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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:59 pm 
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(If anyone has a better title for this thread, please let me know & I'll change it!! :) )

I had this thought while driving yesterday, jamming out to Disney songs. We know that The Jungle Book, Beauty and the Beast, and The Emperor's New Groove would have been very different movies if their original directors had stayed on board.

Are there any other examples of Disney animated films that have had director changes and huge story changes? Or how about any speculation among forum members??


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:04 pm 
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I love Oliver and Company so I always wondered what Lion King would have been like if George Scribner had stayed as director. I have a feeling the more mythological/spiritual elements would have been less prominent in his version.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Glen Keane's version of Tangled was either going to be a comedy with two modern teens becoming Rapunzel and her prince, or a darker, gothic version of the movie we got. The comedic version sounded like a hilarious (but gorgeous) disaster, although a good writer could have made it work like they did in Enchanted. The problem is that they would have wasted the story of Rapunzel on it. At least Enchanted wrote its own fairy tale. I still would have liked to see how Keane would have directed a more straightforward version of Rapunzel, which it sounded like he was planning on doing until he had to pull out of the production. His step down is also probably why the CGI wasn't pushed to be competely painterly like in early animation tests.

I actually really would like to raid the Disney Studios archives to find a finished version of that Rapunzel Unbraided previz just because my curiousity about that version of the film is just killing me. I'm sure it'll be awful, but I still want to watch it. Plus, aside from Glen Keane's direction, Kristen Chenoweth plays Rapunzel as a squirrel. That sounds worth my while.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Chris Sanders' American Dog became Chris William's Bolt. When the "Art of" book came out, all evidence of the former film was erased.

Allegedly, Ron Clements and John Musker were to have made their directorial debuts on The Black Cauldron, in accordance to that film's conception as the premiere for the animators replacing the Nine Old Men. A seniority grab gave the job to Ted Berman, Richard RIch, and an uncredited Art Stevens, all of whom directed The Fox and the Hound.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:49 pm 
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Tangled wrote:
Glen Keane's version of Tangled was either going to be a comedy with two modern teens becoming Rapunzel and her prince, or a darker, gothic version of the movie we got. The comedic version sounded like a hilarious (but gorgeous) disaster, although a good writer could have made it work like they did in Enchanted. The problem is that they would have wasted the story of Rapunzel on it. At least Enchanted wrote its own fairy tale. I still would have liked to see how Keane would have directed a more straightforward version of Rapunzel, which it sounded like he was planning on doing until he had to pull out of the production. His step down is also probably why the CGI wasn't pushed to be competely painterly like in early animation tests.

I actually really would like to raid the Disney Studios archives to find a finished version of that Rapunzel Unbraided previz just because my curiousity about that version of the film is just killing me. I'm sure it'll be awful, but I still want to watch it. Plus, aside from Glen Keane's direction, Kristen Chenoweth plays Rapunzel as a squirrel. That sounds worth my while.


I had no interest in Rapunzel Unbraided (especially since it was coming right after Enchanted) but the darker Glen Keane version of Rapunzel was meant to be a tribute to the 40s and 50s of Disney animation. It really sounded beautiful, and although I'm not sure if it would have been as commercially successful as Tangled, I think it would have been a critical hit and far more worthy of being the 50th Disney Animated Feature compared to what we got. I've stockpiled a lot of information on that version including characters, plot, etc. so if anyone is interested, I can post more here.

Semaj wrote:
Allegedly, Ron Clements and John Musker were to have made their directorial debuts on The Black Cauldron, in accordance to that film's conception as the premiere for the animators replacing the Nine Old Men. A seniority grab gave the job to Ted Berman, Richard RIch, and an uncredited Art Stevens, all of whom directed The Fox and the Hound.


If that is true, I wonder if the Black Cauldron would have been a much better film or not. If it had still failed, perhaps Clements and Musker would never have been given the chance to direct some of the films we love so much now.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:17 pm 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
but the darker Glen Keane version of Rapunzel was meant to be a tribute to the 40s and 50s of Disney animation. It really sounded beautiful, and although I'm not sure if it would have been as commercially successful as Tangled, I think it would have been a critical hit and far more worthy of being the 50th Disney Animated Feature compared to what we got. I've stockpiled a lot of information on that version including characters, plot, etc. so if anyone is interested, I can post more here.


