explaining what it really means to work for The Walt Disney Company.

He really did. He explained how careless the employer is about guest experience; how they strain their cast members; how they let them work ridiculous hours; what low pay they get. I'm not the only one who read that part, right? Like I said to enigmawing: I think people are disrespecting themselves for putting up with that shit. And like I said to SWillie!, all those 'magical' experiences could have happened anyway, just with decent hours, decent working conditions and decent pay. I always thought you were a really smart guy, Escapay. So why are you applauding a post that doesn't acknowledge that what I just said is true; a post that celebrates corporate abuse of employees? Do YOU think you need to feel like Cinderella or else there is no 'magic'? Why are they mutually exclusive to you?

Escapay wrote:
In addition, I'd like to share an excerpt from Mouse Tales, a book by David Koenig that talks about working in Disneyland. Koenig never worked in the theme park, he interviewed many people who did. The book itself is not even authorized or endorsed by Disney, it's an unofficial account that talks about the theme park without the rose-colored glasses.

Thanks for sharing that. It totally backs up my arguments. I'm not sure why you posted it, since you said you agreed with SWillie! and this excerpt completely debunks his post. I didn't even use the word "indoctrinate" myself, but Koenig perfectly describes the behavior I was trying to point out.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:22 pm 
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pap64 wrote:
When the company does bad, we should point them out.

To Goliath's credit, he's the UD member whose usually shone the spotlight on the sweatshops that make Disney merchandise.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
Thanks for sharing that. It totally backs up my arguments. I'm not sure why you posted it, since you said you agreed with SWillie! and this excerpt completely debunks his post. I didn't even use the word "indoctrinate" myself, but Koenig perfectly describes the behavior I was trying to point out.


I'm really not sure what you mean by this... I agree with absolutely everything in that excerpt. Yes, we are indoctrinated to live by the "Disney Way." I want that. I don't see anything wrong with that. Isn't this excerpt backing up what I said, not debunking it?? :?


And you have a fair point that the all the magic could still come without the underpayment and overworking. But to that I say that pretty much any job that someone in college is going to get is going to be the same exact pay. Maybe not quite so many hours, but only because most other jobs are not around-the-clock operations like Disney is.

I don't how entry level jobs work where you are, but here, you don't make more than minimum wage. Period. If you want to make more than minimum wage, you need to be a job a good number of years, or you need to go to college and get a skilled job. If I went to college to be a _____ and then got a job at Disney doing _____, with the same conditions and pay as CPs receive, then there would be a problem. But the jobs are not skilled positions, and so don't deserve any higher pay than any other unskilled job.

To use myself as an example, I started work at a pizza place several years ago, and was only making 6 something when I started out. Minimum wage. Now several years later minimum wage is 7 something and I make 8.00/hour. So it's hardly like the 7 something that CPs at Disney make is lower than the average, still-in-college, job.

So yes, while I know I said that "CPs are overworked and underpaid"... I really don't think I or anyone else deserves more money for the job that is being done, unless every college aged kid in America deserves more money for the job they're doing. Which I don't think is true.


**I also should point out that any hours worked over 40 hours are paid as "time and a half" and any hours either over 80 hours or shifts less than 8 hours apart are paid as "double time". So it's not like we're working 60 hours a week and literally making 7 something for each of those 60 hours.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:26 pm 
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SWillie! wrote:
I'm really not sure what you mean by this... I agree with absolutely everything in that excerpt. Yes, we are indoctrinated to live by the "Disney Way." I want that. I don't see anything wrong with that. Isn't this excerpt backing up what I said, not debunking it?? :?

No, because it shows how people are made to believe that their underpaid jobs are the greatest things ever. It's not like you can't make friends and have great experiences only at Disney's. And it's not like you need to be overworked and underpaid for that. Yet these people seem to believe that. Like Koenig said, that's "indoctrination". And it's very sad to admit you want that. Which person in his right mind wants indoctrination? "Indoctrination"; you know what that means, right?

SWillie! wrote:
I don't how entry level jobs work where you are, but here, you don't make more than minimum wage. Period.

