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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Jerry Beck has reported a VERY big piece of rumors regarding "Rapunzel".

Rumor has it that Lasseter didn't like the latest cut of the film and has fired Glen Keane as director. Supposedly they now assigned the directors of "Bolt" to handle the project.

If rumor is true all I have to say is...OUCH!

The movie has been in the works for nearly 7 years, and changed themes and styles more than people change their oil. Not even Sleeping Beauty took this much to complete. Not to mention that this is Glen's baby!

Those of you who hated how Lasseter handled things at Disney might have found the straw that broke the camel's back.

But again, this is all just a rumor posted by a student from CalArts.

Here's the link:
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/rumor ... l#comments

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:32 pm 
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UPDATE: Floyd Norman confirms in the comments that this rumor is indeed true.

I'm speechless!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Glen Keane was the film's rescue.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Lasseter didn't like the latest cut of the film.

And Jeffrey katzenberg didn't like The Little Mermaid and wanted to cut Part of your world.

I think some people shouldn't be allowed to work in animation.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Marky_198 wrote:
Lasseter didn't like the latest cut of the film.

And Jeffrey katzenberg didn't like The Little Mermaid and wanted to cut Part of your world.

Should some people be allowed to work in animation?



This proves that when you gets to the top head of animation department, you become very stubborn, corrupt, and pathetic.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:52 pm 
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I read that too, and I am shocked that Lasseter did something like that.
I mean, we haven't seen Bolt yet, but what started out as something quite different with a unique design ended up looking pretty bland and boring on its first teaser posters.

Glen Keane is one of the truly talented people in the animation world, not only is he one of the best animators of our time, he also knows how to handle a story and he has ideas. Rapunzel is his baby and he has worked so long and so hard, it'd be unfair to fire him from the director's chair, just because one cut of the movie wasn't to Lasseter's taste.
The first cut of Star Wars was horrible and look what it became after they recut it. And the people working on Rapunzel still have time to rethink, redesign and recut the movie.

Remember that Katzenberg wanted to cut "Part of your world"? (Thanks for bringing that up, Marky) Remember that the studio execs wanted to have "Moonriver" cut from Breakfast at Tiffany's?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Yes, I too am shocked that Lasseter allowed this. I don't think the guy's a saint (people seem to forget that he is first and foremost the guy in charge, so he isn't the warm, lovable guy that appears on the Pixar DVDs), but I honestly want to know what he saw in the movie that made him fire Keane.

I mean, he didn't like "Meet the Robinsons" either, but all he did was tell the director to make some changes, work on the story and focus less on the madcap humor.

And if the gossip is to be believed the real reason Chris Sanders left Disney was because he didn't agree with the changes Lasseter suggested.

One of the CB commenters said that maybe the film WAS lagging badly and it needed a director change. Glen Keane is an amazing artist and all, but I don't think that translates to directing very well.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Of all the stupid idiotic decisions...

First Chris Sanders, now Glen Keane. What about Keane's co-director Dean Wellins? Is he gone to?

Even if it is Keane's baby, if he was moved from directing to another position that he's more suitable/comfortable in (perhaps executive producer-slash-overall-supervising-animator or something), then it's understandable if it was done to help the story/characters. But if it turns out he's off the project completely (or simply reduced to a story consultant), or if it becomes a complete reworking like Kingdom of the Sun into The Emperor's New Groove or American Dog into Bolt, where the director's entire vision and the film's story and characters are changed drastically...then Lasseter is smoking something and I don't want any of it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:30 pm 
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pap64 wrote:
Yes, I too am shocked that Lasseter allowed this. I don't think the guy's a saint (people seem to forget that he is first and foremost the guy in charge, so he isn't the warm, lovable guy that appears on the Pixar DVDs), but I honestly want to know what he saw in the movie that made him fire Keane.

I mean, he didn't like "Meet the Robinsons" either, but all he did was tell the director to make some changes, work on the story and focus less on the madcap humor.

And if the gossip is to be believed the real reason Chris Sanders left Disney was because he didn't agree with the changes Lasseter suggested.

One of the CB commenters said that maybe the film WAS lagging badly and it needed a director change. Glen Keane is an amazing artist and all, but I don't think that translates to directing very well.