If you don't mind posting about, I, for one, would love to read it!

(I know that my external hard drive has a bunch of unproduced/changed-during-production "stuff" from lots of movies, but it's been years and I haven't done much with it...maybe someday I'll search through it and if there are any cool goodies, I could post them here.)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:23 pm 
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blackcauldron85 wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
but the darker Glen Keane version of Rapunzel was meant to be a tribute to the 40s and 50s of Disney animation. It really sounded beautiful, and although I'm not sure if it would have been as commercially successful as Tangled, I think it would have been a critical hit and far more worthy of being the 50th Disney Animated Feature compared to what we got. I've stockpiled a lot of information on that version including characters, plot, etc. so if anyone is interested, I can post more here.


If you don't mind posting about, I, for one, would love to read it!

(I know that my external hard drive has a bunch of unproduced/changed-during-production "stuff" from lots of movies, but it's been years and I haven't done much with it...maybe someday I'll search through it and if there are any cool goodies, I could post them here.)

Oh definitely.

Glean Keane and Dean Wellins were both directing partners on Rapunzel. Keane's version of Rapunzel was a darker tale than what we got, but generally more accurate to the original tale. It was meant to be a throwback to the 40s and 50s films (ex. Snow White, Pinocchio, Cinderella, etc.) but with a lot more character development. The film wouldn't have been a traditional broadway musical, but there would have been songs in the vein of the aforementioned movies. His motto for the film was "plus est en vous" which translates to "there is more than you." This would have been a huge theme for the movie in regards to the characters. Mother Gothel, for example, was far less theatrical and comedic in this version. She wasn't nearly as passive aggressive to Rapunzel either, so from the outside looking in, anyone would think Gothel is actually a good and caring mother. Her design also reflected this because it was more toned down from her Tangled design. Most Disney Villains can be identified as villains from the second you see them, just because of their designs, but Gothel was different. The audience would be led to believe she is a good mother until you realized just how monstrous she is inside. Gothel would die, although after Rapunzel and Bastion (and Beau, the animal sidekick) would leave the tower, concept art shows them being followed by these sinister magical trees. Not sure if they were connected to Gothel, or if she would even be dead by that point.

This would be juxtaposed by Bastion who was the prince/Flynn Rider figure. Bastion would be very tall and heavyset to differentiate him from the other princes, but he would be a real softy on the inside, despite appearing intimidating. He was also a thief in this version, but a far more sympathetic one. He hates what he does, but he has nothing else to get by on, forcing him to remain a thief. This is different enough from Aladdin, who doesn't really have moral issues with being a thief, he just doesn't like being a street rat. Concept art also shows his origin. It appears as though he was orphaned as a young boy and found himself in the dank and dirty streets of the kingdom, leading to him becoming a thief.

There was a much larger supporting cast as well. Disney gets lots of complaints for whitewashing their films and completely eradicating any people of color from western European countries (ex. Brave, Frozen), but Rapunzel actually had Xavier, a black man who would have been one of Bastion's only allies. Bastion would also have a pet basset hound named Beau (he actually came from Rapunzel Unbraided). Rapunzel had no animal sidekicks to show just how alone she really is. Gothel was Rapunzel's foe, but Bastion had one as well. His name was Griffol, and he seemed to be an aristocratic type of figure. I'm not too sure how he would relate to the film, but my suspicions are that he was somehow connected to the king, while also in league with the treacherous thieves Bastion would be forced to associate with. There were two other thieve types of characters, who from first glance, are obviously villains or the sidekicks of the villains (in this case Griffol). One was named Crowley (skinny, hooked nose, bald) and the other had no name given (short and stout. Like a Peter Pettigrew from Harry Potter). I think Griffol was in league with these thieves for his own personal gain (maybe plundering from the kingdom to add to his own wealth? Perhaps he was planning something against the king?) I'm guessing that since Rapunzel doesn't leave the tower until near the end, she must have discovered her identity as the lost princess beforehand (the catalyst for her leaving the tower), meaning only Bastion could have told her, so my guesses on how he learned it link him to Griffol since he was likely linked with the king. I could be very wrong though. The King and Queen also had much harsher designs. They are clad in Roman warrior types of clothing, so that makes me think, that after their daughter's kidnapping, the King and Queen become more hardened and perhaps more warlike. Sort of like how in Barbie of Rapunzel, Rapunzel's father declares war on the neighboring kingdom, because he believes they stole his daughter. Maybe Griffol benefited from the King and Queen's grieved states, I'm not sure.

