DVDizzy.com

Home | Reviews | Schedule | Cover Art | Search The Site
DVDizzy.com Top Stories:

It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:47 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:56 pm 
Offline
Special Edition
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:01 pm
Posts: 469
tweeb² wrote:
Congratulations! BTW are you, THAT nachonaco from the now defunct Alternate Reality Association forums with Kim Possible? If so, you'll remember me haha! I had josepans as a nickname back then.


YEP! :D Nice to see you again, josepans!

_________________
[url='http://www.mickeypath.com/']Image[/url]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:04 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 4749
Location: The Netherlands
SWillie! wrote:
Trust me, whatever job you get won't be the greatest thing in the world. You are on the bottom of the totem pole, and full time employees in some areas look heavily down on CPs. It gets repetitive, guests can be a HUGE pain, and hours can definitely get to you. DON'T LET IT RUIN YOUR EXPERIENCE.

Always remember to keep your eye on the bigger picture - the fact that you are now a Walt Disney World Cast Member, and that there really is no greater opportunity in the world.

Aren't these people all being overworked and underpaid? At least that's what I've heard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
Collector's Edition
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:37 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Windermere, FL
As everyone has already said, the program is what you make it. Your job won't be glamorous, and yea you'll be overworked, underpaid and stressed out at work...but none of that matters because it's just a life changing experience. You'll learn so much about the world and so much about yourself.

You're going to meet people who will change your life. I honestly can't even explain what an experience this is. Just be sure to make the best of it. Go out and meet people, hang out with your roommates/your co-workers and just have fun.

It's basically a several month long vacation in Orlando. The only thing to worry about is work, which will be stressful, but fun all at the same time. This will change your life, as long as you make the best of it.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:24 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 2189
Location: Maryland, USA
Ahhhhhhhh! Congrats! I'm so proud of you. I hope I do the DCP in a couple of years (I'm a senior in high school)

_________________
Image

FAVORITE DISNEY MOVIES: Sleeping Beauty, Meet the Robinsons, Enchanted, The Lion King, Frozen, Wreck-It Ralph, Toy Story 3, Finding Nemo, Brave, and Lilo and Stitch!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:48 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:53 pm
Posts: 2999
Hey, I got accepted into the Program, too! I'll be there in August! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:41 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 3521
Location: Puerto Rico
I have to agree with what some people have said earlier. As corny as it may sound, it truly is what you make out of it. You could be in the greatest experience any human being could ever experience, but it is meaningless if you don't see the best out of it.

The best suggestion I can give you is to let your heart decide. You can take advice, you can take suggestions and tips and you can listen to stories if you want. In the end, what matters is what YOU take out of it, and what YOU take out of it will always be different.

If this is your dream, bless you for chasing it. Just keep an open mind always, try to enjoy the good and tolerate the bad and write your story from there.

_________________
ImageImageImageImage

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:46 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 2528
Goliath wrote:
Aren't these people all being overworked and underpaid? At least that's what I've heard.

In a lot of cases, very much so. At least the College Program kids are. During peak times, I was being scheduled around 55-60 hours a week, being paid $7.15/hour. There were some that got off better, some that were worse. It depends on where you work. Being seasonal now I make a little more, and they don't schedule me anywhere near that.

But like I said, if you're in the right mindset, none of that matters. I would be happy to do this job for free if I didn't have to make money to pay bills. To put it bluntly, if the money or hours matter to you, you're not the right kind of person for Disney World.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:01 am 
Offline
Special Edition
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:01 pm
Posts: 469
SWillie! wrote:
Goliath wrote:
Aren't these people all being overworked and underpaid? At least that's what I've heard.

In a lot of cases, very much so. At least the College Program kids are. During peak times, I was being scheduled around 55-60 hours a week, being paid $7.15/hour. There were some that got off better, some that were worse. It depends on where you work. Being seasonal now I make a little more, and they don't schedule me anywhere near that.

But like I said, if you're in the right mindset, none of that matters. I would be happy to do this job for free if I didn't have to make money to pay bills. To put it bluntly, if the money or hours matter to you, you're not the right kind of person for Disney World.


I'll be making 7.67/hr.

