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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:48 pm 
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I would like to ask how many of you so-called critics about color in the Disney DVD's and Blu-rays, did you ever see the original movie in a movie theater. If so, then you will have some real comparisons.

"Beauty and the Beast" for instance, when shown in the movie theater the first time around, not the re-release or re-re-release, the colors were just like they are on the Blu-ray version that was just released.

"Fantasia" was a beautiful movie to see in the theater with the original six-track magnetic stereo track (a first of its kind) and all the colors that most of you are complaining about were there in the original movie print, not in the original DVD release, and the new 4-Disc set of Blu-ray/DVD has finally restored the colors to their original. Of course, there is still the stupid censorship thing, but I won't get into that. It is the choice Disney made and we have to live with it.

:D

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:11 pm 
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dvdjunkie wrote:
"Beauty and the Beast" for instance, when shown in the movie theater the first time around, not the re-release or re-re-release, the colors were just like they are on the Blu-ray version that was just released.
:D


Certainly NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
We don't want to go back to this as there is another thread.
And Even the Disney people admitted that they changed the colors!
So that sentence above, is completely wrong..

Now, what's good or bad, this is another story..


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Could someone explain to me how and where the Clair de lune segment is located on this set? Getting that particular segment is a great part of the motivation for me to double dip on these features.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:53 pm 
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MichaeLeah wrote:
Could someone explain to me how and where the Clair de lune segment is located on this set? Getting that particular segment is a great part of the motivation for me to double dip on these features.


I don't think that's on there...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:26 pm 
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It'll likely be in Virtual Vault since everything from the Anthology Set wound up there instead of actually on disc.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:30 pm 
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I got this Blu-Ray at Wal-Mart this past Wednesday and it looks great. I always love the bonus features on the Blu-Ray edition. BTW, this is a combo pack which it came with the DVD. I love the sound in this movie, it is excellent and it is nice and crisp. The movie was originally presented in "Fantasound", but back then, there is stereo, in the 70's, it was quadraphonic and now surround sound. If I have a "Fantasia" movie, I can hook up to an old Kenwood Stereo Amplifier from the 70's to make it look good in stereo. There is also a "Stereo Mode" where you can choose "4-Channel" for quad. "4-Channel" is recommended for use with an SQ decoder to get the best quad possible when you watch "Fantasia". There is an item which is on this link:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/ ... oder_1000/

I also have the soundtrack on vinyl, CD and cassette, but the vinyl of the soundtrack was first released in 1957 and it was being first Disney LP released in stereo. And speaking of "Fantasia", I found some videos on stereo demonstration taken right off the previous albums which are not Disney. This was released at the time, stereo albums started to appear around 1958 when the soundtrack to "Fantasia" was released. Here is an example.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V3Wt_Avpx3E?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V3Wt_Avpx3E?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

And here is short film about stereophonic sound in "Living Stereo" produced by RCA back in 1958 from Jam Handy Films. This is not Disney if you are a fan of "Fantasia".

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AIXubjbO6Rk?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AIXubjbO6Rk?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:33 pm 
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I'm gon'na purchase this set tommorow *eek* freakin excited, but I'm only get'tin the 2 disc dvd. Course I got a hunch my aunt/uncle/grandparents might get me the Blu Ray for X-Mas...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Mason_Ireton wrote:
I'm gon'na purchase this set tommorow *eek* freakin excited, but I'm only get'tin the 2 disc dvd. Course I got a hunch my aunt/uncle/grandparents might get me the Blu Ray for X-Mas...


I mean, do what you want, but if you think they might buy you the Blu-ray for Christmas, why bother with the DVD set at all? Save your money. You'll have to wait a month, but you won't end up buying something then essentially getting it again.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:07 am 
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The Blu-ray is selling like crazy from what I've seen. I went back today to get a copy for someone for Christmas. Target was the only store that had them at all. They also didn't have slip covers. I know they did earlier in the week when I bought mine, so I guess the new stock is already shipping with out them?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:37 am 
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I don't mind cause I can give my nephews/nieces or a friend thr 2 disc dvd after x-mas

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:23 am 
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DarthPrime wrote:
The Blu-ray is selling like crazy from what I've seen. I went back today to get a copy for someone for Christmas. Target was the only store that had them at all. They also didn't have slip covers. I know they did earlier in the week when I bought mine, so I guess the new stock is already shipping with out them?


Oh, wow. Already? Thank god I got mine the first day it came out..and in perfect condition too!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:04 am 
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Victurtle wrote:
I don't want to go all Marky on everyone, but doesn't the DVD colors look better? The gleam/brightness in the dinosaurs eyes are lost, making it less powerful an image. And the blue things in the bottom screen appear more bland in HD.

Since that question is looking for an opinion, then no, the DVD doesn't look better then the Blu-Ray. The new colors are far more natural.

Mr. Yagoobian wrote:
it's a reason to visit the Museum all on its own, which would certainly be devalued if there were hundreds of thousands of copies of it available for home use.

