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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:44 am 
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Finally!! Now hopefully we can start erasing him from the studios. Him and his fugly shirts. Time for a woman to take over WDAS if you’d ask me.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:50 am 
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Lasseter should be finished now that this is coming out. Apparently it was a pretty open secret in the animation community and it was only a matter of time until it trickled out to the public. That time is now.

I have to say I do think it's in poor taste to find personal enjoyment in this right now though. Almost all of us want 2D animation to be brought back, at least to some degree, but that isn't necessarily happening just because of this. And winning petty squabbles on the internet with people who were fans of Lassetter certainly isn't what's important right now. It's not as if they could have known this. Many celebrities are being exposed right now, and there will be many more to come, including some people that you may actually be fans of. Justice for the victims is ultimately what's important, not trivial fan wars.

I've defended the slate of films under Lasseter's reign as a whole, while not particularly caring about the man himself or even being too knowledgeable of his management style other than hearing things here and there about his tyrant tendencies. I'll still continue to enjoy a lot of those films regardless because they sure as hell aren't sole creations of one man. Countless hours of hard work, creativity, and artistry went into each from teams of hundreds of individuals with infinite more talent than Lasseter, and their efforts shouldn't be diminished just because they had an awful boss.

With that said, the power clearly went to his head and he certainly accumulated more and more of it. People were certainly right about that. It's time for new blood to rise to the top.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:53 am 
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Good on his victims for speaking up :clap:

Here's hoping that he's not allowed back and that his successor avoids and has avoided wreched behavior

Good ideas about film making and bad ideas about how to treat People are not mutually inclusive :glare:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:16 am 
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Lordy lordy, what an awful situation. :| I agree that he needs to be held accountable and that his departure (whether temporary or permanent) in the light of these allegations is only appropriate. But I am concerned that some of the things that people are writing here (particularly feelings of jubilation) honestly seem fuelled more by beef about Disney and Pixar's projects over the past few years and about people deifying Lasseter. That's not implying that I don't think we have to agree with the direction either Disney or Pixar are going, or with the cult of personality surrounding Lasseter (I for one have always found it a bit silly and dubious), but there are people who have been greatly perturbed and hurt in this, and they are the people we should be thinking of in my opinion. My thoughts go out to them and I'm glad that they're finally feeling brave enough to fight against this toxic culture. It's still relatively early days, but hopefully this revolution of sorts will at least stop this nasty behaviour in society.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:57 am 
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I think a lot of the jubilant responses are from people who’ve been complaining for years about Lasseter’s boys club mentality/workplace culture, where women and minorities are second class, and are not surprised one bit by these revelations. Obviously our hearts and sympathy are with people who’ve been victimized. But the thing is, the reason this cultural shift is happening is precisely because victims are feeling empowered and no longer like victims. They’re being heard. And they’ve had enough.

I applaud those in particular who have the strength to address what happened to them and still manage to take the high road. I work for one of Disney’s competitors and can guarantee you this behavior is everywhere. I’ve been subjected to homophobia and see women around me subjected to worse. Maybe I’m not the bigger person for expressing it like this, but I feel a sense of vindication and satisfaction at seeing those abusing their position of power falling from their thrones. It’s high time.

And there is no way back, this is only just beginning.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:44 am 
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With that said, the power clearly went to his head and he certainly accumulated more and more of it. People were certainly right about that. It's time for new blood to rise to the top.


Agreed. To be honest through, I don't think this is a Harvey Weinstein or Charlie Rose level of terrible. But he should definitely not come back.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:33 pm 
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I have the utmost respect for the creativity that John Lasseter has displayed over the years. But, if even some of this is true, which it's looking like it is, his six-month vacation needs to become a permanent one. Whether it's the entertainment industry, politics, or any other business type, people need to keep standing up and stopping anyone who thinks they can sexually assault other people just because they're in a position of power. While there might be a setback by firing Lasseter, if the company ultimately survived the death of Walt, it will definitely survive John's.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:44 pm 
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Women and minorities are most definitely being more empowered now. With the current state of events in America (and other countries too), can you blame them? I know I want to challenge certain individuals who think less of me because I'm a young woman.

