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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:30 am 
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Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

Which animated Disney movies have plotlines that you'd love to change at some point or another, due to their amoral messages, overall boringness, etc.?

I'd love to change the plotlines of the following animated Disney movies:

* "Cinderella": I know that Walt actually stayed fairly close (well, sort of) to the original tale of "Cinderella", but, in my opinion, the movie makes the unspoken claim that child abuse can be avenged with passive aggression, instead of with sheer honesty. I'd like to have seen Cindy go to that ball in her rags, and demand that The King remove her from her home, so that she didn't have to deal with her stepfamily's cruelty anymore.

I mean, really. Does anybody REALLY think that Cinderella will be 100% happy all of the time once she's married? I, for one, wonder if she'll ever awaken in the middle of the night with terrible mental images of her stepmother racing through her head, even though Charming's arms are around her.

Even The Fairy Godmother's entire big scene is about a passive-aggressive, sort of pastelled, sugared version of "pulling a Carrie". This scatter-brained woman appears in order to rescue Cinderella, and does she counsel this poor kid, even for a moment? No! She doesn't even ask Cinderella if she's alright. She magically dries all of those tears, and creates a dream come true, with Dominatrix-strict rules attached, no less!

She is all for the concept of revenge (in ref. to Lucifer, she says, "Serves him RIGHT, I'd say!", even though she is a Fairy GODMOTHER, who supposedly stands for goodness.) She proceeds to create a magical scene, and I know that saving Cindy's dress for last is a cool EFFECT, but that torn dress represents all of the abuse that Cinderella has endured; it represents her pain, but The Fairy Godmother chooses to let Cinderella stand around in that dress while she transforms the mice, etc., rather than giving Cinderella a break from that extremely visible heartbreak right away.

I now, I know. If Cinderella had tried to turn The King into a Child Protective Services guy, the movie wouldn't have been "magical". I still have to wonder how many maltreated kids watched that movie, year after year, pitifully wondering why THEY weren't saved from THEIR families that easily. Believe me; that dress-destroying scene can happen in real life, and when it does, there's not likely to be a Fairy Godmother around to create a magical, silvery ballgown from thin air. I guess that "Cinderella" was Walt's own brand of therapy for his own bad childhood.

* "Aladdin": I know that I'm famous for my dislike of Princess Jasmine, but here's the REALLY weird aspect of the entire movie of "Aladdin": THE MOVIE PROMOTES THE PRACTICE OF LYING!!!

That's right! We've got liars all OVER the place, and only ONE of them gets punished! Jasmine lies, pretending to like men whom she despises, and yet, the grand irony is that, for all of her supposed "feminist boldness", she freely excuses the biggest liar of all, choosing him as a husband, and he doesn't even have to prove that he's NOT just a compulsive liar before she chooses him!

I'm talkin' about Aladdin himself. Even Genie has a better moral compass in his noggin than Aladdin has, although, by granting Aladdin's wishes, Genie sort of allows him to lie, and condones the practice, up to a point. Anyway, Aladdin lies, and lies, and lies some more. He's about as big of a liar as Jafar is, because he hypnotizes everybody with his flashy clothing in the same way that Jafar waves that staff in front of the Sultan.

The funny thing about "Aladdin" is that even though BOTH Aladdin and Jafar are total liars, Jafar is punished, while Aladdin is not punished; Aladdin is rewarded for his good deeds, but he never has to prove that he's not normally a compulsive liar. Indeed, Jafar actually serves the purpose of unmasking Aladdin's true identity, so that Princess Jasmine can finally know who she's dealing with.

I wish that Aladdin had to go on a mission, or something (Let's say that Princess Jasmine pretended that there was a gem hidden out in the dunes, and Aladdin had to make the moral decision to be honest with her when he couldn't find it), in order to test his ability to be honest, BEFORE Jasmine chose him as a husband. I realize that such a scene would probably ruin the movie, but still, it might allow Aladdin to redeem himself more successfully. After all, do we know that he's NOT a compulsive liar? Do we know that his lying, that strategy that kept him alive for so long on the streets of Agrabah, will not remain as a sort of obsession while he's serving as a royal?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
:idea:

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Last edited by Jackoleen on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:09 am 
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Pinocchio: I used to read different storybook versions of this movie as a kid, each of which interpreted the same story slightly differently. Then there was the film's 1992 re-release, which made me think at the time that they remade the entire film.
Not so sure I would change anything now, though the books gave a lot of interesting ideas.