Okay don't spear me for this but...

Who is Glen Keane...What Animated Films has he worked on in the past....?

I wondered the same thing too (that this isn't the first time Lasster had problems with Directors on recent Disney Animated Films...(I.e. Him and Chris Sanders had a feud about Bolt)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:42 pm 
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disneyboy200022 wrote:
Who is Glen Keane...What Animated Films has he worked on in the past....?

He's the son of "The Family Circus" creator Bil Keane, and one of Disney's best animators. He worked on Pete's Dragon, Mickey's Christmas Carol, and 12 DACs (every DAC from The Rescuers to Aladdin, Pocahontas, Tarzan, and Treasure Planet). Rapunzel is/was his first job as film director (he had done directing animator and supervising animator, but never director). Non-Disney stuff include "Star Trek: The Animated Series", a few "Family Circus" specials, and The Chipmunk Adventure.

There were rumblings/rumors that he'd leave Disney and join DreamWorks to work on 1998's The Prince of Egypt (Katzenberg wanted him for their animation department), but he stayed with Disney. I often wonder how much greater the already-great film would have been had it featured Keane's talent.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:57 pm 
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http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38686

Just pray that if he is indeed in a bad way health wise that he is well soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Oh wow, so I was right that he's staying on as executive producer. And directing animator, his forte! :D

Still, it's a bit upsetting that he's had to step down from the director's chair, and that Dean Wellins is off the project as well.

And I totally missed the part about his health. I really hope he gets better, it'd be really sad if he became the next Irving Thalberg, Walt Disney, or Stanley Kubrick (great filmmakers who died before their time and before their work was done).

albert

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:16 pm 
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I really don't know what to say.

But I just have to keep telling myself if John is a power-hungry man now, his friends would tell him. Friends being Pete Docter, Andrew Stanton, and Brad Bird. I am positive they would tell him to calm down and tell him if he is losing sight of being a great person. I think he is stressing himself out, he is doing WAY too much. I wish Disney would get back on their feet soon so John can go back to directing films at Pixar, have visiting friends from Ghibli, and just having fun at Pixar.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Mr arrow wrote:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38686

Just pray that if he is indeed in a bad way health wise that he is well soon.


Good to know that he is still heavily involved in the project. But I'm not surprised about him being sick. I saw a recent photo of him and he looked drain, tired. Granted, all of the new wave animators are very middle aged by now, but Keane looked so bad I started to worry about him.

Maybe this project has drained him? It has been seven years in the making.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:38 pm 
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I'm glad he's still involved, but lets not get too upset that he's not director anymore. I was upset when I first read this, but maybe he just wasn't a good film director. A lot of people can be great animators and lead an animation dept but it doesn't mean they can direct a film. Some people can be great singers and performers but they can't teach someone else how to do it. There has to be a talent for leadership to produce a great film, and maybe he just lacks in that field.

I like to have trust that Lasseter isn't some ego-maniac and that he really is trying to do what is best for the film. Afterall his future (and so is Pixar's now) is on the line if these films aren't successful.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:45 am 
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singerguy04 wrote:
I was upset when I first read this, but maybe he just wasn't a good film director. A lot of people can be great animators and lead an animation dept but it doesn't mean they can direct a film. Some people can be great singers and performers but they can't teach someone else how to do it. There has to be a talent for leadership to produce a great film, and maybe he just lacks in that field.


A recent example is the switch of the director's chair for Ratatouille from Jan Pinkava to Brad Bird.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:49 am 
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singerguy04 wrote:
I'm glad he's still involved, but lets not get too upset that he's not director anymore. I was upset when I first read this, but maybe he just wasn't a good film director. A lot of people can be great animators and lead an animation dept but it doesn't mean they can direct a film. Some people can be great singers and performers but they can't teach someone else how to do it. There has to be a talent for leadership to produce a great film, and maybe he just lacks in that field.

I like to have trust that Lasseter isn't some ego-maniac and that he really is trying to do what is best for the film. Afterall his future (and so is Pixar's now) is on the line if these films aren't successful.


That's what I was thinking as well. Now that we know he is still involved in the picture we can start thinking logically about this.

