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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Walt Disney Treasure

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Discs are finally available for the Interlacing problems 1-800-553-6937

Only three years later, but hey props for doing it.

The problem is only really apparent when you play them on a progressive scan disc player which I didn't at the time but do now.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:41 pm 
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That's weird. I have seven progressive scan DVD players, and have not seen any problem with any of the discs in the Golden Collection Volume 2. Wonder if you just got a bad set, or something.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:31 am 
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It may not affect every set, though that seems unlikely. Or it may be one of those issues that some people really need to scrutinize in order to see.... and even then, the vast majority of people can't see it. It may also depend on the quality/type of television it's viewed on. In my experience, conventional DVDs whether in 480p or upconverted look awful on HD sets with fixed pixel displays; so any mastering error may pale in comparison to the scaling artifact, anyway. Though it may be more easily distinguishable on an actual EDTV, provided you can find one.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:04 am 
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It affects all sets and I didn't see it. It would have been one of the last things i watched on a non progressive scan DVD player as I bought the progressive scan one in December 2004 and this came out the prior October. So I didnt see it. Just thought I would pass along that Warner's has finally got around to replacing it. They admitted to the problem initially and announced they would replace them. Just took them awhile to get around to it.

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Disneyworld Trips - 01/05

Disney Cruise - 01/05

Six Flags DK - 03/09, 05/09. 06/09, 07/09


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:14 pm 
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Still doesn't explain the problem. What is the problem that they are correcting. It would be interesting to see if I can spot it. I have regular televisions, and HDTV, and a front projection HD setup, and also one of my DVD players is a Blu-Ray and I use the upconversion on a regular basis. I purposely watched this set yesterday, and especially disc 4 and I couldn't see what was wrong with it, if anything. Do you have an example?

:roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:48 pm 
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According wikipedia:

Quote:
Also reported on classic animation websites is the inclusion of interlaced copies of a handful of cartoons, most of which are present on the DVD in progressive scan. Although the interlacing of the cartoons has not been as controversial among Looney Tunes fans as DVNR, many have nonetheless raised concern over the process and have insisted that Warner Home Video encode the cartoons onto DVD in progressive scan only. The interlaced cartoons on this collection are Bob Clampett's A Corny Concerto and Book Revue, Tex Avery's I Love to Singa and Hollywood Steps Out, and Frank Tashlin's Have You Got Any Castles. No interlacing is used for the cartoon shorts (but appears in the special features) in the PAL version of the collection.


So I guess, although the article isn't entirely clear, these particular shorts were hard telecined onto the DVD... and I don't believe hard telecined video can be properly displayed in progressive scan by a DVD player. Though I could be wrong. All video encoded on DVD is orignally interlaced anyway, though, so I can't see it being a problem without some additional glitch like that in there.


Last edited by TM2-Megatron on Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Why do we have to quote from a source that doesn't use understandable English terms for things? I am not a electronic genius like some here are. Isn't there someone out there who can put it into plain English exactly what the problem is? What is interlacing? What is DVNR? And I don't believe Wikipedia most of the time. They seem to have this thing about capitalizing on the smallest problem and making them seem like 'world-ending' problems. I take it from what it says that it isn't something that we, the common consumer will notice when playing these 'toons. I know that I didn't see any problems with them. They are cartoons, for God's sake, why all the nitpicking?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:50 pm 
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Interlacing effectively creates a double image or extreme fuzziness especially when there is quick movement. That is you can see the movement not only where it is supposed to be but also out in front of the direction of the movement.

DNRV is kind of the opposite. It is a process that cleans up the image of old cartoons and films. But sometime in addition to getting rid of the dirt and imperfections it gets rid of information(most notably black) that is supposed to be there.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:14 pm 
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dvdjunkie wrote:
What is interlacing?


Interlacing takes each whole frame of a video and turns it into 2 "fields", each of which only contains half the lines that make up the picture (one field has all the odd-numbered lines, while the other has all the evens). This lessens the bandwith needed to transmit video. Until the advent of digital cable/satellite, and HD services all cable services used interlaced video to broadcast. VHS and DVD both are encoded with interlaced video. The conversion to 480p is done within a DVD player, for compatible TVs.

When studios convert 24 frame per second film material to 29.97 fps video formats they take advantage of the interlaced nature of it and effectively spread every four frames of film over 5 frames of video (or 10 interlaced fields). On most good DVDs, though, only "soft telecine" is used, which preserves the video in its original 24fps and creates markers which instruct the DVD on which frames to double up and create the 29.97 fps video.

The reason I say those shorts may have been "hard telecined" is because the best form of creating progressive scan video for a DVD player is inverse-telecine, which uses those same markers to duplicate frames as opposed to fields. If those shorts didn't have any markers, a DVD player may be able to deinterlace it by other means (weaving, blending, etc.), but they rarely look as good.

dvdjunkie wrote:
What is DVNR?


Digital Video Noise Reduction... not really related to this problem; just something else people were complaining about on these sets. Some were of hte opinion that DVNR had been over-used to the extend that it created annoying digital artifact on the picture.

dvdjunkie wrote:
And I don't believe Wikipedia most of the time. They seem to have this thing about capitalizing on the smallest problem and making them seem like 'world-ending' problems.


Well, in that respsect they're really no different than any major American news network. The theme these days seems to be to blow everything out of proportion and try to create a fearful public.

I agree Wikipedia isn't always reliable, but I've found it's a decent place to get a very quick overview of a subject before beginning a more in-depth study.

dvdjunkie wrote:
They are cartoons, for God's sake, why all the nitpicking?


Because many regard them as historically significant content that should be preserved and treated with respect, I suppose? Also, the Golden Collection sets are marketed to adults, not children. Hopefully, (some) adults are more discerning than their offspring and may be bothered when a DVD set isnt' as good as it could be.

Besides, why do many of us aggravate over the Treasures that Disney releases when they don't live up to our expectations. It's the same principle.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:07 am 
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The best example of interlacing (for those who aren't quite sure as to what it is) can be found in the Cinderella PE. (suprisingly). Specifically when Lucifer tries to capture Gus under the cup just as he is transforming into the final horse. I believe there was another specific scene, but I can't recall exactly which one it was...There are screen caps out there on UD, but right now I'm a little tired and don't have the time to really go looking for the specific thread. :P I need to go to bed now... :)

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