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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:22 am 
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Oh, so you have the playbook of the musical but didn't see it. Why do you have the playbook?

It seems Disney having Peter wear green leaves (or something that resembles it) now makes sense if the play had that. Are skeleton leaves only made, they aren't found in nature? Interesting Peter could find those, too, if they have to be made.

I'm glad you like the ending to Disney's Peter Pan. It wasn't a dream, rather clearly to me. Alice having a dream makes sense to me though I thought the book said it wasn't a dream. I am ok with The Wizard of Oz making it a dream. The movie is it's own thing and it's good. When I read Peter Pan, then I'll know if Wendy and Peter are a good match. I need to see that 2003 film. Disney's remakes are all kinda just ok. I know I'm biased but I think only Cinderella is really good. But The Jungle Book was pretty good. I guess I just prefer the original's ending so much, even though it doesn't follow the book. I hope they don't f*** up Snow White and The Little Mermaid.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Oh, so you have the playbook of the musical but didn't see it. Why do you have the playbook?

It seems Disney having Peter wear green leaves (or something that resembles it) now makes sense if the play had that. Are skeleton leaves only made, they aren't found in nature? Interesting Peter could find those, too, if they have to be made.

I'm glad you like the ending to Disney's Peter Pan. It wasn't a dream, rather clearly to me. Alice having a dream makes sense to me though I thought the book said it wasn't a dream. I am ok with The Wizard of Oz making it a dream. The movie is it's own thing and it's good. When I read Peter Pan, then I'll know if Wendy and Peter are a good match. I need to see that 2003 film. Disney's remakes are all kinda just ok. I know I'm biased but I think only Cinderella is really good. But The Jungle Book was pretty good. I guess I just prefer the original's ending so much, even though it doesn't follow the book. I hope they don't f*** up Snow White and The Little Mermaid.

When I went to watch The Lion King at Broadway, they had this out too. At the ticket stand where they have lots of playbooks in a section and you can pick some up.

I think skeleton leaves are only created artificially and not found in nature, but it's not something I'm really familiar with. It seemed like a Victorian pastime though.

Actually, it's very much a dream in the Alice book. Both books make that very clear if you get to the end.

I tend to rate films by source material, which obviously doesn't always work well with Disney most of the time considering how much they change lol. When I saw the live-action Jungle Book, I still hadn't read the original book at the time. I did read the book recently and I realized that the movie is very faithful to it which I liked. I don't know if Bill Peet's original Jungle Book treatment for Disney resembled what the live-action film looks like, but it was supposed to be more like the book. And as such, the live-action film seems like what the animated film would have been like had it been more faithful to the book. It does a great job of keeping the classic Disney elements that made the story even more iconic and blending them with the original source material, and I think Cinderella succeeded in that too. The ending of The Jungle Book's animated film wasn't in the book either so the change didn't bother me that much. He goes go back to the village, and not because of some girl, but basically keeps running back and forth between the village and the jungle. I haven't read the sequel yet, and I don't remember the story now but I think it has more tales of Mowgli in the jungle after he runs away. The film doesn't have Mowgli enter the jungle because I think they were already planning for a sequel then.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:04 am 
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Oh, so by playbook do you mean the one with pictures of the show or the playbill with just the who's who in the cast?

I read both Alice books and I when I read the end of Charles Santore's book out of curiosity I thought it sounded like she really went to Wonderland and could visit it again.

It's cool the live-action Jungle Book was able to be faithful to the book and yet keep Disney's best things and still be a relatively good movie. I'm glad to know he does go to the village sometime in the book because I like that he does that in the original animated film. I wonder if they're still going to do a sequel. How did you think the live-action Cinderella put in more from the original story? How Cinderella got her name, and the lizards?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:29 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Oh, so by playbook do you mean the one with pictures of the show or the playbill with just the who's who in the cast?

I read both Alice books and I when I read the end of Charles Santore's book out of curiosity I thought it sounded like she really went to Wonderland and could visit it again.

It's cool the live-action Jungle Book was able to be faithful to the book and yet keep Disney's best things and still be a relatively good movie. I'm glad to know he does go to the village sometime in the book because I like that he does that in the original animated film. I wonder if they're still going to do a sequel. How did you think the live-action Cinderella put in more from the original story? How Cinderella got her name, and the lizards?

Oh oops, I meant to say playbill. I don't know why I said playbook over and over lol.

I haven't read the Charles Santore illustrated version yet, so since the text isn't the original, it's possible he interpreted it as being real. But in the first Alice book, she also wakes up from a nap and tells her sister/governess (I forgot if she is Alice's sister in the book or not) about her dream. It's the very last page or two. In the sequel, it's a plot point that it's a dream because she's shaking one of the Queens in her hands and in real life it turns out that she's shaking one of her kittens.

Mowgli doesn't enjoy the village very much in the book though so he constantly sneaks out. There's no Shanti in the book I suppose to give him an incentive to stay otherwise. However the original ending for the animated Jungle Book (it's on the Diamond edition) takes a lot from his time in the village in the first book. Mowgli angers a hunter named Buldeo who things Mowgli is making everything up about his adventures in the book, and he also considers him cursed for having lived in the jungle.