Yeah, that would be my reason to visit it. Still, I have a feeling they showed us the most interesting stuff anyways. I was disappointed only because the early information was incorrect. What we got was fine though.

miniroll32 wrote:
gardener14 wrote:
I just learned of Deems Taylor being overdubbed with another voice. I watched the comparrison posted above, and I definitely remember, and now miss, Deems Taylor's distinctive voice. Does anyone know, or could someone explain, why he was replaced?


The original nitrate film that stored these audio sections have deteriorated beyond repair.

To further clarify, it's only the NEW sections added to the DVD release that were deteriorated. The majority of the audio during the interstitials is just fine. His voice can still be heard at the beginning of Fantasia 2000.

geniuswalt wrote:
I ask to those of you lucky enough to have a home video copy with the original Deems Taylor voice. What did they do back then for those portions of dialogue no longer available? Did they dub only those?

Nothing, it was a different cut that didn't have the extended dialog (so it was 100% Deems Taylor's voice). I've posted this before but see for yourself what I'm talking about:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jSTWy25hRiI?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jSTWy25hRiI?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iXcgpLeqn7Q?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iXcgpLeqn7Q?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

You can see, the general release version that was included on the VHS had shorted intersitials (my preferred ones) that left some mystery as to what you were going to watch. Unfortunately, it also cut out the intermission and placed the title card from the intermission at the beginning of the movie and the footage of the orchestra leaving at the end, while using the footage of the orchestra tuning up in place of Deems Taylor. You have to take the good with the bad I guess. Anyways, hope that helps clear up whatever confusion there was.

dvdjunkie wrote:
I would like to ask how many of you so-called critics about color in the Disney DVD's and Blu-rays, did you ever see the original movie in a movie theater. If so, then you will have some real comparisons.

lol There has maybe been one person complaining about the colors on this release and even then it's not that serious a complaint.

dvdjunkie wrote:
"Beauty and the Beast" for instance, when shown in the movie theater the first time around, not the re-release or re-re-release, the colors were just like they are on the Blu-ray version that was just released.

I actually saw that one in theaters and no, the Blu-Ray does not represent what was shown in theaters. According to Don Hahn, what was shown in theaters was not the original intent and so they changed them. So you're statement is wrong and we already killed one thread with this color "debate".

dvdjunkie wrote:
"Fantasia" was a beautiful movie to see in the theater with the original six-track magnetic stereo track (a first of its kind) and all the colors that most of you are complaining about were there in the original movie print, not in the original DVD release, and the new 4-Disc set of Blu-ray/DVD has finally restored the colors to their original. Of course, there is still the stupid censorship thing, but I won't get into that. It is the choice Disney made and we have to live with it.

I never saw the original release, so I can't say whether it was a beautiful movie when seen in theaters but I can say it is now on Blu-Ray. I also can't say whether these are the original colors seen in theaters but they are probably the closest representations of the intended colors made from research involving filmmakers notes and the original cells/artwork. The one thing that was probably better in theaters was the soundtrack.

MichaeLeah wrote:
Could someone explain to me how and where the Clair de lune segment is located on this set? Getting that particular segment is a great part of the motivation for me to double dip on these features.

Escapay's right, it's in the Virtual Vault. It's not restored, not HD, and not even fullscreen.

Anyways, since I really wanted to see the Fantasia Legacy extras before I returned the Blu-Ray, I'm happy (sarcasm) to report that after only 4 days and 15 hours of my life, I was able to get through all 5 hours of the virtual vault supplements (except the “Melody” and “Toot, Whistle, Plunk, Boom" shorts, since I've already seen them). I admit, I cheated and watched "Clair De Lune”, “The Ride of the Valkyries” story reel, “The Swan of Tuonela” story reel, “Invitation to the Dance” story reel, and “Adventures in a Perambulator on YouTube to save myself a few hours. It was painful but the supplements are REALLY good (I can see why the Fantasia Anthology set is held in such high regard). I probably could've skipped the "Special Effects in Fantasia" feature, since all that is covered in more detail in The Shultheis Notebook: A Disney Treasure. A lot of these supplements are really interesting and I would love to watch them again, unfortunately, right after the video finishes, it closes it and you would have to reload the whole thing all over again (actually, it froze on a couple of occasions after the videos would close and I would have to shut off my player and reset). You see, my problem isn't with the supplements but with how they're presented. A couple of the the videos (surprisingly both of the 40 some minute docs) started instantly with no wait and played fine all the way through while the majority of the videos (even the 20 second clips) would take up to 3 minutes to fully buffer before they would even start. It's not just the wait times that bothered me but the fact that I had to watch the features in a tiny little screen. I wanted to see the "Pines of Rome" storyboard to film comparison but splitting that little screen in half to do a comparison made the whole thing impossible to make out what was going on. The little screen was one of the other reasons (besides saving time) that I watched the deleted sequences on YouTube. They needed to be seen in fullscreen. I still would love for "Clair De Lune” to get the Lowry treatment and be presented in HD. Actually, I really would've loved to see the “Piano Concerto No. 2” rat sequence and "The Firebird Suite” original ending in HD (completed animation from a CAPS source on that tiny little screen just seems like a waste).

