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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:53 pm 
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So yes, I know the whole backstory regarding The Wild. However, Disney still owns it and sells it as part of their movies. So I was wondering if I should add it to my collection. More so when in Spain (where I'm from) is included as part of the Animated movies and has the number on the spine.

So, what do you suggest?


Last edited by DC Fan on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:22 pm 
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I say if you want it, get it.

I'm in the minority in that I enjoyed The Wild. It won't be an enduring classic, but it was enjoyable. And frankly I enjoyed it more than and would be more inclined to re-watch it than some of the movies that are considered canon (Dinosaur, Meet the Robinsons) and (gasp!!) Bambi.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:37 pm 
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I think most of Europe features The Wild as canon. I haven't seen it in years but I was the target audience for it when it came out since I was the age that Disney was trying to attract to and I remember liking it enough then. Probably now I'd see it more as a Madagascar rip-off, like it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:10 am 
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What is the true nature of the film anyway? I want to know the backstory. If it is really Disney. If it wasn't made by WDAS it is quite obviously not a Disney Animated Classic. Personally I wouldn't get it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:31 am 
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I say go for it. It's considered a "classic" in your country and it's numbered so if you don't get it your collection won't be complete or uniformed.

It might be useful to you if you added a poll in this thread. You can always edit the first post and add one, if you wish.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:36 am 
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The Wild is included in the canon in all European countries, possibly in other parts of the world as well. In America it is Dinosaur that is included instead. It has probably been mentioned before, but the reason is Tangled. To promote this very expensive movie Disney needed something that would grab people's attention. So they decided to make it Disney's animated feature number 50 instead of 49. Otherwise the low budget feature Winnie the Pooh would have been number 50 (I don't think that movie is included in the European canon either). To do that they decided to make Dinosaur a part of the canon. An "orphan" movie that didn't really belong anywhere after The Secret Lab closed. The Secret Lab was probably meant to be Disney's version of Pixar, even if it never released more than a single movie.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:49 am 
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Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
To do that they decided to make Dinosaur a part of the canon. An "orphan" movie that didn't really belong anywhere after The Secret Lab closed. The Secret Lab was probably meant to be Disney's version of Pixar, even if it never released more than a single movie.


What I cannot understand is why they didn't do the same thing for the rest of the world. At least Dinosaur was developed and animated at a Disney-owned studio and if you watch the credits you'll see that it shares many of WDAS' staff. I believe it also credits some departments of WDAS.

DC Fan, if you want the movie then get it, but I would suggest not placing it chronologically with the other WDAS titles on your shelf. The official classics list that comes out of the WDAS themselves will always trump any other list that Disney Europe cook up.

Ignore the numbering on the spine and if you ever have nosey guests at home who question the way you order you DVDs/Blu-rays you can spend a nice thirty minutes telling them the whole story of how The Secret Lab came to be, how CORE Feature Animation has no ties to WDAS and how Disney Europe's marketing methods need a serious overhaul. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 am 
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Thanks. I remember watching it and not liking it. However, there are some true Disney movies that I don't like very much either and have them cause I'm a Disney fan and completist.

Dinosaur is part of the collection in Spain. Winnie Pooh, I believe, is also part of the collection. Just so that it hasn't been released on BD... The same way we're still waiting for the release of the original The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh and The Great Mouse Detective.

By the way, it's funny how it is easier to find more information regarding The Wild than The Black Cauldron.

I think than, in the end, I'll be adding The Wild just because of having an uniform collection.

Also, if I'm about to have a Madagascar type of movie I rather have The Wild that, for whatever reason Disney supported and supports, while I never liked Madagascar. If anything I think I liked only the third one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:22 pm 
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DC Fan wrote:
Dinosaur is part of the collection in Spain. Winnie Pooh, I believe, is also part of the collection. Just so that it hasn't been released on BD... The same way we're still waiting for the release of the original The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh and The Great Mouse Detective.


It's the first time I have heard about a European country following the same list the American one. But there could of course be others as well (Spain, along with Belarus, is also in the frustration situation that they have to wait ten more years for something to enter public domain compared to other European countries).

What about The Rescuers? Have that movie been released on Blue-Ray yet? At least I don't think it has been digitally restored. Not that I'm a big fan of restorations.