The Jungle Book sequel is planned right after The Lion King is complete.

Yeah, I meant how Cinderella takes the lizards for example and Ella's name, plus the part about her father being a merchant and Ella requesting the first branch that touches his shoulder, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:20 am 
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Oh my gosh Alice was shaking her kitten! How did I forget that! Poor kitten.

What happens in the original ending of the animated Jungle Book? I mean, as in, how does it end?

Oh great more Jungle Book after The Lion King when I'd rather see Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, and Snow White. And isn't there going to be another studio doing the Jungle Book with Cate Blanchett as Kaa?

Oh, yea I forgot about the branch in Cinderella. But I don't think either the Perrault or Grimm's version say her father is a merchant. The Grimm's says "a rich man" and he went to a fair, and Perrault's says, "a gentleman".

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Oh my gosh Alice was shaking her kitten! How did I forget that! Poor kitten.

What happens in the original ending of the animated Jungle Book? I mean, as in, how does it end?

Oh great more Jungle Book after The Lion King when I'd rather see Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, and Snow White. And isn't there going to be another studio doing the Jungle Book with Cate Blanchett as Kaa?

Oh, yea I forgot about the branch in Cinderella. But I don't think either the Perrault or Grimm's version say her father is a merchant. The Grimm's says "a rich man" and he went to a fair, and Perrault's says, "a gentleman".


I don't remember exactly but there is a man named Buldeo who hates Mowgli and blames he made up is adventures and/or is cursed from having lived in the jungle. He forces him at gunpoint to take him to the ruins of the Indian palaces in the jungle so he can collect gold. Shere Khan confronts them and is ultimately killed as is Buldeo.

Well, the Lion King director is the same as The Jungle Book, so he wasn't exactly going to suddenly switch to doing The Little Mermaid or Aladdin or Snow White. That doesn't mean Disney won't be working on those films since we know Aladdin is in the making and they also seem to be in preliminary works for The Little Mermaid. I haven't heard anything about Snow White though since its initial announcement. Yes, another studio is doing The Jungle Book as well. I think the date got delayed because of the Disney version although I thought it would be coming out this year.

For some reason I remember hearing merchant, but that might be me getting mixed up with the Ella Enchanted book and film since that is also an adaptation of Cinderella.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:30 am 
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Thanks for the info! I didn't know The Lion King had the same director as The Jungle Book. Maybe then it will be good. I read Ella Enchanted and saw the movie, but a long time ago and I don't even remember that much from the book.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:40 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Thanks for the info! I didn't know The Lion King had the same director as The Jungle Book. Maybe then it will be good. I read Ella Enchanted and saw the movie, but a long time ago and I don't even remember that much from the book.

When The Jungle Book was a huge hit, Disney announced he would be making The Lion King and The Jungle Book 2 would be right after. He's really churning hit after hit it seems.

Ella Enchanted, the book, is very much an adaptation of Cinderella but with a twist. The movie is completely different from the book though. I'd say it's about as similar to the book as Tangled is from Rapunzel. Not nearly as drastic as Frozen though since I see no similarities whatsoever between Frozen and The Snow Queen, except that both have a reindeer in it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:12 am 
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Well you know, a reindeer, a queen who has ice powers, a girl going to the ice palace to save someone she loves, and true love breaking the spell.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Disney Duster wrote:
Well you know, a reindeer, a queen who has ice powers, a girl going to the ice palace to save someone she loves, and true love breaking the spell.

A reindeer is the only connection I see. In the fairy tale, she's called the Snow Queen for a reason. Her powers mainly manifested in the form of snow bees which she ruled over (basically a flurry of snowflakes) and she has an ethereal form that almost resembles swirls of snow or mist in how she travels. Elsa's powers are more ice based except for making a snowman and she doesn't show any of the other abilities. Not to mention, the Snow Queen may not even be human but an entity or force of nature or even personification of winter. A girl going to the ice palace I also don't see a connection too, because their paths are entirely different. Gerda goes through seasonal obstacles and her journey takes a year which she mostly undergoes alone except for brief help from certain people during each "season." Anna has a very short journey which she isn't able to do at all if not for Kristoff who does most of the heavy work. Finally, true love breaking the spell is a very common motif in fairy tales, mainly Disney fairy tales, and once more, it's done in a completely different way. At least Tangled kept the healing tears, while Frozen couldn't even keep the mirror shards. And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:42 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.

I’m pretty sure they don't have to "pretend." Who would care honestly?? Disney has changed most of their films significantly from the source material. I doubt they were worried about a backlash of some kind and made this up to stop it. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:26 am 
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Oh. Well I still think it's pretty similar to the Snow Queen in the ways I said. It's ok if we disagree.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:28 pm 
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At least Tangled kept the healing tears, while Frozen couldn't even keep the mirror shards. And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.


really? I thought this was just a fan theory that was made popular on tumblr(which is where I had read about it.) The filmmakers actually confirmed it?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.