Cinderella: I'd make the story more focused on the leading heroine and less on the side characters. Remind everyone who is the real star of this film.

Peter Pan: I would've developed the relation between Peter and Wendy more. I probably would pushed for a darker version of the story like the earlier storyboards suggested. Would've been great to see what this film could've been had it not been for WWII.

Sleeping Beauty: Flesh out Aurora and Phillip some more, so they're not just background players.

The Sword and the Stone: Make this a featurette, since there wasn't enough material to make a sufficient feature.

The Jungle Book: There were a few split ends, like with the elephants that could've been resolved better. Some parts of the movie felt unfinished, maybe not because of Walt's death, but because they used the characters loosely after rejecting Bill Peet's screenplay.

The Fox and the Hound: I would've let Chief be killed off. You can't pretend like people don't die, even if it's in a cartoon. Bambi's mom was killed off for a good reason.

The Black Cauldron: I would've let Ron Clements and John Musker direct this, if one account I've read is accurate. I also would've kept Eilonwy's original design, since her final design is extremely bland. And most importantly, I would've made this film more interesting. The film tried to be bold, but only half-assed their way thru.

Hercules: Not sure exactly how I'd change this, but it felt like there were too many secondaries to deal with, so the story wasn't focused enough. I also would've tried to make this feel less like Aladdin. While the contemporary twists worked well for that film, it felt rehashed in this one.

Fantasia 2000: Make the film a little longer. Some of the segments felt like they were breezing thru and not giving people enough time to really savor the music.

Bolt: Let Chris Sanders make his film. The resulting film was fine, but not that memorable.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:37 am 
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Well, I personally disagree with your views on Cinderella and Aladdin. I think you are viewing these films with a very contemporary view point, specially cinderella.

In Cinderella, the idea is that the good will be rewarded, and the wicked will be punished. Throughout time, love, wealth and power were the goals in life. Specially if it means ascending the social ladder. And Cinderella got all of those things.
THe idea that counseling is the solution to abuse it very contemporary (and Im not sure it is always a good solution). I'm sure that once she was a princess, if indeed Cindy had nightmares, there was an on-staff apothecary in the palace.

As for Aladdin... yes, both Aladdin and Jafar lie. But yeah, people lie. But what you must consider is their motivations. Jafar lies because of his greed and hunger for power (which he seemed to have plenty of already). Aladdin lies cause he feels like he is unworthy of the princess. He was dealt a bad hand in life: poverty. And we all know that socio-economic lines should stop people from loving one another.
Aladdin lies...but he does so out of his discomfort with who he has been deemed (a street rat, who shall die a street rat), and to be able to overcome the established social order that will prevent him from loving the woman he wants.
As for Jasmine pretending to love Jafar....c'mon! Lighten up! It was a decoy!

And as you repeat several times in your posting, "it would have ruined the movie". THese movies are meant to be entertaining above all...and I think they have a very strong moral compass.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:37 pm 
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I just wish Cinderella showed a scene of what happened to Lady Tremaine and her girls, even just a shot of them looking pissed as Cinderella's wedding coach passed by the family chateau, although by rights they should have been kicked out on their well padded asses!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:01 pm 
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I know I would like to alter the story to The Little Mermaid somewhat to show that the movie is more about Ariel's independence than her romance. Maybe also have Ariel and Triton talk at the end (although I think the ending's probably brilliant because they don't have to go through the whole "I'm sorry"'s, etc.).

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:13 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
I know I would like to alter the story to The Little Mermaid somewhat to show that the movie is more about Ariel's independence than her romance. Maybe also have Ariel and Triton talk at the end (although I think the ending's probably brilliant because they don't have to go through the whole "I'm sorry"'s, etc.).


