Yet Another Religion Thread

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Disney's Divinity
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

Siren wrote:But I have heard Christians say, you should put God above all others, including your own family. So if God came down and told you to kill your kids...do you? If he says, leave your children and spread the word of God, do you?
Yeah, that‘s really sick to me. Besides all the discrepancies, questions of authorship, and translation issues, this is one of the main reasons I don’t put much stock in the Bible or any other “holy” books--at least not as modern “how-to” ethics models. Like Duster said, a true God--at least, one that cares about you or the life it's created--wouldn't ask for a person to do that. Of course, we're assuming deities speak, literally, at all (although I'm sure some out there think so). I do believe in God/Christ, despite how it may seem, though I probably only ascribe those terms to a higher being because of my upbringing.
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Post by Siren »

Thanks for the clarification. Just needed a reminder of one of the main reasons I left the church. I left as a teen, before I even had children. I will continue sticking to Wicca.
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Post by Sotiris »

:lol: Accurate.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

I came into say two things. One is that pap64's idea that maybe a being came from above and brought us and all here and taught us all here and then left...or something like that? Well I was going to say that was a good idea, and maybe that is what happened. I only believe in a the Christian God, but it was a nice idea.

But the main thing I wanted to come in and say was remember when Dr Frankenollie said God was a monster, for all the bad he allows? Well, now I agree with that. The things he's done to me, and then considering all the evil that has been done in the world, has made me hate him sometimes, even though I also love him. I know you could think that without deep bad there couldn't be deep good, but if God can do anything, he could allow deep love and deep good but not allow the really horrible stuff like torture and killing, especially done to young children and stuff. I know that I should not think he's a monster and love him all the time (you can still get mad at God, I think the Bible allows that), but I do sometimes think he's a monster and hate him. So for that one thing I think Dr Frankenollie was right. And that he was also right about the "tests need to be equal" if bad things are supposed to test us. All the bad things in the world don't seem equal for everyone.

I still think the good outweigh's the bad though. Our existence itself is a good thing that he deserves love and praise for. But sometimes I still think he's a monster. Sure, heaven will make up for all of it, but...well if it sounds like I'm saying two opposing things, I don't know what to say except I think you can still think he's a monster but still forgive him when everyone gets to live happily forever in the afterlife. I hope for either heaven or no afterlife at all. Just an end to all the pain.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Dr Frankenollie »

It might well be considered tactless or a bit presumptive to say so, yet I would posit that the kind of hope, guidance and joy you understandably desire in your life cannot be fulfilled by religious faith. You will be perpetually tormented by doubt and uncertainty, as you quite rightly should be. From reading your posts over time, I think it's clear that the thing which anchors you to belief in an invisible man in the sky is your fear that a lack of God is synonymous with a lack of meaning. I wholly object to such a notion. Life can still be joyful when rational and atheistic. There is not a single study demonstrating that atheists are statistically less happy or charitable than theists (although there are plenty of studies displaying how greater education and scientific knowledge correlate with lesser theism). And it's not even necessarily a matter of creating your own meaning, which in my eyes is quite an intimidating philosophical burden. The meaning of life, from a human-centric perspective, is simply the pursuit of happiness. True happiness cannot be found through inane and illogical organised religions that have historically institutionalised sexism, racism and homophobia, have caused countless wars, et al. Any rational human being who stops to think about it for even a moment is able to see how transparently obvious it is that the idea of God is an atavistic myth, stemming from a rudimentary understanding of life on earth. The idea that all begins with a father and that humans are central to creation stem from the fact that, well, to humans, all things do begin with a father, and humans are pretty central to our lives. But there is not and has never been the slightest scrap of empirical scientific evidence explaining the God Hypothesis.

Richard Dawkins put it very aptly when he explained how the two big scientific mysteries were those of biology and physics. The mystery of life has been explained by evolution on a basis neither of intelligent design or random change, but of natural selection. The mystery of the universe has not yet been explained, but God is a complex being and, as with evolution, we may only reach complexity through incremental mutations. Theism is inadequate scientifically. As aforementioned, history demonstrates how useless and changeable theism is ethically. But philosophically, it as as much a distraction from cyclical misery as film, music and video games can be.

Disney Duster - you don't need god to live a happy, fulfilled life. You can do that yourself. But musing over the fundamentals of something fundamentally ridiculous is holding you back, just as any weak, vague reply to my criticisms of the God Hypothesis will be. Or you can change your life for the better by choosing to abandon your faith and finding happiness through other people instead.

You might find this compelling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF_Yl_slG6Y
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by thedisneyspirit »

I myself am thinking of going back to the church and pray to see if maybe I can feel better about myself. My depression and anxiety is getting worse by the minute, and I'm really lonely around here, and the meds can't help for so long...