It's like a cascade of uncomfortable truths this year, not just in Hollywood but everywhere. But it's good in the long run because now we know how commonplace sexism/prejudice is and can work on improving the situation.

I feel bad, though, that so many people had to keep these issues secret and pretend everything was sunshine and rainbows. It's as if the default is to shut up and let it happen, and if you complain you lose your job, your reputation, all of it. Fear controls a lot of us. More and more are getting tired of it though, which is great. None of us should be coddled with lies, we should know the truth.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:21 pm 
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PatrickvD wrote:
I think a lot of the jubilant responses are from people who’ve been complaining for years about Lasseter’s boys club mentality/workplace culture, where women and minorities are second class, and are not surprised one bit by these revelations. Obviously our hearts and sympathy are with people who’ve been victimized. But the thing is, the reason this cultural shift is happening is precisely because victims are feeling empowered and no longer like victims. They’re being heard. And they’ve had enough.

I applaud those in particular who have the strength to address what happened to them and still manage to take the high road. I work for one of Disney’s competitors and can guarantee you this behavior is everywhere. I’ve been subjected to homophobia and see women around me subjected to worse. Maybe I’m not the bigger person for expressing it like this, but I feel a sense of vindication and satisfaction at seeing those abusing their position of power falling from their thrones. It’s high time.

And there is no way back, this is only just beginning.


I get you there. I think I just rolled my eyes a bit when I saw remarks like "oooh, do you think they'll bring back 2D animation now?" along with some of the laughing/jubilation emojis, especially given that I think any feeling of satisfaction should come more from a stand point of thoughtful vindication and relief rather than schadenfreude or laughter. :roll: I also second blackcauldron85's comments on the poor spouses of all these sex pests (and their children for that matter). It must be hard for them - they will know that their loved one has done a really bad thing and probably feel obliged to hate them, but they're their husbands and fathers and so it's not like they can just stop loving them automatically.

Also sorry you've had to endure that kind of crap, and that you've witnessed friends and colleagues suffer too. :| I've mostly escaped the wrath of direct homophobia, but that comes from being relatively discreet (basically being reserved and choosing to establish friends with open-minded people) and, frankly, only coming out when I felt I was in a safe position to do so. Admittedly, though, I could still be more open and I know that I could also have been safe to have come out earlier, and in a way, that's still kind of frustrating. I know a lot of female and male friends who, while not experiencing things as serious as rape, have experienced a lot of unwanted behaviour from men, from patronising comments to unsolicited dirty remarks and touching, and they find the regular or semi-regular flow really disparaging. I suppose that even I've had some minor harassment in a way if you were to count obscene messages on dating sites/apps and a few creepy glances or thwarted advances gets annoying. I think the British comedienne/presenter Jo Brand summed up pretty well what the constant barrage of minor harassment feels like on a topical news show here in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/vid ... -you-video

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:47 pm 
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the more it gets exposed, the more its brought to light that this should not be tolerated just b/c its been allowed to go on for years, the better it will be for everyone everywhere... this is commonplace in small companies and businesses as well and it will help those who work there and deal with the same abuse too.

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Many celebrities are being exposed right now, and there will be many more to come, including some people that you may actually be fans of. Justice for the victims is ultimately what's important, not trivial fan wars.


