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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:18 pm 
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One thing I don't get: Why would Walt make the MMC intro in color but not the actual show :?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:46 pm 
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Joe Carioca wrote:
Thanks for the answers!
A shame they dropped the blue bands... The new tins are going to look weird on the shelf beside the other tins. I liked to organize the tins chronologically, but now I'm gonna have to put these three new volumes after the past ones.


Well, I don't...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:19 am 
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Class316 wrote:
One thing I don't get: Why would Walt make the MMC intro in color but not the actual show :?


mmm several possible answers. take your pick

$
$$
$$$

;)

but seriously, the intros were probably done with his standart sequential Technicolor camera, while the daily episodes themselves were done with a regular standart "Academy" camera. (They weren't done on videotape weren't they?) The Technicolor Live action cameras were huge monsters using three rolls of b/w film simultaneously, and probably new (then) Eastmancolor one-film color stock was much more expensive than b/w too so for a daily one hour show (that would be like shooting the equivalent of 3 movies per week, 75 movies per season?) he may have decided to use the simpler Academy cameras with b/w film for somthing that would be years before Color TV was standart. The intros, apart that since they were animations, they were shot on the sequential Technicolor camera, could be used on possible future full color episodes w/o needing to reshoot them.
Another reason was to make us collectors worry about this things 50 years later ;)
and that mickey wizard looks cool in violet blue :P


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:58 pm 
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I wonder if maybe he filmed the intros in color because by that time - the mid-50's - the Disney animators had all been working exclusively with color since the end of the war - so about 10 years (hadn't they?) - I would assume it was just easier to let the animation staff work normally, that is, in color, and then also film the scenes in color since they might not look right if he'd filmed in B&W?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:03 pm 
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I think its likely the intros were filmed in color as he knew they would remain the same for several years. Who knows, perhaps he planned to film the whole thing in color in a year or two?

Doing them in color first of all would stop them having to be redone if such an event happened.

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 Post subject: deathie color lesson #34
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:37 pm 
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ohmahaaha wrote:
I wonder if maybe he filmed the intros in color because by that time - the mid-50's - the Disney animators had all been working exclusively with color since the end of the war - so about 10 years (hadn't they?) - I would assume it was just easier to let the animation staff work normally, that is, in color, and then also film the scenes in color since they might not look right if he'd filmed in B&W?


err i think thats closer to 20 years by then :)

What you're saying is that the intros were filmed in color by inertia, which is what i'm saying but with a slightly different take on it.

Disney was the first to use a full color (3-color) system for animation, the sequential RGB Technicolor camera, in fact I think he had signed an exclusivity deal with Kalmus (the founder of Technicolor) at the begining too. The sequential Technicolor animation camera is different from the Live Action Technicolor one. Instead of having three chambers for three rolls of b/w film (each for the red green blue color records) plus complex beam splitting optics and filters all housed inside a huge soundproofing camera blimp, the animation camera is almost like a normal camera that had a single roll of b/w film that was exposed three times for each frame (in other words, each frame was "clicked" 3 times sequentially trough red/green/blue filters) preserving the full nuance of colors on the permanent medium of silver based black and white negative that doesnt fade, (and let me tell you, the Technicolor color "records" have much more color in them that you have ever seen on ANY TV or computer monitor (or DVD mastered on a modern monitor), which can only reach about 50% of the color gamut of true Technicolor) so after converting to color animation, most everything animated would be shot that way from then on.
And since you can easily make b/w prints from color negatives and make them look any way you want them in b/w thru creative use of color filters during exposure of the b/w print material, (or just use the green record in a pinch since it mostly resembles shooting in b/w) there's really no reason to shoot animation in b/w unless you want to do it for "purist" reasons or cus you designed it that way.. Disney could save up 1/3 of the cost of film expenses by shoting animation in b/w, but then he could never make color prints of those instead.

As for the technicians not being able to make it look right in b/w because they were shooting in color for so long, well that's what cinematographers, and green filters, and dailies, and tests, are for, so that wouldn't be a reason. As i said, you can practically can have any b/w "look" made from color negatives, in fact you can make several versions by varying the ratios of the color filters and changing the development times/chemistry to increase decrease contrast etc (Today you do that in Photoshop!)


See this R Harris Technicolor system breakdown jpeg, and think about making b/w prints from color in reverse (going from bottom to top) and you'll see what i mean about creative control in b/w (i stopped shoting in b/w a long long time ago :P)

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/ ... wchart.jpg

Live action color photography was harder cus the 3 b/w films/records have to be shot simultaneously and be in register and the camara was dificult and huge and the filtered prisms/beam splitting optics needed lots more light than normal b/w or modern color film, etc etc. That's why tho live action Technicolor was a Superior Color process, it was quickly replaced when Eastman Kodak came up with a single color negative film that had the 3 b/w records on one base. (but that made it much much less acurate, saturated and pure. And unstable) On sequential "not moving" animation, Disney didn't really need to change and he kept the superior system (to the benefit of us that we can get beautifully restored as new 70 year old Snow Whites etc ;) )