If they re-released this set with Deems Taylor's surviving elements intact and all the supplements on disc, I'll be there.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:13 am 
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BK wrote:
Victurtle wrote:
filmmusic wrote:
Here are some screenshot comparison (left Bluray, right 2000 DVD):
Image

Image
I don't want to go all Marky on everyone, but doesn't the DVD colors look better? The gleam/brightness in the dinosaurs eyes are lost, making it less powerful an image. And the blue things in the bottom screen appear more bland in HD.


IMO the dinosaur looks better and so does the hippo. The dinosaurs have definition now whilst on the right they looked like blobs.

I prefer the darker colours for the ballerina things though. It looks kind of washed out in the Blu as for the blue centaurs- I don't know it looks cheap anyway.

I haven't seen Fantasia or 2000 by the way so just comparing based on those screenshots.
I agree for the second part. As for the dinosaurs, I was just referring to the colors, not the image definition/quality.

I really liked how bright the dinosaurs eyes are, they are really powerful.

As for the colors looking more natural... well know one really knows what colour dinosaurs are supposed to be so that itself is also subjective :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:23 am 
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well, the sorcerer's apprentice maybe looks better in bluray ( i mean with the changed colors). and the pastoral symphony segment and maybe dance of hours..
in the screenshots above i prefer the blue sky though over the pink one in rite of spring!
has anyone uploaded the sugar plum fairy from bluray? this was the most radical change i have seen so far in screenshots..


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:06 pm 
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Victurtle wrote:
The gleam/brightness in the dinosaurs eyes are lost, making it less powerful an image. And the blue things in the bottom screen appear more bland in HD.

Let me remind you the importance of exact frame capture comparison:

Image

As you can see, the gleam you're worried about is still there, as it was never on the frame filmmusic was using. As for the centaurs, I don't understand how toning down the colors (remember, Walt didn't want to use overly bright colors) and removing the red hue makes it bland? To me that's more natural.

Victurtle wrote:
I really liked how bright the dinosaurs eyes are, they are really powerful.

I remember when the color bleeding from shoddy film transfers was a bad thing.

filmmusic wrote:
has anyone uploaded the sugar plum fairy from bluray? this was the most radical change i have seen so far in screenshots..

Here you go:

Image

As you can see, a picture taken off a TV via iPhone camera is a terrible source for comparison. When it got to the fairies ice skating I was in awe. It's there the colors look MUCH more inline with the original filmmaker's intent of having the colors represent the seasons (blue for winter or yellow/brownish for fall, etc.).

I'll repost these Sunflower comparisons just as an example for the colors:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Just look how the newly restored Blu-Ray has colors much closer to the unrestored image of the 80s television broadcast with Sunflower. The DVD just seems to be color boosted while this new one looks much more natural (more inline with Walt's muted color pallets). Since this Blu-Ray looks closer to an untouched print, no manipulation, then I'm willing to bet it's had less tinkering with the colors then the old DVD.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Amazing how they manage to remove Sunflower completely.

BTW, which picture of the Fairy sequence is the Blu-ray one; the right or left one?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Pretty impressive how they've seamlessly removed Sunflower. For the better of course.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:03 pm 
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jpanimation wrote:

filmmusic wrote:
has anyone uploaded the sugar plum fairy from bluray? this was the most radical change i have seen so far in screenshots..

Here you go:

Image

As you can see, a picture taken off a TV via iPhone camera is a terrible source for comparison. When it got to the fairies ice skating I was in awe. It's there the colors look MUCH more inline with the original filmmaker's intent of having the colors represent the seasons (blue for winter or yellow/brownish for fall, etc.).



oh.... :(
Still prefer the original one. All the blacks have gone!!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:12 pm 
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My mom picked up the Blu-ray/DVD set and I really can't wait to see the films in high definition--especially Fantasia. It looked so terrible on the 60th Anniversary DVD and after seeing the screen caps, I am super stoked to see the film. And I love Destino and can't wait to see it and the documentary about it. Yeah, the only thing that's really going for this set is the picture quality, but thank goodness I have the Legacy set because that was wonderfully brilliant. I probably won't even use the Virtual Vault (BD-Live takes forever to load and then forever to just watch anything on it) since I have all of the bonus features. It would be kind of cool to make my own awesome 7-disc set combining the two sets, but I doubt there is a Blu-ray/DVD case that holds 7 discs that isn't a digipack (which I'm not that fond of).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:30 pm 
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TheSequelOfDisney wrote:
It would be kind of cool to make my own awesome 7-disc set combining the two sets, but I doubt there is a Blu-ray/DVD case that holds 7 discs that isn't a digipack (which I'm not that fond of).

The first two seasons of "Star Trek" are in 7-disc Blu-Ray cases, so they do exist. ;)

And why stop at 7 discs? Throw in the soundtrack CDs for the films (2 for Fantasia, 1 for Fantasia 2000) and make it a grand 10-disc megaset! :lol:

albert

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