Her tower, which would have been a much darker design, both inside and out, was full of some truly creeping paintings which Bastion would react to. Most of them would involve monsters chasing a little girl who would be running to her mother for safety, obviously thanks to Gothel's brainwashing. This version of Rapunzel was not eager to leave the tower at all because Gothel had indoctrinated into her a fear of the outside world. Hence, why when Bastion first climbs into the tower, Rapunzel confronts him with a crossbow (rather than that silly frying pan, which feminists decried as keeping her in the kitchen). I think Bastion would slowly ease her into wanting to leave the tower and go to the outside world, because for much of the film she would be reluctant, first out of fear, and then out of guilt to her mother. Gothel would slowly notice signs though, such as Rapunzel humming a tune she wouldn't have known otherwise, as well as keeping a diary/journal. I think her paintings would also start to change and be more receptive to the outside world.

Painting was a bigger deal in this film since Rapunzel wouldn't leave the tower until about 2/3s or 3/4s of the movie in. Actually, this was an issue in production, because Lasseter praised the film's opening as one of the best he had ever seen. The first half was said by all to be just incredible, but it was the second half that was struggling because Rapunzel remains stuck in her tower. This is why when the new team of Nathan and Byron came along, they had Rapunzel leave the tower early on, since the film was losing steam by then. I think Lasseter feared that audiences would be bored to just see Rapunzel and Bastion in the tower for so long and felt there needed to be more action (hence, Tangled's pub scene and onwards). Anyway one scene shows Rapunzel painting on Bastion's hand in the tower. Another scene, when they first meet, would have Rapunzel being fascinated with Bastion's stubble (having never met a man before).

Concept art shows that Keane's version also had the flower (and probably originated it). Rapunzel had the green dress that most people seem to prefer her in (not including small children who are probably attracted to the glittery pink and purple). The film in general seemed darker and grittier, since the art style was based off of Rembrandt paintings (some Fragonard, but that was mostly Rapunzel Unbraided and then Tangled. Hence the buttery, bright look. Some concept art of the kingdom still looks like this). Everything, including the kingdom seems to follow this pattern, perhaps to reflect that the kingdom has lost its way with Rapunzel gone. Actually some of the concept art of the kingdom reminds me of Hunchback. The castle also looked more like a classical French castle rather than the more eastern Disney-esque palace we ended up getting. The castle was based off of the French Renaissance, and going by the paintings, and some of the names (Beau) it appeared as though Rapunzel was set in France, during the 1820s/Regency Era. Gothel has the Victorian governess look, Rapunzel sometimes was seen wearing finger-less gloves, the Queen had empire-waistline dresses, etc (Tangled btw is set in the 1780s so a little bit earlier). Although the original story is German, apparently this version had influences from the French version of Rapunzel called "Persinette" so it wouldn't be too out there to change the setting. Gothel could still be German, hence why Rapunzel is named Rapunzel (german for the rampion plant, which is what the magical flower is). Rapunzel's hair would always remain blonde in this version and her hair would regrow by the end for the wedding. There's even concept art of her final dress (before the wedding) sticking with the green and gold color scheme with the more contemporary (compared to her main/peasant dress) empire waist.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:19 pm 
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Some more concept art pictures. You can see Bastion's youth, and the origin of the flower. Also more pictures of the kingdom; the French flair is definitely apparent.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:58 pm 
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That version of Gothel, and Gothel/Rapunzel's relationship, sounds so much more satisfying than in the film. The subtle brainwashing (such as the paintings, Gothel's appearance, etc.) is what I was hoping I'd find in the movie, rather than the obviously-looking villain screaming about how life is scary outstide 'cause rhinos. I'd have liked Rapunzel without any sidekicks, too, but that's always a ledge too far for Disney apparently (the same thing happened in Hunchback, where Quasi was originally not supposed to have sidekicks). Also, I'm surprised they didn't keep the idea of Rapunzel's blonde hair growing back somehow. I've always liked the earlier Bastion, too.

