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 Post subject: Re: Okay, so...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Amy Medford wrote:
Hello~

Okay, so...since the three images are labelled "A" (Top), "B" (Middle), and "C" (Bottom), does one of them represent the original, official 1991 colors of "Beauty and The Beast"?

Have a Disneylicious day!
:?:


ImageI dunno. I think in this image below, A and B are what look best for her dress, though I still feel I've seen a very lovely whiter version of her skirt...oh well. The image:





yep. This is Jackoleen. No doubt about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:27 pm 
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jpanimation wrote:
Only the 3D disc has the corrected colors. The included 2D disc is the same printing as before. This makes me wonder as to whether Disney is lazy or just unaware of the problem. This is why I urge people to contact them.


WTF. What about those of us who don't want to pay extra for a shitty sideshow gimmick?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Is the shot of Mrs. Potts and Chip still the changed version (following "Something There.")


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Well, all I have to say about the 2D version on the blu-ray is that at least the colors on that aren't as bad as the ones on the 2002 Platinum DVD.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:42 pm 
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eric75 wrote:
Is the shot of Mrs. Potts and Chip still the changed version (following "Something There.")

I think so.

My E-mail back from Disney said this:

Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your interest and are happy to answer your questions.

The 3D Blu-ray is the Theatrical version of the film. The film that you are watching is the same film viewed in theaters. There is no other format for the color available on 3D Blu-ray.

:/

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Haha! "The 3D Blu-ray is the Theatrical version of the film. The film that you are watching is the same film viewed in theaters." The 3D Blu-ray may have the same colors as the version Disney are showing in theaters these days, but that is not the same as to say that it has the colors of the original theatrical release.

The Diamond Blu-ray version was better than the Platinum DVD version, and the 3D Blu-ray version is better than the regular Blu-ray, but the colors are not yet "original" or like in the "theatrical version" as they should be. And it is not the theatrical/original version when they have altered scenes and animation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:40 pm 
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eric75 wrote:
Is the shot of Mrs. Potts and Chip still the changed version (following "Something There.")


Just watched my 3D Blu. The animation for that specific scene is different from the standard 2D Diamond disc. On the 3D edition, Belle and Beast are sitting behind them as the are standing on the doorway. On the 2D Diamond they are facing the opposite direction and they begin to close the doors as the scene cuts.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:18 am 
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I was at a store today and saw that "tale as old as time" book, that is about the making of BATB.
HAS ANYONE SEEN THE FILM STILLS IN THAT BOOK?
Those do look like the original colors, and it's scary, cause they aren't even close to any of the dvds... it's a painful reminder of what used to be.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Over the summer, I went to a used book store 20 minutes from my house. I found a book on Disney animation, big book, hardcover, at least 150 pages and big dimension wise too. I opened it up to find stills from beauty and the beast in what appeared to be the diamond edition colors i.e. the yellow sky during Belle, and the less dimensional ballroom colors. I quickly went to see when it was published. I can't recall if it was 1990 or 1989, but the date was obviously BEFORE the movie was released as the book referred to it as "upcoming." I hate the diamon colors. I think it takes away from the dimensionality of the drawings compared to the VHS colors. However, we don't know which is right. Although, thanks to that book, I believe the diamond colors are correct, sadly. If I get the chance over spring break, I will go back to that bookstore and buy the book if it is still there and post scans.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Two books. One having colors closer to the VHS, one having colors closer to the Diamond Edition. WTH is going on?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:48 pm 
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abenotgabe wrote:
eric75 wrote:
Is the shot of Mrs. Potts and Chip still the changed version (following "Something There.")


Just watched my 3D Blu. The animation for that specific scene is different from the standard 2D Diamond disc. On the 3D edition, Belle and Beast are sitting behind them as the are standing on the doorway. On the 2D Diamond they are facing the opposite direction and they begin to close the doors as the scene cuts.

Not that I don’t trust you, but I’d like some verification on this before we jump the gun, as this bit of evidence would make a very strong case in that the 3D Blu-ray is the corrected / director’s preferred version. Maybe if it was just the colors that are different on the 3D Blu-ray you could argue as which version it is the director’s preferred but if the 3D Blu-ray (the later release) has fixed that bit of animation to match the original theatrical version, it would only confirm it.

I’ve emailed Disney and got the standard reply about passing it a long through the proper channels. Everyone needs to stop asking Disney if the 3D Blu-ray is the correct one and you need to start telling them it is. They don’t know there is a difference between releases and will just read the back of the cover and tell you that it includes the theatrical version. You need to tell them there is a problem, that there is a corrected version available (the 3D Blu-ray) and that you’d very much appreciate it if they would start a replacement program issuing the corrected discs. If you sound informed and confident, then they'll have to take you seriously and in-turn, the issue seriously.

nomad2010 wrote:
I opened it up to find stills from beauty and the beast in what appeared to be the diamond edition colors i.e. the yellow sky during Belle, and the less dimensional ballroom colors.