I've always admired the image of Jesus, and being raised in a religious/Catholic household was made me know about the faith. I passed through my "i'm a needy teenager so i'll be an atheist just to piss off the family" phase, thankfully, and now I look back to religion with respect. I've never been fond of going to mass, but I wouldn't doubt speaking with a person who knows about this to see if this can help me.

in b4 somebody replies rudely saying how i don't need "fairytales" to "cure" my depression or some bs like that.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

Dr Frankenollie wrote:From reading your posts over time, I think it's clear that the thing which anchors you to belief in an invisible man in the sky is your fear that a lack of God is synonymous with a lack of meaning.
I think meaning should be and is independent of religious faith. Unless you're talking about religious meaning. Meaning is meaning.
Dr Frankenollie wrote:The meaning of life, from a human-centric perspective, is simply the pursuit of happiness.
I completely agree! I've thought that for a long time!
Dr Frankenollie wrote:you don't need god to live a happy, fulfilled life.
Well, yes and no. For some people, not believing in God will just be one little thing that doesn't bother them. But for me, believing in God goes along with believing in a soul and an afterlife and meaning that lasts forever and stuff like that, so for me, yes, believing in God is something I need. My life, or rather my personal wellbeing, actually got destroyed by believing in scientific or materialist ideas over spirtitual ones, mainly pertaining to a soul. I wrote about it in the "Universe has stomped on me thread".

To sum up an answer to the rest of your post (and I did watch the video, too), belief in God may not be from just primitive ideas. To believe in God is to believe in the power that made everything exist, not just some father figure. You can believe in God and also historical and scientific ideas. If you, specifically you, can't, I am sorry you can't, and I know why it seems logical that people can't. Things seem too opposing. But I can believe despite that, and I'm glad I can.

thedisneyspirit, don't give up! You can be happy! For me, personally, I found my feelings on church to be mixed. Singing joyous songs about God have uplifted my spirit, but mainly I find church very boring and feel like I don't need it lol. But sometimes just being in church was uplifting. You might like it, and it may do better for you. Praying is good, too. I do that. Even though I don't expect my prayers to come true, I still do it and it makes me feel good, and sometimes it does seem they come true. I think praying definately can make you get better.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by thelittleursula »

I used to be a Atheist, but become Christian about seven years ago. c:


However I haven't gone to church in ages, due to mental illness reasons.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

I'm glad you became a Christian thelittleursula!

I wonder how you became one and what illness has kept you from church, but if you don't want to tell us, that's ok.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by disneyboy20022 »

Sometimes also, there are churches who just do things that Jesus would just shake his head no at what they are doing.

I'm sure I've shared this before in another religion thread, but not in the past few years on this forum I don't think.

Growing up being diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome in 1996 was like living a huge nightmare not to mention my other medical baggage. When I was born I had a Bilateral Cleft Lip and Palate, and was repaired, however there are fistulas in the roof my mouth leaving air way to have an odd sound but nothing to deserve the treatment I got because of said sound.

We had our issues with the church we were going to, not to mention they thought it was me being manipulative with my behaiver and they thought this Asperger Syndrome Autism was a joke, however keep in mind that not as much was known about it then as it is now or even 8 years ago.

One day during a service I was nervous and did one of my small squeaking noise through the roof of my mouth and after the service, the pastor came down to me and said that I was disturbing him during the sermon and that I should know better than that. However my mom and dad came to my defense, however over the next few months, I was banished to the Sanctuary and if I acted up they instucted my mom to take me in the hallway. We put up with it for about two months before saying screw it. Ironically, that was the same year Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame came out, so I felt very much like Quasimodo and I related to him a lot. Keep this in mind I was 9 years old when that happened, but I decided to have churhc at home because I could continue being a Christian at home given the church and other churches were so judgmental at the time and many I imagine still are

Eventually though there was a new pastor that started there about 8 years ago and they reached out to my family and helped us so much and even came to visit us at our house, which no pastor had ever done that before. I told him of what happened and he was quite disgusted by it and he helped me move on better about it.

However my family moved to our current town about 6 years ago, and we were apprehenisve of finding the right church and not having to go through hell again, and of all the people who became negative about church was my dad, given the people who scrutinized me in 1996, were the sane group who kicked him out of college back in the 80s for being on TV at a mardi gras party getting drunk.

One church we found, was amazing, and the pastor even told my dad he liked AC/DC and WWE Wrestling and guess what? It's the best church we've ever been to in my life. They have been so accepting of me and others, and I never feel like I'm being judged and the pastors are very down to earth and it's just so refreshing and because of this church, I've never been closer to God in all my life.