And anything that would've spared us that hideous dress she wears would've been great.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:13 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
That version of Gothel, and Gothel/Rapunzel's relationship, sounds so much more satisfying than in the film. The subtle brainwashing (such as the paintings, Gothel's appearance, etc.) is what I was hoping I'd find in the movie, rather than the obviously-looking villain screaming about how life is scary outstide 'cause rhinos. I'd have liked Rapunzel without any sidekicks, too, but that's always a ledge too far for Disney apparently (the same thing happened in Hunchback, where Quasi was originally not supposed to have sidekicks). Also, I'm surprised they didn't keep the idea of Rapunzel's blonde hair growing back somehow. I've always liked the earlier Bastion, too.

And anything that would've spared us that hideous dress she wears would've been great.


Hey, I like Pascal, at least he doesn't talk. Not to mention Maximus was a great horse character. I actually think making Gothel more comedic makes her more scary when she gets serious because her more lighthearted side is used to help keep up the facade of her being a good mother.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:35 pm 
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jazzflower92 wrote:
Disney's Divinity wrote:
That version of Gothel, and Gothel/Rapunzel's relationship, sounds so much more satisfying than in the film. The subtle brainwashing (such as the paintings, Gothel's appearance, etc.) is what I was hoping I'd find in the movie, rather than the obviously-looking villain screaming about how life is scary outstide 'cause rhinos. I'd have liked Rapunzel without any sidekicks, too, but that's always a ledge too far for Disney apparently (the same thing happened in Hunchback, where Quasi was originally not supposed to have sidekicks). Also, I'm surprised they didn't keep the idea of Rapunzel's blonde hair growing back somehow. I've always liked the earlier Bastion, too.

And anything that would've spared us that hideous dress she wears would've been great.


Hey, I like Pascal, at least he doesn't talk. Not to mention Maximus was a great horse character. I actually think making Gothel more comedic makes her more scary when she gets serious because her more lighthearted side is used to help keep up the facade of her being a good mother.


Flynn was too Dreamworksy for my taste. Bastion seemed more like a Disney character while still remaining unique and different for a Disney leading male, but in a good way. Disney tried to replicate him with Kristoff, but I don't think it worked nearly as well, because we don't get to see as much of Kristoff. Bastion seemed like he would have been more pivotal to the film which I found funny, considering how Disney desperately needed a male lead at that time.

In Tangled, Rapunzel is depicted as way too perfect for my taste. She never messes up and even when she goes out into the real world (where she should be a total fish out of water) she adjusts far too well to be believable. Like how well she gets along with the thugs and how she suddenly knows how to swim. I know Disney isn't known for realism, but all the other heroines have a plausibility about them which Rapunzel imo does not possess.

Gothel had potential in Tangled, but her relationship with Rapunzel was never fleshed out well enough, nor was Gothel herself. Her design was also a little too on-nose for me.

Even without talking, I still found Pascal incredibly annoying. Most usually in his interactions with Flynn. Maximus wasn't anything special imo. There are better horse characters out there and his first meeting with Rapunzel was a bit too contrived for me.

Interestingly enough, even in Tangled, Rapunzel wasn't supposed to have a sidekick. Pascal was shoed in near the end of development, because someone (I forgot who) felt that she needed to have a sidekick otherwise everyone would think she was crazy for talking to herself.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:41 am 
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JeanGreyForever wrote:
Interestingly enough, even in Tangled, Rapunzel wasn't supposed to have a sidekick. Pascal was shoed in near the end of development, because someone (I forgot who) felt that she needed to have a sidekick otherwise everyone would think she was crazy for talking to herself.

That was the same reason for Quasi getting sidekicks. How dare a character come across a little crazy when that's the whole point! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:16 am 
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JeanGreyForever, thank you x 100!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

I very much like Pascal, and I like that Rapunzel has a friend...she's a sweet girl, she deserves one person...erhm, creature... to understand her. (I feel the same about Quasi...at least he had the birds?? Some self-satisfaction at helping them?) I wonder if time was a factor in Tangled not exploring Flynn's background more than brief mentions by Flynn about it...or were the directors thinking that Rapunzel is a little more of the lead, so focus less on him??