The Black Cauldron happened in the days before WWW, and for many years it was a movie Disney tried to forget, like George Lucas' Star Wars Holiday Special, and not much was written about it after the release. Which is too bad, because the story behind the movie itself could probably be made into an interesting documentary (I have added some of the information to Wikipedia, but it is still very little).


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Un this link you'll find a picture of the Dinosaur BD and you'll see the number on the spine as well as the world Classics (in Spanish of course).

https://www.google.es/search?safe=off&t ... QZ1YbJK-TM:

As for The Rescuers both were released and restored (I'd say the same one that in USA). Each one individually. The same for all the animated movies and the ones that have sequels don't come with it.

https://www.google.es/search?safe=off&t ... NTfwaomG3M:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:00 pm 
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All the animated movies that are classics in the US are also classics in Spain, but they have added two that are not on the American list: The Wild, as DC Fan said, and Piglet's Big Movie. Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks have also been labelled as honorary classics here, though they don't have a number. From Snow White to Treasure Planet the Spanish canon is the same as the American one, but after that last movie it looks like this (films added in bold):

44. Piglet's Big Movie
45. Brother Bear
46. Home on the Range
47. Chicken Little
48. The Wild
49. Meet the Robinsons
50. Bolt
51. The Princess and the Frog
52. Tangled
53. Winnie the Pooh
54. Wreck-It Ralph
55. Frozen
56. Big Hero 6
57. Zootopia
58. Moana

HONORARY CLASSICS
Mary Poppins
Bedknobs and Broomsticks

I don't know why they have added The Wild and Piglet's Big Adventure to the collection. It can't be because of Tangled like in the US, given that the film isn't the 50th classic in our country. I suppose it is to have more titles to sell, but in that case, why haven't they kept adding more movies owned by Disney like Gnomeo & Juliet or Strange Magic?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:59 am 
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Funny that Piglet's Big Movie is counted as canon but not The Tigger Movie.

Also love that Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks count as honorary classics. I do find it funny that Pete's Dragon is left out (rightfully so imo since it doesn't hold a candle to those two films). It's too bad Enchanted doesn't count as an honorary classic though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:02 am 
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Now that Tangled came out they should remove Dinosaur along with the package features.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:52 pm 
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And honestly, Winnie the Pooh is a much better film to be designated as Disney's 50th animated classic, compared to Tangled. I doubt Tangled made much more at the box office because it was the "50th," and I personally don't even remember it being branded as such in the marketing except for in the bonus features of the film and an occasional online article. Winnie the Pooh could have used that extra push.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:13 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Funny that Piglet's Big Movie is counted as canon but not The Tigger Movie.

Also love that Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks count as honorary classics. I do find it funny that Pete's Dragon is left out (rightfully so imo since it doesn't hold a candle to those two films). It's too bad Enchanted doesn't count as an honorary classic though.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense that Piglet's Big Movie is included and not The Tigger Movie. And if Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks are honorary classics, Pete's Dragon and Enchanted should be too. And also Song of the South and So Dear to My Heart, though we know they would never include Song of the South.

Personally, I don't like the addition of Piglet's Big Movie and The Wild and I don't understand why Disney allowed other countries to have their own canons. Those two films, for example, don't have the same quality as the other classics. Not just the quality of the movies themselves, but the quality of the animation. The Wild doesn't even have a Disney style, though neither does Dinosaur to be fair. I wish Disney Spain would change their canon for the American one, but I don't think that's going to happen. And frankly, it would be confusing for consumers, at least right now. Maybe when they begin releasing the films in 4K, it would be a good moment for Europe and other countries to adjust to the US canon.

Disney Duster wrote:
Now that Tangled came out they should remove Dinosaur along with the package features.

Personally, I'm really glad Disney counts the package features as classics. If they weren't, they would be even more forgotten and more difficult to acquire, like The Reluctant Dragon or Victory Through Air Power are. At least this way they get released from time to time, so fans can complete their collections.

JeanGreyForever wrote:
I doubt Tangled made much more at the box office because it was the "50th," and I personally don't even remember it being branded as such in the marketing except for in the bonus features of the film and an occasional online article.

The countdown video of the 50 classics that is on the bluray as a bonus feature was also released online before the film opened in theaters and the logo is featured at the beginning of the movie, but apart from that I don't remember there was much promotion of it either.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:17 am 
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If Winnie the Pooh had been 50th it probably would have been worthy (I haven't seen it yet). The package features I get people wanting on because they have lots of WDAS animation and make it easier to own them but I am into pure collections where I see everything fitting perfectly.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:50 pm 
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D82 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Funny that Piglet's Big Movie is counted as canon but not The Tigger Movie.