Kevin Spacey, man that hit me hard, I was really into him a while back. My fear is that its so rampant and that as more popular celebs get exposed it will end up like shooting/gun violence issue were its become so commonplace that everyone starts getting numb about it and thinking, well maybe this is normal(for men,) maybe its just how our culture is and everything goes on as before. :|

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:22 pm 
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unprincess wrote:
Kevin Spacey, man that hit me hard, I was really into him a while back. My fear is that its so rampant and that as more popular celebs get exposed it will end up like shooting/gun violence issue were its become so commonplace that everyone starts getting numb about it and thinking, well maybe this is normal(for men,) maybe its just how our culture is and everything goes on as before. :|


What annoyed me about Kevin Spacey was the whole "by the way, I'm gay" approach he took to the first allegation (I think it was widely speculated he was gay anyway). An article on NewsThump (a British spoof news website) really sums up my feelings on the matter:

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Gay person, Nathan Connors, said, “I am a landscape gardener as well as being a ‘gay person’. My character doesn’t begin and end there you know.

“Anyway… This kind of sucks. I really like Kevin Spacey as an actor but declaring yourself as gay while also atoning for sexually assaulting a child is unhelpful, at best.

“I don’t know if he was trying to deflect, or what, but we’ve all got enough of the ridiculous stigma about gay men and children as it is without a newspaper story that a homophobe can point at and say ‘SEE??’.

https://newsthump.com/2017/10/30/by-the ... -everyone/

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:20 pm 
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I was asked yesterday if I'd heard about Lasseter. My first assumption was, "woah, did he die or something?" A quick search gave me the headlines. And unfortunately, in the wake of the whole Harvey Weinstein scandal it's really not surprising. Although I don't like jumping to conclusions, when I read the portion of his staff memo that referred to "unwanted hugs," it immediately seemed obvious that there had to be a lot more going on; unwanted, overly-long or excessive hugs, even subjectively creepy ones, don't warrant a six month leave.

Wonderlicious wrote:
I think I just rolled my eyes a bit when I saw remarks like "oooh, do you think they'll bring back 2D animation now?" along with some of the laughing/jubilation emojis, especially given that I think any feeling of satisfaction should come more from a stand point of thoughtful vindication and relief rather than schadenfreude or laughter. :roll:

That was my initial reaction coming into this thread. :| And look, I'm admittedly not all that big on the studio politics. I've liked the guy in the past but never assumed he was a saint, and have had the overall impression that he's the go-to whipping boy whenever the fans dislike any little decision the company makes. Hearing this news casts a nasty new light on not only him, but the company that allowed this to happen for years (especially given that his behavior seems to be common knowledge throughout the industry, coupled with the fact that they've paid off at least one victim). I can't exactly say I'm jumping for joy at the news of the apparently hundreds of women being victimized throughout the years, so some of the reactions here have been a little disconcerting.

Speaking as a victim of sexual harassment by a powerful and well-respected figure from my younger days, I get it. It's demeaning, it's dehumanizing, it's nasty. It's good news to hear that he's been outed and the situation is being addressed. I also completely understand the fear of his victims coming forward. People, especially coworkers that carry the very real fear of losing their livelihood, are quick to shrug it off or look away when things get uncomfortable. The victims themselves often know their complaints won't likely be taken seriously or are made to feel that "it's just the way things are," and believe they either need to put up with it or find employment elsewhere. The animation industry is such a tight-knit community, and Pixar is likely the top dream-job of anyone pursuing a career within it. I can't even begin to imagine working so hard and finally making it there, only to find out that the big, famous, highly-prestigious boss is expecting to kiss you on the lips and cop a feel. What happens if you complain about someone who's so powerful he could literally feed you the line "you'll never work in this town again" and mean every word of it?

Power corrupts. The longer someone gets away with bad behavior, the more they'll keep pushing at it, and the more likely everyone around will accept it as "normal." Personally, I get the impression he uses his hands/mouth to mark his territory, so to speak. Disgusting. I also get the impression from the statement in his memo that he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Is he really delusional enough to think the portions he conveniently kept out are perfectly normal or acceptable? I also agree with blackcauldron85, it's gotta be hard on his family. You have to wonder if his wife ever confronted him, turned a blind eye, or was completely oblivious, and how it's going to affect his kids.