Very beautiful artwork (did you post pics from "The Art of Tangled"? I bought that a year ago, and read it & flipped through it, but didn't realize that some of those were from that previous version.

I wonder...should Flynn had had an animal sidekick (not counting Maximus, since that wasn't his horse)...?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:24 am 
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Tangled wrote:
Glen Keane's version of Tangled was either going to be a comedy with two modern teens becoming Rapunzel and her prince, or a darker, gothic version of the movie we got. The comedic version sounded like a hilarious (but gorgeous) disaster, although a good writer could have made it work like they did in Enchanted. The problem is that they would have wasted the story of Rapunzel on it. At least Enchanted wrote its own fairy tale. I still would have liked to see how Keane would have directed a more straightforward version of Rapunzel, which it sounded like he was planning on doing until he had to pull out of the production. His step down is also probably why the CGI wasn't pushed to be competely painterly like in early animation tests.

I actually really would like to raid the Disney Studios archives to find a finished version of that Rapunzel Unbraided previz just because my curiousity about that version of the film is just killing me. I'm sure it'll be awful, but I still want to watch it. Plus, aside from Glen Keane's direction, Kristen Chenoweth plays Rapunzel as a squirrel. That sounds worth my while.

In Glen Keane's defense, the Rapunzel Unbraided concept with her turning into a squirrel was forced on him by the executives at the time. I think he was very relieved when John Lasseter told him to take the traditional fairy tale approach with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:33 pm 
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my problem with Pascal is that a chameleon is such a random animal for her to have as a pet. A bird would have made more sense as it could have flown to her through the window. But I guess a bird isnt as cool as a lizard for the boy audience...

The only way Pascal makes sense is if he came stowed away in a potted plant that Gothel gave to Rapunzel as "gift" to her. That actually happens a lot in real life(maybe not chameleons but you can get surprise stowaway critters like bugs and blind snakes when you bring home a plant from a nursery.)

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In Tangled, Rapunzel is depicted as way too perfect for my taste. She never messes up and even when she goes out into the real world (where she should be a total fish out of water) she adjusts far too well to be believable. Like how well she gets along with the thugs and how she suddenly knows how to swim. I know Disney isn't known for realism, but all the other heroines have a plausibility about them which Rapunzel imo does not possess.


I agree, I dont think she's very interesting and she's on the lower tier of my favorite princess list. Her design is ok but she comes of a little too Barbie like to me, as does the whole film. I would have loved to have seen what Glen Keane's darker golden age inspired film would have been like.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Though I'm one of the ones who was pretty happy with how Tangled turned out, I would have loved to see that darker version of Rapunzel, and probably would have ultimately preferred it. Definitely would have liked to see Keane direct a feature, as well as seeing this much-talked-about "painterly style" actually materialize.

Another obvious one that hasn't been mentioned is Kingdom of the Sun/Emperor's New Groove (another one where I love the resulting film, but also would have loved to see the original). In reference to the title of this thread, though, with all of these, I feel like these films didn't become completely different films necessarily because of a director change, but rather, the director change happened when someone higher up decided the film needed to be different. Which may bring about a similar result, but isn't exactly the same thing. Ultimately, most of these films aren't the "director's vision" as much as Disney wants us to believe. Obviously, a lot of the directors have been able to leave their mark on their films in one way or another, and some directors have had more freedom to exert their own influences than others, but I'm sure none of us here buy the shtick that says WDAS and Pixar are "director-driven" studios, especially for the younger and less experienced directors.

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how life is scary outstide 'cause rhinos.

:lol: rotfl

One of my biggest problems in the movie have always been the song lyrics. That part in particular is a head-scratcher.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Glen Keane's Rapuznel sounds like it would have been fabulous. It makes me sad we didn't get to see it. Tangled is ok but it had so much more potential. Rapunzel is cute but as others have said comes off as too perfect. Look at the difference between her and Jasmine. When Jasmine leaves the palace homegirl almost gets her hand chopped off. Rapunzel has a concert with the thugs. If Aladdin came out today Jasmine would probably get a show stopping number singing about being generous or something in the middle of the market place and everyone would join along. One of the best moments in the film is Rapunzel's conflicting thoughts when she first leaves the tower.