Also love that Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks count as honorary classics. I do find it funny that Pete's Dragon is left out (rightfully so imo since it doesn't hold a candle to those two films). It's too bad Enchanted doesn't count as an honorary classic though.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense that Piglet's Big Movie is included and not The Tigger Movie. And if Mary Poppins and Bedknobs and Broomsticks are honorary classics, Pete's Dragon and Enchanted should be too. And also Song of the South and So Dear to My Heart, though we know they would never include Song of the South.

Personally, I don't like the addition of Piglet's Big Movie and The Wild and I don't understand why Disney allowed other countries to have their own canons. Those two films, for example, don't have the same quality as the other classics. Not just the quality of the movies themselves, but the quality of the animation. The Wild doesn't even have a Disney style, though neither does Dinosaur to be fair. I wish Disney Spain would change their canon for the American one, but I don't think that's going to happen. And frankly, it would be confusing for consumers, at least right now. Maybe when they begin releasing the films in 4K, it would be a good moment for Europe and other countries to adjust to the US canon.


I'm surprised Bedknobs and Broomsticks is included as an honorary classic. Mary Poppins makes sense because it is such a popular and iconic movie, but Bedknobs never reached that level of fame, so it is surprising that Bedknobs is considered an honorary classic over the arguably better known Pete's Dragon. Especially since the latter just had a live-action remake to boost its exposure as well. Personally, Bedknobs is my favorite of the three so I'm glad it gets this status (a mostly meaningless status nevertheless). I'm not surprised that So Dear to My Heart is excluded since for some reason, Disney jumbles it up with Song of the South. At least in Disney Tokyo, the film gets some love with merchandise for Danny.

D82 wrote:
Disney Duster wrote:
Now that Tangled came out they should remove Dinosaur along with the package features.

Personally, I'm really glad Disney counts the package features as classics. If they weren't, they would be even more forgotten and more difficult to acquire, like The Reluctant Dragon or Victory Through Air Power are. At least this way they get released from time to time, so fans can complete their collections.


I don't completely mind the European countries having their own different canons. Several of their films don't even have the same title in those countries such as Moana, Zootopia, Tangled, Frozen, The Great Mouse Detective, etc. (it's funny that most of those titles are the newer ones) and frankly even the US canon was only made "official" for Tangled's sake, so I don't abide by it either. From what I've heard on here, it was very different pre-1986, with no package films, and the live-action/animation hybrid films included and the "canon" was only modified when Song of the South was removed. It wouldn't even surprise me if in a few years, Disney shakes up their canon again to promote their newest milestone.

D82 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I doubt Tangled made much more at the box office because it was the "50th," and I personally don't even remember it being branded as such in the marketing except for in the bonus features of the film and an occasional online article.

The countdown video of the 50 classics that is on the bluray as a bonus feature was also released online before the film opened in theaters and the logo is featured at the beginning of the movie, but apart from that I don't remember there was much promotion of it either.


I'm not sure how well the package films are being treated now though even with their "canon" status. Ichabod and Mr. Toad is the most well known one which is why it got a Blu-Ray Release. Fun and Fancy Free (even with Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) was mostly released as a joint title with Ichabod and Mr. Toad, and The Reluctant Dragon was at least included with that in some editions as well. Only after years of waiting have we gotten Saludos Amigos/The Three Cabelleros (despite how much exposure these films have in Disney California Adventure anyway, at least during the holiday season), and only as a barebones Disney Movie Club exclusive. Still censored with no bonus features whatsoever, and the release isn't even to the general public, so most people still won't be aware of it. Not to mention, short of buying it from Ebay, anyone outside of North America doesn't have access to it. And the rest of the package films still don't look likely to come anytime soon. So I don't think they've really benefited from being counted as part of the canon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:09 pm 
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DC Fan wrote:
Un this link you'll find a picture of the Dinosaur BD and you'll see the number on the spine as well as the world Classics (in Spanish of course).


Well, I did believe you, I just hadn't heard about it before.

DC Fan wrote:
As for The Rescuers both were released and restored (I'd say the same one that in USA). Each one individually. The same for all the animated movies and the ones that have sequels don't come with it.


