TVs: Plasma vs. LCD/LED

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DancingCrab
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TVs: Plasma vs. LCD/LED

Post by DancingCrab »

I just returned an LED/LCD Phillips tv, because I was unhappy with the motion issues on it. The picture looked brilliant...as long as there were no dark colored objects moving too fast. I tried everything I could with the settings to get both the blu-ray player and the tv to do the 24fps thing, but it still looked terrible (a black smear around eyes and dark hair, that resembled a muddy juddering effect). After a lot of online research now... I think I am going to shop around for a Plasma. I never considered plasma before, because I was afraid of the "Burn in" issues that have become famous. It appears there are plenty of ways to avoid or fix this problem though after researching. I don't know, I personally would rather just have to take a little more care of my TV and get a better natural motion with my picture than something that drives me nuts.

They have some nice 3D Panasonic Plasmas, for about the price I paid for the LED/LCD smart TV.

So what do you have, and what do you like/not like about it?

(edited to add: All I watch are blu-rays and DVDs. I don't play games or watch sports, so the whole 120hz, thing isn't for me. I would always turn that off anyway, because of the "soap opera" effect it would give to major motion pictures)
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Post by dvdjunkie »

Wait a minute!!! 24fps???? What are thinking. 24 Frames Per Second is the rate of speed that motion picture film travels through the aperture of the projector.

You want to make sure than you have your Blu-ray set for 1080p, and also 16x9. I own an LG 55" HDTV Monitor with an Insignia Blu-ray player, and have never heard of what you are trying to describe.

With all big screen television you need a break-in period of 100 hours and then you need to have a professional calibration done to knock down the heat levels that are coming from the screen.

Are you using HDMI hookups? Are you sending the signal direct from your Blu-ray player to the television? Is your amplifier also HDMI friendly? There are a lot of things to consider before saying that it is no good.

I bought my LG and Blu-ray player through Best Buy and as part of the purchase, I was given the Black Tie program, and the Geek Squad services to set it up, and do the calibration after 100 hours.

I passed on Plasma because their lifespan is about half of what an LCD/LED HDTV is. And when it comes to repair the cost of repairing the plasma is about three times the expense of the LCD/LED televison.

Phillips is one of the worst according to Consumer Reports. They have a very good recommendation for each price range, and consistently comment on the short life-time of the Plasma televisions. Consumer Reports has quite the selection of recommendations for each and every price range, but they are staunch on their stance on Plasma screens.

It's your money, so no one can tell you what to do, but you should research a lot before you settle for a Plasma. Ask questions and don't be afraid to compare prices and options before settling on one brand. That's what I did and I love my LG HDTV Monitor and had several people who shopping for televisions look at mine and put it through its paces and then went out and bought the LG for themselves.
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Post by ajmrowland »

also be wary of artificial speedup settings
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Post by dvdjunkie »

ajmrowland wrote:
also be wary of artificial speedup settings
Just what do you mean by that? I have never heard of a Blu-ray player that has these settings.
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Post by DancingCrab »

dvdjunkie...actually, research is what has led me TO opening up to the idea of a plasma. There are a LOT of myths out there about them, I am learning. So, no I wouldn't be "settling" for anything less than the best I can afford.

I am still amidst in my researching, but right now plasma is in the lead as far what is the best bang for my buck.

I'm not asking anyone for a lesson on HDTV's and how to set them up, so much as asking people for their personal experience in owning either a plasma or LCD. If you own and love an LCD that's great to hear, but I'm not interested in hearing what you have "read" about plasmas. I am seeking answers from people with experience on them (or preferably both), as part of my continuing research.
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Post by Scamander »

I bought last year one of Samsungs new, super-thin 3D LED-TVs and was like you unhappy with the motion blurring and some other stuff. So I returned it to amazon and bought for half the price a 50" Plasma TV from LG and I'm really happy with it. The picture is now much more natural, because the colours are not as popping as with LCDs- it's more cinema-like, which is a plus for me (and I suppose for you too, because you only want to use it, to watch films). The motion, constant lighting and black levels are better and the Burn in is not really a problem, if you don't use a too high contrast for the first 100-200 hours. You will have afterglows, when you turn out your TV, but they will disappear as soon as you turn it on again.