A link below is to an Audio Player of several of the sermons the church has given over the past few years. Notable ones are My Hobbies from 2/5/12 where the pastor reveals how big of Lord of The Rings Fan he is, and other stuff

http://www.broadwaycc.org/#/resources/sermon-audio

Others are The Value of a Person 4/15/12 and Living Beyond Your Sense on 4/22/12 which are the most unique because it's done completely in rhyme, Doctor Suess style, because it's called The Gospel According To Horton Who Heard a Who

It's just probably the best Church I've ever been to and it has cemented my faith to Jesus.

One issue that I think in a good 10 to 15 years in the church that won't be an issue is the Gay is a Sin idea. That is a belief I don't share in at all and back in the 1960's it was a sin for an interracial marriage to happen and Christians no longer think like that either.

There is this Pastor who has a very powerful story who was Defrocked last year for being the one to wed his gay son. That link is below and I agree with everything this pastor says.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watc ... 7141827583
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

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Disney Duster wrote:
Dr Frankenollie wrote:you don't need god to live a happy, fulfilled life.
Well, yes and no. For some people, not believing in God will just be one little thing that doesn't bother them. But for me, believing in God goes along with believing in a soul and an afterlife and meaning that lasts forever and stuff like that, so for me, yes, believing in God is something I need. My life, or rather my personal well being, actually got destroyed by believing in scientific or materialist ideas over spiritual ones, mainly pertaining to a soul. I wrote about it in the "Universe has stomped on me thread".
Absolutely the same thing happened to me. I need faith and when I didn't have it, I was destroyed. I need to believe in a soul, that we are more than walking flesh and fat.

I was raised a Catholic, have just returned from a trip to Rome to see the Vatican (for the fourth time). I love the Vatican and all the history behind it but I can't say I go for any kind of pilgrimage. The catholic church has had one too many scandals and I can't agree with any of that.
I haven't been a practicing catholic for years, that kind of stopped when I suffered a nervous breakdown at University and developed a crippling fear of death. I still believe in God but my ideas have changed a lot from the Christian doctrine of what you need to do to get to heaven.

I think it can be very hard to believe in God when there is so much suffering in the world. I suffered 18 months of complete hell when my mental health was at its worst but I came out of it believing that my suffering may be for my own spiritual growth and indeed I feel I have grown. I've done quite a lot of reading on near death experiences and that has shaped a lot of what I believe. My belief is to be nice to each other. I honestly think that is the most important thing here for any of us - religious or not.

I believe in God, but I absolutely wouldn't go forcing my beliefs on others. For me that isn't getting the most out of life, just annoying and upsetting other people.
Last edited by MeerkatKombat on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

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MeerkatKombat wrote: I believe in God, but I absolutely wouldn't go forcing my beliefs on others. For me that isn't getting the most out of life, just annoying and upsetting other people.
I don't do it often just to avoid confrontation and for the reasons you said.

However last two weeks ago the topic of the sermon was defending the bible and why it's the truth and saying how the excuse of it's not fully translated correctly is false.

After church I have my mom drop me off at a diner by a card shop I play Yu-Gi-Oh At. The places was packed, so I saw these guys who sometimes go the card shop and invited them to sit with me just to save on space for others. Then the subject came out of that I'm religious. He then says how can we trust the bible because it might have not been translated 100% accurately. Was that irony, or God? I'd have to say God and that's what I believe.

Also at the service that morning I found out there was a 32 year old guy with Asperger's who goes to church and even goes to same card shop to play Yu-Gi-Oh as well and lives with his parents.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by carolinakid »

Just curious (or nosy) if anyone is getting ashes and/or fasting today?
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

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Disney Duster wrote:
Dr Frankenollie wrote:you don't need god to live a happy, fulfilled life.
Well, yes and no. For some people, not believing in God will just be one little thing that doesn't bother them. But for me, believing in God goes along with believing in a soul and an afterlife and meaning that lasts forever and stuff like that, so for me, yes, believing in God is something I need. My life, or rather my personal wellbeing, actually got destroyed by believing in scientific or materialist ideas over spirtitual ones, mainly pertaining to a soul. I wrote about it in the "Universe has stomped on me thread".
You don't "believe" in scientific ideas. The definition of science is the factual study and observation of life. Point of science is for man to study and find out why something came to be through math and observation. You don't "believe" in science. It's either the facts exist or not.