After checking an online store, it seems the movie has been released in Blu-ray here as well. But for some reason I have never seen anything than a normal DVD in the physical stores.

D82 wrote:
Maybe when they begin releasing the films in 4K, it would be a good moment for Europe and other countries to adjust to the US canon.


If they start to release it all over again on the new 4K format, they could release the "pure" features as an independent line. I don't feel Dinosaur belongs there, since it was added years after its original release, because it is kind of photorealistic animation (even if the characters are anthropomorphic to some degree) and because the background is live action. Saludos Amigos, The Three Caballeros and Fun and Fancy Free doesn't feel like they belong either.
Maybe Make Mine Music, Melody Time and The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad. Not sure, it has been some time since I saw them.

Mary Poppins, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Pete's Dragon, Song of the South (I seriously don't see the problem with the movie), The Reluctant Dragon, So Dear to my Heart and so on (possibly including Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros), could be released as their own kind of canon to make sure they weren't forgotten.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:34 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
From what I've heard on here, it was very different pre-1986, with no package films, and the live-action/animation hybrid films included and the "canon" was only modified when Song of the South was removed.

I didn’t know that. Now I understand better why some fans aren’t happy with the current canon.

Personally, with the possible exception of Dinosaur, I think the list is quite accurate. It includes all the theatrically released features produced at WDAS that are mostly animated. (With the exception of Victory Through Air Power, which is basically a documentary, so I understand its exclusion.)

But I agree that there can be other ways of categorizing them, depending on the criteria you use. I can understand that some would prefer all the classics to be one complete stories and not anthology films, while others would like to see all the feature films that Walt released which include some animation (like The Reluctant Dragon, Song of the South, etc.) included.

However, if you excluded all the anthology films, then you should also exclude the two Fantasias and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. And if, for instance, you dismiss any film with live-action footage, the Fantasias wouldn’t be part of the collection either, and if you were to be very strict, not even Lilo & Stitch (it features live-action images on a TV) or the Walt Disney movies that open with a live-action book, like Snow White or The Jungle Book.


JeanGreyForever wrote:
and frankly even the US canon was only made "official" for Tangled's sake

Really? Wasn’t it made official earlier? In Spain, I remember that on the back of the case of the Hercules VHS, which was released in 1998, already said that it was classic number 35.


JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'm not sure how well the package films are being treated now though even with their "canon" status. Ichabod and Mr. Toad is the most well known one which is why it got a Blu-Ray Release. Fun and Fancy Free (even with Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) was mostly released as a joint title with Ichabod and Mr. Toad, and The Reluctant Dragon was at least included with that in some editions as well. Only after years of waiting have we gotten Saludos Amigos/The Three Cabelleros (despite how much exposure these films have in Disney California Adventure anyway, at least during the holiday season), and only as a barebones Disney Movie Club exclusive. Still censored with no bonus features whatsoever, and the release isn't even to the general public, so most people still won't be aware of it. Not to mention, short of buying it from Ebay, anyone outside of North America doesn't have access to it. And the rest of the package films still don't look likely to come anytime soon. So I don't think they've really benefited from being counted as part of the canon.

What I meant is that at least they keep releasing them once on every new format they launch (VHS, DVD and now Blu-ray, hopefully), to make it possible for collectors to complete their collections. If they weren’t part of the collection, maybe they wouldn’t even do that. But you’re right that they are not treated as well as most classics. Though they are not the only ones. The Black Cauldron hasn’t been released on Blu-ray yet either, nor Winnie the Pooh, for instance, on many countries. And most of the lesser known classics barely have bonus features as well.

The announcement of the Saludos Amigos / The Three Caballeros Blu-ray combo was actually good and bad news at the same time. It’s great it’s finally released on the format, but it should have been released to the general public and not as a DMC exclusive. I think the remaining two package films to be released on Blu-ray (Make Mine Music and Melody Time) will eventually be available as a combo pack as well, though probably as DMC exclusives too, unfortunately.


Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
I don't feel Dinosaur belongs there, since it was added years after its original release, because it is kind of photorealistic animation (even if the characters are anthropomorphic to some degree) and because the background is live action.