_________________
[url='http://www.mickeypath.com/']Image[/url]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:42 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 4749
Location: The Netherlands
Disney Villain wrote:
As everyone has already said, the program is what you make it. Your job won't be glamorous, and yea you'll be overworked, underpaid and stressed out at work...but none of that matters because it's just a life changing experience. You'll learn so much about the world and so much about yourself.

Yay for being overworked, underpaid and stressed out! What an opportunity! What a great experience! I can't wait to find job where I can be overworked and underpaid myself! It's all I ever dreamed about! :roll:

SWillie! wrote:
But like I said, if you're in the right mindset, none of that matters. I would be happy to do this job for free if I didn't have to make money to pay bills. To put it bluntly, if the money or hours matter to you, you're not the right kind of person for Disney World.

What kind of fairy tale bullshit is this? This is the *real* world we're talking about. It's a real job; it's not charity. Why would you let others take advantage of you that way? Because they have the name 'Disney' on it? Would you do the same for McDonalds? Just because their name is 'Disney' doesn't mean they should be able to fuck you. But I see there are lots of people here lining up, bended over already.

Who needs politicians, big business and lobbyists to cut salaries, cut benefits and cut paid overtime when there are people DUMB enough to stand in lines to ask for it?! :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:46 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 10419
Location: USA
^ That's almost uncalled for. Especially for people in the College Program, it IS an experience. They're in college. Most of them won't always be working for minimum wage, but for a semester or two, they'll get to explore and make friends. Some people don't return to college (not necessarily just people in the College Program, but some people who work even at other theme parks, without a College Program), will stay at that job after college, but I mean, in general, they will move on to bigger and better things, some within the Walt Disney Company.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:49 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 4749
Location: The Netherlands
blackcauldron85 wrote:
^ That's almost uncalled for.

No, it's not uncalled for. Not at all.

When people are celebrating being overworked and stressed out while being underpaid, just because the company has the name 'Disney' on it, they are DUMB people. If you wanted that experience, you could've gone to work for McDonalds.

How can one be so worshipping of Disney when they know they treat their employees badly?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:57 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 10419
Location: USA
^ Because it's one or two semesters of their life. It's not like they'll be working there forever. When you're in the College Program, it's not about the money. A lot of the students wouldn't be working while in school, so it's a bonus that they'll be making something during their brief stint working for Disney.

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this.


(For me, when I worked at WDW, I wasn't in the College Program. I was in college, but I needed the money to support myself, and I ended up quitting for more than one reason, but the pay wasn't worth it for me. But it's different if you live there with the other students...the College Program is unique and while I hung out with College Program students, if you're not actually in the program, you can never fully understand the immersive experience.)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:08 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 4749
Location: The Netherlands
blackcauldron85 wrote:
^ Because it's one or two semesters of their life. It's not like they'll be working there forever. When you're in the College Program, it's not about the money. A lot of the students wouldn't be working while in school, so it's a bonus that they'll be making something during their brief stint working for Disney.

Why does that matter? So just because you're there only for two semesters and/or because you're a college student, it's okay to overwork and underpay people? Why can't Disney, a multibillion dollar corporation, pay them properly and improve their working conditions? And is it okay for 'regular' people who *do* work fulltime at Disney to be overworked and underpaid, just because *you* get out of there after two months? Accepting being taken advantage of and accepting it happening to other people is always DUMB. Even if it is 'Disney' (or, as Disney comic artist Don Rosa called it, "the evil company").


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:14 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 10419
Location: USA
I getcha now...I thought you were saying bad things about people who want to work for Disney through the College Program...

But yes, the minimum wage absolutely needs to be raised. It's not a living wage whatsoever. I completely agree with you on that one.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:20 pm 
Offline
Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:35 am
Posts: 8296
Location: Shock and Awe Gender: Freakazoid
Goliath wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:
^ Because it's one or two semesters of their life. It's not like they'll be working there forever. When you're in the College Program, it's not about the money. A lot of the students wouldn't be working while in school, so it's a bonus that they'll be making something during their brief stint working for Disney.

Why does that matter? So just because you're there only for two semesters and/or because you're a college student, it's okay to overwork and underpay people? Why can't Disney, a multibillion dollar corporation, pay them properly and improve their working conditions? And is it okay for 'regular' people who *do* work fulltime at Disney to be overworked and underpaid, just because *you* get out of there after two months? Accepting being taken advantage of and accepting it happening to other people is always DUMB. Even if it is 'Disney' (or, as Disney comic artist Don Rosa called it, "the evil company").