While the world is currently focused on Hollywood (and rightly so), it's worth noting that this is an issue that plagues virtually every job position, every community, and touches the lives of every family in one form or another. So in a creepy way, we have Weinstein to thank for bringing things to head so we can finally see some widespread reform. So many victims can come out of the woodwork finally knowing that their words will be taken seriously.

I'd wager on whether or not Lasseter returns when the six months is up will ride on the general public's opinion of him upon further news of any upcoming investigations. His image is so deeply intertwined with Disney/Pixar and I don't believe the company will see any benefit from continuing to associate with him. He's what, 60 now? My dad retired younger than that. They have plenty of talented people; let someone else take over and make the company stronger for getting out of this mess.

Sigh. Too bad this didn't happen 20+ years ago.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:50 pm 
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PatrickvD wrote:
I think a lot of the jubilant responses are from people who’ve been complaining for years about Lasseter’s boys club mentality/workplace culture, where women and minorities are second class, and are not surprised one bit by these revelations. Obviously our hearts and sympathy are with people who’ve been victimized.

Exactly. Some people think we just criticized Lasseter because he made movies we didn't like or because he abandoned 2D animation. It was all the lies and the deceit, the exploitation of workers (the suppression of efforts to unionize Pixar, the wage-fixing scandal), the authoritarian rule and the exile of dissident voices, the firing of veterans in the industry (particularly the whole debacle with Brenda Chapman where even a lot of members here sided with him and made disparaging comments about Brenda), the racist and sexist hiring practices (tokenism, lack of high-level positions), the forging of a cult-like atmosphere around him with the constant praise by the media and fans to the point of idolization, the lack of diversity both in the workplace and in their creative output, etc. Obviously, we didn't know about the sexual harassment and assault and naturally we're horrified and saddened about what happened to the victims (especially after reading the morbid details) but all of those issues were interconnected, resulting in a toxic culture that allowed for the sexual abuse to take place; a culture that many not only refused to acknowledge but even attacked and mocked us for pointing it out. So, if we're expressing jubilation that he's been exposed, it's not out of a childish sense of schadenfreude; it's because people can finally learn the truth about him and see him for the person he really is and hopefully stay vigilant and critical when a figure like this emerges in the future.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:10 pm 
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I agree, Sotiris. I had thought of responding myself, but I thought you would most likely do a better job than I would.

And, since it has been brought up, I don't expect Lasseter being pushed out means hand-drawn animation has a higher chance of returning anyway. It's dead at Disney and has been for quite a while. I can't say I enjoy this per se, but I don't mind saying I'm glad to see this one power-hungry man go down after all the things he's been involved in over the years. He didn't mind destroying others, pushing them out, or humiliating them.

Eventually we'll all get our just desserts.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:35 pm 
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It was all the lies and the deceit, the exploitation of workers (the suppression of efforts to unionize Pixar, the wage-fixing scandal),


this, this is what made me completely change my mind about him. I wasn't happy about the hand drawn situation and thought he could have pushed for it a bit more but ultimately didn't put much blame on him b/c he had to answer to people in higher positions than him towards that decision, but the way he and the other guys higher up the chain screwed over the lower employees, and then got other studios to join them in screwing them over too, just no, that's just vile.


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What annoyed me about Kevin Spacey was the whole "by the way, I'm gay" approach he took to the first allegation (I think it was widely speculated he was gay anyway).


yeah it was really shitty of him to do that. And Ive been reading of speculation he was gay since the late 90's so yeah its not like he was gonna suddenly shock anybody in hopes they'd forget about the other thing. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:10 am 
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I actually thought Lasseter was gay but now I guess he obviously isn't. It must have been really awful for all those female employees, and those of certain color and sexual orientation (?) to feel so devalued and like they couldn't be all they were because of him.

Off topic but for the Kevin Spacey thing, if he knew he had to come out sometime, when could he have come out and had people not connect it to the Anthony Rapp thing? How long should he have waited for people to not go "oh, he said that because of what he did to Anthony Rapp?"

