Hurt or Heal: Tim Burton Films

[Lazario]

Beetlejuice - 4 Points
Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 10 Points
Ed Wood - 2 Points (-2)
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 10 Points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands

[PixarFan2006]

Beetlejuice - 2 Points (-2)
Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 10 Points
Ed Wood - 2 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 10 Points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands

[Dr Frankenollie]

That's it! Batman Returns is going down, and whoever is the one to eliminate Ed Wood is going on my hit list.

Beetlejuice - 2 Points
Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 8 Points (-2)
Ed Wood - 2 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 10 Points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands

[Lazario]

That's it! Batman Returns is going down, and whoever is the one to eliminate Ed Wood is going on my hit list.

Bring.

It.

On.

[PixarFan2006]

If Ed Wood gets eliminated, Sweeney Todd's going down.

[Disney's Divinity]

Let it begin. (Funny, two Ed’s in a row. ) I’m guessing one of the Batman’s will win?

Beetlejuice - 2 Points
Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 10 Points
Ed Wood - 0 Points (-2)
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 10 Points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood

[TheSequelOfDisney]

^Batman Returns is actually at 8 points, not 10.

Beetlejuice - 0 Points (-2) ELIMINATED
Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 8 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 10 Points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[PixarFan2006]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 8 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 8 Points(-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Lazario]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 8 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 6 Points (-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Dr Frankenollie]

I’m guessing one of the Batman’s will win?

Not if I have anything to do about it.

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 7 Points (-1)
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 7 Points (+1)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Dr Frankenollie]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points (-2)
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 7 points

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Lazario]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 5 points (-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[PixarFan2006]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 3 points (-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Lazario]

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 1 point (-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Dr Frankenollie]

...I think Sweeney Todd is the best out of the three left, sorry.

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 3 points (+2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Lazario]

...I think Sweeney Todd is the best out of the three left, sorry.

We're all crying our eyes out.


Really.

[PixarFan2006]

...I think Sweeney Todd is the best out of the three left, sorry.

I cannot accept that.

Batman - 14 Points
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 1 point (-2)

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice

[Mooky]

Batman - 15 Points (+1)
Batman Returns - 5 Points
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street - 0 points (-1) ELIMINATED

ELIMINATED:
Planet of the Apes
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Alice in Wonderland
Mars Attacks!
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Pee-Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Beetlejuice
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street

[Dr Frankenollie]

I can't believe Batman Returns is going to get second place when it's amongst Burton's worst...the original Batman is very good, but it's not as good as Ed Wood, Sweeney Todd, Sleepy Hollow and possibly Beetlejuice.

[Lazario]

I can't believe Batman Returns is going to get second place when it's amongst Burton's worst...

Well, how does that work exactly? If enough people really feel what the characters are going through, doesn't that mean the movie was effective? Michelle Pfeiffer's portrayal of Selina's identity crisis is at least powerful enough to make up for lax connecting details between it and the rest of the story- life and the power struggle between Max and Penguin and Bruce/Batman goes on and seems to tell her she's not a player. But she is. I'm of course talking about the shot of her watching Penguin's speech as he is then consigned to the same kind of oblivion through people's apathy and disgust as she was. Even something that small that a lot of people didn't notice means so much to people who have connected with her character.

It's a really important movie about people who are thrown away after other people (people in temporary positions of power) are done using them. Audiences, enough people, know what that feels like. The movie is dreary and dark but it definitely captures that feeling very potently. It might be doing this in spite of some previous Batman comic book mythos, but it doesn't matter. Not when it's this good at tapping into something VERY few movies take a look at. Fuck the more social and galavanting Batman of other movies- Tim Burton's Batman is the only cinematic Batman who matters, dramatically, in my opinion. And the first movie was a better dark adventure. But Returns was a more deep drama. Even if it was campy or clunky at times.

I don't think it's perfect. For me, Penguin is the weak spot. But, you have to admit he gets KILLER one-liners. Lines that aren't just cool, they have power behind them. Again, if you were able to plug into the movie. It's a strong movie whether it's bad or not. I cared about it. Ed Wood may have been smarter or more clever but it didn't have the same amount of power as the Batman movies. Or Edward Scissorhands, and just look at it this way- I think both Wood and Sweeney lasted longer. (I haven't seen the whole of Sweeney Todd yet but I'm guessing it'll suffer from the same problem that plagued Sleepy Hollow and Wood- slick and loud and expensive but entirely lacking the heaviness that made me live through the Batman movies and Scissorhands. Hollywood wants everything to move along now, gloss over really important tone and mood details.)