I getcha now...I thought you were saying bad things about people who want to work for Disney through the College Program...
I was saying it's dumb to be excited to be overworked and underpaid just because the company's name is 'Disney'.
Disney are clearly manipulating people and they can do better but they won't because thanks to the enthusiasm of people wanting to be a part of this - they won't have to. There's a lesson to be learned here and Disney will never learn it if people continue to let them peddle this kind of "the experience is its' own reward" garbage.
Thank you, that's exactly what I meant! You worded it better than I did. But that's exactly what it is: regular people cowering and crawling for a multibillion dollar corporation. What's the difference with the people who let themselves get humiliated and treated like a doormath by Donald Trump on national tv in Celebrity Apprentice
? Oh, right, their name is 'Disney', how stupid of me to forget...
Goliath, let me ask you something... How many people do YOU know did the Disney College Program? Have they told you EVERYTHING that goes on in the program to the point where you come to the conclusion that it is bad, or are you jumping to the conclusion because you are this radical man that must fight against the establishment and thus you are arguing this because of your NEED to somehow be proven right?
Whether or not I have been in that program or know people who have followed the program is entirely irrelevant in this discussion. Actually, it was Disney Villain himself was affirmed my suspicion: that they are being overworked, stressed out and underpaid. And I haven't heard anybody else who was in that program on this board denying that. So I think your ad hominem attack falls flat awfully fast.
If they saw everything and come out saying that everything was worth it in the end, WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE THEM FOR IT? They are not being dumb for expressing genuine happiness and gratitude for this. Does this mean that the experience is flawless and worthy for everyone? Of course not, everyone walks away with something different, something positive or something negative. If the people I mentioned felt it was worth it enough to do it multiple times, I believe them.
Yet I haven't seen any of them deny what Disney Villain said. He said people in the Disney College Program are being overworked and underpaid and nobody denied that. Instead, they defended it. Their argument comes down to this: 'yes, you are treated like shit, but that's okay, because it only lasts two semesters at most and the experience is worth it'. I'm not arguing that their experiences have not been great *to them*; I'm just saying I think they have been taken advantage of by Disney and cheer that on. And like Lazario added, this enables the multibillion dollar corporation to continue these ugly practices.
So again, the only reason you are calling them dumb is because of your desire to always be proven right at all times, to the point where you insult people that have made the sacrifices and lived the experiences because they don't fit your agenda.
If you can't adress me without ad hominem attacks, please refrain from it. I called the practice of cheering on the abuse from the part of the employer a dumb thing to do. That's what I said. And you don't have to paint them like martyrs who made 'sacrifices'. They made the choice themselves entirely voluntarily to be overworked and underpaid just because the corporation's name was 'Disney'. If you can't see that, you have blinders on. This is not about me wanting to be right. This is about a corporation with questionable ethics taking advantage of people who are blinded by the 'Disney' label.
Plus, YOU INSULTED MY FRIENDS. I consider Disney Villain and blackcauldron amazing friends of mine whose trust I have given them beyond just Disney worship. If you want to argue the value of the College Program, fine, but don't be insulting anyone just because they happen to disagree with you.
I didn't and quit the drama. If you want to start a flamefest, do it somewhere else.
"What kind of fairy-tale bullshit is this?" Well, Goliath... it's the kind you don't believe in. I do. I think the Walt Disney Company, through it's many flaws, creates something special in children and families all over the world. Something that isn't created by McDonald's, since you seem fond of that comparison. And to me, personally, the experience of being a part of creating that something special is the reward in and of itself, and I could not give two shits about the money or the hours. I am a part of the magic that I have wanted to be a part of my entire life. [...]
Fine, good for you. But what has all their magic, their animated classics that you grew up with; that special place they had in your childhood; their beloved and world-famous characters etc. got to do with overworking and underpaying people? Couldn't Disney be just as magical and just as fun for you and everybody else with decent pay, with decent hours, with decent working conditions? Or wouldn't it be 'magical' anymore then, since you wouldn't feel overworked and underappreciated like Cinderella? Is that part of the 'experience'? Disney is a multibillion dollar corporation which makes absurd profits. Then why is it necessary to take advantage of impressionable adolescents? They make enough money already by having the merchandise they sell in the parks made in sweatshops in China and India anyway.