But mmm, I guess the live action daily TV shows were mostly shot in b/w SPECIALLY cus they were intended for b/w tv, for the reasons i conjetured here and in my other post


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:22 pm 
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The list of extras for each of the new Treasures have been made available on Amazon.com and they show a few new items:

Mickey Mouse In B&W 2
*Mickey Mania: Collecting Mickey Merchandise
*Mickey's Portrait Artist: John Hench
*'Pioneer Days' And 'The Castaway' In Several Versions
*Art Galleries: Mickey Mouse, Fully Covered; Mickey's Poster Archive; Background Paintings; Animation Drawings

The Complete Pluto
*The Life And Times Of Pluto
*Pluto's Picture Book (Excerpt From 'A Story Of Dogs')
*Pluto's Pal Fergy (Norm Ferguson Tribute)
*Pluto 101 (Character Design And Animation)
*Art Galleries: Pluto On Paper, Pluto's Posters, Background Paintings, Animation Drawings

Nothing new for "Mickey Mouse Club"

I'm curious to see what these several versions of "Pioneer Days" and "The Castaway" are about. Maybe they are edited/modified versions made for TV? Hmm, and "Pioneer Days" was included on the first Mickey Mouse B&W volume, so the addition of this extra is kinda peculiar.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:57 pm 
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I have a color version of The Castaway I taped off of Disney Channel. Could this be what they are talking about. I mean it is called Mickey Mouse In B&W though.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:13 pm 
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There are colour versions of several B&W shorts. Probably done in later years for TV. Nothing special about that, I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:48 am 
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My order from amazon for all 3:

Item(s) Subtotal: $69.27
Shipping & Handling: $4.96
Share the Love: -$6.93
Super Saver Discount: -$4.96
-----
Total Before Tax: $62.34
Estimated Tax: $0.00
Gift Certificate Amount: -$10.00
-----
Grand Total: $52.34

Cost per title: $17.44
Cost per disc: $8.72

Not too bad :D


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:14 pm 
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I've only just noticed, and this may have been mentioned before, but isn't it odd "Trader Mickey" isn't in the "From the Vault" section?

Not being very familiar with the cartoons in general, I suppose I shouldn't comment (I believe Trader Mickey as some "cannibal" characters which are not racially flattering), but I wonder what could be in shorts like The Haunted House and The Moose Hunt which makes them "Vaultable" over Trader Mickey.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:20 pm 
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2099net wrote:
I've only just noticed, and this may have been mentioned before, but isn't it odd "Trader Mickey" isn't in the "From the Vault" section?

Not being very familiar with the cartoons in general, I suppose I shouldn't comment (I believe Trader Mickey as some "cannibal" characters which are not racially flattering), but I wonder what could be in shorts like The Haunted House and The Moose Hunt which makes them "Vaultable" over Trader Mickey.


We're getting them all uncensored. That is the main thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:56 pm 
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Maybe it's a vault's list typo and it will be "vaulted"..
if things like wearing native american feather "hats" warrant "WARNING Do not attempt to assimilate this stereotype mindset kiddies" messages...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:20 pm 
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Finally after all these months my favorite of all the "Walt Disney Treasures" "The Complete Pluto" is out and I just bought it last night. however, there are some things that should of not of been in there. First of all Pluto had 48 cartoons and this collection had 26 of them allthough some of them were released as Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck shorts. so why should they call it complete? they should of just put "The Chronological Pluto". Second I feel that the two cartoons "On Ice" and "Beach Picnic" were not nesecarry for the collection because they have been released allready and pluto is not the main character of them.


Last edited by bd3 on Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:55 pm 
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Does anyone know how many of each tin is being produced? I haven't seen any reported numbers. I expect that Mickey Mouse in B&W will be produced at a higher rate than the other two.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:16 pm 
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This question was just discussed last week in this <a href="http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6096">thread</a>
The basic answer is: still unknown

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:27 pm 
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I've just posted UD's first review of the new wave of Treasures, on <b>The Mickey Mouse Club</b>:
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/mickeymouseclub.html


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:33 pm 
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Luke wrote:
I've just posted UD's first review of the new wave of Treasures, on <b>The Mickey Mouse Club</b>:
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/mickeymouseclub.html


FYI Luke Sooty is a bear, not a dog! :D


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:51 pm 
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Great Mickey Mouse Club review Luke.
I can't wait to get all of the Walt Disney Treasure on Tuedays. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:31 am 
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Ok this treasure will kind of be like a week in a time machine for very early 50s TV beginings broadcasts :)

(like the Ed Sullivan/beatles dvd was for the early 60's "moment")

So it'll be an interesing history slice and some cool animated segments frosting on top

Maybe later (specially if this sells reasonably well) there might be MMC best of compilation discs shrinking/condensing the best momnents following over the years...

So now, wheres the other tin reviews? ;)

feed us! :P

Luke must be working furiousy in his lab on those. Better not send him any mile long dethi messages bothering him. At least for a while :P

;)


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