AAAAHHHHHAAAAAA! So you are talking about women who were formerly men! So I *was* right after all!
No.. I was talking about people born as a female (physically) and later transition to present as a man.. Which I believe is the opposite of what you just said.
Wow.. but.. they aren't women. They just aren't. Being a women does not mean having any physical trait. If someone was born with a penis, is there exactly no way that they can ever be a women in your book?
I call bullshit. Twice. One time on gender being a social construct. Either one is a man or a woman. That's it. And second I call bullshit on you knowing pregnant men; especially you *personally* knowing them and them being "several" men. Statistical chances are far too miniscule for that to be true. Besides, like I said, men don't have uteruses. Your whole post seems to me to be one big effort to come off as overly PC, overly inclusive; and overly sensitive over semantics.
I appreciate that you call bullshit, because I do agree that that second part about me personally knowing several men who have been pregnant does seem a little odd without explaining myself. By personal, I meant I am friends with them. I am friends with them because I am actively involved in the genderqueer community, and know a ton about this stuff. No offense, but you seem not to know much about it and are just saying what you think might be true. Gender is, in fact, a social construct, and the fact is undeniable. Ask anyone slightly involved in gender issues. And our gender is whatever we feel we are, not what happens to be in our pants.
Sex is the thing that is determined by nature. What makes us feel more "masculine" or "feminine" based on society's standards is in our brains. Which one can physically see the difference between a standard "male" brain and one who identifies as a women, but was born male. There are SO many different coctails that can make someone like this, a lot actually having a a mosaic of cells with different DNA in them; some XXY, some XX, and so on. I honestly wouldn't be surprised that as more research in intersex individuals is done, that one day all transgender people will be considered to have a form of intersexuality. Just because of the great physical difference between a trans girl and a cis male, before any hormones or surgeries.
No, there isn't a taboo "anymore", because there never was a taboo to begin with, because, as I said, men don't get pregnant. Men don't have a uterus. I am very well-informed about social issues, but if there's one thing I cannot stand it's "concern trolls" (no offense, just an expression) trying to be "inclusive" for the sake of "being inclusive". It's a form of political correctness that I don't like at all. There is nothing wrong with saying that women have a uterus and thus get pregnant and men don't. And the fact that you found one mistake of nature in the news doesn't mean we have to include that one example in a discussion about abortion, because it's a very, very rare deviation of the biological rule. So no, I'm not gonna include men just for semantic's/PC's sake.
I already adressed this above. If there's one mistake of nature in a man on a total of a million men, that's not worth including.
Want me to include statistics? Sadly, the statistics on this stuff aren't the best, because non-cis people aren't exactly safe to put all this on their census. The best estimates range from 1 in every thousand to 1 in every 100,000 being transgender. Thats a little more helpful than pulling numbers out of the air. It's not as rare as thought, though. Unless you were talking about what YOU consider a man is born with a uterus. Which is so wrong. I'll explain why later.
EDIT: It seems the most respected estimate for the number of trans people in the world is one in every 10,000 people are trans women and 1 out of every 25,000 are trans men. Thats not nearly one in a million, and I think it is definitely significant enough to consider in all these issues. Thinking about these people is not being overly inclusive. And these statistics are just for transgender people, mind you, not including intersex people, which, admittedly, are a much smaller percentage of the population.
I understand what you mean by me being over PC just for the sake of being overly PC. But.. how is being inclusive of tens of thousands of people being overly PC? We aren't talking about 1 in a million here. The transgender community is large enough to have several large organizations to help them. Here in America, the WPATH is the largest and works on helping trans people getting the medications they need, change their gender on documents, and so on. And the Netherlands actually is the world leader in the treatment of transgender individuals, which is another reason why I found it odd that you seemed not to know much about trans issues.
CAFABs are anybody that was assigned female at birth by the doctor or other official (i.e. "It's a girl!")
Alternatively, CAMABs = "It's a boy!"
Impossible. You have a vagina, you're a girl. You have a penis, you are a boy. It's as simple as that.
Okay, I am going to assume you are cis (meaning you identify as the same gender as the sex you were born in), and I'm sorry, but you just don't have the right to misgender people like that. I bring my argument to Ms. Kim Petras. Look her up if you care. Would you honestly tell someone like this that she is a boy? Just because she was born with a penis? She got the full Sexual Reassignment Surgery at 16, so was she a boy up until that fateful moment, despite years of prior hormone therapy and a life of living as a girl? Not to mention she is a german pop star, and is considered a girl, no different from any other girls, by her thousands of fans. Because that is how she presents. Beating a dead horse, but this is why gender is a social construct. If you present as a girl, you are considered a girl by society. Not because of what is between your legs (or in this case, what once was). And no, they aren't "tricking" anybody. Because they really do feel they are a certain gender, just as much as you feel you are male. You just happened to be lucky enough not to have to deal with the difficulties of transition because you feel you are the gender that matches your birth sex.
You are confusing sex with gender, and while doing this, you are totally stripping people of their identity because of some idea that gender is linked to physical attributes. I will say again, if one says they are a certain gender, they are, and thats that. A cisgender (again, assuming) man does not have the authority do deny anyone this identity, because you aren't trans. How in the world can you expect to understand that these people legitimately feel the SAME, no different, than a cis female. Because you just don't have the experience, you have to take the word of these people.
And yeah, that pregnant man we were talking about before did have a kind of phallus. Taking testosterone does that to a person. Exactly when is it that you consider it a penis? Thereby making him a man? I guess? I just don't understand your reasoning, or how you came up with it. Especially that second part.. where did you get this information? Because it totally contradicts everything I've learned about this in the past 15 years. Again, this is an issue thats really close to home for me.
Additionally, I agree 100% with everything Soitirs has said, though it may not be as uncommon as he thinks. As he said though, just because something is relatively uncommon does not mean you can forget about it.
I think further discussion on this would best take place in the "Gay" thread, because I wouldn't want to derail this thread any more than it already is, and I'm assuming gay includes the whole lgbT spectrum. I would love to further understand your views on this, because I do respect your point on most of your arguments.