Oh, that's the same here, too. I think minimum wage is higher over here than it is in the States, but remember I wasn't only talking about underpayment, but also being overworked and bad working conditions.

SWillie! wrote:
But the jobs are not skilled positions, and so don't deserve any higher pay than any other unskilled job.

But it should be a LIVING wage and you shouldn't be overworked and stressed out. They have more work to do? They can hire more people; not overload their existing employees.

SWillie! wrote:
So yes, while I know I said that "CPs are overworked and underpaid"... I really don't think I or anyone else deserves more money for the job that is being done.

:shock: How can we win the class warfare that's being waged against us when we stick up for the ones doing the warfare?

SWillie! wrote:
**I also should point out that any hours worked over 40 hours are paid as "time and a half" and any hours either over 80 hours or shifts less than 8 hours apart are paid as "double time". So it's not like we're working 60 hours a week and literally making 7 something for each of those 60 hours.

From what you and others told me, I was under the impression you were talking about unpaid overtime. Well, this is slightly better. Very slightly. Because 60 hours a week of course isn't acceptable at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:38 pm 
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A minimum wage job doesn't necessarily mean being stressed, overworked, and disrespected.

I think people feel so insulted by Goliath's "dumb" comment (which of course was inappropriate) that they can't see Goliath's arguments about Disney's business practices which admittedly have merit.

Disney, just like every other business, should respect and treat their employees better. The experience working at Disney Parks would be better if the working conditions were improved. The "magic" wouldn't be lost, it would be increased.

I'm glad that people are able to gain positive experiences regardless of the bad working environment but that doesn't change the fact that conditions need to improve both for short-term and long-term employees. Just because other businesses operate that same way doesn't give Disney a free pass to do the same. At least other businesses are openly criticized for it while Disney is rarely criticized because of the adoring fanbase.

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Deleted: This was in the wrong place.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:23 pm 
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Goliath wrote:
:shock: How can we win the class warfare that's being waged against us when we stick up for the ones doing the warfare?


I just really don't think that anyone deserves more than 7 or 8 dollars an hour for ringing people up on a register or putting people on a ride. And when we're not doing that, we're just playing with the guests. So... I don't see that as warfare. I honestly don't think I deserve more pay. I would of course take it, if I were given the option... but I don't really need it, and I don't feel I'm working hard enough to deserve it.

Also, I know I might explode some people's minds when I say this, but... I actually enjoyed working the long hours, and there are many other people that do. While 60 hours is definitely a long week, if I were to see my schedule posted with 50 or 55, I'd be genuinely excited. There are many people that wouldn't be scheduled as much, and would gladly pick up hours until they DID have a solid 50 or 55 hour week. I knew some people to pick up hours until they had 65 or 70 (which is crazy in my book, but it's true).

So, as long as there are people like me and others, that are genuinely happy and willing to work those kinds of hours, and don't see it as Disney forcing us to, and don't see it as a problem... then, it will obviously never change.

You might hate me for that, but it's the honest to god truth. I like to work, and I'm able to live comfortably enough on the pay I'm making. So I'm happy.

Edit: There are certainly those who don't like working that many hours, and so they are given ample opportunities to give their shift away or trade it for a lighter shift with better hours for them. Basically, as long as the other person is trained in the same things, anyone in the company is allowed to pick up any hours. (With some rules and exceptions, like the person taking the shift cannot be picking up a shift that would give them double-time, for instance.)

Also, part of the reason why I enjoyed working so much is because I was away from home, and so I really didn't have all that much to do. And when I wasn't at work, I'd mostly likely be at the parks with people anyways, so I might as well be getting paid for it. I don't know... I just don't at all feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I'm more than happy to work this much for this amount of money.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Also, are the laundry machines coin-op?

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Sotiris wrote:
A minimum wage job doesn't necessarily mean being stressed, overworked, and disrespected.

Agreed. That's not what I was saying. From the stories of the people who worked in the Disney College Program, it does appear though, that people *were* being overworked and underpaid.