I don't really like Flynn and I really wish we saw Bastion. He seems like he would have been such an interesting character. As mentioned Kristoff was pretty obviously inspired by him but we didn't see much of him. I kind of would like to learn more about Kristoff in Frozen 2 but I doubt we will.

I enjoy Gothel as the villain but I would have liked her to be more complex. She could have been one of the best and most interesting antagonists. But she just ends up as a decent villain. She is basically Yzma from Kingdom of the Sun. Speaking of that movie I wish that one was made as well. If only for the fact that Yzma probably would be better remembered haha. I really only like Yzma and Kronk in TENG. Kuzco annoys me and Pacha is boring, although his family is fun. I still feel cheated that Eartha Kitt didn't get to sing in TENG. I love "Snuff Out the Light." I listen to it all the time.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:00 pm 
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Disney's Divinity wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
Interestingly enough, even in Tangled, Rapunzel wasn't supposed to have a sidekick. Pascal was shoed in near the end of development, because someone (I forgot who) felt that she needed to have a sidekick otherwise everyone would think she was crazy for talking to herself.

That was the same reason for Quasi getting sidekicks. How dare a character come across a little crazy when that's the whole point! :lol:


I think Disney feels that audiences can suspend disbelief when characters sing to themselves, but the same doesn't apply to them talking to themselves.

blackcauldron85 wrote:
JeanGreyForever, thank you x 100!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

I very much like Pascal, and I like that Rapunzel has a friend...she's a sweet girl, she deserves one person...erhm, creature... to understand her. (I feel the same about Quasi...at least he had the birds?? Some self-satisfaction at helping them?) I wonder if time was a factor in Tangled not exploring Flynn's background more than brief mentions by Flynn about it...or were the directors thinking that Rapunzel is a little more of the lead, so focus less on him??

Very beautiful artwork (did you post pics from "The Art of Tangled"? I bought that a year ago, and read it & flipped through it, but didn't realize that some of those were from that previous version.

I wonder...should Flynn had had an animal sidekick (not counting Maximus, since that wasn't his horse)...?


Yeah, most of those pictures came from "The Art of Tangled" which I found online. Quite a bit of it features concept art from both Rapunzel Unbraided as well as Glen Keane's Rapunzel.

I think giving Flynn an animal sidekick would automatically make him less self-centered, which would slightly hamper his character progression (although I don't find his relationship with Rapunzel to be very realistic anyway).

unprincess wrote:
JeanGreyForever wrote:
In Tangled, Rapunzel is depicted as way too perfect for my taste. She never messes up and even when she goes out into the real world (where she should be a total fish out of water) she adjusts far too well to be believable. Like how well she gets along with the thugs and how she suddenly knows how to swim. I know Disney isn't known for realism, but all the other heroines have a plausibility about them which Rapunzel imo does not possess.


I agree, I dont think she's very interesting and she's on the lower tier of my favorite princess list. Her design is ok but she comes of a little too Barbie like to me, as does the whole film. I would have loved to have seen what Glen Keane's darker golden age inspired film would have been like.


Rapunzel's my least favorite princess. I'm more partial towards the original princesses, so the newer ones like Tiana and Merida rank near the bottom, but I definitely prefer them over Rapunzel.

Jay wrote:
Glen Keane's Rapuznel sounds like it would have been fabulous. It makes me sad we didn't get to see it. Tangled is ok but it had so much more potential. Rapunzel is cute but as others have said comes off as too perfect. Look at the difference between her and Jasmine. When Jasmine leaves the palace homegirl almost gets her hand chopped off. Rapunzel has a concert with the thugs. If Aladdin came out today Jasmine would probably get a show stopping number singing about being generous or something in the middle of the market place and everyone would join along. One of the best moments in the film is Rapunzel's conflicting thoughts when she first leaves the tower.

I don't really like Flynn and I really wish we saw Bastion. He seems like he would have been such an interesting character. As mentioned Kristoff was pretty obviously inspired by him but we didn't see much of him. I kind of would like to learn more about Kristoff in Frozen 2 but I doubt we will.

