Enigmawing, what a wonderfully well done response. I realize that all this time you've been one of the smartest in your responses here.
Goliath wrote:Then what use is there in praying? I mean, God had a 'divine plan' already, didn't he? So everything is set in stone already. So why the f--- bother praying if God does what he wants anyway?
You seem to view God's plan as being something seperate from prayers and that prayers are trying to change it. If God planned it all out...he planned it
all out, and that would include planning for people to pray for him for something to happen and for him to allow it to happen. Aside from that, praying to help someone even when you feel it's impossible to change is a sign of faith as well as a sign of love for who you are praying for if it's a person.
Super Aurora wrote:You know it's funny how you said you now say you don't believe in genetic(even though there is nothing to believe in to begin with as it's a fact of life) and yet you agree that animals, creature with lower intelligence and incapable of higher reason, and yet you also agree animal can be gay too. Well how think that is? There is the (fucose mutarotase) FucM gene – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed. this has both genetic and psychological aspect to the equation. Humans are same.
Yes animals have genes and actually the Catholic church even believes they have souls, just animal souls which are different and not as high as human souls. But as humans do and think more and have more going on, their choice, to turn that gay gene on, would have more to it, though like I said it's like a choice but not a choice. Complicated? You bet. I'd be fine believing it's not a soul's choice. I'm sure that's easier to understand. But I do believe the soul still turns on that gene or somehow makes the genes what it wants/is.
Super Aurora wrote:Oh and Christians borrowed many stuff from the Canaanites religion including the concept of Father(Yahweh) and son(El) god. Hell, the Jewish God and Christian God are completely different Gods all together.
I think what it really is is that the Canaanites became the Jewish people who eventually used the name Yahweh to refer specifically to the God who revealed himself to them as the one and only God. Never heard Jesus called El before, so, it's a no on that one. And lots of other religions have gods who have kids, as I said there's a lot of gods having children in other religions, but it's not the story of God having the human Mary immaculately have Jesus who is both human and God's son and God himself. For some reason you,
Goliath, and many other people in this world think if something's similar to something else it must be "the same idea" and "stolen"?
Dr Frankenollie wrote:Disney Duster wrote:Dr. Frankenollie, me and enigmawing have already explained very well why there might still be evil in the world.
I KNOW there's evil in the world, loony.
You misread what I was saying. I was saying what
might be the reason there is still evil in this world, jerk. >: (
Disney Duster wrote:The saddest thing is that it could be a wonderful world, if people were fairer, less lazy, more charitable and if all forms of religion and fascism never existed.
But many religions, especially the Christian ones, actually try to help and solve those problems you just posted pictures of. Also, if there were no religion, that would be very oppresive. Freedom of religion is freedom of being aloud to not just believe but share your believes with others and have a community in it.
Dr Frankenollie wrote:First of all, I'm not a negative, pessimistic grump like you think I am. But you make me angry and frustrated. Secondly, why does it disturb you that I want to go to some kind of paradise? Of course I want Heaven right now! Who wouldn't? And if God is so loving, then why didn't he allow his creations to reside in paradise?
I thought you were saying you hate your life so much you want to be in Heaven now. If you do not hate your life so much wouldn't you rather continue this journey in the world learning things and proving yourself against challenges before you enter a world where everything's perfect and happy?
For crying out loud some of the things you love are based on challenges and conflicts, like the movies you to talk about at length. But for very reasons like that, that we must go through challenges and prove ourselves worthy of heaven is why we can't have heaven now. Your parents love you but they only give you certain extra things when you earn them yet you think God is unloving for doing that as well.
Dr Frankenollie wrote:There's a story of group of Jews, who were being led to their deaths in a concentration camp in Nazi Germany. They prayed to not just their God, but begged for the mercy of any God, asking for salvation. And they were killed in horrible, painful ways.
And maybe some or all of them went to a place of eternal bliss. But I must point out, praying to other gods is actually a sin and not the kind of thing that would make God want to spare them of their deaths, not that I'm saying that's exactly what happened but it is a thought.
Dr Frankenollie wrote:Movies are a form of escapism, Duster. They're. Not. Real. Just because they show good triumphing over evil doesn't mean that it happens in life. And most of the world is not 'good', whatever you mean by 'good.' There is misery, pain, starvation, disease, ignorance, greed, cruelty and evil anywhere and everywhere.
The reason there are less non-murderers than murderers is not because the world is a happy place with good people. It's because we're scared of being caught and being imprisoned; because we are brainwashed into thinking like our elders think instead of making up our own ethics; and because religious people like you are worried about going to Hell. Do you think the reason many Christians don't murder each other is because they're good people?
No. They're scared of being sent to prison and scared of going to Hell.
No I meant that if there was really more bad than good, than the majority of people wouldn't make movies that showed good being most important and winning just to escape, because if most people were really bad than they would like to make movies that showed bad winning or that bad was good.
But I must say wow if you really think generally that Christians aren't good people and that they want to murder each other, you have an extremely negative and rather wicked view. It makes you sound more like a monster than the way you thought of God. I do not think you are one but I'm telling you what you sound like. I hope that something happens to make you happier and not think so badly. I have no idea what to do. I mean, how is your life dude?
Dr Frankenollie wrote:Disney Duster wrote:And none of the worst things in life, even things that might make us not want to live, can negate the greatness of Heaven. If all is right in the end, none of the bad crap really matters in the end either. It's just up to whether you are willing to believe in that great end or not.
So...are you suggesting that unless we believe we're all going to live happily ever after with our good, murderous friend God, we're not going to? And even if there is a Heaven, God should not put so many innocents through so much pain. I'm not being 'emo' or self-pitying, I'm thinking of the diseased, the starving and the poor.
No I think if you don't believe you will get some retribution, but perhaps even non-believers will get into Heaven. All I know is that you
should believe. There's no reason it would be bad for you not to believe, it could only help. The fact you have such a vendetta against it shows it's not that you really don't believe. You are purposely choosing not to and don't want to listen to anyone who can explain why your reasons for not believing don't fly since there is no reason. You can some up with excuses but there's really no specific reason. Believing isn't supposed to be based on evidence yet you say that's what you need. That leads into a nonsensical circle because you are supposed to believe without evidence, other than existence itself and the Bible.
And if you are really thinking of all the pain in the world why are you spending so much time just thinking about it instead of spending more of that time trying to help people like that, because a lot of those problems are caused at least in part by people, with their own wills, which God doesn't control, and it is people's wills that can also try to solve those problems and maybe you should join them because maybe that's what God wants you to do and a lot of Christians are doing it.
Dr Frankenollie wrote:Then if it's all accurately God's word (even though a lot of more intelligent Christians accept that the Bible was written by man), then how in the world can you be both a Christian and homosexual?!
Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."
I have heard it before as "shall not lie with a woman like you do with a man" which I have wondered for a while if that means "don't just do guys for the heck of it like you also do women" or "don't do men like you do women" which is about emasculation. People have also added to and changed or translated the Bible differently over the years so things like that may not be certainly God's word. But how I currently view it as that either the men of the Bible meant that you shouldn't rape a man to have pleasure because most men of that time were really only interested in woman but sometimes raped men for pleasure, or that the men put it in their when God didn't want them to and people need to figure out that's their word and not God's just like I may be doing now.
And I think
enigmawing's response covers anything else I want to.