I’m pretty sure they don't have to "pretend." Who would care honestly?? Disney has changed most of their films significantly from the source material. I doubt they were worried about a backlash of some kind and made this up to stop it. :lol:

I was saying that in jest lol. I actually really like Frozen and it was my favorite Disney film since Enchanted and Toy Story 3 (I hadn't seen Wreck-It Ralph then). However, I'm not about to pretend that the film has any resemblance to the original story. Even Jungle Book has a lot in common with the book despite contrary belief, and same with Pinocchio. Frozen has nothing recognizable from The Snow Queen imo.

unprincess wrote:
Quote:
At least Tangled kept the healing tears, while Frozen couldn't even keep the mirror shards. And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.


really? I thought this was just a fan theory that was made popular on tumblr(which is where I had read about it.) The filmmakers actually confirmed it?

Yes, if you use the find button to search for mirror in this interview, you'll find what Jennifer Lee said.
https://johnaugust.com/2014/scriptnotes ... transcript


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:05 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
I was saying that in jest lol. I actually really like Frozen and it was my favorite Disney film since Enchanted and Toy Story 3 (I hadn't seen Wreck-It Ralph then). However, I'm not about to pretend that the film has any resemblance to the original story. Even Jungle Book has a lot in common with the book despite contrary belief, and same with Pinocchio. Frozen has nothing recognizable from The Snow Queen imo.

Well, I'm not going pretend I agree with any of that either, but my point was about the fact that they had no motivation to lie about the Hans-mirror connection considering the property was successful regardless.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 am 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
I was saying that in jest lol. I actually really like Frozen and it was my favorite Disney film since Enchanted and Toy Story 3 (I hadn't seen Wreck-It Ralph then). However, I'm not about to pretend that the film has any resemblance to the original story. Even Jungle Book has a lot in common with the book despite contrary belief, and same with Pinocchio. Frozen has nothing recognizable from The Snow Queen imo.

Well, I'm not going pretend I agree with any of that either, but my point was about the fact that they had no motivation to lie about the Hans-mirror connection considering the property was successful regardless.

Well, considering that they promote the film as The Snow Queen in some foreign countries, they certainly have to keep up the charade that Frozen is still somewhat linked to the fairy tale. I'm actually glad the film has nothing to do with it, because it can stand on its own then unlike Tangled. Another reason I'm so elated that Gigantic has been completely cancelled. If Disney can't even get the name of a fairy tale right, they have no business trying to make it into a movie. This, as well as their annoying habit of wanting to delete songs that represent the emotional core of a film like they almost did with Part of Your World and actually did do with If I Never Knew You. It always shocks me how many times I hear people say they think that If I Never Knew You changes their complete perception of Pocahontas and fills in a gap that they previously felt really hurt the movie. I'm not saying Pocahontas would have been a blockbuster hit with that song in, but I think the film would have done much better. Critical reception and word of mouth would have been better for sure and the latter especially leads to more tickets sold.

And frankly, it's not that difficult to figure out that The Jungle Book and Pinocchio's Disney adaptations are far more similar to the books they are based on compared to Frozen and The Snow Queen. The name alone should be an indicator if nothing else, not that everything can be based on a name these days, but it should set off warning bells. The new Peter Rabbit trailer, for example, probably should change the name of the film since it's a horrible disservice to the books.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Shouldn't we get word for the next one by now?
We knew about Pinocchio by this time one year ago. What's going on?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:04 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:

unprincess wrote:
Quote:
At least Tangled kept the healing tears, while Frozen couldn't even keep the mirror shards. And then the filmmakers have the gall to pretend that all along Hans was the film's version of the mirror, just so they can pretend that their film actually resembles the original source material.


really? I thought this was just a fan theory that was made popular on tumblr(which is where I had read about it.) The filmmakers actually confirmed it?

Yes, if you use the find button to search for mirror in this interview, you'll find what Jennifer Lee said.
https://johnaugust.com/2014/scriptnotes ... transcript


thanks for posting that, whole thing was interesting to read. Kinda funny that Jen Lee describes herself as "sociopathic" too, heh. Obviously in a joking manner, but still...Id love to know how she feels about the fact that some fans want Hans redeemed.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:34 am 
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I don't want to have to read the whole transcript with Lee. Can someone quote exactly what she says about Hans as the mirror? Whatever someone does for me, I found this which has to do with Hans as the mirror:

Is Hans a Mirror?

But the video does get it wrong that Hans' smile after meeting Anna makes no sense unless he's mirroring her. His plan for becoming king was just set in motion, of course he'll smile about it!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:01 am 
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Disney Duster wrote:
I don't want to have to read the whole transcript with Lee. Can someone quote exactly what she says about Hans as the mirror? Whatever someone does for me, I found this which has to do with Hans as the mirror:

Is Hans a Mirror?

But the video does get it wrong that Hans' smile after meeting Anna makes no sense unless he's mirroring her. His plan for becoming king was just set in motion, of course he'll smile about it!

You can just use the find/search button like I suggested above but maybe you're viewing it on a browser without that so here.

"He’s very talented. He’s charming. He mirrors everyone. And actually the original story had a lot to do with mirrors. And in many iterations of the story we talk about mirrors and we bring them up. And so I held on a little to that, what Hans is is a mirror as a lot of charming, but hallow or sociopathic."


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