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:52 am 
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unprincess wrote:
The way he and the other guys higher up the chain screwed over the lower employees, and then got other studios to join them in screwing them over too, just no, that's just vile.

The wage-suppression efforts in particular were inextricably linked to the culture of sexual abuse at the studio. What some may not know, the conspiracy Catmull orchestrated and Lasseter approved did not solely involve an anti-poaching agreement. It included blacklisting as well. This meant that if you were fired or wanted, for whatever reason, to leave Pixar none of the studios under this pact would hire you (which at one point were all of them). This would make you think twice about leaving or speaking up and more inclined to tolerate certain kinds of behavior. Lasseter knew that and took full advantage of it. Financial and sexual disempowerment go hand in hand.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:41 pm 
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I... I really don't know what to make of this. Especially since he helped churn out some of the best Disney movies in years (i.e.: The Princess and the Frog, Wreck-It Ralph, Frozen, Zootopia, etc.) :(


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:28 pm 
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Power corrupts. The longer someone gets away with bad behavior, the more they'll keep pushing at it, and the more likely everyone around will accept it as "normal." Personally, I get the impression he uses his hands/mouth to mark his territory, so to speak. Disgusting. I also get the impression from the statement in his memo that he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. Is he really delusional enough to think the portions he conveniently kept out are perfectly normal or acceptable? I also agree with blackcauldron85, it's gotta be hard on his family. You have to wonder if his wife ever confronted him, turned a blind eye, or was completely oblivious, and how it's going to affect his kids.

.


This makes me think of that scene from The Dark Knight, where Harvey Dent states you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I think that scene can be applied to this situation that's going on. I honestly, liked John Lassetter, he's done amazing things for Disney, but this isn't acceptable. To be honest, I think John Lassetter isn't coming back. This is just a way from him to leave Disney with some sort of dignity, and five months in he's gonna resign.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Lady Cluck wrote:
I have to say I do think it's in poor taste to find personal enjoyment in this right now though. Almost all of us want 2D animation to be brought back, at least to some degree, but that isn't necessarily happening just because of this.


I have to agree. The only way handdrawn animation to be relevant again at Disney isn't if they themselves decide to invest in it, but if someone else finds success in it, to the point that they'll want to get in on it, too. That will have to be up to the other indie studios that we have doing efforts like Hullabaloo, Klaus, etc., heck, maybe even Netflix. But I don't believe 2D animation will never be back at Disney someday. It'll happen, it's just a matter of circumstances. However unlikely and impossible it may seem, there are others who won't give up on it, not just fans, but those who are fighting for it as well.

Anyway, on topic: I respect Lasseter for his accomplishments and I still do. He started an enterprise of quality CG animation and memorable characters in the Toy Story movies, and of course Pixar's output. They're one of the few CG animated studios I can tolerate. With few exceptions, just about every other CG animated film out there is just unbearable to me. He also was instrumental in getting the rest of the Studio Ghibli catalog distributed in the U.S. by Disney at a time when the Mouse House was reconsidering retracting its deal with the Japanese studio. If it weren't for him Miyazaki wouldn't have gotten an Academy Award or widely recognized.

But it is unfortunate to learn that the man also has some serious personality flaws as well. Advancing on people who don't want to be advanced upon, his micromanaging style, lack of respect to people of color and women. Sadly, a lot of geniuses were flawed people, too. The Great Masters of music, Steve Jobs, heck, I'll bet even Walt Disney himself. That said, I've never known this about Lasseter until now. Mistreating women and people of different color is absolutely objectionable and I won't stand for it. And unfortunate that it has to be from someone who did a lot of good for Disney.

I think him stepping down might actually do him some good to reflect on his behavior and that his replacement should try to be more respectful of other women and less controlling.

So here's where I stand. I'll always respect Lasseter for what he has done, but I don't like hearing about this part of him. It really is shocking.


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