I agree with this mostly because she never does seem to actually mature through the whole movie, she just happens to get her way in the end because of all the people who help her. If only Ariel would have been able to destroy Ursula instead of Eric, or just a single moment where she would have had to "man up" in a way. haha

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:01 am 
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Robin Hood-I would've liked this to have perhaps used humans instead of animals, and I would have liked it if it had less obvious padding (like the horrendous dance scene) and used the time instead to explore the previous relationship between Robin and Marian more. The Fox versions of Robin and Marian are some of the dullest, blandest characters Disney has ever offered; they should've had a lot more depth. But then again, this feature was doomed from the start.

Peter Pan-As Semaj suggested, I would've liked a darker version of this, and a more likable version of Peter Pan would've been wonderful.

Other than these two, I don't really mind the plotlines of any of the Disney films, even if they are somewhat flawed.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:13 am 
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Pocahontas - I would off like John to stay in America and become on of the natives
(Some thing like this should of happened, then we wouldn't have the shambles of Pocahontas 2!)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:58 pm 
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DisneyDude2010 wrote:
Pocahontas - I would off like John to stay in America and become on of the natives
(Some thing like this should of happened, then we wouldn't have the shambles of Pocahontas 2!)


I like that he didn't. It was a different and probably more mature way of ending the movie, and while I realize that "historical accuracy" and "Pocahontas" shouldn't be in the same sentence, I'd have a harder time justifying John Smith staying in Virginia.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:05 pm 
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I wouldn't George Lucas any of them.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:20 pm 
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- Dumbo: As brilliant as I think Dumbo is, I think it races to the end a bit too quickly... I mean...how much time happens between his learning to fly and the end credits?

- Sleeping Beauty: I agree that she and Prince Phillip should be further developed...

- Mulan: Axe the idiotic dragon. And GOD, change the lame pop tune at the end...the God are dancing to the latest boy band??? THat ending felt dated within 3 years of it coming out.

- Treasure Planet and Atlantis: both should be completely re-worked

- Emperor's New Groove. Great film, but I wish the llama didn't break the fourth wall and talk to the audience.

- Princess and the Frog: the first 30 minutes seem to have too much story compressed into them...and then the section in the bayou seems aimless...

- Tangled: Flynn addressing the viewer kinda bothered me...he is a bit too comical...hard to take him seriously. Which is why I didnt feel anything when he almost does at the end.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Brother Bear needed a more intense climax. Perhaps they should've thrown a saber tooth tiger into the final showdown there. That would've been cool. Also how come we don't see Denahi as a wolf but we see the other brothers in their animal forms? The moose don't seem to do much storywise. I hate when comic relief comes along and they don't serve any kind of purpose or assistance to the story.

Mulan needed a few more battles. It's hard to believe Mulan only needed to fight in just one.

The Princess and the Frog - my only beef was the character of Louis. Again, I would've like to see him having serve some sort of actual purpose to the story instead of just comical relief.

Robin Hood - At the very least, they should've included the alternate ending. If you didn't have good eyes and saw Maid Marian and Lady Cluck in the getaway cart in that brief second of clip, you were scratching your heads wondering where the hell they were during the entire massive climax of the film (which took place right on their doorstep).

Fantasia 2000 - lose the celebrity segways and stick with one host for the whole film like in the original

As I mentioned in a thread I made before I think The Aristocats and Oliver & Company need to be completely reanimated. The xerox technique was not kind to these two films. The Aristocats even has incomplete cleanup animation throughout and it shows. I think that film would've benefited more from a unique French animation look maybe something similar to Sylvain Chomet's work. The stories themselves are fine. Just redo the animation.

Alice in Wonderland - needed a ton more substance than Alice winding up in one situation after another where she gets shitted on alot

Meet the Robinsons - The conflict in the movie is pretty good but man does this film put you through inane torture and boredom to get there. Fix the first half of the movie and you should see a vast improvement.

I think Emperor's New Groove is the only film where the 4th wall actually works. In other films such as Tangled and Chicken Little, it feels very artificial. Speaking of which...

Chicken Little - wipe from existence


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:37 am 
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Haha wipe from existence.