This isn't anything new and Lasseter is known for these sort of decisions, even before he became one of the big wigs at Disney. First, Finding Nemo was heavily altered before it was released. The voice actors didn't work and many scenes didn't sell the film well enough. True, this was Eisner's doing, but I'm sure that Lasseter agreed to it and now the film is a beloved film.

Then came the Tinker Bell films. If the rumors are to be believed, the first versions were really bad. So Lasseter ordered to delay the film and work on it some more. As far as I know, people have seen the film at "El Capitan" and think it as a good, if not great, film.

Now "Meet the Robinsons". While he liked the film Lasseter ordered the director to change many story elements, focus more on Lewis' story (since it was inspired by the director's own life) and tighten the narrative a little more. The film was a surprise hit, especially since "Chicken Little" impressed so little.

People think that Lasseter fired Chris Sanders. According the stories I heard I believe Sanders refused to change the film and thus quit. It seems like Lasseter was just using the same suggestions he did on "Robinsons". Except that Sanders was too proud of it and thus got fired/quit the project.

While "Bolt" may not be the prettiest film ever the reaction at "Comic-con" was a surprisingly warm one. I think what happened to "Chihuahua" will happen to "Bolt". People are so strung over the Sanders issue and the film's visuals that they might miss out on an honest to goodness film.

Like I mentioned earlier, Lasseter is no saint. When there's money and time involved you sometimes HAVE to be rough in order to get the best results. But he doesn't look to be the type of guy that would kill anything that doesn't meet his taste. He was an artist. He worked on small films before creating his first movie. He didn't get where he is today just because he pushed and shoved all the way to the top. He had to work hard and impress people. Its just that now, he's the one calling the shots.

The problem is that ever since the Pixar merger some fanatics are so high strung over it that they now see whatever they do as evil, vile and killing the Disney company. Last I heard, Disney still has control over many things. Second, if High School Musical and Hannah Montana haven't killed the Disney brand, nothing will :p .

Finally, now that we know that Glen is still involved with "Rapunzel" I think we should wait till the film (the same with "Bolt" and "Princess and the Frog") is released before claiming that Lasseter "killed it".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:09 am 
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pap64 wrote:

That's what I was thinking as well. Now that we know he is still involved in the picture we can start thinking logically about this.

This isn't anything new and Lasseter is known for these sort of decisions, even before he became one of the big wigs at Disney. First, Finding Nemo was heavily altered before it was released. The voice actors didn't work and many scenes didn't sell the film well enough. True, this was Eisner's doing, but I'm sure that Lasseter agreed to it and now the film is a beloved film.

Then came the Tinker Bell films. If the rumors are to be believed, the first versions were really bad. So Lasseter ordered to delay the film and work on it some more. As far as I know, people have seen the film at "El Capitan" and think it as a good, if not great, film.

Now "Meet the Robinsons". While he liked the film Lasseter ordered the director to change many story elements, focus more on Lewis' story (since it was inspired by the director's own life) and tighten the narrative a little more. The film was a surprise hit, especially since "Chicken Little" impressed so little.


Er. You do know Meet the Robinsons did about 33% less box office than Chicken Little? $98m compared to $136m? Enough with the Chicken Little bashings.

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People think that Lasseter fired Chris Sanders. According the stories I heard I believe Sanders refused to change the film and thus quit. It seems like Lasseter was just using the same suggestions he did on "Robinsons". Except that Sanders was too proud of it and thus got fired/quit the project.


It adds up to the same thing though. Bolt was Sanders, it was his idea, his story, his baby. No matter how involved Anderson was with Meet the Robinsons it wasn't really "his" story - it was an adaptation of somebody elses. So I can see him being more open to suggestions (which let's face it, were orders). I find Sanders dismissal offensive because Sanders created the single most marketable character for Disney in decades when left to his own devices, and could easily have done so again. (Pixars' films tend to be ensembles). In fact, Disney management had huge doubts about Lilo and Stitch at the time.

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While "Bolt" may not be the prettiest film ever the reaction at "Comic-con" was a surprisingly warm one. I think what happened to "Chihuahua" will happen to "Bolt". People are so strung over the Sanders issue and the film's visuals that they might miss out on an honest to goodness film.


It's an animated film. Visuals are important.