MeerkatKombat wrote: I believe in God, but I absolutely wouldn't go forcing my beliefs on others. For me that isn't getting the most out of life, just annoying and upsetting other people.
I fucking hate people who do that. Whether it's religious, political or even the extreme atheists out there.

disneyboy20022 wrote: However last two weeks ago the topic of the sermon was defending the bible and why it's the truth and saying how the excuse of it's not fully translated correctly is false.

Then the subject came out of that I'm religious. He then says how can we trust the bible because it might have not been translated 100% accurately. Was that irony, or God? I'd have to say God and that's what I believe.
Except your friend is right. I actually did a report on how the bible and Jewish people came to exist and who wrote it. The bible(especially old testament) will never be 100% accurate because it it was originally written in a language that has been lost (the Cannans). Also, the Bible been written by numerous men and sometime been revised numerous times over the course.

I'm not trying to rain down on you but it is true that it the bible will never be 100% pure and original. That one have been LONG gone. The original could even happen to be completely different for all we know.
disneyboy20022 wrote:After church I have my mom drop me off at a diner by a card shop I play Yu-Gi-Oh At.

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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

Wow disneyboy, what a story. What mean people at those churches. What they did to you was despicable. But I'm so happy you found good people and a good church.
MeerkatKombat wrote:I need to believe in a soul, that we are more than walking flesh and fat.
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!

And I, too, have realized some things after my depressing experiences have indeed made me grow, with great ideas.
MeerkatKombat wrote: I believe in God, but I absolutely wouldn't go forcing my beliefs on others. For me that isn't getting the most out of life, just annoying and upsetting other people.
I think as Christians we are supposed to spread the belief of God to other people, but you're right, we shouldn't force it on people.

Super Aurora, the human mind is an amazing thing and my mind is able to believe in whatever it wants. I am able to not believe in some things science says are true and I will exercise that ability. Call me stupid call me crazy call me childish I don't care there are some things if I believe in them I will not want to live, so let me go with this.
Last edited by Disney Duster on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by ajmrowland »

I dont know if i said this befire, but I'm an agnostic.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

Post by Disney Duster »

Agnosticism is a good idea ajmrowland.

MeerkatKombat, I swear you had a message before about science and religion going together. Maybe you deleted it, but in response to that I wanted to say maybe science and religion can go together, it's just that believing only the scientific parts is what ruined me.
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

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thedisneyspirit wrote:I myself am thinking of going back to the church and pray to see if maybe I can feel better about myself. My depression and anxiety is getting worse by the minute, and I'm really lonely around here, and the meds can't help for so long...

I've always admired the image of Jesus, and being raised in a religious/Catholic household was made me know about the faith. I passed through my "i'm a needy teenager so i'll be an atheist just to piss off the family" phase, thankfully, and now I look back to religion with respect. I've never been fond of going to mass, but I wouldn't doubt speaking with a person who knows about this to see if this can help me.
It can help yeah. The church feeling and songs, and just hanging around people can brighten you up for a while. Though it's not magical, and it won't cure you per say. Though it can help. Also you need to find the right church for you, going to the wrong place, can make you feel worse.
Disney Duster wrote:
I wonder how you became one and what illness has kept you from church, but if you don't want to tell us, that's ok.
Depression, it's nice having somebody that you speak too in a way, and you feel more safe, more calm, less worried. Life has been so much easier, thanks to God & Jesus.

My old friends have left the church, and I feel because of depression and social anxiety, a bit scared to try somewhere new. Sounds pathetic don't it ?
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Re: Yet Another Religion Thread

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Disney Duster wrote:
MeerkatKombat, I swear you had a message before about science and religion going together. Maybe you deleted it, but in response to that I wanted to say maybe science and religion can go together, it's just that believing only the scientific parts is what ruined me.
I did and deleted it, yes. I'm aware how easy it is to take things out of context on the internet and I had a fear it could offend someone, especially as religion is a sensitive topic. I wasn't happy with its wording.

That's basically what I said. For me they go together because I was a scientist in my past life (degree, science teacher) and my partner is an accomplished scientist. Counselling is also quite scientific but at the same time appeals to my spiritual side.
I also said that science and spiritual exist on separate planes for me and in the grand scheme of things have very few direct links with each other.

I'm glad people here can find solace in Church. Mass has never helped me personally but I like the atmosphere of (certain) churches when there are very few people around. I feel closer to my faith without someone preaching at me. Rome has something like 900 churches and most of them are glorious places to be. You can wander in and look around silently with maybe three people around you. That is where my faith usually hits hardest. But everyone experiences and perceives differently and you know what, that's OK.

When you have mental health problems a lot of the time it's just getting through the hour/day and things that bring comfort are few and far between. As long as that coping behaviour isn't putting you or others at risk then every day is a small victory.
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