No offense to anyone who thinks this program is great but I agree. Disney are clearly manipulating people and they can do better but they won't because thanks to the enthusiasm of people wanting to be a part of this - they won't have to. There's a lesson to be learned here and Disney will never learn it if people continue to let them peddle this kind of "the experience is its' own reward" garbage. To them, you are doing the job of someone who deserves full pay but because they're Disney, they'll just hold out for people who will take whatever bare minimum they offer.

_________________
Image
4 Disney Atmosphere Images


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:21 pm 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:57 pm
Posts: 3521
Location: Puerto Rico
Goliath, let me ask you something... How many people do YOU know did the Disney College Program? Have they told you EVERYTHING that goes on in the program to the point where you come to the conclusion that it is bad, or are you jumping to the conclusion because you are this radical man that must fight against the establishment and thus you are arguing this because of your NEED to somehow be proven right?

I trust and believe Disney Villain, blackcauldron and everyone else that did the College Program when they said that they enjoyed the experience, flaws and all. Why? BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY THERE. THEY are the ones that got up in the morning and did all the hard work. THEY are the ones that saw everything going on backstage at the parks. THEY are the ones that made friends. THEY are the ones that saw everything good and bad about Disney WITH THEIR OWN EYES.

If they saw everything and come out saying that everything was worth it in the end, WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE THEM FOR IT? They are not being dumb for expressing genuine happiness and gratitude for this. Does this mean that the experience is flawless and worthy for everyone? Of course not, everyone walks away with something different, something positive or something negative. If the people I mentioned felt it was worth it enough to do it multiple times, I believe them.

So again, the only reason you are calling them dumb is because of your desire to always be proven right at all times, to the point where you insult people that have made the sacrifices and lived the experiences because they don't fit your agenda.

Plus, YOU INSULTED MY FRIENDS. I consider Disney Villain and blackcauldron amazing friends of mine whose trust I have given them beyond just Disney worship. If you want to argue the value of the College Program, fine, but don't be insulting anyone just because they happen to disagree with you.

_________________
ImageImageImageImage

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:37 pm 
Offline
Platinum Edition
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 10419
Location: USA
Just to be clear, I worked at WDW but I wasn't in the College Program...but I did work for them while in college. It definitely had its ups and downs for me. I got into the parks for free and got to work in a park. I got to experience the behind-the-scenes stuff. While I didn't stay in touch with anyone, I had friends while working there. It really was neat, being a Disney fan, to have the training and see what goes on where the guests can't see.

On the flip side, though, it's hard to support yourself on any low paying job (I've always done it, but that's why I'm back in school- it's not fun). The drive to work alone wasn't worth the pay I got. I was in school and often had to work into the wee hours of school mornings, so I didn't get much sleep. I was having a medical problem at the time that I wasn't yet on medication for, so I would get sick and have to take a break or just leave work early, which put strain on my managers.

So, the good and the bad were both there.

I can absolutely see the point of view of Disney is taking advantage of its workers. Cast members do work some crazy hours. At least when I worked there in 2004, you had the option sometimes of adding onto your shift. I never did because I didn't like the job enough to do that and standing all day sucks :p, but it's an option, so that helps people's money situation (but in turn, you're working more hours and losing out on family time or relaxation time). And the point about Disney hiring the College Progam workers instead of more full-time workers...there is such turn-over for jobs such as the ones available at the parks (like cashering, fast food, etc.), that that's not even an issue. And the College Program kids add so much to the parks. I mean, at Epcot, they have so many people from the represented countries who are there through the College Program. When I lived in Orlando, I loved going to the French bakery to hear the French accents, or learning about Morocco from a cast member. I mean, the cast members greatly add to the park experience.

And if one talks about the low pay at the Disney parks, one also should mention it at countless, countless other similar types of industries.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:49 pm 
Offline
Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:35 am
Posts: 8296
Location: Shock and Awe Gender: Freakazoid
pap64 wrote:
I trust and believe Disney Villain, blackcauldron and everyone else that did the College Program when they said that they enjoyed the experience, flaws and all. Why? BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY THERE. THEY are the ones that got up in the morning and did all the hard work. THEY are the ones that saw everything going on backstage at the parks. THEY are the ones that made friends. THEY are the ones that saw everything good and bad about Disney WITH THEIR OWN EYES.