I enjoy Gothel as the villain but I would have liked her to be more complex. She could have been one of the best and most interesting antagonists. But she just ends up as a decent villain. She is basically Yzma from Kingdom of the Sun. Speaking of that movie I wish that one was made as well. If only for the fact that Yzma probably would be better remembered haha. I really only like Yzma and Kronk in TENG. Kuzco annoys me and Pacha is boring, although his family is fun. I still feel cheated that Eartha Kitt didn't get to sing in TENG. I love "Snuff Out the Light." I listen to it all the time.


The funny thing is that I can really see that moment you pictured with Jasmine singing in the marketplace, and suddenly everyone jumps into song with her. Thank God the Broadway musical doesn't have anything like that.

Frozen 2 will likely put all emphasis on Elsa now that she is the breakout star. Of course Anna and Olaf will have a substantial amount of time as well, but Kristoff will be left on the back burner to function only as Anna's love interest.

I would have loved Kingdom of the Sun as well. TENG is super funny, but Kuzco can be a bit too full of himself at times which makes it difficult to sympathize with. I'm glad to know though that I'm not the only one who found Pacha boring. His scenes never really got my attention. Yzma's Snuff Out the Light is one of my favorite villain songs, and if Kingdom of the Sun had been made, I'm sure Yzma would be a highly popular Disney villainess alongside the likes of Maleficent, Ursula, Cruella, the Queen, etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:52 pm 
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First of all I want to praise you for an excellent thread, blackcauldron85. It's not unusual that animated films change directors, so therefore praise to you to start your own discussion about it.

"The Jungle Book" was one of the first Disney films which I really fell in love with and became obsessed with. While it's an enjoyable, fun and charming film, it's storywise a little weak and less elaborate. While Walt personally wanted this project to be special and have heart, there's nothing wrong to have heart and an elaborate story.

"The Emperor's New Groove" is fun, enjoyable and certainly something unique in Disney animation. It's the closest Disney have made a Warner Bros cartoon and a pure comedy. However, I was looking forward to "Kingdom of the Sun" and it was a wasted opportunity to make an Incan epic. Also the soundtrack was quite wasted, since unfortunately the score had no Andean music.

As for "Tangled", I've wondered how Keane's version of it would've been. Perhaps better than the final version. Gothel was a quite generic villain and simply bland. Menken's music was lackluster, though "I See The Light" was good. I liked Pascal and found him to be quite endearing. Flynn was sexy (while being a thief like Aladdin, Flynn is pretty much his opposite, since Aladdin has morals and values and Flynn starts out as a semi-jerk). I liked Rapunzel's design and that of her tower. I liked some story points, like the flower, her hair having healing powers and turning brown as cut. While "Tangled" is lighthearted, I feel that it doesn't get enough credit for it's darkness, since I personally consider it to be dark at times. But could've it been better in Keane's hands. And why not have a German setting instead of an undescriptional European setting?

And for "Beauty and the Beast"; Due to that it's heralded as a perfect classic from the majority and the initial draft was going to be more tedious. But who knows? Perhaps the different route would've benefited the picture.

And let's not forget our friend "Brave". Though it's not Pixar's first directorial change, it's certainly the most publical one. Who wonders how "Brave" would've been if Brenda had been the director all along. Probably better, I suppose.


Last edited by DisneyFan09 on Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:58 pm 
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DisneyFan09 wrote:
"The Emperor's New Groove" is fun, enjoyable and certainly something unique in Disney animation. It's the closest Disney have made a Warner Bros cartoon and a pure comedy. However, I was looking forward to "Kingdom of the Sun" and it was a wasted opportunity to make an Incan epic. Also the soundtrack was quite wasted, since unfortunately the score had no Andean music.

I agree with this. :up: TENG is unique and enjoyable, but at the same time Yzma/Kuzko are the only memorable parts of the film.

About Yzma though, I wonder if she'd have ended up memorable in Kingdom of the Sun or not if the movie had done as badly as Atlantis and TP. Don't get me wrong, Eartha Kitt would've been fantastic either way, but part of the reason Yzma works so well is that she's a riff on all of Disney's previous villainesses, which I'm not sure would've been the case in KotS.

JeanGrey Forever wrote:
Rapunzel's my least favorite princess. I'm more partial towards the original princesses, so the newer ones like Tiana and Merida rank near the bottom, but I definitely prefer them over Rapunzel.
Interesting. I like Rapunzel myself, but this opinion sometimes feels so rare on this forum that I enjoy seeing it. :P

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