It's really not a question of 'magical experience' or not. It's a matter of rationality. And there's nothing rational in letting your love for animated movies from your childhood make you accept too long working hours for too little money. You have rights and you should demand them; not throw them away because their name is 'Disney'. Doing that, is devotion. Blind devotion. Do you think Disney gives a flying f--- about how you feel about them or their 'magic'?
College Program participants are, for the most part, overworked and underpaid. Like I said, many weeks I worked 55-60 hours/week, and yet I still pretty much lived on Mac and Cheese during my program. The pay could be better, to put it nicely.
Well, there you have it, pap64: more confirmation of what I was saying. It's strange that, instead of fighting injustice, people (regular working people!) defend it. But your post has made one realize I'll never visit a Disney Park in my life ever again. Thanks.
Call it fairy tale bullshit if you want, but please acknowledge that there are plenty of those such as myself that really do believe in it.
I DO call it that, but all I'm saying is that you could have all what you described above WITHOUT being overworked and underpaid and all the other things you wrote negatively about. There's no justification for that and should not be defended.
Yes, it is uncalled for actually.
No, it is not. This is a forum and everybody is entitled to their own opinions and can wage in whenever they want and say whatever they want.
Most of us in the states have to start out at minimum wage jobs regardless, but if someone can get their foot in at Disney and get all the perks with the possibility of moving up in the company, more power to them. And hell, with the economy the way it is right now people are lucky to find jobs period; you should have seen the struggles I went through in WI just trying to keep a roof over my head.
But what is the answer to bad payment for jobs in which you're being overworked? Is that to collectively rise up and demand better pay and better working conditions? Or is to collectively defend them and delude yourselves by saying "the experience made it worth it"? Because that's the part you're leaving out. People here said they loved doing it. Not that they had to it, or had no other options. And minimum wage jobs can be defined a lot of ways. I worked minimum wage jobs, but I wasn't overworked and underpaid.
Argue all you want about Disney being an "evil corporation," but the reason a lot of us are here in this forum is because we love the material the company produces, and many still dream of being a part of the "magic" that we grew up with and still experience to this day.
Like I said before to SWillie!, nothing of that is connected to letting yourself be underpaid and overworked. Your magical and nostalgic feelings about Disney's animated films have nothing to do with a multibillion dollar corporation making extra money of your backs. They don't have to take advantage of people to be that same 'magic' company. One is unrelated to the other.
You can have your opinion of course, but it's really inappropriate and disrespectful to be calling our members "dumb," especially in a thread like this. If you want to question the company's integrity go start a different thread for it, but don't be bashing any members here for taking the first steps to following their dream.
I'm not saying they're dumb as persons; I'm saying it's dumb doing what they're doing
. The act of doing that is dumb. And if that sounds condescending... good! I HOPE it sounds like that. It SHOULD sound like that. Because maybe then, people would stop making up phony excuses for the malpractices of a corporation.
I'm being disrespectful? You are being disrespectful to YOURSELVES for allowing a corporation to overwork and underpay you and to cover that fact up by defending them. They lower you and you LET THEM lower you. And THAT, dear enigma, is disrespectful.
Secondly, I just want to say BRAVO!!!!! to SWillie! for his well-written and wonderfully thorough post. You did an excellent job explaining what it really means to work for The Walt Disney Company.
He really did. He explained how careless the employer is about guest experience; how they strain their cast members; how they let them work ridiculous hours; what low pay they get. I'm not the only one who read that part, right? Like I said to enigmawing: I think people are disrespecting themselves for putting up with that shit. And like I said to SWillie!, all those 'magical' experiences could have happened anyway, just with decent hours, decent working conditions and decent pay. I always thought you were a really smart guy, Escapay. So why are you applauding a post that doesn't acknowledge that what I just said is true; a post that celebrates corporate abuse of employees? Do YOU think you need to feel like Cinderella or else there is no 'magic'? Why are they mutually exclusive to you?
In addition, I'd like to share an excerpt from Mouse Tales, a book by David Koenig that talks about working in Disneyland. Koenig never worked in the theme park, he interviewed many people who did. The book itself is not even authorized or endorsed by Disney, it's an unofficial account that talks about the theme park without the rose-colored glasses.
Thanks for sharing that. It totally backs up my arguments. I'm not sure why you posted it, since you said you agreed with SWillie! and this excerpt completely debunks his post. I didn't even use the word "indoctrinate" myself, but Koenig perfectly describes the behavior I was trying to point out.