I'm hearing Amy out right now and even though is specific program isn't what she did, there seem to be some perks involved for working for Disney.

I'm not flipping, Disney still seem to be in the wrong. But, I will ask first: Disney Villain, what are the perks of this program?

_________________
Image
4 Disney Atmosphere Images


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:18 am 
Offline
Walt Disney Treasure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 2528
(Edit: sorry this is so long, haha... I just really do love my job.)

My two cents about the term "underpaid" - I lived on minimum wage at Disney, and lived perfectly comfortably. Is it low pay? Yes... but why do I need more if I'm already living comfortably?

"What kind of fairy-tale bullshit is this?" Well, Goliath... it's the kind you don't believe in. I do. I think the Walt Disney Company, through it's many flaws, creates something special in children and families all over the world. Something that isn't created by McDonald's, since you seem fond of that comparison. And to me, personally, the experience of being a part of creating that something special is the reward in and of itself, and I could not give two shits about the money or the hours. I am a part of the magic that I have wanted to be a part of my entire life. Is Disney feeding me all of these bullshit lines? Of course they are. But regardless of what made me feel this way growing up... I really, truly feel this way. The fact that you don't is why you would never make a good Cast Member.

Having actually been there, I'll very gladly discuss the ups and downs about the College Program, and being a Cast Member in general.

The Walt Disney Company has a good many flaws. Corporate greed, child "brain-washing", etc etc etc... In the Parks, many of these flaws can easily be seen. College Program participants are, for the most part, overworked and underpaid. Like I said, many weeks I worked 55-60 hours/week, and yet I still pretty much lived on Mac and Cheese during my program. The pay could be better, to put it nicely.

The carelessness of executives when it comes to what a guest experience is really like really got to me sometimes. For example, the face characters are pressured and pressured to fit in as many families as they possibly can in one of their set times. This means that many families wait in line for, literally, two hours or more to meet Rapunzel, and Rapunzel, who of course needs to do the best she can to both make the guests happy and to make her bosses happy, interacts with them for 15-30 seconds at the most. It incredibly disheartening, especially knowing that 'Rapunzel' would give anything to be able to slow things down a bit.

Organization and communication within the company is also questionable. There are plenty of times when something big is happening in one area of the park that another area is never notified about. Or sometimes special events are planned that go laughably wrong because of a lack of simple organization. There were MANY, MANY times when I felt there was a much simpler, easier, faster, better way to do something than how it is done at the parks, but people are reluctant to try something new, because "that's the way we do it."

To put it plainly, there are a number of things that are flawed about the Program, and about the Parks. All of this, plus the fact that backstage areas smell like ass.

But despite all this, I would gladly do it all over again - and like I said, I would gladly do it all for free, if I didn't have to make money to survive.

The perks of being a Cast Member are far the superior to the cons. For the most obvious, physical "perk"... you get into all Disney parks FOR FREE. For someone like me, who will never get enough of them, this is really all I need. With the exception of the water parks during certain seasons, I can go hang out and Magic Kindom or Epcot with my friends, completely for free. Plus, I get a certain number of passes for friends or family that are not Cast Members, so I can treat them to a day (or two or three or four) at the Parks. (As a reminder, a one-day ticket to any Disney Park is $86.)

Other monetary perks - every Cast Member gets a discount on all merchandise (20-50%, depending on the type of Cast Member and the time of year). We get a huge discount on things like Disney Cruise Line, or the Adventures by Disney. Plus several other coupons and gifts (we got the "Studio Appreciation" version of the Toy Story 3 blu-ray when the film became such a hit, for example).

All of that is really great. But it is also very obvious.

The experience of simply meeting all the people I met was a huge part of it for me. Like I mentioned to Khonner - I literally met people from all continents, all over the world. And not just met them - I got to get to know them - I'm still friends with many of them and stay in touch with them today. The sheer number of Cast Members is unbelievable, and you get to meet new people every single day.