LG is really good, but Panasonic it even better with the black levels and the customer service. My parents have two, and never had a problem afaik. The only advantage of a LCD over a Plasma is, that the contrast is much better, when you want to watch something at daylight. Not a big deal as long as you use it basically at night or are able to black out your room.

The 'Plasma have a shorter lifespan than LCDs'-argument is a myth. Yes- the Plasma panel has a shorter lifespan, BUT it last still for 11 years, if you don't turn of your TV at all! I doubt any TV, whether plasma or LCD will last for as long as the panel itself would work.
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Post by DancingCrab »

Thank you Scamander. This is what I am hearing pretty much across the pond about a good plasma being better for my needs. It's strange to me how when one talks about Plasma to certain people (who have never even owned one), they run around screeching like Chicken Little that the sky is falling when it comes to people preferring them over LCD. But it's always an "I have heard" argument that they start.
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Post by ajmrowland »

dvdjunkie wrote:ajmrowland wrote:
also be wary of artificial speedup settings
Just what do you mean by that? I have never heard of a Blu-ray player that has these settings.
many tvs have the option to fill in missing frames when set to playback at a higher framerate than the content, making movement look unnatural.

now, environment. if you watch movies with lights on, lcd, and if you prefer dimmer lighting, plasma
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Post by dvdjunkie »

Guess what? You don't know what the heck you are talking about. You are so misled that I can honestly refer to you as the fountain of misinformation. If Dancing Crab wants to enter into the Plasma world without asking the important questions like I did, then he deserves what he gets. There are no such setting on any televisions that I have ever seen or owned that you can speed up or whatever it is you are trying to say.

Another thing. If you are among those non-educated people who watch television (any kind) in a darkened room, you are doing more harm to your eyes than you will ever know until you get to my age. Ask your opthalmologist or optometrist (eye doctors) about what damage watching television in a darkened room does to your eyes. At worst you should have a 10 or 15 watt bulb burning in the corner of the room where the television is. Whether you have HDTV, standard TV, 3-D TV, LCD, LED, Plasma, you should NEVER watch television in a darkened room.

That is my lecture for the day.
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Post by UmbrellaFish »

No, ajmrowland is quite right. Here's an article about it: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-auto-motion-plus.htm

Often, this type of feature is what actually bothers people when they claim that they don't like the way Blu-ray movies look. Because they have additional frames and move smoother or appear to move faster.
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Post by DancingCrab »

dvdjunkie wrote:That is my lecture for the day.
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Post by Scamander »

dvdjunkie wrote:Guess what? You don't know what the heck you are talking about. You are so misled that I can honestly refer to you as the fountain of misinformation. If Dancing Crab wants to enter into the Plasma world without asking the important questions like I did, then he deserves what he gets. There are no such setting on any televisions that I have ever seen or owned that you can speed up or whatever it is you are trying to say.

Another thing. If you are among those non-educated people who watch television (any kind) in a darkened room, you are doing more harm to your eyes than you will ever know until you get to my age. Ask your opthalmologist or optometrist (eye doctors) about what damage watching television in a darkened room does to your eyes. At worst you should have a 10 or 15 watt bulb burning in the corner of the room where the television is. Whether you have HDTV, standard TV, 3-D TV, LCD, LED, Plasma, you should NEVER watch television in a darkened room.

That is my lecture for the day.
lol, dvdjunkie, get your facts straight before you are talking such a bullshit. And I'm refering there to your proven ignorance about plasmas, TV settings in general and the rubbish with the eye damage, with it nothing more than an urban legend. So, you are talking about non-educated people? Funny!
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Post by dvdjunkie »

Note to SCAMANDER: There is nothing uneducated with what I said. And if Samsung is the only brand to feature this "Auto-Motion Plus" feature then that is cool, because Samsung is one of the worst brands of television regular or HDTV that a person can waste their money on.