When Dinosaur was released it was promoted as the new Disney film, at least in my country, and I was unaware at the time that it was actually made at an external studio, so it’s easier to me to accept it as a classic. But I agree that there are several reasons why it shouldn’t be one.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:24 pm 
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D82 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
and frankly even the US canon was only made "official" for Tangled's sake

Really? Wasn’t it made official earlier? In Spain, I remember that on the back of the case of the Hercules VHS, which was released in 1998, already said that it was classic number 35.

Yes, the Disney canon numbers technically already existed way before Tangled. Even in the 90s, if you look at the trailers and promotion, Disney films would be labeled by number so Pocahontas was the 33rd animated feature, etc. I meant that films like Dinosaur/The Wild were not part of the canon until it was decided to make Tangled the 50th animated feature. All the rest, counted though.

D82 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I'm not sure how well the package films are being treated now though even with their "canon" status. Ichabod and Mr. Toad is the most well known one which is why it got a Blu-Ray Release. Fun and Fancy Free (even with Mickey, Donald, and Goofy) was mostly released as a joint title with Ichabod and Mr. Toad, and The Reluctant Dragon was at least included with that in some editions as well. Only after years of waiting have we gotten Saludos Amigos/The Three Cabelleros (despite how much exposure these films have in Disney California Adventure anyway, at least during the holiday season), and only as a barebones Disney Movie Club exclusive. Still censored with no bonus features whatsoever, and the release isn't even to the general public, so most people still won't be aware of it. Not to mention, short of buying it from Ebay, anyone outside of North America doesn't have access to it. And the rest of the package films still don't look likely to come anytime soon. So I don't think they've really benefited from being counted as part of the canon.

What I meant is that at least they keep releasing them once on every new format they launch (VHS, DVD and now Blu-ray, hopefully), to make it possible for collectors to complete their collections. If they weren’t part of the collection, maybe they wouldn’t even do that. But you’re right that they are not treated as well as most classics. Though they are not the only ones. The Black Cauldron hasn’t been released on Blu-ray yet either, nor Winnie the Pooh, for instance, on many countries. And most of the lesser known classics barely have bonus features as well.

The announcement of the Saludos Amigos / The Three Caballeros Blu-ray combo was actually good and bad news at the same time. It’s great it’s finally released on the format, but it should have been released to the general public and not as a DMC exclusive. I think the remaining two package films to be released on Blu-ray (Make Mine Music and Melody Time) will eventually be available as a combo pack as well, though probably as DMC exclusives too, unfortunately.

You're right that it helped for VHS and DVD, but by Blu-ray, it seems Disney is back to recognizing the films as second class citizens in their library. Disney's always been weird about The Black Cauldron, and it probably wouldn't be nearly as much a black sheep these days if it wasn't hidden away completely. I imagine we will eventually see Make Mine Music and Melody Time in a 2 film collection, but if Saludos Amigos/The Three Caballeros couldn't make it to the general public, with Donald and Goofy on the cover, then I doubt the former films will ever get a general release outside of the DMC. To be fair, it's mostly just hardcore animation fans and completists who are really interested in these films. Even many major Disney fans find those films boring, although that's certainly not a reason to hold them back so long and give them such shoddy treatment.

Disney's just plain terrible with bonus features. The Virtual Vault was devastating for films like The Lion King, Pocahontas, Fantasia, etc. and the Signature Lion has removed most of the bonus features, for only a handful of new features that usually involve the Disney Channel. Even their new releases for films like Frozen, Big Hero 6, Wreck-It Ralph, The Jungle Book, Cinderella, etc. barely got any bonus features, or at least not too many on the disc.

D82 wrote:
Rumpelstiltskin wrote:
I don't feel Dinosaur belongs there, since it was added years after its original release, because it is kind of photorealistic animation (even if the characters are anthropomorphic to some degree) and because the background is live action.

When Dinosaur was released it was promoted as the new Disney film, at least in my country, and I was unaware at the time that it was actually made at an external studio, so it’s easier to me to accept it as a classic. But I agree that there are several reasons why it shouldn’t be one.

I remember Dinosaur being promoted as a Disney film as well, at least in the US. The trailers and promotion for the film were all over Disney Channel, and it had McDonalds toys and merchandise like puzzles in the store, like every other Disney film. I was really young then so I don't remember everything, but I know that I wouldn't have likely seen the movie had it not been for the Disney label. So I've never had much of an issue with this film being counted either, except for it just being boring. I suppose the Dinosaur ride in the Animal Kingdom helps as well.


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