Similar to this, you get to DO something new every day. While yes, the majority of my job was simply ringing people up at the register... I get to be in a different store all the time, moving around the park. If there is a special event, they take volunteers to help. For Star Wars Weekends, I got to have lightsaber fights with guests for a weekend. Plus all the special little tasks that need doing - "hey we need someone to run and find a _____ for ____" that take you all sorts of places you've never been.

Also, while many, many, MANY, MANYY guests can be a pain the ass... complaining, smelling, being rude, etc... that one guest that stops and says "you know, this place is amazing. I really appreciate what you guys do here. Thank you for making our vacation memorable" makes it all worth it. Seeing families having fun together is a perk in and of itself.

On the College Program, you share an apt. with 1-5 other people. I had a three bedroom apt, so I was living with 5 other guys. While I unfortunately didn't get along all that well with one of them, I've remained close with the rest and they remain some of my best friends.

So all of this is pretty great. But, for me, the true perks are a little more emotional. And I understand that this might be where I lose some of you. Because this is the "fairy tale bullshit" part. But it really is what makes every hour sacrificed, and every penny not earned, completely worth it for me.

When I was younger, I visited Disney World for the first time. I had always wanted to go, just because what kid doesn't want to go? And when we got there, admittedly, I was maybe a little old to "believe" in some of the stuff. And so, some of the rides, or some of the shows, seemed a little lame to me. But I was there with my younger siblings, both of whom were much younger and more apt to truly buy into the "magic". And so throughout the trip, I really saw things through their eyes. And it really was special to me when my little sister got a hug from Cinderella. And it really was special to me when my brother started shouting "Mickey! Mickey!" when he appeared on stage during one of the shows.

But towards the end of the trip, we stayed to watch the fireworks one last time. And after a week full of all this stuff, the message that the fireworks talked about really hit me. A combination of music, lights, stories, and Jiminy Cricket telling me that all my dreams can come true if I just believe in myself - made me really feel something. And that was the first time that I truly felt "Disney Magic".

Fast forward several years, and here I am in the College Program. And the biggest perk for me is seeing when other young kids feel that Disney Magic for the first time. Watching parents tear up as they watch their kids reaction when they see Mickey for the first time is something that really moves me. Being able to help a guest who has lost their character autograph book by saying "hey, don't worry about it. I happen to be friends with those characters. Why don't I go round them up and I'll have them sign a new book for you, and I'll send it to your hotel room for you." And then doing just that, knowing that I've saved a lot of stress for the parents, and I've kept the "magic" real for the child. "You know Mickey??" kids say.

I could go on and on about examples of "Disney Magic" - I see it everyday. From something small like helping a guest find the exact Mickey shirt that they've been searching for their last three vacations here, to bigger things like organizing a meet and greet with a certain character for a "Make a Wish" foundation guest, because meeting that character was literally their dying wish. It's something real, and it can't be explained to someone that just... doesn't get it. To someone that thinks there is such a thing as "fairy tale bullshit". In my book, fairy tales are real and I not only watch them happen every day, but I get to be a part of them sometimes.

Watching the firework show Wishes is still guaranteed to make me cry, and I still feel that "Magic" in my heart every time.

Call it fairy tale bullshit if you want, but please acknowledge that there are plenty of those such as myself that really do believe in it.

EDIT: I'm going to have to ask that nobody try and "out-do" me with reasons as to why my logic is flawed or what have you. There's not point in trying to argue something like this, as it really just comes down to some people feel the same way I do about "Disney" and about the parks and the job, and others just don't. I won't try and argue to prove I'm "right".

EDIT 2: Another perk I meant to mention - the fact that when you start work at Disney, so many avenues of opportunity open up within the company. Because of it, I've now been invited multiple times to Walt Disney Animation Studios to meet with the Talent Development crew who hires interns, and I will hopefully be interning there this summer. It's been my dream to work at the studio ever since visiting the parks that first time, and now here I am, possibly only a couple months away. That's all thanks to the program.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:59 am 
Offline
Special Edition
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:01 pm
Posts: 469
What are the chances of me being hired full time if I work really really really really hard and awesome?

And can Quick Service Food peoples still participate in pin trading?

_________________
[url='http://www.mickeypath.com/']Image[/url]


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Exabot [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group