When you walk by any HDTV Flat Screen Monitor, be it a cheapy Apex, or the biggest Sony on the market, doesn't matter which brand, you will feel a lot of heat coming off the screen. This heat is what kills a television, be it a Plasma or LCD/LED or whatever. Calibration by a professional can bring this heat level down to almost nothing, and you don't sacrifice picture quality one bit. I have had this down on my HDTV and I am happy with the fact that it isn't warming up the room like it was when it was brand new. Calibration should be done after 100 hours of 'burn-in' and will add years to the life of your monitor, whether it's LCD/LED, Plasma or whatever.

As far as watching television in a darkened room (no lights whatever) it has been proven that it does more damage to your eyes because of the constant changes of brightness and contrast that causes your pupils to dilate at a rapid pace, some doctors will refer to it as 'R.E.M', rapid eye movement. This can cause headaches, in some people who have been diagnosed with other diseases of the eye, it can cause irreparable damage. There is such thing as an 'old-wives-tale' when it comes to watching television in a darkened room. I again ask you, since you don't think I know what I am talking about, to ask your eye doctor about this situation and proceed from there. I am not here to give scare tactics in any way shape or form, but just to let you know that watching television in a darkened room is 'bad' for your eyes.

When you go to a movie theater, all the lights are dimmed, but not all of them are shut off. In most movie theaters there are aisle lights or what we projectionists call running lights. A theater is never totally darkened for the same reasons I have stated above.
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Post by DarthPrime »

Samsung makes good sets. There are bad ones, and they had a big issue with some models and failing capacitors. Still overall they are a good buy.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Panasonic line of Plasma TVs. Burn in isn't a issue anymore if you take care of the set (do not leave it on the bright factory settings). The only issue with Plasma is some get image retention if something stays on the screen for a long period of time. Most Plasma sets now have a setting to wipe the screen if it happens.

If you only watch Blu-ray/DVDs I think a Plasma is worth looking into. I hear nothing but good things regarding color, etc... compared to a LCD/LED.
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Post by DancingCrab »

Thanks DarthPrime, so far from my shopping around, it seems I would have to spend way over my budget to get an LCD that comes close to the proper contrast, black level & "film quality" that one can get from an affordable plasma.

I went to a friend of mine's house yesterday to check out their Panasonic 50" Plasma, and even though they only had a 720p screen, it still looked AMAZING... better than anything I've seen in any store. She has had her TV for a couple years now. Every now and then, she has a SLIGHT bit of column box retention, that goes away as soon as she loads in something that fills the whole screen. She said "that's it, everything else has been perfect". Of course this was after she calibrated it properly. So I will make sure I get her help with setting everything up.

So, right now I am definitely leaning toward a Panasonic Viera Plasma. I may even spend a little extra and get a 3D (even though I won't be able to afford the active shudder glasses for a few more months)

I'm still gonna do a bit more research before buying though, so I don't have to return another TV. :lol:
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Post by Scamander »

dvdjunkie wrote:Note to SCAMANDER: There is nothing uneducated with what I said. And if Samsung is the only brand to feature this "Auto-Motion Plus" feature then that is cool, because Samsung is one of the worst brands of television regular or HDTV that a person can waste their money on.
It's a standard in every HDTV flat screen. Different brands use different names, but it's basically all the same.

As far as watching television in a darkened room (no lights whatever) it has been proven that it does more damage to your eyes because of the constant changes of brightness and contrast that causes your pupils to dilate at a rapid pace, some doctors will refer to it as 'R.E.M', rapid eye movement.
REM is is just another name for deep sleep, because of the "rapid eye movement" occuring in this stage of sleep!
This can cause headaches
Yes, it can cause headache and your eyes will become tired after a while, but...
in some people who have been diagnosed with other diseases of the eye, it can cause irreparable damage.
... this is not true. Because all the symptoms which may occurr are only temporarily and there are no long-term damages due to this.
When you go to a movie theater, all the lights are dimmed, but not all of them are shut off. In most movie theaters there are aisle lights or what we projectionists call running lights. A theater is never totally darkened for the same reasons I have stated above.
Well, I don't know how cinemas in the US handle this, but I worked in a cinema for a while and I lived in 3 big German cities (Berlin, Hamburg, Hannover) where they have many different cinemas (Berlin alone has 42) but I've never been in a cinema, where they don't turn off the light completely. Honestly, I also don't see a reason, why they should do that. Even if the projected image is completely black for a while, it won't be too dark in the cinema because of the light of the projector itself.
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Post by dvdjunkie »