In Cinderella, the point is that Cinderella goes through much abuse because in her time and society and situation, she must get it. She has happy times each day and is not too terribly abused until really the dress-ripping scene, and the Fairy Godmother does not realize she needs to do the dress till later, it's not on purpose. Cinderella had someone who obviously cared for her, that was enough to make her feel better before she got her dress fixed. That is the point of the film. Cinderella was unloved but the film says don't give up hope you can get love. The Fairy Godmother obviously knew her worries and there was an unspokeness that Cinderella was abused, didn't deserve, and instead deserved love and, well, a gorgeous dress! Cinderella would probably tell the Prince about her terrible life later and he would comfort her. And if people go through life never getting love...I think that's either impossible and that then we should teach everyone to love other people, but if it still doesn't happen, well, depending on what you believe you will finally get love in the after life, or peace, you know?

carolinakid, I think the stepmother's shocked face is enough of her punishment for being so terrible. I think we should have seen the stepsister's faces, too, but I think the film ends the way it does so as not to try and get revenge on or punish the bad guys, just leave them. Leave the bad, and that's good enough. Cinderella should not do any bad but just focus on her good life. But your idea of seeing them pissed at the chateau or the wedding...is actually a good one, I think! Did you get my E-mail or pm's, by the way?

Aladdin kind of proved himself honest by saving Jasmine and freeing the Genie. That's not the same kind of honesty you mean but it proved he was good. I admit he should vow and show that he would change to always be honest, but if he only told little lies, in a way that's kinda a cute flaw, like a bad boy that's not that bad, I dunno, it depends how bad his lies would ever get.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:38 am 
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Dear Disney Enthusiasts,

XXX!

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Last edited by Jackoleen on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:23 am 
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Jackoleen wrote:
Dear Dr Frenkenollie,

I personally sort of like the fact that Peter Pan is a Disney playa' and a bad boy! I mean, Disney's "Peter Pan" doesn't really detail Peter's childhood, but, in the original story (I haven't read the book, but I've read ABOUT it, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Peter Pan was just left alone as a baby, and he resents adults, in part, because they never cared for him.

So, he's a neglected boy, and as such, he might not have a clue as to how to be a real friend, or how to treat girls, etc. I sort of find his sexist, playa streak to be annoyingly charming.

Thank you in advance for your reply.
:idea:


Aladdin is a good example of a very charming animated 'bad boy.' Peter Pan is not charming and he's not a character the audience would root for; Hook is much more lovable. Both Aladdin and Peter Pan are reckless, but unlike Aladdin, Peter is shown to be selfish and (obviously) rather childish. His naivete when Wendy wishes to kiss him is very slightly endearing, but not enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:59 pm 
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But Peter Pan is supposed to be selfish and childish. Then he changes to be less selfish after Tinker Bell rescues him and he rescues the children and then takes them home. Maybe he could have somehow been made more likeable but he still has to be the ways I described, doesn't he?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Okay, I got some in order for me to join the Changing-Disney-Movie bandwagon.

Chicken Little - redo the story of the War of the Worlds thing, put darker elements into it rather than pop-culture references and poop jokes and whatnot as if this was a DreamWorks movie, and make the voices a bit less annoying. Thank you.

Tangled - nothing wrong with the movie, except the one major problem, CHANGE THE FUCKING TITLE BACK TO RAPUNZEL!

Fantasia 2000 - make more of the segments such as Swan Lake, Ride of the Valkyries, and In the Hall of the Mountain King.

Sleeping Beauty - the only downside of the film, and I agree with Marce82, is Prince Phillip. I mean, nothing wrong with that character, except he needs to have more emotions.

Hercules - needs more story of Hades.

Bolt - replace the godawful Miley Cyrus actress for Chloe Mortez or Dakota Fanning or somebody.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:18 pm 
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Fantasia 2000 - The already stated "Moar segments". The IMAX limits really held it back.