So it matches the 3D Blu-ray, which I assume is what the directors intended the first time around. I have 8 additional comparisons showing the difference between the 2D and 3D release:

Image
Taken off HTF, but WOW. SOO much better without the red tint

Image
Yellow tint removed (notice the rocks are grey again)
Gaston's jacket is the dark red we all remember it being


Image
Once again a yellow tint was removed

Image
Yellow tint removed and MUCH better contrast

Image
Blue tint removed returning shadow detail and making colors pop
Belle's cape is the darker color we always remember in being


Image
Beast is no longer yellow (I honestly never even noticed how bad it looks until making the comparison)
although the overall brightness levels of the 2D Diamond Edition are closer to the LaserDisc


Image
Orange tint removed, improving contrast and increasing shadow detail
Note: Lefou's pants are the same green seen on the LaserDisc


Image
Red tint removed only to be replaced with a blue tint, neither of which resemble the LaserDisc

Just at first glance, which do you say closer resembles the book you looked in?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:32 pm 
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jpanimation wrote:
Just at first glance, which do you say closer resembles the book you looked in?


Well, what I saw in the book was closer to the top ones. The problem is, with 3D transfers, they have to up the brightness and contrast to avoid dimming the film with the grey tinted 3D glasses. In fact, a lot of companies are now brightening 3D film prints for theatres.

I'm hoping to get to the bookstore today. If I do, I'll post the scans.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:38 pm 
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nomad2010 wrote:
The problem is, with 3D transfers, they have to up the brightness and contrast to avoid dimming the film with the grey tinted 3D glasses.

Still doesn't explain why the colors are different (sometimes by a HUGE margin). Matter of fact, some of the 3D shots are darker then the 2D ones. I think the improved contrast comes from the removal of the colored tints they were placing over the scenes.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:53 pm 
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jpanimation wrote:
I think the improved contrast comes from the removal of the colored tints they were placing over the scenes.

Very much so! Wow, what a difference! However, there are some places I think I like the tints, like Belle's clouds, Gaston's coat, Be Our Guest's chandeliere, the library scene, and I think it makes sense for a bluish mist in the forest. But those are the only good things, and it still should be what they originally intended, no matter what looks better. And can you believe those yellowish rocks in Gaston's scene? Ew! Not normal!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Hmmm...interesting comparison. I was looking at the image of Mrs.Potts jumping... did anyone notice how her line work isnt the same color in the 2 images? Look at her chin for example: in the 2d it is yellowish, in the 3d, its black.
MORE TAMPERING??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:51 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
jpanimation wrote:
I think the improved contrast comes from the removal of the colored tints they were placing over the scenes.

Very much so! Wow, what a difference! However, there are some places I think I like the tints, like Belle's clouds, Gaston's coat, Be Our Guest's chandeliere, the library scene, and I think it makes sense for a bluish mist in the forest. But those are the only good things, and it still should be what they originally intended, no matter what looks better. And can you believe those yellowish rocks in Gaston's scene? Ew! Not normal!

What, you thinkyellow rocks dont exist in nature?
I do think the 3d version looks better, but rocks do come in all sorts of colors.

Anyway, I say screw intent. People don't want intent, they want what looks best. Best can either be what they remember seeing, or revised in some way. But intent is such an intangable concept that if they want to tinker with the originals they should at least release the original as an option. And intent can often evolve without the creator even realizing, which hardly seems fair for the fans.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:00 am 
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Don't worry I knew that Kyle, I meant that the gray rocks look much more natural for the kind of stones used for walls such as that.

Marce82 wrote:
Hmmm...interesting comparison. I was looking at the image of Mrs.Potts jumping... did anyone notice how her line work isnt the same color in the 2 images? Look at her chin for example: in the 2d it is yellowish, in the 3d, its black.
MORE TAMPERING??

I can't be sure but I think it's the dark whatever color Mrs. Pott's is lines blending into the yellower tint in the 2D version.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 am 
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marce's back.

the 3d version is the top one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:35 am 
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Um...no it's not. Read the caption on every image.
And I assume you guys have noticed that for the 3d version, they have added a motion blur to the backgrounds... God, I hope they have a reason for that.
I also noticed in previous screencaps, that some elements in the foreground that were blurred in the original version (to mimic a camera lens) are now in focus (since they will be closer to our eyes in the 3d version).
Tamper tamper tamper.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:00 am 
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As much as I adore the original, dark colors, I've learned to love and appreciate the Blu-Ray ones as well. I just "mute" down the colors to 35 in my Panasonic HTDV and it looks great.

I think the reason I've come to accept the new colors is because I got tired of being disappointed. When we first received the PE, we were horrified to see the result, so we spent nearly a decade hoping they would fix that for the DE.

Once that didn't happen (although the Blu Ray colors are much, much better), I gave up and decided to enjoy it for what it is.

I love Beauty and the Beast so much. Just can't let it ruin my experience anymore.


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