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Like I mentioned earlier, Lasseter is no saint. When there's money and time involved you sometimes HAVE to be rough in order to get the best results. But he doesn't look to be the type of guy that would kill anything that doesn't meet his taste. He was an artist. He worked on small films before creating his first movie. He didn't get where he is today just because he pushed and shoved all the way to the top. He had to work hard and impress people. Its just that now, he's the one calling the shots.


I agree and the same can be said of Jobs (another business leader who's often seen as a saint. Remember his temper tantrum about closing iTunes a couple of weeks ago just because he couldn't get his own way? Just like his public temper tantrums about Eisner during the Disney/Pixar distributor/purchase negotiations?).

I've nothing against Lasseter, Jobs, Eisner or whoever being businessmen, but I get annoyed when people can't accept that the public personna which is probably carefully controlled and managed isn't the real personna.

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The problem is that ever since the Pixar merger some fanatics are so high strung over it that they now see whatever they do as evil, vile and killing the Disney company. Last I heard, Disney still has control over many things. Second, if High School Musical and Hannah Montana haven't killed the Disney brand, nothing will :p .

Finally, now that we know that Glen is still involved with "Rapunzel" I think we should wait till the film (the same with "Bolt" and "Princess and the Frog") is released before claiming that Lasseter "killed it".


It's amazing everyone was screaming at Eisner, but nobody cares about the HSM/HM marketing. It's clear these are limited run properties for Disney (the actors will grow up) and yet Disney seems to be placing a heck of a lot of faith in them at the moment. But that's another issue for another thread.

I just find it odd people accept "management" changes when they come from John, but scream and shout when they came from other management in the past. Katzenburg did make some good artistic decisions (he also made some bad ones). Even Eisner made some good ones - remember it was Eisner who insisted on the Lion King stage musical.

Lasseter's decisions for Bolt do seem to make it sound generic, and overtly familiar too. That's why I'm down on Bolt. It appears "Disney"* just doesn't have the gall any more to do anything sufficiently different. If that attitude was around in the late 90's/early 00's who knows how Lilo and Stitch would have turned out? Cute fluffy alien pet wrongly accused of crimes helping an alien princess pursued by a wicked alien empress, helped by a young teenage earth boy just to the boy and the princess could fall in love?

Sanders work to me was exciting. Pixar's and Lasseter's so much is not, even it it is solid and satisfying.

The simple truth is, we'll never know if Lasseter's decisions were good or not. No one will see Sanders' Bolt. No one will see the original Meet the Robinsons. We can only take them on faith.

You know, as an aside, we seem to be getting far more studio politics stories now, than when even the dreaded Eisner was in charge.


* I use Disney is quotes, because this doesn't appear to be the thinking behind Pixar's own films which are increasingly experimental. Perhaps the problem is down to location and some people don't have as much access to Lasseter as others do to convince him of their story pitches?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:24 am 
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2099net wrote:
You know, as an aside, we seem to be getting far more studio politics stories now, than when even the dreaded Eisner was in charge.


that is actually not true. Back then Jim Hill had people leaking info every week. All story changes were immediately leaked. we haven't had an update on Rapunzel in months.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:30 am 
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Also, who is seriously surprised by this?

Glen Keane had never directed anything before. He may be an amazing animator but if you can't come up with a decent script after 7 years... maybe he should just stick to directing animation and not story.

But yeah, let's all be pissy at Lasseter. I side with the guy with the best resume here.

Also, here is the memo announcing Keane to step down:

Quote:
For nearly two years, Glen Keane and Dean Wellins have been
directing partners on Rapunzel. As Glen lessens his directorial
responsibilities to attend to some non-life threatening health
issues, their involvement on the project will shift. Glen will step
back as a Director but stay attached to Rapunzel as an Executive
Producer and Directing Animator. At the same time, Dean will move
into development to pitch three new ideas for one of our future
feature projects and focus on directing one of his CG shorts.


We are happy to announce that Nathan Greno and Byron Howard have
accepted to partner as directors on Rapunzel as we continue to hone
the story in anticipation of our Holiday 2010 release.

We want to welcome Nathan and Byron to the project and thank Glen
and Dean for their great contributions to date on Rapunzel.

Thanks
Ed


new projects? Well that should stop all these rediculous "Disney is shutting down and/or merging with Pixar" rumors

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