Hunchback of Notre Dame - Trim down the Gargoyles, make it more apparent they're in Quasi's head. And no Gargoyle song. That or replace them with the other Disney Gargoyles

Black Cauldron - Fix the tone issues and keep it fun and adventurous with dark elements rather then the schizophrenia of the pixie-fied Fair Folk in one sequence and the horrifying undead armies in another. Bring back Arawn and Gwydion into the story as well.

Emperor's New Groove - Find a way to re-incorporate Yzma's sun plans from Kingdom of the Sun. Have Kronk keep questioning the idea and pointing out the ramifications of removing the sun, ala Smithers in Who Shot Mr. Burns but possibly even funnier and in Warburton's voice.

Home on the Range - Keep the Western Ghost Story plot.

Atlantis - Should have kept the monster fighting along the way and give more opportunities for characters to bounce off each other. Extend the stay in Atlantis a pinch as well.

Treasure Planet - Completely overhaul BEN. Only comic relief character more annoying then the Gargoyles. Yeah, he's supposed to be a nutty castaway, but Martin Short is far too obnoxious. Doesn't even have to be a robot, could be a Yoda pastiche.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Tangled- A final ultimo.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:16 pm 
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First of all, I will give you some praise for an excellent idea for a thread :) Here comes my answers, although they perhaps will be long.

TANGLED; Personally, I felt the tone of the movie was inconsistent. The happy, perky moments didn't flowed well with the darker, more somber moments as a whole. I would also have made the ending less rushed and contrived. And last, but not least; I would have redo the scene where Rapunzel discovers the truth about herself. The final scene was contrived and overdone.

PRINCESS AND THE FROG; Perhaps thrown some more action sequences into the film.

CHICKEN LITTLE; Throw away the awful "All I Know"-song, make the father/son plotline less sappy and make the action sequences less frenetic (as with John Debney's frenetic score at the action moments).

BROTHER BEAR: Now this is a story who has a lot of flaws, despite its potential. This story is a tad more darker and more dramatic than the usual Disney plot. But it would have been more resonant if the events were worked out better.
Lets take Kenai; He's the first protagonist (on a Disney flick) who actually kills a animal. But for no damn reason! He actually provokes the poor innocent animal and causes himself in trouble. And then he blames the bear for the death of Sitka? If the bear had actually KILLED Sitka, then his misson would have been more resonant. But Kenai kills a poor, innocent bear that HE actually provoked!
Well, although Kenai actually goes through an character arc, I still don't understand why he STILL wants to be changed back to an human, after that he revealed that he killed Koda's mom.

I also thought the fact Koda's forgave Kenai so quickly was very unrealistic. Sure, its only a cartoon, but it was still unrealistic. Honestly, would someone still have some affection for a jerk who recently killed your parent? And realizing its affection so quickly?

LILO & STITCH; I wouldn't have changed the plot, but I still would have made the script more structured and less chaotic than it was. I would have thrown out Jumba and Pleakley and made the focus more on Lilo and less on Stitch.

POCAHONTAS; While I love this film despite its many flaws, I still think it could have been more structured. I don't mind its slow pace, but I think there were some obvious problems that could have been reworked (Pocahontas and John Smith understanding each other by listening to their hearts, the subplot with the animals, the rushed and somewhat contrived ending).

THE LION KING; While I do think this movie has a strong script, I just don't see what the Elephant Graveyeard subplot have to do with the whole of the movie. It actually adds nothing important, besides to get know the hyenas and making Simba just ignorant (although he does make up for himself).

BEAUTY AND THE BEAST; While I did like the enchanted objects, I do think they take away much time that was needed for Belle and the Beast. Sure, they learn to known and love each other during the movie, but I still think the main focus should be on them. And besides, I would made the antagonist a stronger and more powerful villain than Gaston.

THE LITTLE MERMAID; As already mentioned, it should have been given time for Ariel to apologize to what she did to her father. Also, I would have given her a more personal, more complEx reason to yearn for the human world.

THE JUNGLE BOOK: Make the script more coherent and less episodic and give some more depth to the characters. The reason for sending Mowgli to the main village was quite stupid (the volwes could actually have defeated Shere Khan). And besides; Wouldn't the Wolf clan at least try to say goodbye to Mowgli before he went away?


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