Sotiris wrote:
Disney, just like every other business, should respect and treat their employees better. The experience working at Disney Parks would be better if the working conditions were improved. The "magic" wouldn't be lost, it would be increased.

I'm glad that people are able to gain positive experiences regardless of the bad working environment but that doesn't change the fact that conditions need to improve both for short-term and long-term employees. Just because other businesses operate that same way doesn't give Disney a free pass to do the same. At least other businesses are openly criticized for it while Disney is rarely criticized because of the adoring fanbase.

That's exactly what I wanted to say. Literally; you just wrote exactly what I meant. I'm glad people had positive experiences; I want them to have positive experiences! I just don't think being overworked, stressed out and underpaid should be a part of "a great experience". Disney is a multibillion dollar corporation which can stand to hire enough employees (as to not overwork their current employees) and can stand to pay them better for the hard work they do. Wouldn't that make the experience even better?!

And there's another point I wanted to add to it. SWillie! said that, no, of course he wouldn't take the same shit (the overtime and low payment) from McDonalds, but he would from Disney. Gladly. And he's not the only one voicing that sentiment. My point is that it's not a smart thing to do to worship corporations and let them take advantage of you, regardless of their name and fame. The corporation Disney that employs and pays you has got nothing to do with the classic films, cartoons and comics you grew up with as a kid. This is not the Disney anymore from the times of Walt and Roy.

SWillie! wrote:
I just really don't think that anyone deserves more than 7 or 8 dollars an hour for ringing people up on a register or putting people on a ride. And when we're not doing that, we're just playing with the guests. So... I don't see that as warfare. I honestly don't think I deserve more pay. I would of course take it, if I were given the option... but I don't really need it, and I don't feel I'm working hard enough to deserve it.

Why don't you deserve more than $8 an hour, but does a CEO deserve 400 times (four hundred times) the amount of money you make? And why does a CEO deserve a bonus of million dollars on top of that salary? And why does a CEO deserve that even when he has run his company into the ground? As has happened with all those bankers who created the current financial and economic crisis? They get all that for malpractice, yet you are working your ass off and couldn't even pay for a decent meal (you said you had to resort to fastfood)? You pay more in taxes than predator capitalist and multimillionaire Mitt Romney, who only pays 15% in taxes on the $43 million he made last year. And you don't think there's class warfare waged against the working people? Inside which bubble do you live? And why do you disrespect yourself by saying you're not worth a better salary? Do you think the head of Goldman Sachs, the prime responsible player for the 2008 meltdown, would say the same about his salary?

SWillie! wrote:
Also, I know I might explode some people's minds when I say this, but... I actually enjoyed working the long hours, and there are many other people that do. While 60 hours is definitely a long week, if I were to see my schedule posted with 50 or 55, I'd be genuinely excited.

Are you into sadomasochism?

Serious question.

Because you seem to like inflict pain on yourself... ?

SWillie! wrote:
So, as long as there are people like me and others, that are genuinely happy and willing to work those kinds of hours, and don't see it as Disney forcing us to, and don't see it as a problem... then, it will obviously never change.

Five minutes of talking with you would have made Karl Marx put off writing 'Das Kapital'. :lol:

SWillie! wrote:
You might hate me for that, but it's the honest to god truth.

Don't be silly, why should I hate you? I think your attitude is hurting any chance of getting Disney to treat their employees better. But I most certainly don't hate you.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:00 am 
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Goliath wrote:
Why don't you deserve more than $8 an hour, but does a CEO deserve 400 times (four hundred times) the amount of money you make? And why does a CEO deserve a bonus of million dollars on top of that salary? And why does a CEO deserve that even when he has run his company into the ground? As has happened with all those bankers who created the current financial and economic crisis? They get all that for malpractice, yet you are working your ass off and couldn't even pay for a decent meal (you said you had to resort to fastfood)? You pay more in taxes than predator capitalist and multimillionaire Mitt Romney, who only pays 15% in taxes on the $43 million he made last year. And you don't think there's class warfare waged against the working people? Inside which bubble do you live? And why do you disrespect yourself by saying you're not worth a better salary? Do you think the head of Goldman Sachs, the prime responsible player for the 2008 meltdown, would say the same about his salary?