SCAMANDER this is for you:

You are not a doctor, and you can't say that watching a television in a darkened room doesn't hurt your eyes over a long period of time. I wish that you just say what you mean, that you refuse to get on the phone and call a doctor for his opinion on this subject. I HAVE consulted my Opthalmologist about this and his words are: "Over prolonged periods of time, noticeable damage to the retina has been observed in several cases."

If you are going to buy a 3-D HDTV, they usually come with two sets of glasses, and you save yourself some money doing that. Personally I don't find 3-D television sets to be that "must-have" for me. But that is just me.

Consumer Reports magazine lists Samsung in the bottom 20 television to own at this time. Panasonic is in the Top 10 as are LG, Toshiba, and Pioneer. Whether it is a Plasma or LCD/LED monitor it is still recommended that you have it professionally calibrated after 100 hours of use. The difference between having a 'friend' do it and having it done professionally is huge. When it is done by a professional, you have a guarantee, usually up to five years, before it needs to be redone. A reputable person who does this will show what he has done, and the difference between what your monitor picture looks like now and what it looked like before. The heat coming off a Plasma or LCD television is lessened to almost non-noticeable.

You go ahead and get what you want, and what you think best serves your needs. No one should have the ability to spend your money for you. Good luck on finding that HDTV Monitor and I hope you make the right choices.
Last edited by dvdjunkie on Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DancingCrab »

Unfortunately, right now, there don't seem to be any Panasonic 3D TVs that come with glasses or players like some of the LCD/LED sets...and they happen to have one of the most expensive active shudder glasses on the market. I only have a few 3D blus (from combo packs), so this won't be a deciding factor in my final choice, just a bonus if it happens to work out. I also feel like 3D TV is still in such trial stages (Active vs. Passive etc.) so I'm not overly anxious to jump on that band wagon yet, as much as I love certain movies in 3D.


I'll have to put the "getting it professionally calibrated" on my list of things to do later down the road, as I have to stay in a certain budget for now. (I'll probably do that before buying a Ps3 or 3D blu-ray & glasses actually) but for now I'll use the Disney WOW blu-ray that she has offered to lend me, which seems to do a great job in the meantime.
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Post by DarthPrime »

I've heard great things about the Disney WOW disc DancingCrab.

Professional calibration is nice, but it can be expensive (Best Buy charges around $250 to get it done). Personally I don't think its completely necessary to get a long life out of your HDTV. As long as you don't use the settings out of the box your usually ok. Of course if I was spending a lot on a new set, etc... it might be something I would look into in the long run.

I've also noticed that not all 3DTVs come with glasses. It seems like all the Passive sets come with at least 2 pair, but with the Active sets it varies. One of my friends recently got a Samsung 3DTV and got no glasses. A guy he works with went a month later and bought a similar TV and got 2 pair of glasses free with a promo Best Buy had.

I'm not sure where 3D sets are going either. It looks like Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic are fully behind Active while Toshiba, LG, and Vizio are supporting Passive. There are pros and cons with each technology.
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Post by DancingCrab »

Just purchased a 42" 3D Plasma by Panasonic at Best Buy. My plan was to just go in and look at the TVs and then order one off NewEgg or Amazon, but they had the exact TV there that I was eying online and it was $100 cheaper (First time that's EVER happened at Best Buy) I used that $100 to buy the 2 year service plan. Now hopefully my Best Buy won't be one of the ones just announced as closing. But knowing my luck it will. :lol:

I set it up and had just enough time to play a little of Tangled, and the image and motion is a MILLION times better than the Phillips LED/LCD I returned last week. Will be getting the "Disney WOW" from my friend tomorrow to adjust the settings.
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