I don't think that the CEOs deserve the amount they get at all. You're right, the amount they get in salary and bonuses is ludicrous. But I think the way to fix that would be to pay them less, not pay me (or the rest of us little folk) more. That's what I meant by saying that I don't feel I deserve more for the actual job I am doing. I don't feel that's disrespecting myself... I'm not saying *I'm* not worth a better salary, I'm saying *the job* isn't worth a better salary. You can bet your ass that when and if I land a job as an animator I better be getting paid a whole hell of lot more. Because the job is much harder and more involved in every way.

I also don't pretend to think there is no class warfare. It really does suck that things are the way they are, but like I said, I don't feel that fighting for a few more bucks for myself is the way to solve that issue. That issue can only be solved when the upper classes are being paid less. It's a vicious circle, unfortunately.

I love how you say "resort to fast food" :lol: You have to remember that in America, fast food is the norm. I'd be eating it even if I was rolling in it. Yeah it's not great, but I wasn't sitting there eating it like "my god I wish I made more money so I didn't have to eat this right now." haha

Goliath wrote:
Are you into sadomasochism? Serious question. Because you seem to like inflict pain on yourself... ?

Hah! Not quite. I really don't feel that 50-55 hour workweeks are really all that crazy. Like I said, I mean... I really didn't have a whole lot better to do down there. I'm away from family, and the friends I had made were mostly on the program as well, so days off were really only spent getting chores done.

Especially with this kind of job. I mean, there's so much going on that your shift goes by pretty quick and you're having fun a lot of the time, so at the end of a long shift it doesn't feel like "ohhhhhh gooddddd that was such a long day, I need to rest my bones." In comparison, I worked a 14 hour shift today at the pizzaria at home here in Michigan (11-1), and right now I'm exhausted. If I ever had to work a 50-55 hour week here, I'd want to kill myself.

I don't know... I guess longer workweeks just aren't very daunting to me at this point in my life. Down the road when I have a family and whatnot, I'm sure that will change. Just like it does for most people who stay on longer with Disney. The full time employees rarely go over 40-45 hrs/week, because they're no longer college kids with nothing better to do.

Goliath wrote:
Don't be silly, why should I hate you? I think your attitude is hurting any chance of getting Disney to treat their employees better. But I most certainly don't hate you.

Well, good to hear haha. I know my attitude is doing just that. But seriously, I think even though I know I see things through Disney-tinted glasses, I think you really do have an idea in mind of how things go at Disney that is much worse than it really is.

I mean honestly, the only issues we're talking about here are hours and pay. I don't think that means that Disney treats their employees "bad". The actual working conditions, i.e. what it is physically like to work in the places Cast Members work, are fine. The spaces are clean and safe... the people are always incredibly friendly, even the managers and executives... they hold several special events for Cast Members, there are all the perks that I mentioned that come with the job.

I mean, let's pretend for a minute that I did hate long hours and I did wish I was being paid more. Those would still really be the only real gripes I could have about how I was being treated as an individual employee.

I don't think the biggest issue in the parks is with the treatment of employees - I think it's in many of the guest experiences that need attention. They seem to do their best, but they need to be doing better. For instance, the incredibly long Rapunzel lines that I mentioned. They're finally going to be putting Rapunzel is Epcot as well, which will double the amount of people that are able to meet her in a given time. But why did this take so long to do? They've tried taking Flynn away to get rid of some guests, but that just upset people more. (He will be joining her again at Epcot, thankfully). Just things like that... things that could make a guest's experience in the parks a better one.

I think Disney needs to focus on the guests, because the majority of the Cast Members are perfectly happy, and would rather see Disney put their focus on improving guest satisfaction. Because as I and others have said - the Cast Members really are there for the guests. We get excited when they are excited. We get emotional when they get emotional. We have so much of our lives invested in these parks, that we want to see people enjoying them the way they ought to be enjoyed. Long hours and fast food is a small price to pay for that.


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